Antares is discontinuing all Auto-Tune for Guitar products.

Started by cags12, August 01, 2017, 05:03:32 AM

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cags12

SAD NEWS!

As of August 31st 2017, Antares will be discontinuing all Auto-Tune for Guitar products, including the ATG-1 Floor Processor, ATG Custom Luthier Installation Kit, and Software Feature Packs.

Important: ATG users will be able to update their Software Feature Packs/Pedal Core Pack until October 31st 2017.  After this date, it will no longer be possible to update any ATG device.

It is necessary to download and install the ATG Utility Applications in order to perform a software update.  The ATG Settings Manager will still continue to work after October 31st, however the ATG Software Manager will no longer be able to connect to the ATG website.

Antares will continue to support the ATG products until August 31st 2018.  For Auto-Tune for Guitar support, please file a ticket here and select "Auto-Tune for Guitar Support" from the "Type" menu.

The ATG forum will still be active until October 31st 2017 when posting and replying to posts will be turned off.   The forum will be available for reference until August 31st 2018.



http://autotuneforguitar.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/1111-antares-is-discontinuing-all-auto-tune-for-guitar-products/

cags12

I was about to buy another Luthier kit. Would you say it is worth doing despite the stop of developing the product?

vtgearhead

I had a feeling this was coming, but take no joy in having been correct :-(.

Pete1959

#3


This is what I thought when purchasing the ATG-1 and yes, I can say it is sad to see.
I have only had the ATG-1 for a week now and using it with my AX8, my limited experience is very positive.
I was using it much the same as my previous pedals (GP-10, GR-55) and was hoping for a major announcement by Roland regarding a possible GK3 capable product in May/June that never came.

So far, I had to make some adjustments regarding the ATG-1 going into the AX8 but got all my guitar models and alternate tunings back and then some. Still a work in progress but I find this to be better than my old GP-10.

In another thread, somebody asked if I had any issues with the GK3 magnetic pickups. So far using Strat, LesPaul, Acoustic models and alternate tunings in various amp models (Fender, Marshall, Freidman, JC120) I have not noticed anything but I did bring down the GK3 output volumes.

Still a work in progress as I don't seem to have standard magnetic pickup output but believe that is more of a setting issue than anything else. The ATG-1 into AX8 was tested with 2 of my Strats: a GC-1 I bought 3 years ago to go with my GR-55 at the time as well as a Squire which has the internal GK3 kit I ordered from Anderton's in the UK some time ago.

This ATG-1 in its present form will likely serve me well for years to come. Especially in seeing that Roland has no interest in going further than the GP-10 and GR-55 for floor processors that can reliably model guitars and alternate tunings

Majiken

Quote from: cags12 on August 01, 2017, 05:07:32 AM
I was about to buy another Luthier kit. Would you say it is worth doing despite the stop of developing the product?

If you like the product as is, I would say yes. Thinking about it myself, just as I have finally been able to get my guitar and software to communicate properly (took out everything that was connected by USB). Just came off of 3 hours of preset tweaking to read this  :'(... It really could have been taken further, but the lack of true development including the ungodly software indicates to me that they started off with insufficient resources and (not in small part due to lousy marketing) couldn't get the niche market to come to the party in sufficient numbers.

Steve & you other electronics gurus, how hackable do you perceive the system to be?

Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

vtgearhead

Quote from: Majiken on August 01, 2017, 07:27:47 AM
Steve & you other electronics gurus, how hackable do you perceive the system to be?

Unless they release schematics and DSP source code, hackability == 0.  Even with DSP source useful hacks would require a rather advanced skill set.  Certainly well over my head.

But, more to the point: It's a good bet their flagship DAW software has numerous trade secrets in common with the ATG-1, so safe money says they'll release this information on or about the first of never. 

admin

#6
The Antares internal Luthier kit has a mono output and ATG-1 has a stereo output. Both come standard with all model packs which are optional upgrades on the Peavey AT- 200

there is a optional pedal steel software update exclusive to the ATG-1

The auto tune for guitar was a pet project of Dr Andy (the owner founder of Antares) but after he retired last year ,supporting continued development becomes a drain on their resources. The product being discontinued is strictly a business decision

cags12

They could release the source code of the supporting features and not the actual auto-tune algorithm that can be released as a dynamic library or something that cannot used or take advantage of.

I know it is a lot to ask but it is a real shame that the product will simply die. All of the effort developing it to simply let it die? better leave it live supported by the community.

admin

It's a case of lack of sales

if it were truly profitable there would be  ongoing development for a mark II version, but as it is I think they're sitting on slow moving inventory.

only the select group here at VGuitarForums understands the power of these systems (the .001% ) 

But most guitar players never heard of it or understand it , seems only folks here at VGuitarForums  acknowledge its existence

you never really hear about Antares Auto tune for Guitar systems on The Gear  Page or anywhere else

calling the project "AutoTune for Guitar" is basically the kiss of death for  professional musicians.

Despite Dweezil and Steve Vai using it in the studio   - and Kirk Hammet using it live ( he has ATG internals in his Variax JTV-59 ( it will remain a secret weapon for a select few )






Antares Auto-Tune for Guitar Discussion
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=144.0

Majiken

I blame their marketing big-time, at least here in Europe they were invisible.  They had a clear market to intrude on, the JTV crowd, they had the Antares name backing them up, and they did nothing. I read all the gear rags, no advertising, no reviews, no wonder no business...... Self-inflicted, but still sad  :-[
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Majiken

I would still be really happy to see a halfway usable editor/librarian software!
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

cags12

I myself discovered ATG by chance after looking at Variax transplants information. Definitely the lack of marketing was one of the main factors. I do not consider myself a big Vguitar enthusiast ( I do not own any Roland product yet), but what was offered by ATG appealed to me mainly for the form factor. i really wanted the Variax technology as a kit. Antares had it with even better tuning technology.

If Line6 has been able to survive with their Variaxes on a closed system (not GK compatible or kit available), for sure the marketing part and slow development of ATG makes me think was the main factor. The Mark II version should have come earlier after listening at all potential users. i.e. adding GK auto-tuned output.

cags12

Quote from: Majiken on August 01, 2017, 08:43:51 AM
I blame their marketing big-time, at least here in Europe they were invisible.  They had a clear market to intrude on, the JTV crowd, they had the Antares name backing them up, and they did nothing. I read all the gear rags, no advertising, no reviews, no wonder no business...... Self-inflicted, but still sad  :-[

You beat me to it. Totally agree.

admin

#13
Quote from:  sec6
Looks like Spicetone is the last man standing.  Are they next?  Seems like Roland's pullout is bringing down everybody else with them.

the Antares ATG product being discontinued is just a result of the main ATG developer Dr Andy Hildenbrand retiring in late 2016.

Also Antares is now focused to be a software provider ,  not a hardware manufacturer.

being a hardware manufacturer,  there are a lot more $$$ overhead expenses and compliance fees (FCC/UL/CE), state taxes on unsold inventory, Distributor fees, etc  which all contribute to lowering the profits.

Its sad because these facts of life present hurdles for excellent niche products. But I understand that the best seller in any product category , is seldom the best  example technology in this compromised world

chrish

Quote from:  sec6
Looks like Spicetone is the last man standing.  Are they next?  Seems like Roland's pullout is bringing down everybody else with them.
I would not have heard about spicetone or the ATG-1 system if I hadn't been a dedicated reader of this forum.

Unless a company gets a master like Pat Metheny to use its products, Market exposure is difficult.

Since it does appear that 13 pin hex is fading out, I've been looking towards the modular synth Market to fill my needs since I'm more into the synthesizer end of it than I am  guitar and amp modeling.

But since hex processing requires 6 of everything, it looks to be pricey.

For example analogue Solutions makes a pitch to cv converter for $225. Multiply that times 6 and you start to see the bargain that we've been enjoying with companies producing hex products.




admin

#15
Dont forget the $300 Boss GP-10 provides capability for 6 individual strings to real time transfer over 6  audio channels over low latency 24 bit USB Audio for separate string real time processing on your computer using any app you prefer

we talk about this process in the u-he zebra and others in the soft synth threads here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=51.0

vtgearhead

Quote from: cags12 on August 01, 2017, 08:09:23 AM
They could release the source code of the supporting features and not the actual auto-tune algorithm that can be released as a dynamic library or something that cannot used or take advantage of.

Anything could happen, but the code review effort and IP legal expenses would be good money after bad from their point of view.  Remember, the easiest and safest answer for a corporate attorney is always some variant of "no" or "we don't recommend..". 



BMapson

I liked this technology, but I really never had a need for it.  It's a shame they're going to abandon it completely. 


aliensporebomb

#18
And I saw a price on the ATG-1 that was so cheap it was stupid - I could have bought two of them.  Too bad.

I think part of it is marketing.  "Auto tune for guitar" - sadly guitarists often are driven by peer pressure and conservatism. 

Look at the negative reaction to Gibsons mechanized tuners on their guitars.  No guitarist wants to be pigeonholed by players around them as the kind who can't even tune his own guitar and needs a device to do it for them.

If they'd called the ATG-1 the "Automatic Guitar Transformer" or the like that can "turn your guitar into a bass, drop d, unconventional tunings at the touch of a button" etc it would have been a more desirable/hotter product. 

It is getting to be a bit scary to be a 13-pin proponent.   But I would literally need to rejigger my whole rig to go to an equivalent non-hex.  Forget it! 

Meanwhile, Gibson literally is trying to sell new Gibson Les Pauls with built in fuzz distortion boxes built in!

https://www.strat-talk.com/threads/why-is-gibson-doing-this.445288/
https://www.gearnews.com/gibson-custom-burstdriver-overdrive-loaded-les-paul/
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

Quote from: aliensporebomb on August 01, 2017, 02:24:27 PM


I think part of it is marketing.  "Auto tune for guitar" - sadly guitarists often are driven by peer pressure and conservatism. 

Look at the negative reaction to Gibsons mechanized tuners on their guitars.  No guitarist wants to be pigeonholed by players around them as the kind who can't even tune his own guitar and needs a device to do it for them.

If they'd called the ATG-1 the "Automatic Guitar Transformer" or the like that can "turn your guitar into a bass, drop d, unconventional tunings at the touch of a button" etc it would have been a more desirable/hotter product. 





100% agree!

The Gibson Robot "self tuning guitar" marketing campaign really spoiled potential Antares AutoTune for Guitar sales , as most professionals will shun  the need for "yet another autotuned guitar"  - most find it insulting. Also I found the Antares demonstration guitar to be miserably out of tune, and then at the press of a button the ATG DSP system would apply its magic, and now the guitar was  "playable"  - only those with lots of patience would stick around and realize that Antares provided far more features than autotuning : Guitar Modeling, MIDI controllable Pitch bending, transposing up down 12 steps , Alt tunings , 12 string emulations, auto string instrument temperament re-calibration, and other productive features ( 6 string / 12 string/ individual string panning   

And some professionals who used the ATG system would complain of odd clipping artifacts in the audio if you dig in too hard during a solo - careful setting the input sensitivity solves that, but it astonishing how few folks understand the mayhem that occurs in DSP systems when you clip the input of an A/D converter  with too hot a signal

and who wants to route their #1 guitar for the typical Antares Luthier kit install

cags12

In terms of the kit, maybe it would have been more appealing if the kit was similar to the Graphtech and/or Roland with piggy backing size reduced boards, it would have been possible to install the kit to any guitar with descent sized electronics cavity.

I know Alternate tunings require a Hex input, but what about guitar modelling only? Cannot this be done on a mono flat pickup or similar?

Perhaps the technology is getting powerful enough leading towards non polyphonic input (the main issue with more users embracing this tech) but processing from a mono source. i.e. Jam origin, SY300, Melodyne, and others.


cags12

The other interesting thing is that the patent of the Antares autotune method expires I believe next year. Other vendors (Roland, Line 6) could start using Antares algorithm with more mature products and warble free.

Rhcole

Boss created the domino effect by ceasing 13 pin development OVER THREE YEARS AGO. Spicetone with 100 or so units sold is beyond being a niche player, they don't even register.
As others have said, I take no joy in this- BUT, the future of non-hex DOES look bright.

Elantric

#23
Quote from: Rhcole on August 01, 2017, 05:44:25 PM
Boss created the domino effect by ceasing 13 pin development OVER THREE YEARS AGO. Spicetone with 100 or so units sold is beyond being a niche player, they don't even register.
As others have said, I take no joy in this- BUT, the future of non-hex DOES look bright.

Of course the Elephant in the room is that other divided pickup production guitar with DSP designed in Calabasas , California
http://line6.com/variax-modeling-guitars/variax-standard/
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=137.0

and the phantom Strandberg V-Guitar


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19962.msg154663;topicseen#msg154663

ALOfYRSnfWhres

means this is a sad end been optimistic about the software feature packs :(