PRIMOVA MIDX-20 Dual Roland USB MIDI Converter / Ctrl Interface

Started by CodeSmart, March 05, 2016, 05:20:19 PM

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admin

Quote from: CodeSmart on April 08, 2017, 12:20:57 PM
The Sneaky Amps (abt. 27) discovered by Beanow has now been incorporated in the upcoming firmware release of the MIDX-20 Katana Bridge.
CC#80 walks you first through the first 5 standard amps (value 0-4) and then the Sneaky Amps follows (value 5-27) giving you another 22 amps with the Katana. Great work guys discovering this ;D

Fast Work Robert!

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/23893345/

CodeSmart

MIDX-20 NEW V1.4 Firmware with BOSS Katana MIDI Bridge (+Sneaky Amps).
http://www.primovasound.com/midx_20.html
(Need PC Assistant V1.1 from web page to flash the upgrade, Previous Assistant V1.0 will not flash properly)

MIDX-20 Katana MIDI Bridge document updated:
http://www.primovasound.com/pdf/MIDX_20_Katana.pdf


But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

KuRi


CodeSmart

Quote from: KuRi on April 09, 2017, 08:14:14 AM
Link to download is not working yet :D
Oops. Download fixed. Note that MIDI translation and CC translations will not be available until V2.0.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Beanow

Very nice! Clean Twin is listed as Crunch though.

More documentation will definitely be coming from my end. As people have found with the floorboard software, Sneaky Effects for example are definitely in there. Like the Tera Echo, with the CC mappings it would be pretty interesting to have the HOLD feature and such.

vtgearhead

The next challenge is how to do bulk patch change from an external controller with minimal sonic impact. Unless I"m missing something basic, blasting in the entire functional range is going to be far too slow for live performance.

CodeSmart

Quote from: Beanow on April 09, 2017, 09:39:59 AM
Very nice! Clean Twin is listed as Crunch though.

More documentation will definitely be coming from my end. As people have found with the floorboard software, Sneaky Effects for example are definitely in there. Like the Tera Echo, with the CC mappings it would be pretty interesting to have the HOLD feature and such.
Agree :) Just update your doc with the things you find/want. I'll fix the PDF error later..
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

KuRi

Quote from: CodeSmart on April 09, 2017, 09:22:49 AM
Oops. Download fixed. Note that MIDI translation and CC translations will not be available until V2.0.

Oh, I thought they were included in this version. Waiting eagerly for the next one.

Thanks for the great work!

substation7

I'm using my shiny new MIDX-20 with a Boss GT-001.  It works great for sending patch change and CC from 5pin to the unit.  The problem I'm having is getting MIDI clock to be recognized by the GT-001.  Is anyone else using this with a GT-001 and has MIDI sync working? 


I'm using a Banana Split MIDI thru box on my pedal board which has a beat indicator showing when MIDI clock is active. 
( https://www.tindie.com/products/hotchk155/banana-split-6-way-midi-splitterthru-box/ )
All of my other pedals are responding to MIDI clock with no issues.  However, I cannot get the GT-001 to respond to sync.  In the SYSTEM > MIDI section of the GT-001 I have  SYNC set to AUTO.  Unfortunately, there you can only select INTERNAL and AUTOm, there is no "EXTERNAL" setting, although according to the manual; "Operations are synchronized to the MIDI Clock received via MIDI. However, operations are automatically synchronized to the GT-001's internal Clock if the GT-001 is unable to receive the external Clock."

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions that might help me get MIDI sync working.  The GT-001 is on my pedalboard specifically for a number of its effects (slicer, delays, filter, etc) that I need to sync with incoming MIDI clock.

thanks in advance

~Clement
I bought a new guitar! And then she asks "Are you gonna sell the old one?"

CodeSmart

Quote from: substation7 on April 12, 2017, 01:27:02 PM
The problem I'm having is getting MIDI clock to be recognized by the GT-001.
To my knowledge there's nothing in MIDX firmware should preventing these real-time messages passing through. However I have a in-built feature of a "clock master" preventing more than one sender to reach the target if there's more than one sender sending these messages. The first sending, after connect "wins", but looses it if timeout occur and another source is knocking at the door. I need to say this has been coded without 100% testing. But if there's only one sender it should work. One way to test this would be to connect a USB-to-MIDI cable to MIDX USB instead of the GT-1 and have some equipment looking at what's coming out. Unfortunately the Bome MIDI PC tool (which I often use) filters  these messages from showing on screen.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

substation7

Thanks Robert, your suggestion was great.  So I did a bit more troubleshooting...

Plugging the GT-001 directly into the computer and then using Cakewalk's Sonar to send out MIDI clock directly to it works perfectly.  Whatever parameters in the GT-001 I set to a BPM value follow the tempo in Sonar with no problems.

So... I connected a Roland UM-ONE to the MIDEX-20, using the same USB connector that I had the GT-001 connected to. Ran the output into a computer and used MIDIOX to monitor the data stream coming out from the MIDEX-20.

Using the same MIDI clock source (Cakewalk Sonar) I had used before, I was able to see the clock with the correct tempo coming out of the UM-ONE.  I then connected the output of the UM-ONE to the MIDI split box that feeds my pedalboard and all of my pedals responded correctly to the MIDI clock signal coming from Sonar.

Sonar > Computer MIDI interface out > MIDEX-20 > UM-ONE > MIDI Splitter > Pedals

The good news is that MIDI clock is flowing through the MIDEX-20 with no issues.  The bad news is that the GT-001 only responds to MIDI clock when directly connected to a computer.  :(  This is, I'm sure, due to its non-class-compliant issues. 

Has anyone else used the MIDEX-20 with a BOSS/Roland non-class-compliant device like the GT-001 or GP-10 and been able to pass MIDI clock to it? 

These little BOSS units have a wealth of modulation and delay effects that can be synced to incoming BPM, it's a shame they make them nearly impossible to use without connecting a computer.

~Clement
I bought a new guitar! And then she asks "Are you gonna sell the old one?"

vtgearhead

Quote from: substation7 on April 13, 2017, 10:40:45 PM
The good news is that MIDI clock is flowing through the MIDEX-20 with no issues.  The bad news is that the GT-001 only responds to MIDI clock when directly connected to a computer.  :(  This is, I'm sure, due to its non-class-compliant issues. 

Is it possible that the GT-001 needs to be placed in a special mode before it will respond to MIDI clock?  For example, the Katana amplifier must be placed in "edit" mode before it will obey certain commands. 

substation7

QuoteIs it possible that the GT-001 needs to be placed in a special mode before it will respond to MIDI clock?

When connected to a computer the GT-001 responds to MIDI clock as long as patch parameters are assigned to BPM -no special mode needed. 
I bought a new guitar! And then she asks "Are you gonna sell the old one?"

vtgearhead

Right, but I'm wondering if the Roland driver itself is setting anything up at connect time. 

substation7

Quote from: snhirsch on April 14, 2017, 03:11:04 PM
Right, but I'm wondering if the Roland driver itself is setting anything up at connect time.

Steve, good call!  Let me see if I can find a decent free USB sniffer and see what the Roland driver is doing.  Is there a tool you can recommend?

~Clement
I bought a new guitar! And then she asks "Are you gonna sell the old one?"

vtgearhead

Based on our recent experiences with the Katana, Wireshark is probably not going to help.  Try 'USBLyzer'.  A bit difficult to setup, but it hooks in at a very low level and will show you exactly what's on the wire.  It's a commercial program but comes with a 33-day free trial.

CodeSmart

I expect a new batch of MIDX-20 ready end of May->June'ish...
Stuff's ordered. V2.0 Firmware in progress.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

substation7

Quote from: snhirsch on April 15, 2017, 05:51:15 AM
Based on our recent experiences with the Katana, Wireshark is probably not going to help.  Try 'USBLyzer'.  A bit difficult to setup, but it hooks in at a very low level and will show you exactly what's on the wire.  It's a commercial program but comes with a 33-day free trial.

I grabbed USBlyzer and set it up to log hot-swapped devices.  I started logging with USBlyzer, then plugged in the GT-001.  It captured the following three strings of hex, along with some other USB transactions then sat idle.

12 01 00 02 FF 00 FF 40 82 05 E5 01 10 01 01 02 00 01

09 02 BC 00 04 01 00 C0 00 09 04 00 00 00 FF FF 00 00 09 04 01 00 00 FF 02 02 00 06 24 F1 01 00

09 02 BC 00 04 01 00 C0 00 09 04 00 00 00 FF FF 00 00 09 04 01 00 00 FF 02 02 00 06 24 F1 01 00


I then used MIDIOX to send MIDI clock which passed perfectly and display changed from d=120 to d=MIDI on the GT-001.  This was also recorded with USBlyzer by a steady stream of:

0F F8 00 00

I've been going through the MIDI implementation chart trying to sort out the first three strings, and I don't see anything that would put it in a special mode.  As for the other info that was captured in the log, I fear I may be out of my depth here.  If anyone with more knowledge of USB transactions would be willing to have a look-see I would be forever grateful.

I've attached a .csv file of the entire session as exported from USBlyzer.

The Boss GT-001 MIDI implementation chart can be found here.
https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/gt-001/owners_manuals/e3f534dc-a0a3-48b8-be29-26db400eabfd/

thanks in advance,
~Clement
I bought a new guitar! And then she asks "Are you gonna sell the old one?"

gumtown

I know the GT midi specification inside out, but that data collection seems meaningless to me, it has not collected any midi data, only high level USB connection handshake data.

An easier way would be
midi clock sender software > computer USB > MIDX-20 USB1 > MIDX-20 USB2 > USB-Midi Device adapter 1 midi out > USB-Midi Device adapter 2 midi in > USB-Midi Device adapter 2 USB > computer USB > midi monitoring software.

If you send midi clock, the monitoring software should see it.

Does your GT-001 have the latest firmware installed?
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

CodeSmart

I have a old GT-10, just maybe I have time next week to take look at this.
What free Windows software would be best suited to generate the MIDI data?
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

gumtown

I have midi yoke installed as 8 inter-connector midi ports, which is part of midiOx, but I don't use midiOx.
I have always preferred Bome's SendSX for midi send/receive.
For sysx messages, I just copy/paste them into the midi send/out window, or just direct type in P.C. and simple midi data.
Once data is in the Midi out window (F8 for clock), you can keep hitting F4 button to repeat the midi send.
https://www.bome.com/products/sendsx

some WIKI info
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI_beat_clock

free midi clock generator
https://www.voiceliveeditor.com/index.php/vle-utilities/vle-midi-clock-generator
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

vtgearhead

I wish I could make sense of the MidiYoke documentation.  If it's capable of intercepting data both to/from an application it would be quite handy.  Their nomenclature refers to inputs as outputs and vice-versa, which really adds to the fun.  Was unable to find a single worked-through example of how one uses it and could never get it to do anything here besides acting as a bit-bucket.

CodeSmart

FWIW, the new MIDX V2.0 firmware will have some unique Channel and CC mapping possibilities.
I'm not sure it can be found elsewhere, and I don't know why I did it, but it will be there. Maybe all this work is for nothing.

- Virtual outside channels, with optional duplicated channel MIDI data (MIDI stream x 2).
- CC translations. Translate any existing channel CC data stream into another channel or CC number (or duplicate) and optionally modify the value:
  * Unmodified
  * Convert a linear pedal to logarithmic.
  * Convert a log pedal to linear.
  * Reverse the pedal (toe-heel reverse)
  * Convert any footswitch CC momentary to CC toggle.

I understand it's beyond everything one guy in a million need...but why not do it?
And it will work with any existing MIDI stream passing through the unit!


But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

admin

QuoteCC translations. Translate any existing channel CC data stream into another channel or CC number (or duplicate) and optionally modify the value:
  * Unmodified
  * Convert a linear pedal to logarithmic.
  * Convert a log pedal to linear.
  * Reverse the pedal (toe-heel reverse)
  * Convert any footswitch CC momentary to CC toggle.

i know This is huge deal and a problem solver for many  - THANK YOU!!

whippinpost91850