FOMOfx - Virtual Jeff

Started by mbenigni, January 07, 2016, 09:46:03 AM

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vanceg

It's not really tough to get this working with the VG-99 at all. All you need is some way to translate the incoming MIDI messages to CC.  It would be a LOT easier if the Virtual Jeff just sent one MIDI CC message with 0 at the whammy "full down" position, 64 a the "rest" position and 127 at the "full up" position.

As far as that little volume jump I mentioned goes - This sounds precisely the same with the Virtual Jeff controlling the whammy feature as it does when I use the D-beam to control it. 

Note that you can also map the Virtual Jeff to the Whammy Pedal emulation in the VG-99... but the monophonic pitch shifting on the Whammy Pedal (real or emulated) doesn't sound nearly as good as the individual string pitch shifting used in the VG-99's whammy feature.  But it's got a characteristic tone that can be fun. 

vanceg

Quote from: mooncaine on June 07, 2017, 01:36:09 PM
So, are those 3 different MIDI CC# messages being sent? Which ones? (Please.)

I've got one waiting for me at home, arrived today. Can't wait to hook it up to VG-99. I also ordered a BOSS power supply and a MIDI cable, so... I think I should have all I need.

I'd have to go back and look. I was converting them to different CC numbers and  then filtering out the Program Change numbers which mess with the VG-99.

Elantric


mooncaine

Quote from: vanceg on June 08, 2017, 08:46:45 AM
I'd have to go back and look. I was converting them to different CC numbers and  then filtering out the Program Change numbers which mess with the VG-99.
Vance, what are you using to do the filtering? It's going to be a few days before I can get a MIDI Solutions Events Processor Plus, it seems.

All: do you know of a way to do this on a Mac, via software?


mooncaine

#105
CRACKED!

I solved the setup riddles, and with my VJ plugged into a MIDI Solutions Events Processor Plus, then into a VG-99's MIDI IN, I got electronic whammy bar heaven. Down and up, no probs. It'll even let me decide whether I want it to emulate a Floyd, Strat, Bigsby or just bend everything in tune... on both the down and up directions. That is, I can set it to bend up, but remain in tune, yet go out of tune when I bend down.

Just in time to get my tired butt to bed.

alexmcginness

Good that its cracked. Man this thing is expensive and when you add in the whammy pedal or even the midi solutions box ...Yikes. Maybe on my next lottery win.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

vanceg

I just plugged the MIDI out of the Virtual Jeff into the VG-99.  I then plugged my VG-99 into my computer via USB.  I used the VG-99 as a MIDI interface to get MIDI into my computer.  Once the MIDI was in the computer I just used a little Max/MSP patch I wrote to filter the MIDI messages. I then sent those filtered MIDI messages to the VG-99. Basically I was using the computer as a Events Processor.




Quote from: mooncaine on June 08, 2017, 04:03:02 PM
Vance, what are you using to do the filtering? It's going to be a few days before I can get a MIDI Solutions Events Processor Plus, it seems.

All: do you know of a way to do this on a Mac, via software?

mooncaine

Cool, Vance. If you've already mapped out the Program Changes and/or CCs that the VJ sends, I'd be grateful for a list. Or, if it's easier, would you share your MAX/Msp patch? I think I can look it over in Max for Live, if not a text editor, and see the Program Change messages you're converting.

I've only set up Mode B so far, on the VJ, with the DIP switches in 1001. (1 is up, 0 is down).
I saw and altered the MIDI output by using the Events Processor Plus (EPP). Man, I should have bought a couple of those years ago! Brilliant box.

The VJ is set up to send Program Change (PC) messages to a Whammy Pedal. It sends them constantly, hammering your MIDI devices with hundreds of PC messages. The VG-99 dutifully changes patches in response, so that's the first thing I had to change.

I set the EPP to block the constant flow of PC 46 messages entirely.
It sends two other PC messages: one for when bar is down, another when bar is up. I can't recall the exact PC #s right now but I think they might be 43 and 49. I convert those in the EPP to CC 12 and 13. I then use a VG-99 patch's Control Assigns to do this:
1. Turn on Ribbon T-Arm SW when CC 12 >= 2, and turn off D-Beam T-Arm SW. (I tried it as >=1 and heard no difference, btw).
2. Turn on D-Beam SW when CC 13 >= 2, and turn off Ribbon T-Arm SW.
That way, the default MIDI CC 11 can continue to be the controller that reports the arm's actual position, as it's moving.

The side effect, as Vance noted, is a slight blip when either D-Beam or Ribbon is engaged. That's the same you get with any controller, including the built-in D-Beam and Ribbon. I'm OK with that, but obviously it'd be ideal if that never happens.

I spent some time last night fiddling with it all, and expect to more, oh, every night until I've tried lots of stuff, such as using the controller to change the Pitch Bend effect, or the Bend in Alt. Tuning. I haven't even tried those yet.

And I'm going to need to set the EPP to block or convert every PC message that the VJ sends. During my tests, I'd sometimes tap a footswitch on the VJ, and my VG-99 would switch to another patch. Once I have all those mapped, I can share the settings I use in my EPP as a text file.

mooncaine

Almost forgot to mention: the MIDI Solutions Events Processor Plus needs to get its power from the MIDI IN port, and I found that some of my MIDI devices would not power it. I did an adapter hokey-pokey dance and got my PreSonus Firebox working, plugged into a FireWire 400-to-800 cable, then into a FW800-Thunderbolt adapter, then into a Thunderbolt-to-USB-C adapter. Incredibly, nothing smoked and the power, and MIDI data, got through to the EPP box.

Using that chain, I am able to program the EPP box.

The Virtual Jeff powers the EPP box just fine, though, so I only need the cobbled-together MIDI interface chain when I want to program the EPP with different settings. If your MIDI interface doesn't have a separate power source (ie, if it only gets its power from MIDI or USB), it might not work with the EPP.

vanceg

Thanks for being a lot more detailed about the MIDI that the VJ is sending than I was.   

mooncaine

(ya know, that just sounds like a Futurama-esque commercial, somehow)

I have played the Virtual Jeff for several days, and one thing keeps happening: sometimes, the pitch stops bending, and just stays stuck at one semitone off.

Not sure, but it seems to be 'resettable' cuz when I pull out the 1/8" connector and reinsert it, the VJ works again. Also, this seemed to work: stomping the 'active' button on the floor unit twice, to toggle it off/on.

I already tried replacing the 1/8" stereo cable with a fresh new one.

PS: mine squeaks every now & then, mechanically. Does yours?

Elantric

Quote from: mooncaine on June 20, 2017, 08:39:04 PM
(ya know, that just sounds like a Futurama-esque commercial, somehow)

I have played the Virtual Jeff for several days, and one thing keeps happening: sometimes, the pitch stops bending, and just stays stuck at one semitone off.

Not sure, but it seems to be 'resettable' cuz when I pull out the 1/8" connector and reinsert it, the VJ works again. Also, this seemed to work: stomping the 'active' button on the floor unit twice, to toggle it off/on.

I already tried replacing the 1/8" stereo cable with a fresh new one.

PS: mine squeaks every now & then, mechanically. Does yours?

ask here
https://www.facebook.com/groups/VirtualJeffUsers/

mooncaine

Oh, yeah, thanks, I forgot I joined that group!

mooncaine

I think I've narrowed down the source of the (only) prob I'm having with the VJ. It seems to be putting out MIDI data just like it ought to, but every once in a while, it fails in a horrible way: it stops working and leaves my guitar a half-step out of tune.

I am using a box to filter/convert the VJ's MIDI output into something I can use with the VG-99. It's possible that my choices, my programming, are causing this intermittent failure. I need to spend more time with it all hooked up to a MIDI interface, my Mac, and MIDI Monitor for a few more hours, and try to capture what's going on at the moment that the guitar stops responding and sticks itself a half-step out of tune.

I'm converting the Program Change messages into separate MIDI CC messages, and then using those to toggle the D Beam and Ribbon effects on/off.

The only MIDI CC sent by the VJ is CC 11. So I set up my filter box to listen for a range of values of that CC from 0 to 1. If it sees CC 11 go down to value 1 or zero, it fires off a MIDI CC 12 at value 2. That's the toggle, and it's set to be a Momentary control to turn off the D Beam. I do a similar thing with another CC for turning off the Ribbon, so that the D Beam and Ribbon are never triggered simultaneously. That way, I can use CC 11 as the controller for both D Beam and Ribbon.

I'll let you all know, here, if and when I feel that I've found a reliable solution.

vanceg

Hey there Mooncaine:
I've FINALLY had more of a chance to work with the Virtual Jeff and have a few observations. 
First of all - thus far I've mainly been working with getting the Virtual Jeff to function well as a controller for the "T-Arm" function of the VG-99. I have remapped the MIDI out of the Virtual Jeff so that the VJ is sending just MIDI CC11 to the VG-99 and this has been assigned to the 'DBeam: T-Arm: Control parameter.   Obviously this allows me to control the T-Arm "Virtual Whammy Bar" effect using the Virtual Jeff.  Cool.

Previously I had noticed that there was an audible glitch when the Virtual Jeff came to rest in it's middle position, sending out a MIDI CC message of 64.  It was quite noticable and made small movements of the VJ quite annoying sounding as it sounded like the pitch shifting that is going on inside the VG-99 to produce the whammy effect was turning on and off. 

To try to KEEP the T-arm effect ON, and avoid this glitch, I decided to assign a control to turn the parameter "DBeam:T-Arm:SW" on, and never turn it off. 
UNfortunately, I STILL got that weird glitch.  So I figured it wasn't the T-Arm effect turning on and off, but was just a side effect of the T-Arm effect, and maybe there wasn't anything I could do about it.

But then I tried not using the "DBeam" control of the T-Arm effect, but using the Ribbon control of the T-Arm effect.  Again, I had to assign a control to turn on the "Ribbon:T-Arm:SW" parameter as soon as the patch is loaded.   I then assigned MIDI CC11 to the "Ribbon:T-Arm:control" parameter.  When I move and then release the Virtual Jeff, I do NOT get that weird glitch sounding like the T-Arm effect is turning on and off. 

Very odd.  Perhaps the D-beam has some "auto on" feature (which would make some sense)... or perhaps this is a bug... but I've checked it several times and it really seems to be the case.

IF you are annoyed by that little "glitch" that happens, you might want to try using the T-arm control inside the Ribbon control area.



had been assigning the MIDI CC message that was coming from the Virtual Jeff to the

vanceg

I also wanted to mention that I have successfully worked out a way to use the Virtual Jeff whammy hardware WITHOUT the footpedal box that goes with it.  Now, MOST people will likely want to stick with the footpedal that comes with the Virtual Jeff, but I wanted to have a physically smaller solution, and I was hoping to find a device which would allow me to use the Virtual Jeff whammy bar hardware, but would allow me to assign any MIDI messages I wanted to it. 
I was successful plugging my Virtual Jeff into a Audiofront MIDI Expression Quatro.  I simply connected the Virtual Jeff to the MIDI Expression Quatro using a TRS cable.  I then used the MIDI Expression Quatro to reverse the polarity of the jack (necessary due to the way they have the Virtual Jeff wired).  After that, the Virtual Jeff basically functioned like any other continuous controller such as a pedal or knob hooked up to the MIDI Expression.  I assigned it's output to be MIDI CC11 and I was off to the races, assigning it's output to parameters in the VG-99.

I stress again that MOST people are going to want to simply use the Virtual Jeff's footpedal as it seems to do a very good job of "taming" the raw signal from the Virtual Jeff hardware.  Most notably, the Virtual Jeff  whammy hardware is not entirely consistent with the voltage that it puts out when in it's rest state.  Sometimes it's a little higher, sometimes a little lower.  This causes it to not return to MIDI CC value 63 (middle) reliably. But the footpedal that comes with the Virtual Jeff takes care of this and I have never seen the Virtual Jeff footpedal put out anything other than it's proper signal values when in the middle position. This is ONLY an issue if you are trying to misuse the Virtual Jeff whammy bar hardware and connect it to a third party CV to MIDI converter. 

For this reason, I'd recommend to people that they DO use the included footpedal with the Virtual Jeff whammy hardware.  I just wanted to note that I HAVE successfully used it with a third party CV to MIDI converter...but with some extra difficulty.

vanceg

Hmmm -  I haven't seen this happen. But I'll keep my eyes open.



Quote from: mooncaine on June 20, 2017, 08:39:04 PM
(ya know, that just sounds like a Futurama-esque commercial, somehow)

I have played the Virtual Jeff for several days, and one thing keeps happening: sometimes, the pitch stops bending, and just stays stuck at one semitone off.

Not sure, but it seems to be 'resettable' cuz when I pull out the 1/8" connector and reinsert it, the VJ works again. Also, this seemed to work: stomping the 'active' button on the floor unit twice, to toggle it off/on.

I already tried replacing the 1/8" stereo cable with a fresh new one.

PS: mine squeaks every now & then, mechanically. Does yours?

mooncaine

Thanks, Vance.

I think I found an easier solution to the 'glitch at zero' prob you described: just enable the Bend, in Alt. Tuning. You don't need to use it, engage, or change any settings. Just enable Bend, and don't use it. This smooths out the glitch, always.

Do let me know, please, if your VJ stops bending or gets stuck at a certain pitch.

Vance, does yours squeak? I mean, with all your audio off or muted, do you hear the actual mechanical parts squeak when you move the arm? Mine squeaks. Sounds humorous.

I haven't graphed a range of output values, but I suspect that the VJ's floor box is mapping its output to a curve: the first few degrees of rotation give you small changes, and the curve shoots upward near the end of its rotation, giving large changes for the same rotation. That means: you can use the bar to finely control the bend at first, but when you move the bar almost as far as it will go, the pitch changes more radically for the same rotation. That's not a prob, just an observation (in fact, I like it).

Aburlbaw

So will the VJ control more than the VG-99 and Digitech Whammy?   Specifically a TC Electronics Nova System?   Every time I plug the VJ midi into the Nova System,  The nova system locks up.  Any feedback would be appreciated

.


vanceg

Do you know the MIDI implementation of the Nova System?  Is the Virtual Jeff sending compatible MIDI information?  I would think it's unlikely that without some MIDI processing that the Nova and the Whammy Pedal would have the same MIDI implementation. 
The VJ is just sending MIDI CC messages and Program Change messages. I suspect it's the Program Change messages that are confusing the Nova.



Quote from: Aburlbaw on January 15, 2018, 07:51:01 PM
So will the VJ control more than the VG-99 and Digitech Whammy?   Specifically a TC Electronics Nova System?   Every time I plug the VJ midi into the Nova System,  The nova system locks up.  Any feedback would be appreciated

.

mooncaine

One way to deal with it is to buy a MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus. That box can filter out the MIDI Program Change messages, or, as an alternative, it could translate them into whatever MIDI control messages your Nova needs to see. It would really help to have a chart or list of the MIDI controls that the TC Nova accepts, it's MIDI Implementation Chart.

admin

#123
info@fomofx.com

http://www.fomofx.com/contact-us

https://facebook.com/fomofx/

FOMOfx® 'Virtual Jeff™'
- Digital Whammy Bar -
Designed for FOMOfx, a partnership between Peter Walker (record producer & guitar diva) and Ian Moss (guitar legend), 'Virtual Jeff' is the world's first 'digital whammy'.

Scope: ELECTRONICS + FIRMWARE
http://www.amatek.com/projects.html

The Whammy Bar as a Digital Effect Controller
http://www.nime.org/proceedings/2018/nime2018_paper0077.pdf


vanceg

Replying to this VERY old post- Yes, inded, turning on BEND does help the glitch. It sounds to me like turning Bend on perminantly turns on the pitch shifter, and it seems that the pitch shifting gets turned OFF automatically when the whammy is at the neutral/0 position...so we're effectlively just keeping the pitch shifting turned on all the time even if set to a value of 0. That's acceptable to me.


Quote from: mooncaine on August 23, 2017, 03:53:43 PM
Thanks, Vance.

I think I found an easier solution to the 'glitch at zero' prob you described: just enable the Bend, in Alt. Tuning. You don't need to use it, engage, or change any settings. Just enable Bend, and don't use it. This smooths out the glitch, always.

Do let me know, please, if your VJ stops bending or gets stuck at a certain pitch.

Vance, does yours squeak? I mean, with all your audio off or muted, do you hear the actual mechanical parts squeak when you move the arm? Mine squeaks. Sounds humorous.

I haven't graphed a range of output values, but I suspect that the VJ's floor box is mapping its output to a curve: the first few degrees of rotation give you small changes, and the curve shoots upward near the end of its rotation, giving large changes for the same rotation. That means: you can use the bar to finely control the bend at first, but when you move the bar almost as far as it will go, the pitch changes more radically for the same rotation. That's not a prob, just an observation (in fact, I like it).