Hey Guys,
I'm in the process of replacing the standard chrome GK-3 toggle switch that comes with internal kit with a black one to match my guitar. Well, I'd like to verify that this switch is a on/on/on switch. I believe it is from my experience of playing the guitar thus far but I'd like to be certain since there are several versions of the switch such as on/off/on etc. Thoughts please?
later,
Chipstar
GK-KIT-GT3
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GKKITGT3--roland-gk-kit-for-guitar
https://www.thomannmusic.com/roland_gk3kit_gitarre.htm
(https://andertons-productimages.imgix.net/14579-GKKITGT3_super.jpg?auto=compress&w=1000&h=1000&auto=format)
Buy the kit from Andertons UK for $130
https://www.andertons.co.uk/roland-gk3-internal-pickup-kit-%28for-use-with-roland-guitar-synths%29-gkkitgt3
The German GK-KIT-GT3 Instructions are far more detailed than anything else provided from Roland US - get the PDF here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133.0;attach=16610
(https://i.postimg.cc/MGg4mQCP/GK-3-internal-zps5c5d2c3d.png)
The German GK-KIT-GT3 Instructions are far more detailed than anything else provided from Roland - get the PDF here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133.0;attach=16610
For the Synth / Mix / Guitar switch:
On - Off - On
is the type you need.
Also when doing custom installs, I like to swap the S1 and S2 switches with a Godin LGXT style single spring loaded toggle momentary switch switch called type:
(on) - off - (on)
The Ibanez RG1520G uses this type control arrangement.
On stock GK-KIT-GT3 Installs, there is a resulting tone loss in stock mag pickups.
Avoid that by using the Fender Roland Ready/GC-1 method with a switching Switchcraft 12A jack to obtain "true bypass" with improved tone when not using the GK 13 cable
(https://www.banzaimusic.com/image.php?id=3387&type=D)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=28542;image)
FENDER GC-1 SWITCHING OUTPUT JACK WIRING
GC-1 schematic is here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133.0;attach=17948
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0
Many prefer to reverse wire the GK hex pickup , to accommodate mounting backwards
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3365.0
http://youtu.be/NTC_Exf4e4Y
https://youtu.be/hGAJLg6nhIk
Likewise.
And replace the mix switch with one that goes off-off-off!!!! You can control this parameter from the VG!!!!
Oh well, i guess people just like to include all the switches they can. If Roland had included an On/Off switch in the circuit board, I still wouldn't need it if you know what I mean.
$0.02
Quote from: dead_lizard on January 30, 2008, 03:33:13 PM
And replace the mix switch with one that goes off-off-off!!!! You can control this parameter from the VG!!!!
Could you elaborate?
He means - Eliminate it!
Regarding the "Guitar/Mix/GK(Synth) Switch: read this thread
GK-3's unique Pin 9 functionality explained
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5259.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5259.0)
while reveals the mysteries of how the GK-3 employs Pin #9 to determine the position of this three way switch and transmit different values for MIDI CC#7 (Channel Volume) based upon the current position of the three way "Guitar/Mix/GK(Synth) Switch.
I'm going to have to concur with mos. That doesn't make sense. The way that mine is configured it functions in two different ways depending on the way that the GK control is set under System. When the GK control is set to off it controls certain functions and when the GK control is set to On or Auto it has another set of functions. I would lose functionality by removing it. Furthermore, I have a hole drilled into my pickguard so I'm not going to just put a piece of duct tape over it. And one more thought, just because a function may exist in the VG-99 doesn't mean that it shouldn't be on the guitar. Should I remove the S1 and S2 just because I can change patches from the FC300 and the VG-99 console? Perhaps I should sell my FC300. I'm just going to let the Roland tech that worked on the guitar handle this.
later,
Chipstar
Well, I removed SW2 because I realised a toggle switch can achieve the same things. If you've got a hole in your pickguard, then by all means fill it. I just don't like having redundant controls on my guitar.
Can you elaborate on how your guitar functions differently with the mix switch in different positions?
Basically I see the mix switch as just turning one parameter out of hundreds from 1 to 120. In theory, yes I could rig up a switch for each parameter in the manual, but it sort of defeats the purpose of having assignable controls on my guitar. For instance, the toggle switch does not always have to be a toggle switch. Sometimes I assign my GK vol to bend strings or to filter my signal. I can even set up my GK vol to act as a better alternative to the mix switch: a blend pot.
Horses for courses, I guess.
The MIX switch is not assignable in the VG-99. In fact the way it's wired I'm not sure it could be (although the GK3 may make it possible). Only the S1/S2 and volume are assignable.
We need a 'Reply to' option on this site. I can't tell to whom mos is responding. Mos, if you are replying to me, I haven't assigned any functions to this mini-toggle. It simply has a total of 6 functions that it enables depending on its postion and the configuration of the GK control under System. I explained it on another forum and I think it would be best for me to paste that explanation here. I need to go find it and then I will reply back after I finish my drum, keyboard and guitar practice today.
later,
Chipstar
Alright guys, I've got the results of my tests to share with you on this. They are interest to me. Perhaps you can make sense of it.
I used the following gear:
Custom American Strat HH with internal GK-3
VG-99
Boss GT-Pro (1/4 inch from Strat running into it)
EMU 1820M
Hex key to test each pickup for each test to verify activity
GK Control Off: (Purely effects processor)
Down: 1/4 inch running into GT-Pro and Seymour Duncans running out of 13 pin into VG99
Middle: 1/4 inch running into GT-Pro and Seymour Duncans running out of 13 pin into VG99
Up: 13 Pin output disabled - 1/4 inch output only (acts as kill switch if no 1/4 inch cable connected)
These results are not terribly shocking but the results below were a little unusual.
GK Control On:
Down: 1/4 inch output on - GK-3 enabled and VG 99 with modeling enabled
Middle: 1/4 inch output on had a gain and treble boost/texture increase with GK-3 enabled and VG 99 with modeling enabled. This was tested by muting VG-99 channel on the EMU Patchmix as well as turning VG volume knob all the way down in a seperate test. The difference can be heard and seen on 1/4 inch channel on the EMU Patchmix only. When reversing the test by muting 1/4 inch Patchmix channel or turning the 1/4 volume all the way down, the toggle switch has no effect on the signal from the GK-3 to the VG-99 as it was always on.
Up: 1/4 inch output on - GK-3 enabled and VG 99 with modeling enabled
As it relates to the middle configuration, I tried this with every kind of texture contrast that I could. For example, an acoustic on the VG-99 with Fuzz Wah on the GT-Pro, then reversing test. I tried detunings on VG-99 with Acoustic models on the GT-Pro. Every test was the same, the middle position always had an effect on the 1/4 inch output not the 13 pin output. It wasn't like a doubling of the signal but there was change in the texture of the sound which was like using a BBE processor or something similar.
Needless to say, these were not the results that I expected based on the tests that I ran through with the Roland tech the day I got my guitar back but it is pretty odd. I'd must say that I like the middle position even though I don't have the Synth/Mix/Guitar setup referred to below.
What do you guys think about this?
later,
Chipstar
Alright, I spoke with the Roland tech about this. He seems to think that even with the 13 pin connection muted that they way he has the setup configured that the Seymour Duncans are running through the mod board and then out to the 1/4 inch jack so there is a gain/signal/texture tweak that is occuring in all of this hence the change in the sound. I really like it. The center position is the the way to go for me.
later,
Chipstar
Has anyone aleady installed an internal GK-KIT on a Les Paul type guitar (I mean with Tune-O-Matic bridge).
I just ordered one and I'm concerned about the huge distance between the guitar body and the strings compared to a Strat-like guitar (you know the angled neck thing).
Does the GK-KIT GT3 come with a Gibson-specific mounting plate like the GK-3 ?
Does Roland provide some kind of a chock to compensate the difference between Strats and Gibsons ?
Hey Fredo,
I have not done this install on a Les Paul but I had it done on a Strat. There is no adapter provided for your Gibson. You have the option to tape the pickup down or you can screw it into the body. I'm not a fan of the curvature of the GK-3. It's supposed to help with archtop guitars but it puts my E strings so far away from the pickup that I have crosstalk at times. The pickup does have an adjustment screw that allows you to adjust the height of the 6 magnets but the issue that you will see is that when you get the outer magnets to a reasonable height, the center magnets are so high that they touch the G and D strings. I think that a flat pickup would have been a much better idea or at least having a Fender or Gibson version of the kit instead of trying to be 'all things to all people.' Sustainiac mentioned a missing part from the GK Kit that is supposed to bend the pickup (or something like that) but as rigid as this thing is I don't know how it's possible. Sus... If you're out there, please explain this. Now I have have seen a Fender version of the GK-3 that is flat and spring mounted like a typical analog pickup but I suspect this is the version that goes into the new VG Strats not to be confused with the Roland Ready Strats. It would be nice if I had access to this version so I could get the proper distance between all the strings. It is my belief from my experience with Roland and Fender that they want this process to be dissuasive hence the missing part and support departments that won't help so that you will by a VG or Roland Ready Strat.
later,
Chipstar
Hi Chipstar,
Thanx for the reply.
My understanding is that the pickup screw is there to fit the fingerboard's radius (cf. ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/ProductSupport/manuals/GK-3_OM.pdf page 8 ).
The minimal radius is 184mm (when the screw is turned fully clockwise). The max is 400mm.
You should not use this screw to adjust the overall pickup/string distance.
Maybe the missing part mentioned by Sustainiac is the adjustment template specified in this document (not provided with GK-KIT since it is suposed to be mounted by a luthier I think...).
Fred.
You can sometimes pick up the bridge mounting bracket for the GK KIT pickup element on E-Bay. Guys who buy the GK-3 for use on their strat type guitars don't need them. Typical price is about $20, and it results in the proper pickup to string spacing on a Les Paul. Try searching for GK mount.
Hi there,
Just finished installing the GK-Kit on my Hagstrom Ultra Swede.
As I thought I had to place an about 10mm thick chock between the guitar body and the GK pickup.
I used a simple piece of wood and painted it black.
The most difficult part was to carve the wood to match the guitar body.
The GK pickup cable passes through a hole drilled in the standard bridge pickup plastic cover, and then follows the same path as the original pickup wires.
I had to cut the GK pickup's pin which was to wide to let me pass the cable through the holes. Once the cables passed, I soldered the pin back in place.
I placed an "on off on" switch for S1/S2, and replaced the original tone control by the GK-Volume.
Sorry I did not took some pics during the installation...
Here is the finished guitar.
As you can see on the pics, the GK pickup is taking quite some place on the right side of the low E string. And as it rises at some 15 mm above the guitar body, it can bother the left hand sometimes...
I just don't get why Roland made it that wide and why they do not put the "extra width" needed for the cable to go out on the other side. It would be much less bothering. Roland, if you ear me !...
Fredo.
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133.0;attach=570;image)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133.0;attach=571;image)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133.0;attach=575;image)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133.0;attach=576;image)
I finally got my C-55 back from my luthier yesterday. It looks like the third time is indeed the charm. Two prior attempts at completing the installation using just Roland's instructions resulted in some strange buggy behavior. The primary issues revolved around the misfunctioning of the S1/S2 switch. We finally figured out that the thing worked great on the bench when it was not enclosed in the installation, but as soon as everything was placed in the body cavities, weird behavior started. It was as if the S1/S2 was stuck in the on position. Eventually we tracked the problem to the 13-pin connector. When the 13pin connector was attached to a standard plate that followed the body's curvature and was screwed to the body, the buggy behavior would start. As soon as we pulled the connector from the body, releasing whatever pressure it was under, the buggy behavior would cease. Eventually the solution became one of custom fashioning a thicker mounting plate, actually out of hard rubber, that allows the 13-pin connector to be attached to it with less curvature that of the body itself. That is, the radius where the plate attaches is a greater radius than the curve of the body. Anyhow, all now appears well, and I will post pics in the next few days. :)
For those of you who might be wondering why I didn't just get factory Brian Moore 13-pin set-up, well, I might have, but the Custom Shop ceased operations. And, I actually prefer the Roland pickup and don't really care for the pseudo-acoustic tone that one gets from a Piezo on a solid body guitar.
Thanks to Merch I am one large step closer to jumping into the VG-99 universe (he helped me understand the FC300 and stomp box features of the VG-99).
My question now is how do people feel about the external or internal Gk-3? Should I consider another type of pickup?
My inclination is for the GK-3 internal model as it seems easier for set up, fitting in my case, putting on a guitar stand, etc. However, I am concerned about losing features, etc.
The guitar will be a high end american strat that I'll never sell, so I don't care about "value" or drilling holes. I do care about "simplicity", the ability to "touch knobs" while playing, etc. Also, I have a local guitar maker that does all of my work and I trust him with my instruments.
Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Tony
www.anthonycinquini.com
Quote from: antcinq on April 14, 2008, 10:04:56 AM
Thanks to Merch I am one large step closer to jumping into the VG-99 universe (he helped me understand the FC300 and stomp box features of the VG-99).
My question now is how do people feel about the external or internal Gk-3? Should I consider another type of pickup?
My inclination is for the GK-3 internal model as it seems easier for set up, fitting in my case, putting on a guitar stand, etc. However, I am concerned about losing features, etc.
The guitar will be a high end american strat that I'll never sell, so I don't care about "value" or drilling holes. I do care about "simplicity", the ability to "touch knobs" while playing, etc. Also, I have a local guitar maker that does all of my work and I trust him with my instruments.
Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Tony
www.anthonycinquini.com
I have both and I like having the internal better but it was a *lot* more work, for me at least. If I had to do it again I'd probably have it professionally installed. I've re-done my pickguard to make it look better (original was a real hack job). The one thing I didn't do such a great job with was the input jack faceplate. It was hard to get the crews to go in straight.
My re-do I'm using a push/pull pot and a resistor so I can use the strat volume for the GK volume. The extra volume know was really getting in my way where I had it. I'm also using a momentary toggle for the S1/S2 rather than the included switches.
Since you have someone you trust I would recommend an installed one as long as you are OK with the modifications as you mentioned. I have my internal in a strat also and I didn't have to do too much to the body itself other than the routing for the input jack and 2 holes for the pickup as well as a little area under the pickup for the wires to go into the body cavity. The rest was wiring.
As far as losing features, I can't think of any although I'm no expert. My understanding is they both function the same.
The external I have really isn't too bad. The GK-3 comes with a nice bracket that involves no screws/tape so it's pretty stable and does no damage to the guitar. Just looks a little odd. ;)
~telengard
The features with the internal vs. the external are exactly the same. If you go the internal route, you will be altering you strat's pickguard to accomodate a new volume knob, and to add the s/1 and s/2 switch or switches, and also to add the 3 way selector switch. A significant cavity will need to cut into your strat to hold the 13-pin connector and to allow wiring to be connected to it.There will probably be enough room under your pickguard to hold the circuit board for the GK-3-KIT, but, if not, you may need to create a cavity similar to the one found in the Clapton strat which holds the board for its mid boost. I personally prefer the aesthetic appeal of the internal pickup to that off adding an external GK-3. I klnow its an old reference, but it is the one that strikes home with me - adding an external GK-3 to your guitar makes it look like something the Borg got ahold of.
I know many do the following:
1) Buy a nice Strat - for the Neck and PUs
2) Buy a used Roland Ready Strat on Ebay
3) take both apart and use the best of all the components to make your "super strat" with internal GK.
4) reassemble left-over parts and resell those as a basic strat.
Here is my experience about installing an internal GK-Kit : https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=305.0
It has to be easier on a Strat since you will need no chock to setup the pickup. Also the pick-guard will leave you more space to place the pickup cable.
The most difficult part will be the routing for the 13 pin connector...
Anyway you need to be quite handy to do it yourself (woodwork and soldering) otherwise you'll end up with something ugly or not working.
That being said, the GK-Kit is far more comfortable and nice looking that an external GK-3 !
Fredo.
Thanks guys....one passing question, does the internal GK-3 or the VG-99 come with the required cable to connect the guitar to the VG-99? It doesn't appear so based on the propaganda on the internet.
I placed my order today. Thanks!!!
The VG-99 comes with the cable. See below, under accessories:
http://www.roland.com/PRODUCTS/EN/VG-99/specs.html (http://www.roland.com/PRODUCTS/EN/VG-99/specs.html)
Thanks guys. Just placed my order!!!!!!!
Tony
www.anthonycinquini.com
Fantastic looking job on that Fredo! When I get my next guitar, I'll probably be going the GK-3 Internal route.
RoC
Quote from: fredo on March 24, 2008, 11:53:25 AM
I just don't get why Roland made it that wide and why they do not put the "extra width" needed for the cable to go out on the other side. It would be much less bothering.
Since you can reverse the pickup direction on the VG-99, you can install the pickup upside down without any problem. I did that on my Ravelle (with the external pickup) and it works very well.
Yes I hesitated about reversing the pickup, but did not wanted to take the risk since the documentation states that it has to be installed this way. I guess it is to stay compatible with older units (VG-8 / GR-33 ?) that may not have the "reverse pickup" parameter.
Anyway good to know that a reversed pickup works fine with the 99 !
Hey guys, sorry to bring up an old thread but i thought this would fit in nicely here.
I was wondering how well the gk3 external fits into most cases. Does the case need to be modified at all?
I think I should be right as my guitar has a thin body with a raised top.
Fredo,
The GK-3 install looks great.
I'm considering the internal kit as well. I only see one of the switches installed on the top of the guitar. Did you not install the up/down switches, LED, and GK volume?
I'm trying to map out the install for my Charvel strat-type guitar and wonder if all these switches are necessary.
Thanks,
Chucky,
Actually I placed an "on off on" switch for S1/S2, instead of the two ugly push-buttons provided by Roland. I also replaced the original tone control of the guitar by the GK-Volume. I did so to preserve the overall aspect of the guitar.
To me the led is useless as well as the guitar / mix / synth switch (since it only sets the GK-Volume to 0 on guitar position, and sets the guitar volume to 0 on synth position).
Fredo.
Just got my kit in the mail today. I'm planning on installing it in a Charvel guitar that has active electronics (battery in body cavity). Does anyone know if there are any issues with installing an internal GK-3 in a guitar with this type of pickups?
Thanks,
Should work just fine - besure to retain the existing battery for your existing active electronics.
read the latest GK-3 Internal Install manual
ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/ProductSupport/manuals/GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf
Thanks for the feedback.
I think the instructions I got with the kit are more current. The footer on the last page says
03782690 08-02-03N
Cool,
If you spot a difference - post any changes you see, or better yet -if you could scan and make a pdf of your version and post it here. The Internal GK-3 Kit Install manual has always been an elusive beast. I had to dig to locate a download-able version from the Roland UK web site. Most Roland Dealers are un aware this item actually still exists.
I'm getting close to having my internal GK kit installed and want to install only the components that I need.
I'll be using the GK guitar primarily for live performance in a classic rock tribute band. So I'll be using mostly the amp and effects models, with occasional guitar modeling especially for acoustics and alternate tunings.
I've played around with the display VG-99 at Guitar Center and the unit was not set up with any function for the Down/S1 and Up/S2 buttons.
What are these buttons for? I've read that they can be used for changing virtual pickups and in reading what little mention of them is in the VG manual, sounds like they can be assigned to anything.
If I don't install them I will punch two less holes (actually one since I'll go with an on-off-on toggle per recommendations on this site) in my guitar but I don't want to pass on having them installed if there is some value for live performance.
Any feedback on how people are using these buttons and if they are worth installing will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Charlie
I would put them in. They are very useful. As you said you can assign them to almost anything like tap tempo, leslie fast/slow, pickup select, alt. tuning, etc.
Yes, very useful ! 8)
Oh my! I use mine for program up/down on one guitar and pickup bridge/both/neck (3-way/5-way switch). Scroll through the assignable uses via the system/ctl menus. Really, there are so many was to assign control functions to the sw1/sw2 that they are indispensable. You can control the ctl 1,2 of the FC300. Learn why they are there so they don't go unused but I can't imagine you won't like the options.
D.
You can do ANYTHING with s1, s2. Any assignment can be activated by these. Think them as controllers or as a switch as you can think the gk volume as an exp pedal. It's the same thing! We are talking about midi!!!
For example if I don't bring my fc-300 on a live performance, I use them as patch swiches, or add a little amount of volume for solo etc.
Most of the guitarists use it as virtual pickup switcher!
I suggest you to install them even if you don't use them. You will see in the future how usefull they are.
:o Install everything! I use the S1/S2 all the time. You will too!
One option to think about is instead of two pushbutton switches you could install a single momentary contact double throw switch. One position is up the other is down and center is the neutral point that the switch returns to. That's the switch that the Graphtech system comes with.
As others have mentioned, they can be used for pretty much anything. I have mine set at the default where they control the UP and DOWN for patch selection.
RoC
Hey Guys,
I'm trying to find some photos online of the step by step process (or any, really) of installing a GK-2A internal kit in a stock Strat..I know that the Roland Ready Fender Strat has a cover plate on the back of it for the Roland electronics, and i'm just wondering how the electronics fit if your Strat isn't routed for them like the Roland Ready Strat is...Thanks, Royce
P.S. Is there any reason why it would be better to use the GK-3 instead of the GK-2A with the VG-99?
in other words, do you lose any important functions by using the GK-2A?
Hey VM,
I have an internal GK-3 installed on a stock Strat HH but I don't have any photos of the install process. Regarding your P.S., the only difference in the GK-2A and GK-3 is the form factor and the pickup radius. There is no performance gain or loss. Best of luck.
later,
Chipstar
Thanks Chipstar for that info about the two GK pickups in regards to the VG-99, i wasn't really sure.
So it sounds like the roland electronics will fit inside a stock Strat without routing..boy am i happy to hear that! :)
Yeah VM,
There's a guy at the Tampa Sam Ash that installs the mod board under the pickguard with no additional routing. My guys actually did create another cavity but he mangled the job and I had to have it repaired. Not cool.
later,
Chipstar
And then there's the 13 pin output jack.
Every Strat install I have seen- this was the most daunting aspect of the job - cutting the side of the body for the 13 pin output.
Gk3 Kit install labor seems to vary a lot in each region. My local luthier charges $500 just for labor - go figure.
I know many who simply check Ebay each week for Roland Ready Strat - or Roland Ready Strat Body - then swap necks and stuff to build the perfect GK strat - then sell the excess.
Sorry to hear about the mangled job on your Strat Chipstar, I would be upset about that myself..
WOW Sustainiac, $500.00 LABOR!..Maybe I just don't understand what all has to be done, or how long it takes, but that price for labor alone seems awfully high!
If anybody else reading this thread has had their internal Roland electronics professionally installed,
what were your experiences like, and how much were you charged?
The Roland Ready Strat would be a perfect solution for me, but I have never been able to get along well with Strats..The tummy cut and forearm contour (not to mention the volume control placement!) make me feel like i'm wrestling with them instead of playing them!
Quote'm trying to find some photos online of the step by step process (or any, really) of installing a GK-2A internal kit in a stock Strat.
QuoteThe Roland Ready Strat would be a perfect solution for me, but I have never been able to get along well with Strats.
Oh - now I totally understand ???
What Guitar do you have in Mind for YOUR GK-3 internal install?
RTM
GK Mag Hex PU with Internal Electronics Install Guide
==============================
ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/ProductSupport/manuals/GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf
The bulk of labor is for drilling cutting routing and installing this:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.miretail.com%2Fproducts%2FoptionLarge%2FFender%2F374815jpg.jpg&hash=2ed1fc3d4137532ca26eb585591bd859f02db744)
+ Add the cost of Wiring labor and a Brain that can read and understand a schematic.
And based on the questions/ reports/horror stories I get in my email on a monthly basis - I think only 60% of the Luthier installers can get a GK-3 Internal kit wired alright and functioning correctly the first time around.
Often they omit a crucial wire during the install - and then the Guitar's Owner cant figure out why the VG-99 cant process their Mag PU's - pointing the finger at the VG-99, when in fact its due to a botched GK-3 internal install.
I would call around and get a referral from someone who owns a guitar that has had this type work done
Roland US is no help here
I would start with RMC Pickup installation luthier list
http://www.rmcpickup.com/builders.html
If a Luthier can tackle an RMC installation - they should also be able to handle a Roland GK Internal Kit installation.
The typical problem installations are a result of substitution of wrong parts.
They see the Guitar/Mix/Synth switch and assume its an ON-ON-ON switch for audio signals - WRONG - it actually switches control voltages and its an on-off-on type.
Same with S1/ S2 - they either use the wrong type momentary switches. or the wrong spring loaded (On)-Off-(On) switch (like Ibanez Uses) and cant figure out the wiring.
Another aspect of GK-2A vs GK-3 is the damn introduction of the "GK Type" sensing signal on Pin 9 with the GK-3 - If it were me I would cut that signal wire on the GK-3 internal. It makes the Roland gear go into this "Auto Sense" routine for the GK use - in an attempt to be user friendly - but actually it just restricts your options.
more here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,73.0.html
FWIW -I'm happy with my Yamaha G1D GK PU. - it works better with Gibson spaced bridges.
And Bela Fleck agrees with me.
Virtual Madness Wrote: "I'm trying to find some photos online of the step by step process (or any, really) of installing a GK-2A internal kit in a stock Strat."
THEN Virtual Madness Wrote: "The Roland Ready Strat would be a perfect solution for me, but I have never been able to get along well with Strats."
Sustaniac Wrote: Oh - now I totally understand ???
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm sorry for the confusion! (I'm laughing at myself right now!)
If i may, let me explain myself..I have been playing a vintage Telecaster exclusively since my first recording sessions in 1977 up to late 2008 when i bought a Roland Ready Fender Stratocaster so i could A/B the sound of the Roland GK-2A against a piezo equipped Telecaster that i was already using with the VG-99..well..the conclusion that i came to, was that the VG-99 sounds better (to me) with the Roland GK-2A than it does with the Graph Tech piezo saddles..that should have been the end of it, but try as i might i just can't get used to the Strat after playing the Tele all these years..it's not the Strat i don't like, more specifically, it's the tummy cut and forearm contour i don't like.
Sustainiac Wrote: "What Guitar do you have in Mind for YOUR GK-3 internal install?"
I'm going to have a Strat body made for me (i told you it wasn't the Strat! ;)) that doesn't have the tummy cut or forearm contour, and that's why i was asking about being able to fit the Roland electronics inside a stock Strat..I wanted to find out so i can tell the builder how i need it routed!
After i read all you had to say about the installation details and horror stories of it being done wrong, $500.00 sounds like a deal! :-[
Thanks for that link to the RMC Pickup installation luthier list, that's a great resource to have.
I have a question for you sustainiac..i would love if my guitar could have a Volume and Tone control for my REAL Pickups, AND a Volume and Tone control for my VIRTUAL pickups..is there any way to do this?
Since i'm going to be using the electronics from the Roland Ready Strat, that means pin 9 will still be open..could that be used in any way for this?
You mentioned using the Yamaha G1D GK PU..I have the schematic for that pickup here, let me know if you want a copy of it, and if so, where i should send it.
I'm was going to try to get the schematic for the GK-2A GK PU from Roland..Do you think i need it if i have the schematic for the Yamaha G1D GK PU?..in other words are they more or less the same pickup?
Thanks for all the info and help on these things, i really appreciate it :) Royce
The G1D's schematic is nearly identical to the old GK-2A - as Roland has a specific spec which all the manufacturers were supposed match for sensitivity, impedance, etc. The Gk-3 introduced the PIN 9 voltage changes for each position of the Guitar/Mix/Synth switch - its not used on any gear made today. perhaps it will be employed on the VG-100 in 2011.
Personally - I hate the sound of Piezos feeding a VG-99 - I always hear this brittle high end distortion that sounds like a cat clawing on a chalkboard. Its like plugging an Ovation Acoustic with Piezo into your nice tube guitar amp - ouch. And i have RMC, Ghost, Baggs, Fishman - each have that piercing piezo quality.
By contrast the GK-2A, , GK3 , G1D sound more smooth to my ears - as I tend to shooot for more old school vintage tones.
BTW - Bill Rupert who gets any sound imaginable out of his VG-99 uses an Ibanez with a Roland GK PU strung with .008" gauge strings
Having been there done that with the GK internal Kit.
if i were building a guitar today i would compare all GK mag hex PUs.
*Yamaha G1D (same as old Axon PU)
*Roland GK2A
*Roland GK-3
*Axon/Seymour Duncan Hex PU
And find the one that had the best E to E spacing match for my desired bridge.
THen I would tear it apart and put the guts inside my guitar
This guy did the same thing and created complete plans - download here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42.0;attach=60 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42.0;attach=60)
The electronic "guts" circuit of G1D is identical to GK-2A
To add your VG-99 Tone control
Install a 10K linear pot feed its middle tap to Pin 9 on GK 13 cable to a custom DIY 13 pin break out box or RMC Fanout box and take the Pin 9 signal via 1/4" plug and feed the VG-99 Expression pedal Jack Input - then Map it any function you like.
I grew up playing Gibson's with 24.75" scale length, and tighter E to E bridge spacing - and recently got a Gibson Dark Fire,
So I hardly play my Fender 25.5" scale length instruments any more. I can get better string vibrato with the Gibsons. or a Gretsch ( 25" scale length)
The longer Fender scale length just makes it hard for me - everybody has unique persective.
Anyway
I love your description of the piezo tone with the VG-99: "Its like plugging an Ovation Acoustic with Piezo into your nice tube guitar amp - ouch" That's EXACTLY what it sounds like! :)
I prefer vintage tones too..it's one of my goals (when work slows down a little bit!) to program the VG-99 to get some of my favorite Beatles guitar tones (especially "Revolver" era) as well as Clapton's tones from the Bluesbreakers LP.
Thanks for that info on how to use pin 9 to have another parameter be controlled from my guitar..I've been wondering about that info for some time now..I didn't even know if it was possible, so your info really got my spirits up!..Luckily, I have an RMC Fanout box so i won't have to get anything but the 10K linear pot to do it.
I know what you're saying about the Gibson scale length, I recently got out my old 1964 Fender Duo-Sonic II with the 24 inch scale, and i've been having a blast playing it!..it makes the Strat and Tele feel too big when i switch back to playing them.
Congratulations on your Gibson Dark Fire guitar!..I haven't had the pleasure of playing one of those yet.
Got your PM, i'm on it..Thanks again, Royce :)
And i sell it!!
I had a luthier fit my GK-3 into my American Hardtail Strat. He broke the pickguard, which I had to redo myself (he replaced it) and he drilled out the fitting for the 13 pin slightly off centre. He also charged about 500 AUD for the job. The circuit board fits under the volume and tone pots (provided you don't have something that sits deep in the cavity, like a TBX pot). To keep it clean, I did not fit the LED and I used a toggle of the same size as the one included for pickup selection (off in the middle and momentarily on either side). I fitted covers on the toggles from: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/toggleswitchcvr.php
Despite the drama, I believe that an internal GK is a more aesthetically pleasing approach.
I forgot to say that I would NOT recommend cutting out the pick-guard around the hex pickup. If you want your action to be ultra-low, this may not work for you unless you have a micro-tilt adjustable neck. I can get my action down pretty low without using this adjustment (but I also want it slightly higher than my other mag PU Strat because I want to be able to play slide using the alternate tunings).
hi,
i just managed to install an gk-3 internal kit into my steinberger spirit.
it was a nightmare and took me like 12 hours, lot of routing, very limited space available in that little
guitar, strange kind of wood, etc.
anyway, everything works, but the normal guitar sound, or maybe i don´t understand it.
with the Guitar/Mix/Gk switch set to Gk, o.k.
with the Guitar/Mix/Gk switch set to Mix, o.k.
with the Guitar/Mix/Gk switch set to Guitar, no sound at all.
it´s no big deal because i don´t use the normal pick ups, just wanted to know if did something wrong.
everything else ( S1, S2, volume ) works fine.
chris
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I don't have an answer to your question but I just wanted to congratulate you on your excellent looking
professional looking GK3 installation.
I might have an idea though, I believe most VG-99 patches are set to have your regular pickup volume set
to 0 internally if I remember right so you'd have to edit that so the patch has the regular pickups turned up
and then save that so it remembers it.
In my own case I do a slightly different process in that I run my standard pickups thru my regular guitar
setup and then run that out in stereo into a mixer and take the VG-99 stereo outs into the same mixer
and then run that to house or a Roland JC120.
thanks! 8)
the volume for the normal pick up is set to 50, otherwise i wouldn´t hear the normal pickup´s in the middle/mix position of the selector switch.
just found out that switching to "guitar" with the select switch turns the patch volume in the mixer section down to zero. ???
the regular pick up signal is than still available on the guitar out jack on the vg-99.
when i connect my strat with a external gk-3 i can still use the vg as a effect and amp modeler just using the 13-pin cable.
somebody with an internal gk-3 kit could check this for me, please?
o.k., problem solved:
i found out that everything is already explained in this thread:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,419.msg1852.html#msg1852
Has anyone combined a Roland GK Internal Kit with Ghost or RMC PUs on a strat and gotten HEX output successfully?
I've had the Internal with the Roland PU for years now but it would be great to attch that PU wire to individ bridge pieces - or is it a pipe dream?
Quote from: lansae on November 21, 2009, 12:31:27 PM
Has anyone combined a Roland GK Internal Kit with Ghost or RMC PUs on a strat and gotten HEX output successfully?
I've had the Internal with the Roland PU for years now but it would be great to attch that PU wire to individ bridge pieces - or is it a pipe dream?
So, you want to ditch the GK pickup and replace it with Piezo pickups, right? And you want to use the GK's preamp and 13pin output which is currently already wired in your guitar to connect the Piezos to?
Hmmm. Well, I suppose it's theoretically possible, but I REALLY wouldn't recommend it: The preamp that you have installed now is tweaked for the Roland pickup (a magnetic pickup). If you attach Piezo's to that preamp, I don't know what's it's going to sound like...and the volume may be way off. Why in the world would you not purchase the preamp and 13pin output jack that comes with the Ghost or RMCs and just replace the whole system?
Vance
Hi.
Does anybody know what you can leave out of the gk3 internal installation. I only need the GK volume and would be happy to minimize the work by leaving out the gk/guitar selector and S1 S2 switches etc. I am only going to use it as a gk guitar and don't need access to the original pickups.
Thanks
I've never done this, but it seems entirely possible because the S1 S2 and GK/Guitar selectors are simply buttons and a switch that attach to the main little GK control board itself. I would think the WORST case scenario would be that you might have to jumper a couple of pins on the GK board together to simulate the GK/guitar selector switch being in the "GK" position.
Elantric - what do you think?
Vance
Quote from: biese on February 03, 2010, 10:52:28 AM
Hi.
Does anybody know what you can leave out of the gk3 internal installation. I only need the GK volume and would be happy to minimize the work by leaving out the gk/guitar selector and S1 S2 switches etc. I am only going to use it as a gk guitar and don't need access to the original pickups.
Thanks
I agree
You can skip the switches if you like, but, if the guitar already has extra holes, you may as well include S1 and S2. You're giving up a lot of on-board control if you leave them off. A trip to the hardware store will get you some washers to use as adapters to mount the switches in the existing holes.
Since they are On/Off/On switches they are Off in the mid position which means not connecting the switch to the circuit board leaves the circuit in exact same state as if S1/S2 is in the middle. I also had a case where I did not need the GK/PU selector but didn't want to disconnect it either so I left it inside the cavity. Doesn't take much space. Just set it to the setting you prefer.
Quote from: paults on February 03, 2010, 04:11:02 PM
You can skip the switches if you like, but, if the guitar already has extra holes, you may as well include S1 and S2. You're giving up a lot of on-board control if you leave them off. A trip to the hardware store will get you some washers to use as adapters to mount the switches in the existing holes.
I would use the S1, S2 switches. These functions can be combined into one single pole/double throw (I think that's right, but can someone verify) switch which might make for a cleaner install.
QuoteI would use the S1, S2 switches. These functions can be combined into one single pole/double throw (I think that's right, but can someone verify)
yes - you can use whats called
(on)-off-(on)
the parentheses = momentary spring loaded actions
Like this one
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NKK-Switches/M2028SS1W01-RO/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsqIr59i2oRcgsEHt03K3JtXFSrP7dexUY%3d
Center = the default setting at rest
click it "Up" = S1
click it "Down" = S2
its spring loaded and returns to center position when released.
They used this type switch in the Ibanez RG-1520G with 13pin Output
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=106;image
Yes. You can definitely use a single switch. I used one on my Strat instead of having to fit both buttons.
Quote from: Elantric on February 07, 2009, 06:00:15 PM
To add your VG-99 Tone Control install a 10K linear pot feed its middle tap to Pin 9 on GK 13 cable to a custom DIY 13 pin break out box or RMC Fanout box and take the Pin 9 signal via 1/4" plug and feed the VG-99 Expression pedal Jack Input - then Map it any function you like.
Hey Elantric, (or anybody else who can answer!)
Sorry to trouble you with this, but i have a few more questions.
1. Do i have to connect one of the lugs on the 10K pot to ground?..i was experimenting last night by touching the wire from the middle tap to all the pins on the underside of the 13 pin jack while being plugged into the VG-99, and i was unable to get it to function.
2. Which one of these pins in the photo of the underside of the 13 pin jack is pin 9?, and is soldering the only way to connect to it?
3. Does the 1/4 cable that runs from the pin 9 output of the RMC Fanout box to the VG-99 need to be stereo?
Thanks for helping, Royce
This Roland instruction pdf for the GK KIT may be helpful.
I found this about the 13 pin connector assignments, can you trace the wires back from that.
DIN-13 PINOUT
Please find below the pinout protocol for DIN-13 connectors.
Pin 1 = String 1
Pin 2 = String 2
Pin 3 = String 3
Pin 4 = String 4
Pin 5 = String 5
Pin 6 = String 6
Pin 7 = mono guitar signal
Pin 8 = synth volume
Pin 9 = no connection
Pin 10 = switch 1
Pin 11 = switch 2
Pin 12 = +7VDC power
Pin 13 = -7VDC power
Sleeve = Ground
FRONT VIEW OF JACK (FEMALE CONECTOR)
4 3 2 1
8 7 6 5
12 11 10 9
13
Hello VM,
when I was installed the GK-3 internal into my very new Eric Johnson Strat, I had quite wet fingers! :-)
What helped me a lot is the vidoe on youtube from graphtech, where they explain their installation!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0LKnIptf0E
Specially for the woodwork!
Good Luck!
Peter
Quote from: Virtual Madness on February 07, 2009, 11:27:11 AM
WOW Sustainiac, $500.00 LABOR!..Maybe I just don't understand what all has to be done, or how long it takes, but that price for labor alone seems awfully high!
If anybody else reading this thread has had their internal Roland electronics professionally installed,
what were your experiences like, and how much were you charged?
I had a Graphtech Floyd Rose bridge and Hexpander installed into one of my "superstrat" guitars (you can read about it here- https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php/topic,731.msg12716.html#msg12716). The installation was very similar to the GK installation (same toggle switches and 13 pin connector requirements), so I can lend some direct credance that:
* I originally rolled my eyes at a $500 installation quote but when I actually sat down and did the math it's really not out of line at all- especially if your installer is a well known and experienced luthier. My luthier charges a flat rate of $70 an hour so...
Prep work (making sure that he had all required parts, read the schematics, etc.) and check guitar for any preexisting issues- $35
Gut existing electronics and remove exisiting bridge (probably not necessary with a GK installation)- $35
Mask and route guitar body for the new bridge/pickup, micro switches, and new synth volume pot (lot's of measuring and marking with a little bit of routing...as my installer pointed out, one slip or mistake and it's a $300 new paint job)-$70
Mask and route body for 13 pin jack -$35
Install new bridge/pickup, switches pot, and 13 pin jack (route for additional wiring between new pickup and contol cavity)- $70
Install PC board in cavity (some sort of custom mounting needs to be made for any installation), wire (remember mag pickups need to be wired in as well) and reassemble everything- $70
Restring and set up guitar-$70
Test, tweak, and troubleshoot (see Elantric's common installation issues and remember that any time your luthier spends on the phone with support is billable time to you)-$105
Parts, misc, and taxes- ~$50
I had new pickups installed and the locking nut repositioned on my guitar as well, so don't forget to figure in time for additional customizations as well.
* The list of common installation issues that Elantric posted is *dead on*. My installer ran into several of the exact issues listed despite having done multiple installations in the past. One other "gotcha" to be on the look out for is that very few installers actually seem to have VG-units on hand in their shops, so they often have no way of testing installations unless you're willing to leave your VG with them (this was where I was really glad I decided to hang onto my old VG-8).
QUESTION #1. Do i have to connect one of the lugs on the 10K pot to ground?..i was experimenting last night by touching the wire from the middle tap of the 10k pot to all the pins on the underside of the 13 pin jack while being plugged into the VG-99, and i was unable to get it to function.
ANSWER #1.
Yes counterclockwise lug goes to Ground, center lug goes to Pin #9 on the 13 pin.
At the end of the line ,when you connect to the VG-99 Control pedal input, it must replicate this circuit
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=33.0;attach=821;image)
QUESTION #2. Which one of these pins in the photo below of the underside of the 13 pin jack is pin 9?, and is soldering the only way to connect to it?
ANSWER #2
Take a paperclip and an ohmmeter and buzz it out - to verify which pin is "pin #9"
QUESTION #3. Does the 1/4 cable that runs from the pin 9 output of the RMC Fanout box to the VG-99 need to be stereo?
ANSWER #3
Yes - refer to Fanout Box instruction manual
Sorry-tried to reply - looks like I edited!
Hey Elantric,
I just thought of something that might make this easier on both of us.
Below is a photo of the type of 10k pot that i am using, along with the Roland electronics.
Where EXACTLY do i connect the wires coming from the pot lugs? (where SPECIFICALLY on the Roland electronics)
I've done all kinds of electrical work on my own guitars over the years, so it would be no problem to connect the 10k pot to a 1/4 stereo jack/cable to mimic the EV-5, but i'm unsure of where to connect the wires to the Roland electronics as the schematic doesn't say which pins are which on the underside of the 13 pin output jack. (which has 14 pins underneath it!)
I thought since you've done this with your guitar(s), that you would share the info with me! :)
Thanks for all your help, and for this wonderful forum, Royce
Buy an ohmeter
learn electronics before you damage something
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=500
or have a luthier perform these mods
Hi,
I've just finished installing the gk internal on my parker p38 and it all seems to be working fine. The only issue is that the amount of sustain is noticably less than on my roland ready strat. Is this just down to the individual characteristics of the guitars? The initial output level seems to be fine and I have adjusted the relevant gk settings on the vg99. Anything else I should be checking or is it just that my strat has more 'ring' to it?
thanks
Do you have a pic of the install?
Is the GK close to the bridge?
What is the magnet height from the strings like?
If your Parker has significantly less sustain than your strat, that will affect the relative amount of sustain in the VG. If the string quits vibrating sooner, or if the vibration tapers off more quickly, the GK pickup has a different signal envelope as a source.
A more extreme example of this kind of difference is my GK-equipped Ovation, compared to my RR Strat. Acoustic-model patches played with the Strat have almost too much sustain. Les Paul model patches played on the Ovation have a woody plunky jazzbox character.
Your Parker may need a set up - it should have plenty of sustain. You didn't leave old, dead strings on it, did you? :)
New strings.
Pickup as close to the bridge as possible.
Pickup height set using the 1mm tool provided.
There is not a terrible lack of sustain on the parker, it's just that I have to crank the distortion up noticably more to get the same sort of sustain on lead sounds. The parker sounds great on rhythm work and clean sounds.
Also it could be the Magnetic Interaction of the Parker pickups and the GK-3A pickup.
Try lowering the Parker pickups, to reduce their magnetic flux effect on string pull.
thanks I hadn't thought of that
I just picked up a mint condition ESP M1 (http://espguitars.com/guitars_m2.html) with the intention of making it into a GK loaded "sister" for my ESP M2 with Floyd/Ghost system. I would *love* to install an internal GK kit on the M1, but I'm seriously concerned that a luthier will be able to effectively route the body to accept the wiring for the GK pickup? Before I buy an internal GK kit, I need some level of confidence that an internal kit will work on this guitar. Here's me thinking out loud:
* The M1 has a fixed bridge, neck through construction, and solid alder wings. The only current routing is for the control cavity and the bridge pickup. The good news is that the M1 control cavity is the same dimension as the M2's cavity and we've already determined that we can successfully wedge all of the required Ghost PCB and pieces parts into that limited space :)).
* I think we could drill down into the body (where the GK pickup would mount) for the GK pickup wiring, and I think we could drill from the bridge pickup cavity to then meet this "body hole" to create a conduit to pass the GK pickup wiring through the pickup cavity and then follow the existing pickup cabling route into the control cavity. What I don't know is:
A) How big a hole needs to be made in order for the "white multipin connector" on the GK pickup to pass through to the pickup cavity (the "conduit" created in the step above would have a hard right angle in it - would this require a fairly large hole to be routed simply to pass the connector though a "pinch point" ?).
B) How much cable length is there on the GK pickup? The cable would have to take a bit of a circuitous route from the base of the GK pickup though the pickup cavity, into the control cavity, and probably to the rear of the cavity where there would be room for the PCB board. This could (worst case) add 1 1/2 to 2 inches of extra cable travel. Will there be enough cable to do this?
* The M1 has a funky thin finish on it (more like a sealer- similar to an accoustic guitar finish). I'm not sure how it will take to being drilled/routed- especially if it needs to be done at angles.
Any thoughts, experiences, or general impressions would be appreciated.
The biggest hurdle the lack of space for the GK-3A Hex PU.
Most will have to relocate the Bridge Mag PU slightly further away from the floyd Bridge - to make room for the GK-3A Hex PU.
Quote from: Elantric on March 11, 2010, 01:38:15 PM
The biggest hurdle the lack of space for the GK-3A Hex PU.
Most will have to relocate the Bridge Mag PU slightly further away from the floyd Bridge - to make room for the GK-3A Hex PU.
Ah- the ESP M1 model I purchased is a 2007 model that has a fixed Tune O Matic bridge/string through body tail and plenty of room for the GK between the bridge and the pickup ring (it's the top guitar in the link to ESP that I included AND it's confusing as in the past ESP has used the M1 model number almost exclusively for models with Floyds). I learned my floyd lesson (and piezo lesson for that matter) the hard way with the M2 conversion I had done :).
The M1 is a sweet axe for a GK IMO. What floyd issues did you have. I have a GK on my Ibanez with floyd and I think its great.
I think I'm just gonna piece together a GK axe from eBay parts. I don't even need any regular mag pickups on it. So basically an unrouted body.
My "Floyd issues" have been due to using the combination of a Floyd with piezo pickups- I feel confident that a Floyd plus a mag/hex pick up combination would work great and avoid nearly all of the (noise/drop out/different sound timbre) issues I've had. As Elantric noted above- the exact problem that drove me to the piezo solution was that the guitar I was modifying didn't have enough space between the bridge pickup and the Floyd for a mag hex pickup.
I originally looked at building a GK only guitar as well, but ran into some basic roadblocks such as I couldn't find anyone that I could buy a "stock" neck from that had the "ESP" radius/profile/fret size that I favor (I kept getting told that it would have to be a cu$tom order). I also found out that buying a "body blank" with no prexisting pickup or control routing (e.g. volume knob holes) isn't very easy either. In the end I decided that *this* time around unless I went with a standard built model and modified it I was probably creating a multi year project :).
I came across this http://www.darrenlock.com/mt/archives/2009/03/epiphone_les_pa.html which provides a visual on an internal GK kit mounted with a TOM bridge and seems to suggest that the GK pickup should have enough cable length to feed though the bridge pick up route and reach the rear of the control cavity. Not sure if the better way to mount the GK is to screw it into the body or to see of I can find one of the metal "Les Paul" mounting brackets that comes with the external GK-3 kit.
Hi!
That website link is from my site. I've done three GK internal installations and the wiring has some length to it, but depending on the guitar, you do need to be creative with how you route it inside your guitar. If you are comfortable with a hand drill then sometimes you have to drill through for access, which can be tricky within the body cavity.
To be honest, the GK3 mounting plate kits that come as standard with new Roland External MIDI pickups are great and can be mounted in a variety of ways. The only issue with LP style guitar bridges is that you will need a lot of the supplied rubber spacers to raise up the actual MIDI pickup close to the strings - and I would reckon that there might be an issue with stability. So using the supplied screws and springs solves that issue (as you can see on my Epiphone installation). But once, you've screwed two holes into your new guitar you might as well just go the whole way!!! :D
But these days, I am more likely to do an external temporary fitting than a total internal job. It's really for vanity and you probably reduce the resale value of the guitar by adding the extra electronics because you make it too much of a niche instrument.
Hope this helps!
Welcome Darren (vroom)
I love your creative GK Controls mounting!
Fantastic
http://www.darrenlock.com/mt/archives/2009/03/30/epi3.jpg
Quote from: Elantric on March 12, 2010, 08:32:25 PM
Welcome Darren (vroom)
I love your creative GK Controls mounting!
Fantastic
It takes a steady hand with a mini hand drill and a lot of patience with the soldering iron. I really enjoyed doing that installation and it was a really great GK guitar, but I sold it on because the "gold" hardware started to go a little green after a short time. But I've also done installations on strats and my Fender Precision bass - though on my six-string bass I stuck with an external kit.
For those of you interesting in hearing some of my tunes, check out my podcast feed:
www.darrenlock.com/podcast.rss
Quote from: clamhands on March 12, 2010, 05:24:22 PM
I originally looked at building a GK only guitar as well, but ran into some basic roadblocks such as I couldn't find anyone that I could buy a "stock" neck from that had the "ESP" radius/profile/fret size that I favor (I kept getting told that it would have to be a cu$tom order). I also found out that buying a "body blank" with no prexisting pickup or control routing (e.g. volume knob holes) isn't very easy either. In the end I decided that *this* time around unless I went with a standard built model and modified it I was probably creating a multi year project :).
Theres lots of necks on ebay too: http://shop.ebay.ca/i.html?_nkw=esp+neck+m-100fm&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_dmpt=Guitar_Accessories&_odkw=esp+neck&_osacat=0
Theres a couple of guys on ebay selling bodies and I emailed them. Two guys were willing to make me a body with no routed pickups or control holes. I was looking at the jem style. http://shop.ebay.ca/deep6guitars/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=
So basically it would look something like this but not as crude as this (wiped the cavities out using photoshop quickly)
Quote from: A to the T on March 13, 2010, 08:05:01 AM
Theres lots of necks on ebay too: http://shop.ebay.ca/i.html?_nkw=esp+neck+m-100fm&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_dmpt=Guitar_Accessories&_odkw=esp+neck&_osacat=0
Theres a couple of guys on ebay selling bodies and I emailed them. Specifically this guy who would sell me a body with no routed pickups or control holes. I was looking at the jem style specifically. http://shop.ebay.ca/deep6guitars/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=
So basically it would look something like this but not as crude as this (wiped the cavities out using photoshop quickly)
The folks at Warmoth (www.warmoth.com) will also do custom guitar bodies. Here's one I ordered that had routing done by them for tremolo and control cavity, but nothing else:
I saw one on eBay for $18. Anyone know a cheaper option (or have one to sell?).
Thanks!
call up the Roland Parts Department in your area.
Part# G2057001R0
Here in Canada they sell it direct for 3 or 4 dollars.
great idea, thanks.
Recently, I decided to install a GK-Kit into a new guitar as my Ibanez RG540P is growing old on me.
I have never done this before so I documented the whole thing in HD video and uploaded it to youtube and vimeo for anyone interested.
There are a few VG-99 demo videos out there but none related to the installation of the GK itself so I thought this may be of interest.
Basically, I spent probably around 12 hours total on the installation and decision making etc. I trimmed it down to 27 minutes to try and give anyone like myself who hasn't done it before some insite. You should be prepared to be fairly handy with woodworking tools and a soldering iron. I include a complete tool parts list at the end of the video.
Hopefully this is of some use to someone interested in installing one themselves.
Its comes in two parts due to the length. They can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTC_Exf4e4Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGAJLg6nhIk
Video videos videos!!! You'd still be writing it down. My Ibanez isn't worth the time. Really nice work :D
Thanks. I'm intrigued to do another one but on a completely custom guitar and body that has nothing but just the gk pickup only....... (but maybe next year. lol)
Quote from: A to the T on August 16, 2010, 08:57:16 PM
Thanks. I'm intrigued to do another one
If it happens less to do on your next one. How about showing a few solderings. I need it. I am terrible at it.
Good:
http://www.kingbass.com/soldering101.html
Better:
http://www.theguitarfiles.com/guitarfile504.html
Here's when you want to start soldering on the 13 pin connectors and on circuit boards:
http://www.aaroncake.net/electronics/solder.htm
Great job, A to the T, both on the installation and the video. ;)
Thank you for having made the latter and for sharing it. :)
When is part III, "The test run", coming out? ;D
Great job on those videos! Those will be very helpful to people.
paults thanks for links for soldering.....scanned them for now and watched a bit of the 13 pin video page......very helpful!!
A great effort!!
...thank you, some very helpful bits in there ;)
Quote from: ddlooping on August 17, 2010, 07:23:46 PM
Great job, A to the T, both on the installation and the video. ;)
Thank you for having made the latter and for sharing it. :)
When is part III, "The test run", coming out? ;D
I was thinking the same thing. I thought at the end of part two we'd see you trying it out through the VG-99. :)
Ok, I can do that. Gimme a week or so to set something up. I'll make an attempt to demo the guitar and some of the patches I've made.
Quote from: A to the T on August 18, 2010, 01:08:15 PM
Ok, I can do that. Gimme a week or so to set something up. I'll make an attempt to demo the guitar and some of the patches I've made.
Nice one, thanks. :)
I just got a GK-3 internal kit. I'm excited! At first, I wanted to install it myself, but I think I should at least get an idea what it might cost to have someone do a better job of it.
I want it installed on a Strat-style guitar (Ibanez GiO).
So I'm asking for recommendations (or warnings), and price range, if you're willing to share what you paid. Feel free to send me private messages, or even e-mail me anonymously at my wirehippy address, if you'd rather not say it publicly. Confidentiality is assured. I won't repeat or share anything that you tell me not to share.
Questions:
1. Whom do you recommend (or recommend avoiding) in the Atlanta area?
2. How much did it cost?
Again, consider sending me a private message or e-mail to my gmail, if you'd rather not post an answer that would be on the Internet for years to come.
Thanks to all who replied. I had it installed by a pro.
I just got my guitar back from a local shop, Southeast Guitar Repair. Slaus Brown-Paul installed it for me, putting the knobs and switches where I wanted. I played the heck out of it last night and I'm quite happy with his work. He kept me informed, offered me options, and did a neat, clean install that's functioning well.
Good job, Slaus.
http://www.atlantaguitarrepair.com/
--moonie
This seems like the most relevent place to post without starting a new topic.
I am looking at picking up a reasonably cheap Epiphone Les Paul guitar which i want to mount an internal GK3 kit, but instead of using the supplied toggle switches for the S1/S1 and GK/PU select, want to make use of the existing 4 knobs.
One knob will do mag pickup volume along with the existing PU selector switch,
the other 3 knobs i want to use for,
1) GK volume
2) GK/Mag select
3)S1/S2
The first 2 are easy enough, i can instal a 3position rotary selector for the pickup selection, and the GK volume comes with the kit.
The S1/S2 may be a problem, because i want to use a 3 postion rotary, but with spring return to the center position, this will allow me to use the existing knobs and keep the guitar looking authentic.
QUESTION IS : Does anyone know of a 3 position momentary rotary switch with center return?? which may work for the S1/S2 switches.
I have been reversing the GK-3 pickup on install, and also reversing the wires inside the guitar. So, I can install the pickup backwards, and maintain full compatibility with earlier synths.
OK...I'll bite..
What does this mean? ???
Quote from: gumbo on March 17, 2011, 03:25:21 AM
OK...I'll bite..
What does this mean? ???
If you install the pickup rotated 180 degress from what Roland expected (so the cord between the pickup and the electronics box points down rather than up) then your pickup would be sending the six string signals in reverse order. For units that let you select "reverse pickup" this is not a problem. Some GR units do not have this option so a more compatible solution (when you rotate the pickup) is to open up the electronics box and reverse the order of the six string signals. This way you still send out the string signals in the traditional order and don't have to worry about whether or not the GR unit has a reverse pickup setting.
BTW: There is no soldering involved since the hex pickup uses a connector inside the electronics box. Using a very small screwdriver or even the tip of an X-acto knife the individual wires can be removed from the connector shell and moved.
QuoteBTW: There is no soldering involved since the hex pickup uses a connector inside the electronics box. Using a very small screwdriver or even the tip of an X-acto knife the individual wires can be removed from the connector shell and moved.
Details on rewiring the Roland GK Hex PU connector - to accomplish reverse mounting of the GK PU on your guitar is over here at this post:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3365.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3365.0)
Hi there!
I said a while ago1 that I was considering installing a GK Internal Kit on a James Tyler Variax, and that I would first give it a try on a Les Paul I had laying around. This weekend I had some spare time and decided to give it a go:
You can see a set in flickr with most of the process:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafaelrebolleda/sets/72157627270046857/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/rafaelrebolleda/sets/72157627270046857/)
I want to say thanks to Germanicus for inadvertently introducing me to the VG-99, Elantric for his videos of his own installation, and Fredo for inspiring me with his Les Paul installation.
---
[1] https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4242.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4242.0)
Looking good! Thank you for posting all the nice photos on Flicker with details of your work.
Let us know how it works, you got me curious...and inspired. I have an Antares hollow-bodied Les Paul I might try this on. I also like that Kahler tremolo on your Epi. Is that from the factory or did you do that too? Most LPs are sorely missing twang-bars, IMO.
I really want to hex-ify my pristine Parker Classic Fly, but I am terrified of damaging it in the process, especially since it's all original still. I want to use its piezos, but I haven't found schematics yet. If anyone has tips on this, I would appreciate it.
Thanks again for sharing, Raphael!
Thanks, tekrytor!
It's been working great so far. I'm fairly new to the whole V-Guitar universe, so I'm still trying to wrap my head around the VG-99 (I haven't even used for more than 2 hours!)
The Kahler bridge was installed almost 15 years ago. A small little piece broke and I also lost the original bar, so I retired this guitar a long, long time ago. However, just a few months ago I discovered Kahler was back in business and thanks to the almighty internet I could get many replacement parts.
Parker does some Hex stuff themselves; maybe it's easier to fit some of their own accessories.
Great looking Gk internal install!
FWIW - Most Kahler parts for all models are available thru Wammi World.
http://www.wammiworld.com/ (http://www.wammiworld.com/)
Swap the brass rollers for teflon-glass rollers for more sustain.
New Teflon/Glass string rollers for Kahlers. Incredible tone difference! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCoy0vLtBdo#)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5620.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5620.0)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darrenlock.com%2Fmt%2Farchives%2F2009%2F03%2F30%2Fepi2.jpg&hash=ab689b1e61d5078ce430ef90d98492afa313c153)
Indeed! That's where I've bought the parts. I just found about them fairly recently.
hi, very nice! where did you put the up/down buttons? I'm planning to put one in my epiphone too. And nice place to put the switch and the GK volume!
ah, I now saw it in Flickr.
did the guitar tone change after all the drilling?
and do you accidentally press the up/down button while playing? I was planning to put them in that place too!
Quote from: markcasq on August 10, 2011, 10:32:24 PM
did the guitar tone change after all the drilling?
To be honest, I wouldn't tell... This guitar has been out of use for many, many years. I have another Les Paul with body cavities and P-90s, so I can't compare either.
Quote from: markcasq on August 10, 2011, 10:32:24 PM
and do you accidentally press the up/down button while playing? I was planning to put them in that place too!
Not at all... I'd find that very difficult to happen. I think it's a great place to put the buttons. I like guitars to look natural no matter how many electronics they have, and in that place they're out of sight but within reach.
thanks, that's helpful!
I am thinking of doing the same thing in the next week or 2. Thanks for the pictures! Will def. help me out. About how long did it take you? How well is everything working for you?
I did the whole thing over a little longer than a weekend, but I spent a while thinking about the right approach or trying different things. Also, I didn't have mechanical tools for some jobs and had to do them by hand, which took a loooong time. Now that I have the experience, I think it could be done in a day with the right tools at hand.
One thing I might do in a different way is the drilling on the side of the guitar for the LED and GK Switches. I drilled three holes, one for each, but I think a better, more flexible approach would be to drill a band (like a straight, wide line on the side) that reaches the magnetic pup switch, and then cover that with a black plastic band in which you install the three elements. There'd be more room for cables and more flexibility after everything is soldered. I don't have the tools to do that, and maybe it's not something easy even with the right tools at hand, but I think that's been the only significant thought I've had on the whole installation.
Everything is working great from day 1. No issues whatsoever and I'm loving my rig more and more :)
Hello everyone:
I just received my super custom bass made by master luthier Pavel De La Fuente. In my specifications, I asked him to put on a GK-KIT-BG3 PU (it was his first installation of that kind. He normally installs Ghost Systems).
When I first tested the bass for the GK installation, the Synth worked normally in the Down position, but no MIX, and no Bass...
I called him (Pavel) regarding the matter, and we found out that he actually had an ON ON ON switch installed.
He then sent me the ON OFF ON switch that came with the system, and I had friend help me install it instead. We did the same wiring as on the diagram, and here were the results:
Note: the bass has its normal 1/4 out, but these are with just the 13-pin connector chord connected.
Down pos.: Synth works normally
Centre pos.: MIX of Synth/Bass works.
Up pos.: No bass sound at all...
Have you any had this kind of issue??? What can I do to solve it???
Thank you!!!
Roberto
What are you feeding?
If its a GR-55, you must program a user patch or patches that have the Normal PU sound enabled. Factory patches have the Normal PU disabled. (really dumb I know)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0)
Quote from: Elantric on October 11, 2011, 07:32:44 AM
What are you feeding?
If its a GR-55, you must program a user patch or patches that have the Normal PU sound enabled. Factory patches have the Normal PU disabled. (really dumb I know)
Yes, they are user patches, and the Normal PU is enabled. What could it be??
And thanks for replying Elantric... I'm in a hurry with this!!!
Follow the procedure here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0)
Be sure the GK kit wiring is correct too - schematics are here, use search.
Quote from: Elantric on October 11, 2011, 07:46:38 AM
Follow the procedure here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0)
WOWOWOWOWOWOW DONE!!!!
Never thought this was so easy to fix!! Thanks Elantric, you just saved my day!
Glad it worked.
All this and more is covered in the "GR-55 Top things to know" thread:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0)
Thank you. I'll be sure to check it next time.
I've mounted the GK2A kit in a Less Paul studio and I've used switched pots serve as gk switches. I had to alter the switches (taking off the locking pin) to use as pushbuttons. I have one volume and one tone pots used as GK switches and the other 2 used as gk/original pickups switch...
QuoteI've mounted the GK2A kit in a Less Paul studio and I've used switched pots serve as gk switches. I had to alter the switches (taking off the locking pin) to use as pushbuttons. I have one volume and one tone pots used as GK switches and the other 2 used as gk/original pickups switch...
Ive done the same thing!
i used Yamaha SG2000 / Noble push push pots and modified them to become push momentary S1, S2 switches and used these for an internal Les Paul install too
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2080.msg11736#msg11736 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2080.msg11736#msg11736)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FIMG_0550.jpg&hash=db42975126892a2d12f0809fa54d05d4057dda42)
I've used Long Shaft Push/Pull Pots pots like this one (or very similar...)
http://www.axesrus.com/Electronics/Pots/Alpha/LongShaftPushPull/LongShaftPushPullFrontSpec.jpg (http://www.axesrus.com/Electronics/Pots/Alpha/LongShaftPushPull/LongShaftPushPullFrontSpec.jpg)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.axesrus.com%2FElectronics%2FPots%2FAlpha%2FLongShaftPushPull%2FLongShaftPushPullFrontSpec.jpg&hash=d7402ef1ae083cb15598d49c0c2470de6f6886bf)
Hi, in the videos on this site, I saw that on most guitars, the builders did not replace the standard jack output with the 13-pin output. But they drilled a new hole beside the jack out.
Is this jack out still "active"?
The normal PUs from the guitar are routed to the 13-pin out. But are they also still routed to the normal jack as well?
So can I use such a guitar still like a normal guitar with a simple jack cable (of course without the gk possibilities)?
(Hope someone understands what I'm trying to ask...)
Yes, the standard setup is to leave the 1/4" jack functional, so the guitar can be used as a normal guitar.
Yup, what datsunrobbie said... :D
...can at least mean that you can still get through the rest of the gig when the smoke gets out of something with 'Roland' written on it..
BTW, FWIW, my 'new' small 13-pin jack will be on the market sometime fairly soon after Christmas, if anyone's running out of room to cut a $%#&ing big hole to accommodate the Roland one... PM me if you would like some pre-release information.. ...or a spot on the waiting list.. ;D
Merry Almost Christmas from summertime Oz!
gumbo
Hi all,
I've been using a Sustainiac pickup for a while now.
I installed it myself and I'm about to install the GK-3 internal
What does the battery connection do? Do I need to connect it?
I'm guessing that it grounds the mag pickup when the GK-3 only is in use
I've read other posts regarding GK-3 internal compatibility issues with the Sustainiac
Do I need to install the GTR/MIX/GK selector? One less switch to install ;)
Its not an assignable switch, just hardwired.
The signal path can be routed in the VG-99
I'm installing S1, S2 and the pot, all very useful
I already have a EV-5 expression pedal and external CTRL 3 and 4 so do I really need a FC-300?
I'll be able to see the VG-99 patch display and I'll assign everything else to the switches.
Comments please :)
* Take plenty of pics
* Locate the Sustainiac driver board far away from the internal GK-Kit board.
* The GK-Kit uses a special 1/4" switching jack - that switches the Normal guitar output signal to be re-routed to the 13 pin electronics when a 1/4" guitar cord is NOT plugged in.
* I used a TRS switching jack which had a built in DPDT switching jack (they used to sell these at Radio-Shack 12 years ago , but had to order last one from Mouser.com) - to turn on the Sustainiac when a 1/4" plug is inserted. As a result I must use a "dummy" 1/4" phone plug inserted into the jack to activate the sustainiac when i only use the 13pin cable.
* Its a nightmare of wires and extremely difficult to tame the random background zip and zing noises which occur due to adjacent radiated crosstalk from the sustainiac driver PC board - getting into the rest of the guitar's electronics.
* I used the Sustainiac Stealth neck driver - had to spend much time adjusting the metal load plate location on the driver pickup- to minimize noise.
If I had to do it over again - i wouldn't - it requires a lot of wood removal and can damage the tone of the guitar.
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2Ffrankenstrat.jpg&hash=7431cc9d6c5986e4ade1493642ff72f7192478b0)
Battery connection? The two GK-kits I installed have no battery, and I don't think my RR Strat has a battery either, although there is a cover that looks like a battery cover on the back. I never opened it, figured it was where they put the circuit board. On my most recent I replaced the s1/s2 switches with a single 3-way on-off-on toggle that automatically returns to center. I like it a lot better than the individual switches that come with the gk-kit. Also left out the led on the last one. Don't know if you can leave out the gk-mix-gtr switch - you certainly can leave it out, test it, and add it in if you do end up needing it.
There are several threads with lots of helpful information on GK installations, on this site and referenced in links to other sites. I recommend reading everything you can find before you start routing, then go over the whole thing again.
I've still got a Variax 300 that I bought solely to rip apart and transplant the electronics into my last strat. I ended up putting the Variax to the side for now, but someday...
The battery connection I refer to is on here
ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/productsupport/GK-KIT-GT3/01_GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf
Check out the wiring diagram on pg 4, half way down
'Buttery (*2) When the guitar incorporates a battery'
It must be for active pick ups, its not clear thats all
Didn't make sense at first..
I'll connect the 2 pin black and white to the output jack as per diagram
I'm not going to add the LED, but maybe add something later.
I need to check the available LED driver output current if anyone knows..
The selector switch I'll test
I'll stick to 2 separate switches for S1 and S2.
Nice idea with the centre rocker switch, but you have more flexibility with 2 switches.
The rocker is one or the other, but one mounting hole to drill.
Separate switches give one or the other and also BOTH together to assign in one patch, more flexible imho
Probs a can of worms kinda scenario, each to their own
The routing thing isn't a problem, its an old RGT42
I've already made a minor unintended modification to the body .. lol
As for tone, I'm using the VG-99 to compensate, its all digital to me anyway
Theres more money invested in the guts of the guitar, Sustainiac and GK-3 than the price I payed for the guitar 2nd hand on ebay
Btw, I'm ok with the wiring etc, I upgraded the standard Sustainiac wiring and added extra sheilded cable for the wiring runs, grounded at one end, and also surrounded the PCB in conductive tape, the stuff used to line pickup cavities, wrapped in insulation tape and grounded that cable too.
The Sustainiac PCB sits among the wiring, pots and cabling without problems, no cross talk or squealing. The Faraday cage for guitar mods.
I'm due to start on the mod soon, I'll keep you posted
Thanks
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FGK_INTERNAL_BATT.png&hash=a484be53615213dc2de0f5b671363e31527b6c87)
I see the suggested circuit now.
This essentially ties the negative side of the battery to the electrical Ground connection anytime a Mono 1/4" plug is inserted into the jack - which turns "on" the active electronics - in this case the Sustainiac.
In my experience, I found the sustainiac had high leakage current and batteries would drain. i finally solved the problem by using a different switching jack - one that could switch on/off the +9V battery supply to the sustainiac driver board.
Mid way through the install.
To clarify the diagram
ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/productsupport/GK-KIT-GT3/01_GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf
and the 'Wiring for Guitar Battery' section on pg 4
I quote
* This function is enabled only for the circuit being turned on/off with
the battery's negative terminal.
* This wiring is not necessary for guitars without internal batteries. <<< this is the bit that I question..!! Do I wire it or not?? Can I omit the 2 wire connection??
* This wiring is for switching the battery on and off; it is not used for
supplying power to the guitar.
* A current of 500 mA or less can be switched ON/OFF using
this circuit. Please use due caution; if current consumption exceeds
500 mA, this circuit cannot be used.
Thanks
QuoteMid way through the install.
To clarify the diagram
ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/productsupport/GK-KIT-GT3/01_GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf
and the 'Wiring for Guitar Battery' section on pg 4
I quote
* This function is enabled only for the circuit being turned on/off with
the battery's negative terminal.
* This wiring is not necessary for guitars without internal batteries. <<< this is the bit that I question..!! Do I wire it or not?? Can I omit the 2 wire connection??
* This wiring is for switching the battery on and off; it is not used for
supplying power to the guitar.
* A current of 500 mA or less can be switched ON/OFF using
this circuit. Please use due caution; if current consumption exceeds
500 mA, this circuit cannot be used.
Thanks
The GK pickup gets its power from the 13 pin cable.
Since you are installing this in a guitar with a Sustainiac - of course you will still use a 9V battery to power the sustainiac
i advise take note of this fact:
Quote
In my experience, I found the sustainiac had high leakage current and batteries would drain. i finally solved the problem by using a different switching jack - one that could switch on/off the +9V battery supply (and not the negative side of the battery Ground) to the sustainiac driver board.
Quote from: gumtown on January 27, 2020, 01:57:42 PM
Are you using the internal GK kit?
If so, has the active pickup auto switch been wired in correctly to your active pickup, so that it switches off when the GK is unplugged?
I never recommend using the GK-KIT-GT3 "FET POWER SWITCH" circuit - it has high leakage current in the OFF position and will drain internal batteries ( like the FLuence back pack ) much faster than using a traditional mechanical on/off switch
Check the diagram... You need a Buttery actually. Hard to get them but they are yummy! ;D
Joke aside, this is a worthy endevour. Keep at it and you will have one amazing guitar!
Update...
GK-3 installed and set up as per instructions
Tuner shows all 6 strings active
I've set the scale length, pick up distances.
2 problems.
The normal standard tuning patches work ok, COSM patches, guitar types, nylon strings, synth stuff etc, but any altered tunings will alter E, B, G and D strings ok.
The A and E give really bad signals. The GK-3 is installed upside down, so I tried reversing the selection to both reverse and normal. Still a problem. I've tried the pick up height, radius and input level. No change. I've read that a brand new 13 pin cable may oxidise, so I'll try to clean it later, I'm working at the mo. Is there a string sensitivity setting per patch for the altered tuning patches?
If I turn off the GK-3 in the VG-99 menu the sound output stops, this tells me that the pick up is working ok.
The tuner shows all 6 strings having signal.
So why do some patches work and others, especially altered tunings not?
Now the second problem is the GK-3/Mix/Guitar selector switch.
The standard guitar cable jack is not connected, I used the 13 pin connection only.
With the 13 pin in, the 'volume' button for the GK-3 works, the guitar volume does nothing (as expected) but there is only sound output with the selector switch in GK-3 or Mix selection, when Guitar only is selected the output sound goes off.
With the 13 pin in and the 'volume' button for the GK-3 is down, when I turn off the GK-3 in the VG-99 menu, when the selector is in Guitar, the guitar pick up works with the normal guitar volume.
This tell me that the guitar input connection to the PCB is ok
Have I missed something?
Btw, the S1 and S2 both work. The sustainer works when I plug in a standard guitar cable unto the 1/4'' jack.
Found the volume problem on the forum ie pick up mix level per patch.
I'll check out the reverse option on the gk-3 again..
HI all, when i use my GK3 , i always use the 13 pins cable for vg99/55 and a normal cable for my guitar pickup sound because i find that the integrated buffer in the gk3 don't do good things to my guitar sound.
i want to mound a internal gkkit and was thinking : is there a way to my normal guitar signal to be connected AFTER this "buffer" , then i could use only ONE cable (the 13 pin one) for synth (vg99 etc) and normal guitar signal , but without "alteration" (even on acoustics, i don't like this buffer !)
any idea if it would work ? i bring my guitar tomorrow to be modified with gk kit ...
thanks
There isn't a simple way. If pin 7 on the connector was isolated from the circuit, the guitar signal would connect directly to it. That is a very delicate, but not impossible thing to do. It comes down to your ability to do something on that small of a scale.
Here is a question does the piezo makers use the same type of filter? May bee you should go in a different direction...just a thought. I plan to save up and put a ghost system in my Les Paul.
I suspect the internal kit has the same "feature" as the other Roland pickups - when you switch from Mix to Guitar, the VG-99 sends out MIDI CC#7 0. When you switch from Guitar to Mix, it sends out CC#7 127.
The VG-99 is using these CC messages to switch the COSM guitar off (when you select Guitar) and on (when you select Mix), but if you have other MIDI gear attached that also respond to MIDI CC messages (like Apple's Mainstage.....) you may encounter some interesting effects...
Rafael, thanks for this inspiration, I have installed a GK on a Les Paul following some of your designs.
Elantric, thanks for suggesting the DigiKey 3-way switch. It looks better than the stock 3-way switch from the GK-KIT.
Here it is:
I bought an Epiphone Les Paul Plus Top FX/PRO, just for the purpose of installing the GK KIT
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-eSF5LTnTajk/T2sP1q-1fwI/AAAAAAAAJqU/0JAMEzAVSCk/s720/P1000138.JPG)
I converted the LP to one volume and one tone, and I installed the GK volume and GK-guitar selector switch to the other holes.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tm6hf08fXeo/T2sQVosR-MI/AAAAAAAAJqk/iQ-sorxk5VI/s720/P1000151.JPG)
GK pickup installed in reverse
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gOfQknpukjM/T2sQpzaBj2I/AAAAAAAAJqs/hNPb5t-FT0A/s720/P1000147.JPG)
Installed the S1/S2 switch near the pickup selector similar to Rafael's Les Paul.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-V6SiZsr9nJE/T2sQuI2UGEI/AAAAAAAAJq0/7stVvEi2wHg/s720/P1000150.JPG)
And I installed the GK LED at the back. I didn't want to put LED since Les Paul looks classic (except for the Floyd), plus I don't want to drill an extra hole on the top.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-B3RfPyISYEg/T2sQyIlVzbI/AAAAAAAAJq8/fpZlslgmjbc/s720/P1000154.JPG)
Great job! Super neat finish, as far as I can see :)
Didn't know about LPs with Floyd Rose bridges!
Hey all.
I'm getting ready to do an internal GK 3 installation on one of my guitars. For aesthetic purposes, I've chosen to change out the 3 position switch that ships with the kit ( the GK / BOTH / GUITAR switch) for a 3 position strat/tele style lever switch. Does anyone know how to wire this correctly to the GK 3 summing board? The instructions that shipped with the kit don't really clarify the purpose of each wire. So, I'm at a loss as to how I should wire it to the strat/tele style switch.
If anyone had a diagram of some kind for wiring a strat style 3 position switch to the GK 3 summing board, I would be set.
Thanks in advance!
Your best bet is to try using a multimeter to check how the Roland switch terminals interact in each switch position.
The fender-style switch is a simple A / A+B(in parallel) / B switch. Unless the Roland switch works the same way, you would have to find something other than the Fender switch.
If you are putting it on a guitar with enough knobs, you may want to consider not using the switch at all: I like one knob for Normal volume, and one knob for GK volume.
Quote from: rafaelrebolleda on March 27, 2012, 11:33:46 AM
Great job! Super neat finish, as far as I can see :)
Didn't know about LPs with Floyd Rose bridges!
Thanks! Yup, as far as you can see :) I had an incorrect drill hole to the left of the guitar input jack, if you look closer in the picture (it looks like a dent, but it is a hole). I initially planned to put the GK jack there, but it would strain the cable a lot, so I ended drilling the final hole to the right of the guitar jack. And if you remove the GK input, you will see a big mess, haha ;D.
And thanks, your LP build served as my reference.
Yup, there is one Epi with floyd, and it is the PRO/FX. http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Epiphone/Les-Paul-PlusTop-PRO-FX.aspx (http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Epiphone/Les-Paul-PlusTop-PRO-FX.aspx)
Just got a gk kit used, and realized it may be a gk2 kit since the radius is not adjustable..is there a gk3 kit ? Is it what they call gk-kit-gt3 on online stores though they use the older picture of a gk2 pickup?
Also would like some advice on mounting the s1/s2 switches on a pickguard , there're grooves on the switch but no nut to secure it? or do i need to source out the right size myself? I kinda like the push/push switch so i'm sticking with those black buttons..thanks!
Quote from: teleholic on May 18, 2012, 03:20:16 AM
Just got a gk kit used, and realized it may be a gk2 kit since the radius is not adjustable..is there a gk3 kit ? Is it what they call gk-kit-gt3 on online stores though they use the older picture of a gk2 pickup?
Also would like some advice on mounting the s1/s2 switches on a pickguard , there're grooves on the switch but no nut to secure it? or do i need to source out the right size myself? I kinda like the push/push switch so i'm sticking with those black buttons..thanks!
(Question) one: Yes
(Question) two: Probably yes...
(Question) three: Yep...no nut....they will 'clip' into the correct sized hole (15mm diameter) in normal-thickness pickguard material (3.1mm / 1/8" )
(Question) four: refer above
(Comment) five: I agree with you wholeheartedly.! ;D ....although you can (if you find it easier) substitute one (momentary)on-off-(momentary)on 3-position toggle switch for both buttons... it will equal S1 in one direction, S2 in the other direction.
(my) comment: download the owner's manual for the kit from the Roland site...you will see all the details there...if you still can't work it out, get back to us here..
HTH
Cheers from Oz
hi gumbo, thanks for the quick reply! I do have the manual, but not much details about how to mount the push switches..thanks for making it clearer!
Hi T-h...
Yeah, just re-read a copy of the 'manual'...it doesn't really say anything about the S1/S2 installation..
...all I can say is that I do know the switches will install that way because I've done it.. :D
...hope I didn't sound too much of a sm@rt@ss the first time.. ::)
Plenty of people here have fitted these kits, so don't ever be worried about asking any questions!
Good luck with all of it..let us know how you get on.
Cheers from Here
Gumbo
Anyone installed one on a Ibanez RG (i have 2 RG Prestige's (RG1570 and RG2610) and want to install the kit on
one of them, just want to see how any one else has fitted them and any problems they might of come across
Cheers
Here's a thread on fitting a GT3 (internal kit) including an Ibanez RG870. I don't know how similar the internal cavities are with our Ibanez models.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5872.msg40218#msg40218 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5872.msg40218#msg40218)
I'm in the middle of doing the installation on an RG870 and have got to the stage where I need to rout the opening for the plate to take the 13 pin socket and the standard output jack. Haven't quite plucked up the courage to actually switch the router on yet but it's on my list of things to do today. I've been photographing the process and once I've completed the job I'l will a link to my blog which will have a full description of the steps I've been through.
Myself - on my next internal install, I'm very tempted to install a small DIN 13 pin female jack like this:
http://www.hamradioexpress.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=706 (http://www.hamradioexpress.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=706)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hamradioexpress.com%2Fcatalog%2Fimages%2F13pdcmj.jpg&hash=45ec8886d1cb050e818c6e945a9a931e32d9bc93)
Inside a modified Strat Jack Plate attached to the rear control plate cover.
I finally completed my Ibanez RG870 pickup install. I've added a page to my blog which describes the whole process - http://highlandsrock.blogspot.co.uk/p/fitting-gt3-kit-to-ibanez-rg870.html (http://highlandsrock.blogspot.co.uk/p/fitting-gt3-kit-to-ibanez-rg870.html). (The text is a bit wordy but I'm off work at present so it gives me something to do!)
Here's what the final guitar looks like....
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8151%2F7394517424_bf0bc993b0.jpg&hash=d61658cb986338da85a9c029b416c631889c1372)
It turns out that the RG870 is a really well suited to having the pickup fitted. The only thing I now need to learn is how to drill a hole through the paint finish without getting chipping around the edges. Any suggestions gratefully received.
Excellent work!!
Very clean nice looking install!
use a forstner or brad point drill bit
Quote from: whippinpost91850 on June 18, 2012, 10:58:37 AM
use a forstner or brad point drill bit
...absolutely!
...and cover the surface with masking tape first.. ;)
slightly off topic here: Strats are great and all and if you're going to embed your technology into an axe then its probably the one to do it with. I just wish Roland would release a G-5 KIT that I could install into whatever guitar I want. That would bring the COSM instrument modeling and tuning into any guitar processor or amp without fronting it with the VG first.
QuoteI just wish Roland would release a G-5 KIT that I could install into whatever guitar I want.
Whats wrong with the GK-KIT-GT3 ??
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcms.rolandus.com%2Fassets%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fgallery%2Fgk_kit_gt3_parts_gal.jpg&hash=420fb41c4b9e4c0102a4a0a8b816c0dd33797e32)
Folks install those all the time into any guitar
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=235 (http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=235)
see this post for examples of non strat =s with internal Roland GK Kits
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=359.msg42968#msg42968 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=359.msg42968#msg42968)
In order to access any cosm or tuning processing it must be connected to supported outboard gear like VG, GR. I installed one in my Ibanez that I love.
However, the ability to have "onboard" cosm modeling and tuning allows you to plug directly into non 13 pin gear and reap those benefits. i.e. plug into pedals, or other processors like kemper, eleven rack, axe fx, even directly into a nice boutique amp. This....would be fantastic! Unfortunately the installation of a G-5 kit would be very complex for the majority of anyone as the real estate required for all the hardware is difficult to come by. Especially in guitars with floyd rose systems. Probably a piece of cake in a Gibson Explorer of course as long as you own a router. Roland would need to then provide you with a template and cavity cover for the pcb board accoridingly. lol
QuoteHowever, the ability to have "onboard" cosm modeling and tuning allows you to plug directly into non 13 pin gear and reap those benefits.
I accomplish what you seek in this manner
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FJTV%2520Variax%2FP1000135.jpg&hash=a652e1ce7011ee1ff894c6bd32a52efe0c8181d3)
What you are looking for sounds like what the Variax users always wanted. Many of them wound up buying a cheap Variax simply for its 'guts' that they could transplant into their preferred guitar. Obviously this is an expensive option.
Quote from: Elantric on July 10, 2012, 09:10:00 AM
I accomplish what you seek in this manner
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FJTV%2520Variax%2FP1000135.jpg&hash=a652e1ce7011ee1ff894c6bd32a52efe0c8181d3)
How do you accomplish this?
What I seek to accomplish is essentially what kmaus10 is refering to but "hacked"
I'd be interested in either a Roland or a Line6 authorized installation kit.
My point is I have a guitar with onboard DSP processing for Modelled guitar tones
AND i have access to 13 pin gear with one instrument
With the benfit that (unlike the Roland G-5) I can tweak all my DSP modelled guitar tones using a PC/Mac
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.long-mcquade.com%2Ffiles%2F4015%2Flg_Variax%2BWorkbench.jpg&hash=59ede7374801a5f300a2aaa2f9671c8176886e25)
Or you can use the 13 pin guitar you have now and use one of these
http://www.amazon.com/RackVax-RVX-100E-Electric/dp/B004XK4NRY (http://www.amazon.com/RackVax-RVX-100E-Electric/dp/B004XK4NRY)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F616z94gWyYL._AA1356_.jpg&hash=846e5f3689560fc6fa070e2e3d04ccb797739ea8)
Well,
- I like the fact that I can just plug my AKG guitar bug wireless into the Roland G-5 strat but I'm not a strat kinda guy....maybe I need to try and convert.
- I just love the sleekness and descreetness of a hidden kit.
Currently, the GK-Kit is tucked away quiet nicely on my black Ibanez. As a matter of fact I have a GK external on my other black Ibanez and its slightly camoflaged. For me, I'm just not a fan of robotic looking guitars. I grew up in the 80's where you either played "normal" guitar or midi guitar. Midi guitar was only supposed to be donned by jazz/fusion players and guitar geeks, not rock/metal players. I've been contemplating the rack vax idea as well its just that all these options still require a 13 pin interface cable and more money spent. Maybe I just need to give up on all this nonsense. Over the weekend I was thinking, you know, my GR-55 really is a fantastic "bang-for-the-buck" processor which I should be so lucky to have in the first place. Why are we always on this quest for "better" and never satisfied?
Straying into ground covered in another thread, if they could put out a DIY kit that combines GK3-Kit with the DSP processing from the G-5 they'd be getting close. Add programmability to the DSP and we have a winner :)
12 hole or 6 hole? Does anyone know for certain?
I've seen both type (12 hole or 6 hole ) used on GK-3 internal and External.
I believe its a random issue. Its known that Roland relies on several different subcontract OEM suppliers in Asia to fabricate these pickups.
My theory is
OEM supplier #1 supplies the 12 hole pickups.
OEM supplier #2 supplies the 6 hole pickups.
Seems most all recent manufactured GK-3 pickups are all 6 hole type. Does not matter if it's External GK-3 or Internal GK-KIT-GT3
Maybe we should have a GK-3 poll and Role call - where folks can report what type GK-3 PU they have (12 hole or 6 Hole ) and what type GK PU it was supplied ( External GK-3 or Internal GK-KIT-GT3 )
(and perhaps the year they believe their GK-3 pickup was manufactured.
===
I do recall that some GK-3 pickups do have 12 holes - see here:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FVG-99%2Fph-19.jpg&hash=e18ab487c2162bbbff69c8ec21a8517254d0d9ca)
GK-3 with Six Hole Yoke
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FGK-3_PU_DIM.jpg&hash=5982b4057f3c9170ac0c5f96e2e2c9bf04cb29ed)
GK-3 with Twelve Hole Yoke
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roland.com%2Fproducts%2Fen%2FGK-3%2Fimages%2Fgk-3-size.jpg&hash=8f97bf2060f0186d2df621c808117888733d2c78)
Yes -the GK-3 with twelve hole Yoke version is not as tall as the 6 hole yoke version (its 0.6mm lower height) - might help those with tight clearances.
Does it make any difference to the performance whether they are 6 or 12 hole?
Size matters... ;-)
The 12 hole is a bit shorter and fits under the strings on my guitar, but the
6 hole doesn't. I would need to adjust the neck angle to make the 6 hole fit.
I need to find a 12 hole internal pickup.
If anyone has an internal GK3 12 hole pickup or even a GK2
internal pickup they'd be willing to trade for a GK3 6 hole
internal, please let me know...
Ideally I'm looking for something in pretty good shape
as the 6 hole is brand new.
Anybody want to trade, or know of a source for the 12 hole GK3 internal OR a GK2A internal?
Must search Ebay for used GK-3 pickups with 12 holes.
My research indicates the 12 hole versions with lower profile seem to have been the first GK-3 PU versions built between 1998- 2005
After 2006, they are all 6 hole type, and taller.
I have a sterling axis and the GK3 internal kit...I want to install this.
Anyone have info/experience with a Axis? What should i look for in the body in terms of room needed, hole cuts?
Quick update....
I grabbed an external GK2A I had laying around, took the pickup off, opened it up, moved the wiring to the bottom
and reassembled it. Low and behold, I have an internal GK2A (12 hole, lower profile) hex mag pickup.I just need to
get a small piece of plastic/tape to cover up the top hole where the cable previously came out. Roland has that small
piece of plastic/tape that has their logo on it. I'll figure something out for it.
This was a little tedious, but overall not that hard.
Pics from my Torero install may give you an idea of sizes ... http://neophytte.mine.nu/photo/2011-09-28-PRS_Torero_add_Roland_GK-Kit-GT3/ (http://neophytte.mine.nu/photo/2011-09-28-PRS_Torero_add_Roland_GK-Kit-GT3/)
HTH!
Richard
Quote from: neophytte on July 19, 2012, 12:22:17 AM
Pics from my Torero install may give you an idea of sizes ... http://neophytte.mine.nu/photo/2011-09-28-PRS_Torero_add_Roland_GK-Kit-GT3/ (http://neophytte.mine.nu/photo/2011-09-28-PRS_Torero_add_Roland_GK-Kit-GT3/)
HTH!
Richard
My space is limited compared to yours in the rear but you did validate my wanting to swap out the switches like you did...I like how you eliminated one and they seem smaller, not sure about the holes you had to drill for them? I also like that alternate plate you used. My guitar jack is chrome as well so your idea would be perfect for mine.
Also, I see your floyd is recessed. I've got mixed opinions on this forum as to using recessed with the GK3, I'm assuming you don't have issues with it?
Did you have a pic you can upload of the back?
Thanks
Richard
Here are a couple pics....the main circuit board actually JUST fits in the pocket there...my question would be is there enough room
for the extra switches too?
I'm not opposed to cutting a hold for the board but obviously would like to avoid if possible.
Hmm, yea, that looks as though it's going to be tight ... when you say it just fits - where are you placing the board? mine kinda 'floats' on top of the rest of the circuit ... I found the biggest space taker was the wires provided with the kit, so you may want to think about some was to chop them down a bit (for example, having more of the pickup wire in the pickup cavity, trimming the switch wires, etc).
As long as you keep the main circuit board 'up', the switches will probably be the least of your problem ... BTW, search around the forum - I've seen people mounting the switches in more unusual places, which may suit you ...
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fneophytte.mine.nu%2Fphoto%2F2011-09-28-PRS_Torero_add_Roland_GK-Kit-GT3%2Fimages%2FPRS_Torero_add_Roland_GK-Kit-GT3-045.jpg&hash=3f73a663537394d45f42798ccb1e215943ed842e)
Cheers
Richard
Yeah, it sits on top of the wires when I put it in there. I could trim the wires down. I think it could work if I find some smaller switches to take up less real estate inside. Heck, it would probably work with the stock switches that come with the GK3, just they are ugly and unnecessary to use all of them.
Yep, I don't particularly like the stick S1/S2 switches, but others do ... personal choice I guess :)
Keep us updated with your build ...
Cheers
Richard
I hate the stock Roland Pinball Game Flipper buttons they use for S1 S2
Instead use a small (on)- off - (on) momentary bat handle switch
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3921.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3921.0)
Neophytte, I looked at your install pics, nice job. What intrigued me was the Dragon decal you put on the fret board. What type of decal is this, were do you get them, and how has it held up to the use of fingers and strings grinding on it?
Quote from: Elantric on July 20, 2012, 07:56:28 AM
I hate the stock Roland Pinball Game Flipper buttons they use for S1 S2
Instead use a small (on)- off - (on) momentary bat handle switch
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3921.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3921.0)
Following the Roland manual to install this, does the stock input jack become disabled?
Quote from: Mrchevy on July 21, 2012, 05:10:10 AM
Neophytte, I looked at your install pics, nice job. What intrigued me was the Dragon decal you put on the fret board. What type of decal is this, were do you get them, and how has it held up to the use of fingers and strings grinding on it?
Thanks - I've also used these decals on my bass http://neophytte.mine.nu/photo/2011-10-04-Hohner/ (http://neophytte.mine.nu/photo/2011-10-04-Hohner/), and they seem to hold up well - made of PET, check the details at this website: http://www.inlaysticker.com/ (http://www.inlaysticker.com/)
HTH!
Cheers
Richard
So I've just completed installing an internal GK3 into a strat with a recessed floyd. Everything works but I'm running into a possible problem. I have no issues with the distance between the pickup and the bridge. My issue is adjusting the action. I installed the pu w/o the springs and I'm still having issues getting the action low enough. If I raise the trem posts to get the strongs from touching the pu the action is too high, if I lower them the strings touch the pu. This strat is a older cheaper model so i'm not too worried about looks right now just functionality. My quick thought is that I'm going to have to cut a space in the pickguard for the roland pu to sit in. There seems to be some height from the pickguard that adds to this issue.
Any other ideas? Please spare me from the "i don't like floyd's" type comments.
Raise the posts so the action is too high, then shim the neck to get the action back where you want it. It's fairly easy, though time consuming. Loosen strings, loosen neck, insert shim, tighten neck, tune to pitch. Repeat until it all lines up. Search the forum for "shim" for more references.
Quote from: datsunrobbie on July 23, 2012, 02:00:07 PM
Raise the posts so the action is too high, then shim the neck to get the action back where you want it. It's fairly easy, though time consuming. Loosen strings, loosen neck, insert shim, tighten neck, tune to pitch. Repeat until it all lines up. Search the forum for "shim" for more references.
Thanks, I actually thought of that while researching more....got nervous and overlooked the obvious
What I did is lower the strings slowly on each side until the fretted notes at the 24th fret were still providing clearance for the sting to vibrate and not touching the top of the GK3.
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmadsound.dyndns.org%2Fvg99%2Fpics%2Fgk3mountrear.JPG&hash=24a187489da74c55cabd56783808a59cee143fb7)
Eventually I'll do an internal kit on that guitar I think but I'll see if I can't get a better picture for this...
Quote from: aliensporebomb on July 23, 2012, 02:33:15 PM
What I did is lower the strings slowly on each side until the fretted notes at the 24th fret were still providing clearance for the sting to vibrate and not touching the top of the GK3.
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmadsound.dyndns.org%2Fvg99%2Fpics%2Fgk3mountrear.JPG&hash=24a187489da74c55cabd56783808a59cee143fb7)
Eventually I'll do an internal kit on that guitar I think but I'll see if I can't get a better picture for this...
That is what I tried to do but the action is still way too high...even higher than the fender specs so a labor/time consuming neck shim seems like my future tonight.
Its not as time consuming on a Floyd as with others. DO NOT DETUNE and RETUNE. Instead, remove even the trem springs while tuned to pitch and locked at the nut. The trem will bow forward enough to pop the bridge over the pivot posts with carefully coaxing. At that point, take the neck off with the bridge attached via the strings.
Hold the neck in the pocket and jse a straight edge down the fretboard to judge the relative angle and height over the body at the GK pup. Add a business card cut to fit the front 1/3 of the neck pocket. Re- test to see how much the straight edge raised. Add shim as needed.
Reassemble by bolting on the neck, popping the trem over the posts and installing the springs. The guitar will be at pitch or very close (may change due to the shim) . That's the beauty of a Floyd.
bd
Quote from: musicman65 on July 23, 2012, 04:35:35 PM
Its not as time consuming on a Floyd as with others. DO NOT DETUNE and RETUNE. Instead, remove even the trem springs while tuned to pitch and locked at the nut. The trem will bow forward enough to pop the bridge over the pivot posts with carefully coaxing. At that point, take the neck off with the bridge attached via the strings.
Hold the neck in the pocket and jse a straight edge down the fretboard to judge the relative angle and height over the body at the GK pup. Add a business card cut to fit the front 1/3 of the neck pocket. Re- test to see how much the straight edge raised. Add shim as needed.
Reassemble by bolting on the neck, popping the trem over the posts and installing the springs. The guitar will be at pitch or very close (may change due to the shim) . That's the beauty of a Floyd.
bd
I like this idea....has to be a little difficult to get the springs out?
Place the guitar on your lap pups down with pressure on the bridge with your thigh to raise the pitch if setup to float. Use needle nosed pliers to grasp the springs at the point where they meet the block. Grasp tightly and pull out. The pliers will move as the springs comes free so be ready.... No big deal.
To reinstall, on your laptop again, aim the trem arm backwards (away from the neck) and use it to tension the strings to pitch with your thigh. Hook the block first and drop the ring end over the cleat using the same pliers.
bd
Quote from: musicman65 on July 23, 2012, 05:54:38 PM
Place the guitar on your lap pups down with pressure on the bridge with your thigh to raise the pitch if setup to float. Use needle nosed pliers to grasp the springs at the point where they meet the block. Grasp tightly and pull out. The pliers will move as the springs comes free so be ready.... No big deal.
To reinstall, on your laptop again, aim the trem arm backwards (away from the neck) and use it to tension the strings to pitch with your thigh. Hook the block first and drop the ring end over the cleat using the same pliers.
bd
Love this way! Gonna try in a bit...can you assume whatever in mm your off on the action, is that how much you need to add to the shim or is there no correlation?
There is a relationship but it is unknown. I would estimate 3 to 4 times the deflection of the shim at the bridge. It's simply trigonometry....the ratio of neckpocket length vs length from heel to bridge. Use the straight edge, measure with no shim, then with shim. You'll be able to hold the neck in the pocket unstrung to get an idea. The straight edge will be lower than your strings since the neck is not under tension. Add shims to get the mm difference you need.
bd
I just wanted to confirm with the experts here, but it appears that the GK2A internal won't support
battery switching for guitars with active pickup/piezo systems. Is this true? Is there any work-around
other than get a GK3 internal board?
Battery switching? What do you mean support battery switching?
QuoteI just wanted to confirm with the experts here, but it appears that the GK2A internal won't support
battery switching for guitars with active pickup/piezo systems. Is this true? Is there any work-around
other than get a GK3 internal board?
Often you must think outside the box and supply your own "Switching jack" - to accommodate your specific needs
On my frankenstrat with internal GK-2A kit, I have a 1/4" TRS stereo output jack with several Switching elements that connect / disconnect two internal 9 volt batteries (One for Sustainiac, One for LR Baggs Piezo preamp)
BTW - I would use this same Switching Jack arrangement on any 13 pin preamp (GK-2A, GK-3, Ghost, RMC, etc) and then use a Dummy 1/4" Phone jack inserted into this jack to "turn on" the internal 9V batteries when I'm only using the 13 pin cable.
Here's the jack I used:
http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/1_4__Stereo_Jacks.html (http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/1_4__Stereo_Jacks.html)
http://www.orvac.com/showitem.aspx?&id=104765&name=1%2F4%22%20Stereo%20Jack%2C%20Panel%20Mount%2C%20N%2FO%20%26%20N%2FC (http://www.orvac.com/showitem.aspx?&id=104765&name=1%2F4%22%20Stereo%20Jack%2C%20Panel%20Mount%2C%20N%2FO%20%26%20N%2FC)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.minute-man.com%2Facatalog%2FCALRAD30-385.jpg&hash=d4c70a045ef4b0a953c01bf1717268a39378acc4)
Chassis Mount 1/4" Jack
With 2 Isolated Switches
Stereo - Calrad 30-385
This chassis mounted 1/4" stereo phone jack has two isolated switches inside. The switches are totally isolated from the phone plug connections. Each SPDT switch has a common and a normally closed and normally open set of contacts.
Conductors: 3 (Stereo)
Terminals: 9 Solder type
Hole Diameter: Aproximately 0.360"
Maximum Panel Thickness: 1/8"
Switch: Two isolated single pole double throw switches
Terminals: Solder (9 total)
Priced per piece
Price: $2.94 The circuit on this jack is identical the "C" below:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F8%2F88%2FPhone_jack_symbols.png&hash=bb8a2ed6095f3803c3276ddb283622410f2ebd3a)
I am not aware that the internal GK3-Kit supports supply switching for active guitars..
The GK supply on the common ground and +7 volt terminals might have enough oomph to supply your active pickups (although not recommended), but as Elantric has suggested, use the normal pickup jack's switch to enable the active pickups, using just a dummy jack plug.
Quotebut as Elantric has suggested, use the normal pickup jack's switch to enable the active pickups, using just a dummy jack plug.
Correct -
80% of the time I play my Frankenstrat into normal FX and amps, but when I use a 13 pin cable to feed VG-99 / GR-55 - I do use a dummy 1/4 plug inserted into the normal 1/4" output jack to turn on the two 9V batteries.
Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks. To be clear, the GK3 has an additional connection not found on the GK2A board. It provides battery switching WITHOUT a dummy plug. I was hoping to avoid the dummy plug route. I understand how to use a switching jack. Since I'm using a 13 pin into the GR55 I didn't want to have to make any other connections, even a dummy plug.
1. When you install the internal GK3 pickup, does it disable your standard guitar jack? I know that you can toggle between the 3 different sound options but that is still through the GK3 pickup.
2. I saw a used GK3 pickup yesterday as is for $60...just basically the brain part that you stick on your body, and the magnetic pu part. Assuming the unit "works", can this unit be converted to a internal kit? I know I'd have to buy some pots, switches, etc.
These are two projects I have 'looked into' but not yet tried, I have a GK-Kit and GK-3 waiting to be installed,
but here is my 2c..
Quote from: greekjgg on August 01, 2012, 03:23:50 AM
1. When you install the internal GK3 pickup, does it disable your standard guitar jack? I know that you can toggle between the 3 different sound options but that is still through the GK3 pickup.
No, it still works as normal, I see the internal kit can also connect the battery for active guitars with the presense of GK voltage ( when plugged into a VG/GR).
You can have both normal pickup via the GK cable and from your guitar jack.
Quote from: greekjgg on August 01, 2012, 03:23:50 AM
2. I saw a used GK3 pickup yesterday as is for $60...just basically the brain part that you stick on your body, and the magnetic pu part. Assuming the unit "works", can this unit be converted to a internal kit? I know I'd have to buy some pots, switches, etc.
If you are determined, yes.
Some points to concider are..
the GK pickup connector cable comes out the end of the pickup body, where the kit version exits down through the back into guitar body.
the GK 13-pin socket will be difficult, either having to remove it from the circuit board or routing out the back corner of the guitar body if leaving the GK 13-pin connector on the circuit board.
a double poll - double throw (dpdt) on-off-on toggle switch needed for the synth/mix/guitar selector required and the GK slider switch removed from the circuit board.
I seem to always use the mix position only, so my preference would be to remove the slider switch and solder links to the mix position and not bother with an extra switch on the guitar.
S1/S2 buttons removed (optional) and either two push-buttons or a spring centered toggle switch required.
remove jack input socket and wire to guitar pickup jack, there is no battery switching like in the gK kit, but if you have an active guitar, a dummy jack plug can be used to switch on the guitar normal pickup active circuit if the jack is otherwise unused.
Answer to all these questions are in the Mag Hex PU section here - have a look
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=11.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=11.0)
On my Roland Ready strat the little nut that keeps the tiny 3 position switch in place is rather loose. I notice that if I tighten it too much or loosen it too much the patch up/down buttons don't function.
I'd rather have it tight so it doesnt move around but then the buttons don't function.
But if it's loose it tends to loosen too much and stops working again.
Seems like there's a sweet spot. Ideas? This is the Roland Ready Strat with GK2A.
Those switches do wear out over time.
But be sure the hardware is positioned correctly on the mini toggle switch.
When installing mini toggles, I always verify the stack up of hardware on the threaded bushing on the mini toggle switch is :
Internal Nut ( this is threaded onto the switch bushing first) > star washer > Pickguard > external flat washer > external Nut
If things deviate from this sequence, the torque that occurs when the external nut is tightened might inadvertently be directly applied to the press fit metal base on top of the switch body of the internal mini toggle switch - and thats not good, and will lead to pre-mature failure of the switch.
But these switches are readily available from Alco, C&K, NKK, and countless copies.
Easily replaced - its a standard Item. Call Roland if you want the original, or use any Center Off DPDT switch to replace the Roland Ready Strat "Guitar / Mix / Synth" three way switch.
http://www.amazon.com/DPDT-CENTER-MINIATURE-TOGGLE-SWITCH/dp/B006LU3M1C/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1347689349&sr=8-3&keywords=Toggle+Switch+DPDT+Center+Off (http://www.amazon.com/DPDT-CENTER-MINIATURE-TOGGLE-SWITCH/dp/B006LU3M1C/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1347689349&sr=8-3&keywords=Toggle+Switch+DPDT+Center+Off)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F41WxTsjVZXL._SL500_AA300_.jpg&hash=51c8bf548e4e0b91658adc2d10ef9a23bf19ee23)
Consult this doc for wiring - but its always best to take pictures of the your work BEFORE you start repairs / or start soldering - to be sure the replacement part gets connected exactly like the old part.
ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/ProductSupport/GK-KIT-GT3/01_GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf (http://ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/ProductSupport/GK-KIT-GT3/01_GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf)
Let me clarify first though: the three position switch does still function correctly - I can switch from mag/both/synth and it works fine.
Somehow the positioning of that switch seemed to have an effect on patch up/down.
This may be coincidence. I have not yet taken the pickguard off the guitar to see what's underneath.
As an aside I also tested my other GK guitar to verify the up/down buttons work there since I saw a thread at another site where someone had the same problem and it was a problem with their 13-pin cable.
In my case my other guitar works fine.
On many Roland Ready Strats, the wiring is such that if the 3 way switch gets loose, and it inadvertently rotates away from the factory installed position, internal electrical shorts may occur due to the 3 way switch contacts touching internal electrical connections things it shouldn't.
But back to your topic, if the S1 and S2 buttons stop operating when the 3 way Guitar / mix / Synth switch gets loose, its probably because you have an internal cold solder joint on the Ground Wire which runs between all three switches.
If it was my guitar, Id gently remove the pick guard, take pictures, assuming you know how to solder, gently reheat each switch to wire solder joint, apply new solder (Kester 60/40) where needed. and test then re-assemble.
I posted some pictures but I brought the guitar out into bright daylight and see the problem:
The increment/decrement switch has what looks like four poles.
The top two have a thin silver wire stretched between them and then on the second pole a small black wire soldered on.
That black wire is hanging in space. Below it two poles with yellow and blue wires soldered to something further in which
are intact.
The 3 position switch has three wires connected to it:
white, black and red in that order.
Unfortunately, in bringing the guitar outside the red wire became detached from the switch (need to resolder).
And it looks like the red wire leading to GK volume became detached which I'll need to reattach....hmmm.
But the black wire connected to the top right connection of the inc/dec switch - where does that go?
Pics:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmadsound.dyndns.org%2Fguitars%2Fvgstrat%2Fwiring2%2FIMG_2742.jpg&hash=992f53950e4a343a4955652b8be1530ab0fc3eef)
In the center is the inc/dec buttons and there's a thin wire between the top two contacts and on the right side a black wire soldered that connects to nothing.
Below, yellow (left) and blue (right) wires still intact and connected to the innards further towards the output.
To the right, the blue 3 position switch with white, black, red wiring in that order. The red wire became detached infortunately.
I see the other red wire was detached to the GK volume. Grumble. It needs to be reattached then.
Views:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmadsound.dyndns.org%2Fguitars%2Fvgstrat%2Fwiring2%2FIMG_2740.JPG&hash=38368b6a7c5b467eb87a1e467a84715dc70f6010)
The two red wires:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmadsound.dyndns.org%2Fguitars%2Fvgstrat%2Fwiring2%2FIMG_2743.jpg&hash=bcb73abe52481461ed20faf91a0da3bafbbc627f)
Another view underside:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmadsound.dyndns.org%2Fguitars%2Fvgstrat%2Fwiring2%2FIMG_2745.jpg&hash=a97f494ad7ed96eeca3fc22f787f8a162ee35069)
Here's where one red wire is supposed to go:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmadsound.dyndns.org%2Fguitars%2Fvgstrat%2Fwiring%2FIMG_2735.JPG&hash=43693b592904ef1a222953353a22c96dfb7464ae)
Sigh. I'm almost thinking I should bring it to local service but I have no idea who even services these locally.
I put up the wiring diagram PDF at my server:
http://madsound.dyndns.org/rrs/SD0134660CPg2.pdf (http://madsound.dyndns.org/rrs/SD0134660CPg2.pdf)
It looks like one of the wires from the INC/DEC goes to the center lobe of the 3 position switch. Is this correct? If so it might explain this whole problem:
It looks like when the switch got turned the black wire may have become disconnected from the center pole of the 3 position switch and that lead to the problem.
So maybe I only have 3 wires to reconnect:
the red wire to the 3 position switch,
the red wire to the gk volume
and the black wire to the center connection on the 3 position switch.
I still might need to have someone else do this - my soldering iron is long gone I suspect, I haven't done any repair like this in
quite a long time.
ITs crucial to be gentle
Here is a link to all the electronics in YOUR guitar
http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/GK-2A-KIT_OM.pdf (http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/GK-2A-KIT_OM.pdf)
QuoteIn the center is the inc/dec buttons and there's a thin wire between the top two contacts and on the right side a black wire soldered that connects to nothing.
The loose Black Wire from the Switches needs to be soldered to Ground - use the back of one of the Tone / Vol Pots.
This should be old news - find your local Roland Authorized Service Center here:
http://www.rolandus.com/support/service_centers/ (http://www.rolandus.com/support/service_centers/)
For benefit of others - Fender Roland Ready Strat Wiring Diagram (complete)
http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/stratocaster/013-4660C_SISD.pdf (http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/stratocaster/013-4660C_SISD.pdf)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FScreenShot2012-09-15at114917AM.png&hash=cabce9a31fcde8b9cb985cdbebc07a7b3c84ad92)
GK2-Kit Wiring (The 1997-2011 Fender Roland Ready Strat employs the GK2-Kit internally.)
http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/GK-KIT-G_OM.pdf (http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/GK-KIT-G_OM.pdf)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FScreenShot2012-09-15at120140PM.png&hash=9407a01bf1b940b78676828bfe1c413a5c3ef2b4)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FScreenShot2012-09-15at115158AM.png&hash=9535015cb461bbe9b8de4a02ef06cece3f4d60b6)
I find the very similar GK3-Kit Instructions have a better schematic
http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf (http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FScreenShot2012-09-15at115621AM.png&hash=e18ce6cab9dc00ba6b8eb588d2aed79c30da9235)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FScreenShot2012-09-15at115638AM.png&hash=d2ff0374f7dc6590b74c62c75bb2a6d90df7aeb9)
Yes - the problems began when I took it outside to photograph it, a stratocaster is actually very slippery and fell right out of my hands at ground level. Argh.
Thanks for the info though. That will be helpful. I'll post updates as I get it functional again.
Thanks for the update and documentation.
The biggest problem is there is very little clearance between the bottom of the pickguard and the actual guitar body and the wires are pretty delicate and not very long.
I have tried to get in there with the iron but my hands are too large to get a good angle on things.
I think I'll take my chances at my local dealer - get it fixed right and be done with it and hopefully not have to do it again.
Todd
Man, sorry for your trouble.
It sounds like the day I had!
It should be a fast repair and I suggest you take it in.
Should be a cheap repair.
The tech may need you to be there to test it with your gear as the most likely they will not have 13 pin stuff to test it.
THAT is GOOD, so schedule a time for repair WHILE you are there.
It may take 15 minutes and you will know just how long it took!
Good luck.
Again sorry
Bill
I also advise print out the PDFs above, so they have no excuse to delay the repair while they hunt for schematics.
Fender Roland Ready guitars are probably not an easy repair for a luthier, and since those older models are products of Fender, a Roland repair center could refuse to work on it.
Many repair shops are intimidated by such a maze of wires, and not accept the work if they think there is no profit in it. Call first.
QuoteThe biggest problem is there is very little clearance between the bottom of the pickguard and the actual guitar body and the wires are pretty delicate and not very long.
That's why you must remove the rear cover and temporarily remove the wire harnesses from the main internal PC board, mounted in the rear.
Its just like this:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg36.imageshack.us%2Fimg36%2F3001%2Fimagenol.jpg&hash=b85b32182b48a714a4b7ccb4a1310371f258041d)
There's basically two places in town and the one had a recording machine message saying they were at a dance party with Janet Reno (seriously!).
The other one I talked to the guy and explained what happened and also that I had schematics and the guy seemed pretty up for the job. He figured under half an hour if I gave him the schematics and told him what wires I managed to detach.
I'll be calling the guy Monday night to see how he wants to do this - and great idea about bringing the VG to the place since it's
unlikely they have any 13-pin gear.
Bill: Yeah, it was a comedy of errors. My other guy who I trust on soldering iron matters found that his hands were too big too!
Geez. It was like trying to pick up a seal at the zoo - so slippery. Oh well. I have other instruments I can use in the meantime
but I like the neck on that particular RR Strat.
Quote from: aliensporebomb on September 15, 2012, 11:55:25 AM
Yes - the problems began when I took it outside to photograph it, a stratocaster is actually very slippery and fell right out of my hands at ground level. Argh.
If it makes you feel any better, a trem spring got away from me while I was setting up a Bladerunner in my
brand new GC1 this weekend, and left a nice scratch across the back of the guitar. This guitar had barely been played, had never left the house... hell it still had the factory strings on it. A very brief emotional meltdown ensued.
mbenigni: ouch.
Due to circumstances beyond my control I have to wait until friday to call - extraneous projects interfere (darn it!)
bump
I updated a few links above with more complete pics
Hi:
If any one can help this is a pretty simple question. I'm looking for a clarification on the type of SPDT toggle switch that one can use to replace the 2 switches included with the GK Kit. The manual says off-on-off but most switches that are readily available are mom on-off-mom on. Dose it matter?
Thanks in advance,
Gass
S1 & S2 using Momentary Toggle Switch
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3921.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3921.0)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-MINI-TOGGLE-SPDT-ON-OFF-ON-MOMENTARY-SWITCH-6-AMP-/120381627443?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1c074ddc33 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-NEW-MINI-TOGGLE-SPDT-ON-OFF-ON-MOMENTARY-SWITCH-6-AMP-/120381627443?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item1c074ddc33)
These are the ones I used in my last GK install - purchased from this seller in 2011
Believe it or not, I've found suitable spring return DPDT switches at Radio Shack in the past. Was heavier construction but worked in a pinch.
bd
How do I setup my GK2A pickup so that when I press S1 or S2 switches my XV202will change programs??
I looked online, here, read the manuals..its probably a question many people ask.
I go GK2A---GI20----Roland XV2020
and no guess so far has worked...help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GtrGeorge
The Gi-20 Owners Manual should cover how to map the S1 S2 on GK-2A to do what you want.
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1811249/GI-20_e6.pdf (http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1811249/GI-20_e6.pdf)
Read pages 19-20
Functions That Can Be Selected With ASSIGN
S1/S2 Switch Patch Up/Down, Octave Up/Down
And read
"Workflow" for setting up MIDI controllers
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2975.msg18004#msg18004 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2975.msg18004#msg18004)
and consider using the GI-20 Editor - much easier to understand and set the GI-20 controls.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=33162.msg245782#msg245782 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=33162.msg245782#msg245782)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.tiscali.it%2Ffarello2%2Fgi20%2Fpatches1_big_mac.png&hash=b5ced3a714b826c08d3aa62808c839086319e260)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.tiscali.it%2Ffarello2%2Fgi20%2Fpatches3_big_mac.png&hash=5ed463454e12f3738bf51e62cddba632ec5d31dc)
Thank you!!...I think I WILL deal with the editor..the manual was not clear..after an hour I was perplexed.
GtrGeorge
I just want to run the divided pickup at full volume. I don't have enough room in the cavity for the GK volume pot. Can I just solder the red and white wires together and omit the 50k pot? Should the black wire be soldered to ground?
Thanks
QuoteI just want to run the divided pickup at full volume. I don't have enough room in the cavity for the GK volume pot. Can I just solder the red and white wires together and omit the 50k pot? Should the black wire be soldered to ground?
This thread holds bulk of the info you need
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7893.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7893.0)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi412.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp208%2Felantric%2FGK-3_internal_zps5c5d2c3d.png&hash=9f42f5a3e2bfce91d2a4517dbbaf313f6c8ab8a2)
If you want to effectively allow the GK-3 circuit to act 100% like the GK-VOL pot is always set to 100%.
Refer to the above GK-3 internal Wire diagram (right click and save to computer)
See the GK-VOL wire connector (CN7) on the lower right of wiring diagram above.
1) Eliminate the 50K GK-VOL pot. See the three GK-Vol pot wires (Red, White, Black)
2) Obtain a small 1/8th watt 50K ohm resistor.
3) Solder the Red & White GK-Vol pot wires together, to one end of the 50K resistor and insulate this connection with tape or heat shrink.
4) Solder the remaining open end of the 50K resistor from step#3 to Ground, along with the Black GK-Vol pot Wire.
I'm assuming I missed something. The Roland works fine but not thing from gk mix or just
Guitar
QuoteThe Roland works fine but not thing from gk mix or just
Guitar
What product?
We have separate threads that cover this. For political reasons, Roland disabled the use of the three way "Guitar/Mix/ Synth" switch on the factory presets for VG-99 and GR-55.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3196.msg58690#msg58690 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3196.msg58690#msg58690)
To "re-enable" this important feature, You must build new user patches from scratch that have the (as Roland calls it)
"Normal Guitar Pickup Tone" enabled
More here:
GR-55 Enable Normal Pickup
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0)
VG-99 Enable Normal Pickup
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5293.msg36234#msg36234 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5293.msg36234#msg36234)
I'm having a trouble with the 3-way mini-toggle on my Roland-Ready Strat. Full disclosure: when I bought it in September I swapped the pickups and pickguard, which was a hair-pulling exercise, but it's been working fine since then. I've used it at a bunch of rehearsals and a couple of gigs with no issues. But Wednesday night when I put the mini-toggle in the "guitar" position, I got no audio signal through the 13-pin jack or through the Strat jack. In the "mix" and "synth" positions everything worked fine. Of course the next day when I took it to a local shop to get it looked at everything was working normally, so the tech just sprayed the switch with De-Oxit figuring it might just have been a speck of dust or something interfering with the contacts in the switch. But then during the middle of my rehearsal that night it cut out again. Before I open up the guitar, I'm wondering, has anyone had one of these switches go bad? I'm hoping it's a loose wire/bad solder joint issue. The switch wiggles a bit in its base, but that's been true since I bought the guitar and I assumed it was normal. It doesn't wiggle any more than a Gibson 3-way pickup switch. If I have to replace the switch, does anyone have a recommendation for a robust drop-in replacement?
Only half dozen of the Factory VG-99 / GR-55 Presets have a working "normal Guitar PU" signal path. You must build your own Patches that also include a working "normal Guitar PU" signal path on Both VG-99 And the GR-55. (its a big sore point for me that all the recent Roland 13 pin processors since 2007 the factory presets disable "Normal Pickup signal path by design)
* How to enable "Normal Guitar Pickups" and make the GK-3 three-way switch work with the GR-55:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0)
If its your Roland Ready Strat, and you confirmed you have already tried to enable the Normal PU's (see link above) I suspect you may have a bad Output Jack
Its a switching type jack - actually the same type used as an Input jack on old vintage Fender Twin reverb amp
When this Jack's switching elements go bad, the Roland Ready Strat's mini three way toggle may act non-functional.
This arrangement of using a switching output jack is unique to the the Fender Roland Ready / GC-1 Strats - and different than Roland Gk Internal kits.
The goal of the switching Output Jack is when the 1/4" Guitar cord is connected, this will completely remove the entire Roland GK circuit from the normal guitar output path.
* Remove the Jackplate and verify the contacts are clean on the SWITCHING OUTPUT JACK. If these contacts become dirty, much noise can be introduced or worse, complete failure of the normal guitar sound passing thru the 13 pin cable. Most Roland Ready Strats older than 5 years will suffer contact failure on this unique 1/4" switching jack. (Hint: This is the same switchcraft type switching jack as used on a 1960's Blackface Fender Twin Reverb Input Jack
(https://i.postimg.cc/26y7mwhZ/roland-play-loud-duck-strat18-zps24869038.jpg)
Thanks for the tips, it never would have occurred to me to look at that output jack. I'll report back what I find.
I've had my mix switch fail. Its easily replaceable. I used a switch from Radio Shack since I needed one quick. The replacement switch is slightly larger and more durable.... Works fine.
bd
If you do replace the switch - you need a On/Off/ON Center Off type switch - can be either SPDT or DPDT
http://compare.ebay.com/like/260742624253?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar (http://compare.ebay.com/like/260742624253?var=lv<yp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar)
DPDT Center Off Submini Toggle Switch
Radio Shack #Model: 275-620
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062502 (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062502)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frsk.imageg.net%2Fgraphics%2Fproduct_images%2FpRS1C-2160411w345.jpg&hash=a03590cf32a95fa0d09957f2159076fdc79420e1)
Sorry, gr55...I'm doing a frankenstrat clone with the internal pickup....the Roland pickup is great, but no signal from my humbucker.....also....with this setup does the guitar input jack work separately if I just want to use the humbucker into a normal amp setup?
I should note that the external gk controller works fine, so I'm guessing I have a wire in the wrong place assembling the internal pickup.
GR-55 Enable Normal Pickup
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0)
Realize you must re-program each GR-55 patch to support Normal PU. If you also want your 3way guitar/mix/synth switch to work also, then the GK Volume pot must also be mapped to Patch Volume or Tone Volume.
This can present problems because bulk of the GR-55 factory patches have remapped the GK Volume pot to other GR-55 parameters like Amp Gain etc. and this actually "breaks" the functionality of the 3-way guitar/mix/synth switch. It also breaks the functionality of the Roland US-20 A/B selector.
Design choices Roland made in 1988 are to blame.
Many GR-55 users work around these limitations and run two cables from the guitar.
* One 13 pin cable for Synth only
* One 1/4" guitar cord for normal guitar.
Use a typical Guitar rig setup, and use separate floor volume pedals to select Synth or normal guitar.
Your local Car stereo shop sells flexible cable management overlays to minimize your stage cable spaghetti.
I don't have this issue when using my external roland pickup
1. With the internal, if installed correctly I should be able to use my stock humbucker sound through the 13 pin cable provided I have this enabled in each patch? Yes?
2. If scenario 1 is true, then can I still use my standard input jack running to a separate setup?
I seem to remember that the internal pickup setup is a bit different than the external in terms of capabilities? I typically use the Roland 100%, but I also utilize the stock pickup for backup in case the Roland has an issue I can plug in to the standard jack and run that to another effects board, etc.
If the GK Internal was properly installed, the Normal guitar output sound should Always be available from the Normal 1/4" guitar output jack on your guitar.
If not, talk to your installer, and have him refer to these threads.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.msg3281#msg3281 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.msg3281#msg3281)
Quote1. With the internal, if installed correctly I should be able to use my stock humbucker sound through the 13 pin cable provided I have this enabled in each patch? Yes?
Correct.
But there are very few GR-55 patches that allow you to test this functionality without diving into the GR-55 and reprogramming patches to allow support of the Normal guitar sound via the 13 pin cable.
Your hardware may be perfectly functional, but appear not to work in the GR-55 because the necessary parameters to enable processing of the Normal guitar sound have been turned off by Roland as shipped by the factory.
But when you say
"My external GK-3 works, but my Internal GK Kit does not" leaves me to think you have a problem with your internal install.
Quoteseem to remember that the internal pickup setup is a bit different than the external in terms of capabilities
That's not the case, both external GK-3 and internal GK-Kit operate the same with identical signal flow and user controls.
The only advantage of the External GK-3 is you have external 1/4" plug access to the normal guitar signal I/O path in front of the GK-3 signal buffer, right on the guitar. One could mount Boss pedals right on the guitar and feed their output to the GK-3 1/4" Guitar Input, for "rage against the machine" type effect if so inclined. I even heard of some folks with external GK-3's running "3 cables" from their guitars. This allows the Boss pedals mentioned above to be mounted on the floor.
I just installed internal GK3 kit and have the same result - no guitar output is provided through 13pin.
Maybe I connected the wires uncorrectly. Actually the right orientation of the switch is not visible from the scheme.
Do you have any hint which wire should go to which pin? (You could turn the swith 180 degrees, looks the same as on the scheme, but the internal wiring is probably different.)
Schematics
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.msg3281#msg3281 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.msg3281#msg3281)
GK-3_INTERNAL_Schematic.pdf
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=6661 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=6661)
I am trying to Identify some of the Board connectors
They look like a Molex family but not sure ...can anyone help ??
Thanks in advance
Oscope
Hi,
Not much chance of a parts list with the GR-55, as the service manual is out of bounds. Spoke to Roland a few days ago, and they told me the service manual will become available when the unit is discontinued.
If you can't find a match with the headers and connectors, chances are they might be of a custom variety and originating from the far east (Obviously ::)). I take it you've looked through the normal electronic component suppliers?
Regards,
Bill
Just a follow-up for those who re-read this thread.
I took it to EMI in Minneapolis and the guy there did a bang up job. EMI is Electronic Musical Instrument Repair but they specialize in repairing synthesizers, mixing boards, audio gear and they also have a sideline business selling guitar amps (and I even saw one or two inexpensive electric guitars there and you can get strings, picks, etc). They also sell studio monitors, stage lighting and DJ gear.
So what the tech did did after getting everything going again is put a drop of loctite (a tiny one) on the underside of the nut that keeps the 3 position mag/gk+mag/GK switch stationary. This way it won't swivel around again and if I should ever need to replace the switch I can do so without destroying the pickguard.
The whole problem started when the nut got loose and in tightening it repeatedly caused the switch to swivel around in the pick guard and those little wires are very thin and sort of brittle I'd say and several became loose. Then the "slippery strat" incident occurred during the ill-fated outdoor photography of the innards occurred.
I want to thank Elantric for providing the schematic - that was crucial for the tech getting it right the first time and the tech actually followed up the repair and said to me "tell the guy who supplied you with the schematic thanks!".
This way if they run into others with the same problem they can help them out as well.
Glad you got that working again and the info here helped.
Thanks Bill
My question may have been a bit miss leading
I was actually looking for the connector headers on the preamp board for the GK-Kit GT3, the permanent installation kit.
But I think your answer is still valid, in that there is no REAL part numbers.
I did look at the standard suppliers and just may get a few connectors to try.
The reason I was looking for the Part #'s was to avoid splicing wires in order to lengthen :P, but I may be forced to do so.
Thanks for the reply though !
Oscope (Tom)
QuoteBut I think your answer is still valid, in that there is no REAL part numbers.
huh?
Try looking here first
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.msg3281#msg3281 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.msg3281#msg3281)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=6628 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=6628)
Review the Parts List, where all part numbers are listed.
For example here is the GK-3 Internal Pickup 8 pin connector for the internal GK-3 Preamp PC board.
You will locate :
"F3417191 B8B-ZR JST P=1.5 8P CONNECTOR CN2 on Main Board"
this breaks down to
"F3417191" = Roland Part Number F3417191
"B8B-ZR JST" = J.S.T. Part Number "B8B-ZR"(LF)(SN)
"P=1.5 8P CONNECTOR CN2 on Main Board" = Description of part type and where used. This is a 8 pin White connector with 1.5mm pitch single Inline Connector sourced from J.S.T.
http://www.jst.com/ (http://www.jst.com/)
http://www.jst.com/pdf/JST_CrinpChart%20(English).pdf (http://www.jst.com/pdf/JST_CrinpChart%20(English).pdf)
Google Search on "B8B-ZR JST"
Gets you to Digikey:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.digikey.com%2Fphotos%2FJST%2520Photos%2FB8B-ZR_sml.jpg&hash=74dc57fe6b50aad304bbfa344f5f3605884cb40d)
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/B8B-ZR%28LF%29%28SN%29/455-1663-ND/926570 (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/B8B-ZR%28LF%29%28SN%29/455-1663-ND/926570)
Digikey Part Number # 455-1663-ND
J.S.T. # B8B-ZR"(LF)(SN)
Review all the J.S.T. "ZH" family of 1.5mm connectors for the Internal Gk-3 Connectors
http://www.jst-mfg.com/product/pdf/eng/eZH.pdf (http://www.jst-mfg.com/product/pdf/eng/eZH.pdf)
All Internal Gk-3 Connectors are listed here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=6628 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=6628)
The crucial bit of info is the fact that the Roland GK-3 uses 1.5mm pitch single row connectors.
Any 1.5mm pitch connector should also work as a substitute
Google search for "1.5mm pitch single row connector"
Tyco Connectivity
http://www.te.com/catalog/minf/en/608 (http://www.te.com/catalog/minf/en/608)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.te.com%2FTE%2FOverview%2Fminictconnov.jpg&hash=fb6b66ce328b86f9d790bc714c8b2c58736a2e1f)
or
TTI
http://www.ttiinc.com/object/Tyco-Electronics-1mm-1.5mm-Centerline-Product-Family-Overview (http://www.ttiinc.com/object/Tyco-Electronics-1mm-1.5mm-Centerline-Product-Family-Overview)
or
Hirose (japan)
http://www.hiroseusa.com/images/2012_Connector_Selector_OptimizedA.pdf (http://www.hiroseusa.com/images/2012_Connector_Selector_OptimizedA.pdf)
Typical component sources
www.digikey.com (http://www.digikey.com)
www.mouser.com (http://www.mouser.com)
www.jameco.com (http://www.jameco.com)
(http://www.allelectronics.com/%5B/url)
Elantric,
I looked around the forum (Damn newbies) but found nothing
Most of what you showing me is for the GK-3 and I am looking for the GT-3 Preamp board connectors
which measure a 2mm pin spacing, I'll have to check that again
I do owe you a HUGH Thank You !
.....as you certainly helped me out with this as I should be able to get the same in a 2mm pitch
I am still mapping out one of my guitars for the permanent install
This will really help and Thanks again !
Oscope
Quote from: Oscope on June 03, 2013, 07:22:52 PM
Elantric,
I looked around the forum (Damn newbies) but found nothing
Most of what you showing me is for the GK-3 and I am looking for the GT-3 Preamp board connectors
which measure a 2mm pin spacing, I'll have to check that again
I do owe you a HUGH Thank You !
.....as you certainly helped me out with this as I should be able to get the same in a 2mm pitch
I am still mapping out one of my guitars for the permanent install
This will really help and Thanks again !
Oscope
Oscope,
You may be right, but I'd check that board again. I have personally installed 2 GK-KIT-GTs and the boards were identical as far as I could see. Also seemed to match the one in my RR Strat. I don't see any reason why Roland would go to the expense of making a different board for the GK-KIT-GT3 than they had for the internals they supplied to Fender and the ones they sold as the GK-KIT-GT.
With the right tools you can probably open up the connectors that came with the kit and replace the wires with longer ones. I have not tried it with these specific connectors, but I have done this with many similar connectors while tinkering with PCs.
When in doubt - use a pair of these and measure the pin to pin pitch of the connectors you seek
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7d5.scene7.com%2Fis%2Fimage%2FStaples%2Fs0636012_sc7%3F%24splssku%24&hash=5fdf2dadc279933e63b36d666237fdba1ec31e8d)
http://www.staples.com/office/supplies/StaplesProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogIdentifier=2&partNumber=154461&langid=-1&cid=PS:GooglePLAs:154461&KPID=154461 (http://www.staples.com/office/supplies/StaplesProductDisplay?storeId=10001&catalogIdentifier=2&partNumber=154461&langid=-1&cid=PS:GooglePLAs:154461&KPID=154461)
Roland has used a mix of 1.5mm pitch and 2mm pitch headers / connectors on their guitar products
But for "CN2" 8 pin Male Header for the hex pickup on the internal GK Preamp board (Internal GK-Kit-GT3 or External GK-3 ) , this is the part (Its 1.5mm pitch )
"B8B-ZR JST" = J.S.T. Part Number "B8B-ZR"(LF)(SN)
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/B8B-ZR-SM4-TF%28LF%29%28SN%29%28P%29/455-1687-6-ND/1963675 (http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/B8B-ZR-SM4-TF%28LF%29%28SN%29%28P%29/455-1687-6-ND/1963675)
QuoteWith the right tools you can probably open up the connectors that came with the kit and replace the wires with longer ones. I have not tried it with these specific connectors, but I have done this with many similar connectors while tinkering with PCs.
I have included a pic of the board
Yes that is option but I don't have all the crimping tools required to that but that leads to just going direct to the board (remove connector) and solder direct
Elantric..... Calipers.. That is exactly what l used to measure the pin pitch
The ONLY connector on that preamp board with a 1.5mm pitch is the HEX PUP connector (as you identified) ....All others are 2mm
That said.... the info you replied with earlier was very helpful in finding the potential connectors I was looking for
Here are all the connector Part numbers from DigiKey and hope someone else finds this useful
2mm Connectors and Mates for the GT3 Preamp Board2 Pin Male (DG # 455-1704-ND) (JST # B2B-PH-K-S(LF)(SN))
2 Pin Female (DK # 455-1165-ND) (JST # PHR-2)
3 Pin Male (DG # 455-1705-ND) (JST # B3B-PH-K-S(LF)(SN))
3 Pin Female (DK # 455-1126-ND) (JST # PHR-3)
7 Pin Male (DK # 455-1709-ND) (JST # B7B-PH-K-S(LF)(SN))
7 Pin Female (DK # 455-1161-ND) (JST # PHR-7)
8 Pin Male (DK # 455-1710-ND) (JST # B8B-PH-K-S(LF)(SN))
8 Pin Female (DK# 455-1189-ND) (JST # PHR-8)
1.5mm Connectors and Mates for the GT3 Preamp Board8 Pin Male (DG # 455-1663-ND) (JST # B8B-ZR(LF)(SN))
8 Pin Female (DK # 455-1199-ND) (JST # ZHR-8)
Oscope
Quotebut I don't have all the crimping tools required
Been there done that - the Futaba/Engineer Model PA-09 Crimpers work on these small crimp pins for the Roland / Line-6 Connectors
http://www.engineer.jp/index_e.html (http://www.engineer.jp/index_e.html)
http://www.engineer.jp/video/PA-09web.wmv (http://www.engineer.jp/video/PA-09web.wmv)
http://engineer.en.ec21.com/offer_detail/Sell_Micro_Connector_Crimping_Tools--802761.html?gubun=S (http://engineer.en.ec21.com/offer_detail/Sell_Micro_Connector_Crimping_Tools--802761.html?gubun=S)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimage.ec21.com%2Fimage%2Fengineer%2FOF0000802761_1%2FSell_Micro_Connector_Crimping_Tools.jpg&hash=d79c5c2462cb04d73b45b0c6136661d45da44a2d)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.precisehandtools.com%2Fimage%2Fcache%2Fdata%2Fpa-09%2F3-500x500.jpg&hash=577a12bdcd118290504580777e9102dc631de1d2)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.precisehandtools.com%2Fimage%2Fcache%2Fdata%2Fpa-09%2F2-500x500.jpg&hash=58e7602bf860f45f8f7fbba4360c08b9baf377aa)
http://www.precisehandtools.com/crimping/engineer-pa-09-universal-mini-crimping-tool-for-molex-jst-amp-hirose-jae-etc (http://www.precisehandtools.com/crimping/engineer-pa-09-universal-mini-crimping-tool-for-molex-jst-amp-hirose-jae-etc)
The price varies
http://www.amazon.com/Engineer-PA-09-Micro-Connector-Crimpers/dp/B002AVVO7K (http://www.amazon.com/Engineer-PA-09-Micro-Connector-Crimpers/dp/B002AVVO7K)
I bought mine here 3 years ago - $59
http://store.iheartengineering.com/ihe-0a00-0001-0000.html (http://store.iheartengineering.com/ihe-0a00-0001-0000.html)
The price might seem high, but remember the "official" crimping tool for these connectors typically runs several hundred dollars.
Another option is locate a local advanced Radio Control or Robotic Control Hobbyist, as many of those guys seem to own a pair of Engineer PA-09 Crimpers in their tool crib, because all the servo motors use these same type connectors.
Also - Many third party Molex,TTI,Amp,Hirose,JST,JAL, Oupiin, etc, "2mm pitch single row connectors" are all cross compatible
On the same path with the crimpers
But again ..you are such a wealth of information
I found them on Sparkfun for 60 bucks
I guess I'll look at making some purchases tonight
Thanks Elantric.....Again !
Just bought a used Roland Ready start in like new shape (still has plastic on pick guard and trem cover as well as original stickers). Just noticed the same issue as the original poster. Synth position on the 3 way toggle works fine, synth/mag position works fine as well (can hear both out of the 13 pin) however the guitar/mag ONLY position yields NO sound out of the GR55 (or 13 pin as it would seem). This is strange because the switching element in the 1/4" out put jack seems to work (i.e., with the toggle in the synth/mag position I can hear the guitar cut in and out of the mix when i plug/unplug an instrument cable into the guitar's output jack). Any idea what this might be before I open this thing up and make more hassle for myself?
Burningyen, how did you fix your issue?
Is it the same deal as on the VG-99 where each patch must be edited to allow the mag pickups to be heard?
Quote from: aliensporebomb on August 14, 2013, 05:48:06 AM
Is it the same deal as on the VG-99 where each patch must be edited to allow the mag pickups to be heard?
It might be, I'll have to check when I get home, however it DOES let the mag pickup sound through when in the middle position (Mag/Synth), but when I try the mag ONLY position on the toggle there is no sound out of the GR55/13 pin. This leads me to believe there is something going on with the toggle switch itself.
GR-55 FAQ: TOP THINGS TO KNOW
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0)
QuoteIs it the same deal as on the VG-99 where each patch must be edited to allow the mag pickups to be heard?
Yes -Only half dozen of the Factory GR-55 Presets have a working "normal Guitar PU" signal path. You must build your own Patches that also include a working "normal Guitar PU" signal path on Both VG-99 And the GR-55. (its a big sore point for me that all the recent Roland 13 pin processors since 2007 the factory presets disable "Normal Pickup signal path by design)
* How to enable "Normal Guitar Pickups" and make the GK-3 three-way switch work with the GR-55:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0)
Thanks guys, turns out you were right. I just needed to make some changes on the GR-55 to get it all working. Love this thing.
I did something similar awhile ago, with a Epiphone Les Paul. Two changes: I had a vintage G-303 pickup, so I used that in place of the Roland GK pickup. The hardware is much nicer, and you don't have that weird arm thingy on the pickup.
Also, I wired the guitar as master volume and tone, then used the two other knobs as GK Synth Volume, and the last pot was wired as a EV-5, with a breakout box.
Photos and video below:
http://youtu.be/paboV4jqBds (http://youtu.be/paboV4jqBds)
Darren Lock's LP with Internal GK-3
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.darrenlock.com%2Fmt%2Farchives%2F2009%2F03%2F30%2Fepi2.jpg&hash=ab689b1e61d5078ce430ef90d98492afa313c153)
GK-3 and Sustainiac on my Epiphone LP Elite
Just to say thanks for this page. Foolishly I took my rr strat apart yesterday to swap to a black pick guard. Cutting the pick guard was easy compared to getting the thing back together again. The other issue is that the inc decr switches are fitted to plastic holders that need to be glued to the pick guard. Wiring does seem to be brittle as s1/s2 wires came off as did one off the toggle switch. I must have got something wrong as inc/dec now only works when GK only is selected. I'm wondering if I could replace inc/dec switches with a single toggle switch so I can junk the plastic mounting holders altogether and start again. What a nightmare. Moral of the story - don't take your strat apart, especially for a "simple" cosmetic mod. Wiring is very delicate.
All schematics are on this thread
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=6977 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=6977)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=803 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73.0;attach=803)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2672013%2F1380080899_1567413277_gk2schem1da0.jpg&hash=934a536e6c203165f403a46f2dcbbc6ee78b0999)
Many do replace S1 / S2 switches with a spring loaded (on)-off-(on) toggle (just like a Godin LGXSA / XTSA)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3921.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3921.0)
This thread is worth reading too
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6980.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6980.0)
??? :-[ :)
Hello, we have finished all the cutting for installing the GK-3 Internal Kit and have reached the point where we need to start soldering. I have read and reread the instruction manual. The wiring diagram shows 2 pin White/Shield - For Guitar Signal *max input level is 12V and that is connected to the Guitar Volume which then connects to the regular pickups. Now, all of this time I've been rereading the words over and over, I thought the dotted line was the circuit for battery connected guitars (and as mine doesn't have a battery, I was discarding this section, you see.) Now I'm starting to see that the dotted line is actually the circuit of the guitar - just to be clear, we are talking about using the White/Shield to connect the bottom left hand side socket of the board to the regular guitar volume. I'm sorry that I need to be so explicit but I've had a very long discussion with my Dad and my Uncle and we concluded that it would be a mistake to connect the GK wiring and the regular wiring together because it could blow everything. Please understand that they grew up in the 1950's when such technology/products had not been invented so consequently it takes a lot to get your head around it all!!
:) :-[ ???
So having done all of that I will end up with two volume knobs controlling the guitar, one for my regular pickups and one for the GK pickup?? Have I covered everything?? Do you think I am now on the same page as everyone else?? Wish I had better understanding during my school science lessons... Grrr...
I hope all of that makes sense to you. Many thanks for reading.
Rich
Sounds right to me.
In the picture in the manual (labelled "Wiring Diagram"), the dotted area describes the inter-connection points with the guitar's original circuitry.
As shown in the picture, the guitar signal cable goes into the bottom-left side of the preamp board (when holding it with the GK Connector sockets are on the right hand side, as shown in the picture). The white wire is the signal, it's soldered to the middle lug of the normal master volume pot (i.e. the output lug, the signal there has already gone through the pot) and the black wire is soldered to ground.
riggy:
You say:
"So having done all of that I will end up with two volume knobs controlling the guitar, one for my regular pickups and one for the GK pickup?? "
...yes, you will wind up with the original volume control of your guitar controlling the volume of your mag pickups as it always did...with the additional feature that WHEN you choose to suck that signal down the 13-pin cable to your synth via the Roland "mix" switch, that volume control will also affect the volume of the said pickups signal in the mix (the mag signal on its own will still be available via the guitar's original 1/4" jack, ALSO controlled by the same volume control as it always was..)
The 'new' (Roland) volume control will only control the output of the GK3 pickup... whether OR NOT you choose to combine its signal with the mag pickups...
....IF you choose to blend the mag and GK pickups to get the sound(s) you want, you have the ability to vary the content of the 'mix' by adjusting each of the two volume controls until you get the blend you want....
Hope that makes sense..
Cheers,
Peter...... ...also around in the 1950s... ;D
Hello
Thank you for your comments!! They are a great help to me.
Peter:
It is interesting that you mentioned the 1/4" jack because the 'solution' that my Dad and my Uncle came up with was to plug a regular 1/4" guitar cable in at the same time as the new 13 pin GK cable, rather than attach the 'old' electronics to the new GK kit and blow the PCB. Of course as there would be no connection between the two, there would be no way of using the GK kit solely on its own - ie. the sound would still come from the old electronics regardless and this was the thing that we didn't fully understand. Now it has been explained, it makes more sense!! As a big fan of gadgets and using technology in different ways, I feel as if I am working as a middle man, liaising between the 1950's and the current generation, gradually dragging everybody into the 21st century. ::) While there are some aspects of the old days that benefit us better than current opinions would like us to believe, it often feels like I'm pushing water uphill!! ::) ;D Grrr...
Once again, I'm sorry that you guy's have to work with such substandard intelligence (myself included. Must try harder next time!!)
Thanks, Rich
I managed to get an internal kit shoe horned into an Epiphone Flying V. Did the routing with a Dremel Tool. GK-3 internal kit on a Flying V
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Good job on a tight fit guitar!
Awesome! Great fit and finish :)
Quote from: Elantric on December 16, 2013, 09:35:07 AM
Good job on a tight fit guitar!
Yeah it was a really tight fit. Spent a lot of time planning out where to put everything.
Quote from: rafaelrebolleda on December 16, 2013, 09:40:20 AM
Awesome! Great fit and finish :)
Thankyou sir. Im happy with the way it came out. I wanted to add the extra pot like drjones did but I wasnt sure how to wire it up with some sort of break out box like his. If anybody knows how thats done a tutorial would be welcome. ( nudge nudge wink wink )
QuoteI wanted to add the extra pot like drjones did but I wasnt sure how to wire it up with some sort of break out box like his. If anybody knows how thats done a tutorial would be welcome. ( nudge nudge wink wink )
All details are here:
http://www.joness.com/gr300/Epiphone_Les_Paul_Custom.htm (http://www.joness.com/gr300/Epiphone_Les_Paul_Custom.htm)
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Internal Roland EV-5 Control Circuit
The EV-5 circuit in the guitar is a simple 10K linear taper potentiometer. The key to the whole design is the GK Expression breakout box. This is a compact stomp box with a 13-pin input (from guitar) and a 13-pin output (to synthesizer). On the side is a TRS jack that outputs a Roland EV-5 control signal.
A TRS cable connects from the GK Expression TRS jack to any device that has a Roland EV-5 expression pedal input, such as the VG-88 or VG-99. On the front of the GK Expression are two foot switches: GK Vol and Exp Pedal, with green and red status LEDs. Using these foot switches, you can turn the Roland GK Guitar Synth Volume on and off, and also turn the Expression Pedal/EV-5 signal on and off.
GK Expression Circuit
Diagram: Click to Enlarge
To make this circuit possible, two additional control lines are needed for the EV-5/10K potentiometer. The first choice was pin #9, not used in the GK-2 circuit board. I also decided to use pin #7, the guitar signal. In this design, the GK-2 does not send the conventional guitar pickup sound down the 13-pin cable to the guitar synth.
Why did I decide to wire the GK Expression control inside the guitar? Most vintage guitar synth players remark to me that they miss the extra controls found on a Roland G-303, G-808, or the amazing Ibanez IMG2010. It was a sacrifice to loose the guitar signal, but there is a perfectly usable 1/4" jack on the guitar to access the outputs from the Epiphone Alnico pcikups, and if you have really dialed in your guitar tone with your amp/rig, this is the output you want to use anyway.
Obviously, this guitar does not have the standard Gtr/Gtr+Synth/Synth selector switch. There is a small toggle switch mounted between the guitar control knobs, and this is a GK S1/S2 switch.
nice job on that flying V - looks like the route for the 13-pin was quite a trick. Is the PCB mounted under the pickguard, or hidden away elsewhere?
The pcb is mounted just in front of the mini toggle under the tone control for the internal pickups. I had to widen the cavity at that point as the wires from the 13 pin connector werent long enough to go from where I wanted the 13 pin connector to be on the wing, into the main cavity. Sooo... I used the Dremel sander to carve out enough at the bottom end of the main cavity so that the pcb could be closer to the 13 pin connector.
I just want to thank the guys on this thread ( and all the others ) for the inspiration for me to give this a try. Cheers and thankyou very much. Im doing a Rockabilly project and wanted to use a V for it but also wanted to use the VG-99 and keep the V looking as original as possible. The internal kit was the only way to go as the regular external GK-3 just looked so clunky and out of place.
Time to rock......
Nice job 8)
Quote from: Elantric on November 13, 2013, 11:36:23 PM
Many do replace S1 / S2 switches with a spring loaded (on)-off-(on) toggle (just like a Godin LGXSA / XTSA)
That was one of my questions!
Further thoughts: under performance pressure or in dim lights, a toggle is MUCH easier to locate & to orient oneself to. If it was just a matter of ergonomics, I'd consider putting in an SPDT center-off rocker. I know Cherry makes a good round one, but I haven't spotted a momentary yet (except the door lock/unlock button on my Oldsmobile).
The original "one-shot" switches are not high quality. I'm certain that better can be had from Digi-Key (they're only 40 miles away) or Mouser or whoever, an SPST momentary -- if you use them a lot, check for "mil spec," which should be rated for at least 10,000 presses. Last I checked, Mouser has good SPDT buttons from Switchcraft for under $5 each.
Good evening all.
I have a weird (to me) new issue. I normally play a guitar with an external GK3 pup into a Roland GI-20, this sends a midi in to a set of Roland PK5 bass pedals and then midi out to the midi in of a Korg TR Rack synth module. No matter what the GK3 switch (guitar/mix/synth) is doing, the bass pedals always 'play'.
I've just bought a custom Stormshadow Vanquish with an internal GK kit and a 3 way mini toggle. When it's on 'guitar' the bass pedals don't make a sound. When it's on 'mix' or 'synth' the bass pedals 'work'. No different settings on the GI-20 or Korg Rack unit
I bought a midi merge unit to plug both the GI-20 and PK-5 in at the same time, but it has the same issue! I would have thought the PK-5 midi signal would just go through the midi merge unit, regardless of what was going on with the guitar synth element.
It's now driving me completely insane as I just can't work it out? Has anyone got any ideas/thoughts/trouble shooting tips, pls?
Thanks in advance
Dave
QuoteI've just bought a custom Stormshadow Vanquish with an internal GK kit and a 3 way mini toggle. When it's on 'guitar' the bass pedals don't make a sound. When it's on 'mix' or 'synth' the bass pedals 'work'.
This is 100% the expected behavior of a properly working GK-2, GK-2A, GK-3, Roland Ready Strat, Godin xTSA, LGSA, etc, when used with a VG-8, VG-88, GI-20.
Roland products after 2003 have changed things a bit - read how to enable guitar three way switch here:
GR-55 FAQ: TOP THINGS TO KNOWhttps://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0)
Review the typical schematic of the GK-2A / GK-3 to understand what is being switched when you move the three way "Guitar/Mix/GK(Synth) switch.
When the three way is in the Synth position, the Guitar signal is shunted to Ground (Muted).
When the three way is in the Guitar position, the GK-Volume Voltage Control signal on Pin #8 is shunted to Ground (Muted).
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Suggest leave the Three way switch in the middle "Mix" position.
What do you want it to do?
I would think you'd like the guitar/mix/synth switch to give you control over guitar vs synth.
Yeah ? I dunno - I thought the GK switch had no relationship with the GI-20 and the midi signals, as it only switches the "normal guitar" analog signal off in the synth position, and sends a voltage signal to the VG/GR unit to tell it to cut the synth analog out should it be selected to function like that within the VG/GR unit.
Since the GI-20 just does GK hex pickup to midi conversion, ??
There are variations to the selector signal depending on the type of GK ( GK2a vs GK3), I don't know whether the GI-20 has a menu function to identify the different types of GK or GK compatible guitar.
QuoteSince the GI-20 just does GK hex pickup to midi conversion, ??
The Roland GI-20 complies with the same "GK Spec" as older VGs/GRs and includes a "Guitar Out" 1/4" jack - which is switched on/off by the Guitar mounted three way Guitar/Mix/GK(Synth) switch
Leave the Guitar mounted three way switch in the middle "Mix" position to avoid muting anything.
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/563 (http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/563)
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QuoteYeah ? I dunno - I thought the GK switch had no relationship with the GI-20 and the midi signals, as it only switches the "normal guitar" analog signal off in the synth position, and sends a voltage signal to the VG/GR unit to tell it to cut the synth analog out should it be selected to function like that within the VG/GR unit.
The Roland GI-20 arrived in 2003, and is among the first Roland GK units to use the GK-3/GK-3B three way switch position voltage control sent down Pin#9, and operates in the following manner
Quote
GK-3 (Pin#9) Voltage Range: (GK = 1.56V / Mix = 1.04V / Guitar = 0.52V
GK-3B (Pin#9) Voltage Range: (GK = 4.48V / Mix = 3.96V / Bass = 3.44V
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5259.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5259.0)
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GK-3's unique Pin 9 functionality explainedPrior to the GK-3 hex pickup , Pin 9 was always free and not connected. and labled "N.C." on schematics. This is true for GK-2A, Ghost, Axon, Yamaha, RMC. L.R. Baggs ,Sound Garage hex pickups with 13 pin output.
But starting with the GK-3, GK-3B, GK-Kit-GT3 (Internal) hex pickup , Roland introduced a new output control voltage transmitted on pin 9 of the 13 pin cable, based upon the current position of the 3 way "Guitar/Mix/Synth[GK]" switch
GK-3 (Pin#9) Voltage Range: (GK = 1.56V / Mix = 1.04V / Guitar = 0.52V
GK-3B (Pin#9) Voltage Range: (GK = 4.48V / Mix = 3.96V / Bass = 3.44V
The VG-99/GR-55/GI-20 interprets the GK-3's voltage change on Pin 9 of the 13 pin cable:
When you switch the three way switch from Mix to Guitar, the VG-99/GR-55/GI-20 sends out MIDI CC#7, value 0. When you switch from Guitar to Mix, it sends out CC#7, value 127.
The VG-99/GR-55/GI-20 is using these CC messages to switch the COSM guitar/PCM Synth/GTR to MIDI to "off" (when you select Guitar) and "on" (when you select Mix), but if you have other MIDI gear attached that also respond to MIDI CC messages you may encounter some interesting conflicts, so be advised
I suspect the GR-55 operates in the identical manner.
thanks to erikbojerik for this discovery
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=419.msg35936#msg35936 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=419.msg35936#msg35936)
QuoteSorry to dig up an old thread - but I have been having these same issues (no Normal PU signal with 3-way switch at "Guitar"), and have noticed something that was not discussed in the rest of the thread.
When you move the 3-position switch to Guitar, a MIDI CC message is sent out (CC#7 0). And the opposite when you switch from Guitar to Mix (CC#7 127). If you switch back & forth between Mix and Synth, no MIDI CC messages - only when you switch between Guitar and Mix.
I have a GK-3 but suspect that the other Roland Hex pickups operate in the same way. It seems these CC messages are being used by the VG-99 to set the E. Guitar COSM Vol (A & B) to zero (Guitar position) or to 100 (Mix position). Works the same way with Acoustic Guitar COSM Level.
In my case I am sending the Normal PU signal to Apple's Mainstage using the VG-99 as the audio interface via USB - keeping in mind that the USB connection is a pipe for both audio and MIDI between my Mac and the VG-99. The CC messages sent out by the 3-way switch were received by Mainstage, and being used to turn on/off the main audio input (!!), so that when I switched to "Guitar" the Mainstage inputs were essentially muted at the same time the COSM A&B were being muted, i.e. exactly when I was demanding Normal PU signal, the Mainstage input was muted!!! Took me half the day to figure that one out.
What I want to do is send the Hex output to the VG-99 and send the Normal PU output to Mainstage and control their relative volumes with the knobs on the GK and the guitar. I can do this only by getting Mainstage to ignore the CC message sent out by the GK's 3-position switch.
I also had to get Mainstage's overall Concert Volume to ignore the CC#7 messages send by both the GK's switch and its volume knob (I did this by setting it to respond to an unused MIDI channel).
This is something to check into if you're using the VG-99 together with other MIDI-controlled gear that respond to MIDI CC messages....
More details about the GK-3 is here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4729.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4729.0)[/i]
And read Page 20 of the GI-20 Owners manual
***NOTE:
When patches are switched, no signal is transmitted to
restore the Control Change value transmitted with the
previous patch. Therefore, if the same assign settings are
used for both of the patches prior to and following the
switch, the status of the controllers is carried over. However,
if the assign settings are different for the patch you are
switching to, you cannot restore the value for the Control
Change transmitted with the earlier patch, so you will need
to be aware of the following.
(Example)
The volume of a patch with CC 7 (Volume) assigned to the
expression pedal is lowered to the minimum level. After this,
if you switch to a patch with a different assign setting, since
CC 7 (Volume) is not controlled in that patch, no sound is
output, even when you press the expression pedal.
Firstly, there is some serious intellect here and I would like to thank you all for your time and effort in your responses - so thank you.
My issue is with the bass pedals. External GK-3 mix position has no effect on the bass pedals triggering the synth module. The internal GK pick up does, and even when I go internal GK-3 to GI-20 to midi merge and PK-5 to midi merge then both into synth, the mix position on the internal GK3 'shuts off' the PK-5's?
It has me stumped that the external pick up has no effect on the bass pedals but that the internal pickup does
Seriously, thanks all for taking the time to read and respond. What a place!
Dave
UK
By the way, this is the new Stormshadow Vanquish custom. Guitar building genius from Sheffield, UK. www.stormshadowguitarworks.co.uk (http://www.stormshadowguitarworks.co.uk). Insanely good!
Hang on..!! I may have 'twigged' (it's only taken me all night thinking about it!!)
If the internal pickup sends a voltage on pin 9 when toggled between guitar and synth, and if the GI-20 sees this and sends a Midi cc message to the synth module, then no matter how I hook it all up, the bass pedals won't 'work' as the synth module has received a midi CC #7 value of 0! If that's the case, can I simply remove pin 9 from the GKC 13 pin cable?!
If so, is it a case of simply cutting the metal pin 9 from the end of the cable chassis?
Thoughts?
Dave
Dave, are you sure the internal is a GK-3 and not a GK-2 or GK-2a? From what I'm reading here, the GK-2a leaves pin 9 open, and the GK-3 uses pin 9. Since you know that your external is a GK-3, and the internal behaves differently, it seems to me that the internal may not be a GK-3. I'd check with the builder to verify the model of the internal kit, or try to check voltage on pin 9 from each pickup, before making any modifications.
Hiya - internal is deffo a GK3 Kit, am looking at the external unit (I have guitars fitted with both an external GK3 and a GK-2A) and the one which let me play the bass pedals regardless of guitar/synth selection switch was the GK2A, so it's looking awfully like the pesky pin 9 on the GK3 is the issue, sending voltage and thus the GI-20 is sending a CC#7 message to the Korg module!
I confess I'm still terribly confused what you're trying to do... It's not stated...
Are you trying to keep all midi devices playing, even when the switch is on "Guitar"?
If so... Why?
QuoteIf that's the case, can I simply remove pin 9 from the GKC 13 pin cable?!
Sure - a few folks do, and then carefully repurpose Pin#9 as a separate analog Ground as the only Ground is the large round shell on the male plug.
But this discussion reminds me of the "Doc it hurts when I move my arm" - and the reply is "so don't move your arm.
Why not leave the Guitar mounted 3 way in the Mix position, and use other means to switch guitar and synths.
Also I might add - for my own needs I have fought my own battle with time and money buying and exploring service manuals simply to get to the bottom of why my GK-3 three way switch does not work with latest gear (VG-99/GR-55) just to achieve the old 1990's functionality of the VG-8 GK-2A functionality.
I want my controls to actually perform their labeled function.
At a live gig i work the guitar controls and I desire
GK-3 three way switch at "Guitar" = Normal Mag pickup Guitar tones ONLY
GK-3 three way switch at "Mix" = Normal Mag pickup Guitar tones AND Synth Tones and/or COSM Modeling
GK-3 three way switch at "GK(Synth)" = Synth Tones and/or COSM Modeling ONLY.
Sorry - my fault for not being clear.
I want to have the bass pedals always available, regardless of whether the GK selector switch is on Guitar/mix/synth. There are plenty of songs where am playing normal electric guitar but want to trigger the Korg module via the bass pedals.
GK2A pick up makes no difference to the bass pedals playing the synth module
Internal GK3 pick up effectively turns the synth volume to 0 when in 'guitar' selection via a cc#7 message, sent via the GI-20
Dave
Are you afraid you'll accidentally switch it into guitar mode?
I really appreciate the ability to go guitar, synth, or both, at the flip of a switch. (US-20 quirks aside...)
QuoteI want to have the bass pedals always available, regardless of whether the GK selector switch is on Guitar/mix/synth. There are plenty of songs where am playing normal electric guitar but want to trigger the Korg module via the bass pedals.
Myself - i would get a separate MIDI tone module and dedicate it to Bass pedals, with no MIDI path from my Guitar system.
Sounds like disabling pin 9 on the GK3 is the easiest solution. Alternatively, perhaps you can find a GK2 internal board and swap it in place of the GK3 board on the internal kit. It looks like the GK Connector-A cable would also have to be swapped, but the rest of the connectors appear to be the same. Please note I have NOT tried mixing components, so this may be a bad idea.
Hiya all - I have pondered on buying a separate synth module for the bass pedals, but seems like removing pin 9 from the cable (or snip it in the internal wiring of the GK3) will do the trick and have it do what it used to do with the GK2A, plus - a tad less expensive!
Many, many thanks for the time and effort from you guys to understand my issue!
Cheers!
Dave
Quoteso it's looking awfully like the pesky pin 9 on the GK3 is the issue, sending voltage and thus the GI-20 is sending a CC#7 message 0 (volume zero = mute no sound) to the Korg module!
QuoteSolution is snip pin9 off in the internal wiring of the GK3)
Thats what I would do.
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I am VERY slow on the pickup here (excuse the pun)... Please forgive the extra time it's taking me to connect the dots...
The problem is that the GK selector assumes all signals - synth & guitar - are coming from your GK. The Guitar setting (due to the GI-20 behavior you describe) effectively turns off all MIDI devices, including **downsteam** MIDI devices. MIX and SYNTH settings xmit the guitar MIDI performance, which is undesired. This makes perfect sense based on Elantric's description of the GK3 vs GK2 above.
In your case, you want to be able to play your guitar and also play your synth - but have your synth driven by the bass pedals (your feet), not the guitar/GK.
So if I'm understanding this correctly, you almost need a 4th GK switch setting, for "MIX (other MIDI controller)", in which GK MIDI output is disabled, MIDI CC7 Vol is NOT zeroed out, but the guitar is sent out.
I'd also be tempted to consider an MSEPP, Midi Solutions Event Processor ( or Event Processor Plus). I have one, and it is perfect for dealing with all kinds of MIDI quirks. You can program it to do almost anything you want, such as filter out CC#7 0 messages.
Although it's a little pricey, you'll likely find other uses for it down the road.
And you don't have to destroy a cable or GK3.
http://www.midisolutions.com/prodevp.htm (http://www.midisolutions.com/prodevp.htm)
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...then I just thought "screw it" and went and bought a Roland JV2080 rack unit so that the guitar can trigger that while the bass pedals trigger the Korg TR unit. Bollocks to pin 9 and cutting wires!!
More gear and another channel or two on the desk for me...!!!
So just to recap.. so I'm not missing anything.
I just bought a GR55 synth that came with a GK3 pickup. I set it up and the 3 way switch, when switched to guitar does not work. I know the guitar pickups are sending information because within the patch, when the internal PU activated only.. the guitar pickups come through just fine.
This is a known Roland issue where they couldn't get their own $#!+ to work?
Is this something a Roland service center has no fix for?
Thanks.. just a bit frustrating since I was in a writing session last week and due to time constraints actually took the unit to a local shop to trouble shoot it... and wound up buying a second brand new GK3 pickup to "fix" the issue only to get it back to the studio and discover that it didn't work either.
QuoteSo just to recap.. so I'm not missing anything.
I just bought a GR55 synth that came with a GK3 pickup. I set it up and the 3 way switch, when switched to guitar does not work. I know the guitar pickups are sending information because within the patch, when the internal PU activated only.. the guitar pickups come through just fine.
This is a known Roland issue where they couldn't get their own $#!+ to work?
Is this something a Roland service center has no fix for?
.
This same question gets asked several times a month
find all answers here:
* How to enable "Normal Guitar Pickups" and make the GK-3 Guitar/Mix/Synth three-way switch work with the GR-55:https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0)
GR-55 FAQ: TOP THINGS TO KNOWhttps://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.0)
Quote
Thanks.. just a bit frustrating since I was in a writing session last week and due to time constraints actually took the unit to a local shop to trouble shoot it... and wound up buying a second brand new GK3 pickup to "fix" the issue only to get it back to the studio and discover that it didn't work either.
Tell your shop to read this thread below to get up to speed with the gear they sell!
* How to enable "Normal Guitar Pickups" and make the GK-3 Guitar/Mix/Synth three-way switch work with the GR-55:https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3402.0)
Quote from: admsustainiac on March 11, 2014, 12:11:53 PM
This same question gets asked several times a month
Thanks.. sorry for the repeat question. I did search the information provided with both units... and actually joined this forum to answer this exact question. Hopefully everyone that asks this same question is a new member that will stick around.. and get the same wonderful helping post you just provided.
Thanks a bunch!!
Welcome to the forum - Glad you found your answer!
Hey guys,
I'm looking at getting the GK-KIT-GT3 plus a synth linx jack to replace my GK-3. Does anyone have any experience mounting the GT3 kit in a strat? I don't use the trem at all so I was thinking of putting the main board in there somewhere. Do you think there'd be noise issues? Space issues? Any other issues I'm not aware of?
I'm reasonably confident with my skills but don't want to order the parts and find out I've got to route a massive hole in the guitar! :)
FYI I've had a look at that 2-part youtube install (I think it was an Ibanez though from memory). Good video.
Thanks
The circuit board will fit under the pickguard if you are using standard pots that don't hang too deep in the cavity. I'm not familiar with the Synth jack...the jack that comes with the kit requires a square hole in the side of the body that connects through to the normal strat input jack cavity. This is the most difficult part of the install for me. I've done this jack route 5 times with no issues but it makes me nervous. The rest is plug and play.
The Synth-Linx jack only requires a 15mm diameter hole..
...more info at:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8888.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8888.0)
for MORE information, send me a PM and I'll email you the Installation Instructions PDF (4mb)
..cheers,
Peter
This is how I did my strat a while ago 8)
(Gumbo I did not know you by then, I should have mounted your connector ;D
One more thing. Some people cut a hole in the pickguard to sunk the hex pickup through it to get a proper distance between strings and hex pickup.
I didn't have to do this since I've instead already had changed the angle of the neck becuase the screws of the Fender bridge was sticking up too much making my palm sore.
Make sure you put the connector at a good place for the stand.
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1721.jpg)
Get a Dremel tool, must have.
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1733.jpg)
Yup, in place
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1736.jpg)
Put the board here under the pick guard, make cavity room larger with the Dremel.
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1743.jpg)
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1745.jpg)
A long drill is also your best friend. Drill only by manual hand rotation
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1737.jpg)
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1738.jpg)
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1739.jpg)
Place stuff at the pickguard:
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1746.jpg)
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1747.jpg)
Mount the Hex pickup
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1753.jpg)
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1756.jpg)
Note: I bought a Volume knob for the GK pot.
I did a slight mod to the remaining Tone capacitor connections so the Tone knob affects ALL 3 Std pickups.
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1757.jpg)
DONE-DONE!!!
(https://www.primovasound.com/gfx/fender/IMG_1772.jpg)
...here's what it looks like in the edge of a "Telemods" Telecaster look-alike (now original equipment on Telemods refurbs)..
..although if you already have a Roland jack fitted in your guitar (with its four-screw mounting plate) you can bolt a Synth-Linx jack (the version with nutserts) directly to the back of the Roland mounting plate...that way you get the reliability of the S-L jack and its better ground connection, and still cover up the ugly hole you cut in your guitar way back when... ;D
Great thanks guys. I've got a David Allen loaded pickguard so I'm not sure about the pot clearance but I think I can manage if I get a dremel. And on that topic, what's the best bit for routing guitars? Does one com in the standard kit (well I think it's a standard kit here in Oz) or should I get something particular?
The Dremel site does not appear to list a 'routing' accessory kit...
http://www.dremel.com/en-au/Accessories/Pages/SubCategories.aspx?catid=2025 (http://www.dremel.com/en-au/Accessories/Pages/SubCategories.aspx?catid=2025)
although if you dig down on the lefthand menu to 'routing', you do get a list of the bits that are available
http://www.dremel.com/en-au/Accessories/Pages/SubCategories.aspx?catid=2046&catname=Router+Bits (http://www.dremel.com/en-au/Accessories/Pages/SubCategories.aspx?catid=2046&catname=Router+Bits)
..my experience has always been that you will find various retail outlets will be selective about what they are prepared to carry in stock on Dremel stuff..it also varies between branches of the same store (Bunnings is a good example..!!....they have 'big' warehouse stores and smaller ones as well, and the stocks vary considerably).
You may well have to find one that has a reasonable range and just pick out what you want..the basic 'kits' that include the Dremel tool itself are usually full of very 'general' accessories that may not be all that suitable for what you want to do...but bear in mind that not a lot of hacking about is really necessary on a Strat body..there's quite a bit of room under the pickguard already.
CodeSmart's pix show good practices of masking up everything heavily prior to plugging in the Dremel.. :o
...it looks a lot nastier than it really is.. ;)
Good planning is as important as good technique.. Ask questions if you are unsure of what you have to do..
HTH
Peter
I recommend:
Get the synthlinx jack x2. Definitely. This is for audio plus it's a better installation. You can drill a smallish hole rather than hog out a huge square of wood. You need to do something about the horrible ground problem and the SL jack solves this without having to do anything else. Also I like it because it makes me feel like I'm doing something to improve the ridiculous 13-pin situation (Roland's bad connector choice)
Use the other SL jack in your modeler.
I also made pin 9 a redundant ground connection. Probably overreaction to the shitty Roland stock solution. The SL jacks alone take care of this problem. I'm no engineer, so one of the only tricks I know to make my stuff more reliable is redundancy. If you have no other plans for that pin, (E.g. the GK/Guitar/Mix switch) use it for ground IMHO.
Mount the board in the main cavity. Just plan what you want to go where and work slowly. If you are really having trouble fitting the PCB, you can easily measure and route the whole cavity a little deeper. You don't really even have to mount the PCB - just insulate it electronically. There will be plenty of tension from the hookup wire to hold it in place. That's kinda ghetto but realistic IMO
You'll want to use a brad point or Forstner bit to drill the whole, this will protect you from chipping the finish. The kit doesn't come with a bit
Hey guys thanks for the help, install went pretty good (took a day and a half!); however I'm having an issue with my pickup selector (I've got new strings on the guitar and don't want to pull them off just to look).
I re-wired the guitar to have one tone control so I could fit the GK volume pot in, however now the M+N position is M only so I've lost one of the quack settings. I.e. my pickup selector goes:
1. Bridge
2. B+M
3. Middle
4. Middle (but should be M+N)
5. Neck
Could this be something to do with the tone control re-wiring or is it likely that I've accidentally connected/disconnected something during the install?
Thanks
More likely a bad 5 way switch
Try desoldering the tone control from the circuit and retest.
Most want the tone control to be a master tone control - wired to the Normal PU Vol Pot
--
Roland Ready Strat service manual might help as a guide
http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/stratocaster/013-4660C_SISD.pdf (http://support.fender.com/service_diagrams/stratocaster/013-4660C_SISD.pdf)
Thanks. It turns out it was the switch. When I put it in the guitar (tight fit with the GK-KIT-GT3), the wire attached to the neck pickup was twisting one of the connectors a little and therefore the switch wasn't connecting to it in position 4. I re-soldered the neck pickup connection from the other side of the switch and it's all good :)
Hello All. My local Luthier just installed my new gk3 internal kit. Their seems to be an issue, the magnetic pickups were wired and working properly when i got to the shop to test, the Gk itself was fine but i wasn't getting any magnetic blend, it seems he didnt install the grey/white wire to the mag volume and ground( he thought it was part of the wiring for active pickups) so he soldered them in now i have synth/mix/and mags but, both magnetic pickups are on in all 3 positions and the are working from 1 volume pot only. Does anyone have a clue about this?
Refer him to follow the Installation manual notes here on this 14 page thread
and read the Schematics thread
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2102014%2F1406757525_319612237_GC1_SCHEMATIC.PNG&hash=6be9691ec1e0b69e78b624067f3592974e6deb43)
Thanks Elantric, I will have him review this, I wish roland provided better information for wiring these kits WITH the kit, the Gk side is quite clear, but the magnetic side leaves something to be desired. attach to volume and earth for the Magnetic side is slightly vague in a multi volume, tone, coil tapped, setup, i even had him take out taps out to eliminate those possibilities.
rather clear here - I suggest you wire it like the GC-1 here:
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2102014%2F1406757525_319612237_GC1_SCHEMATIC.PNG&hash=6be9691ec1e0b69e78b624067f3592974e6deb43)
Yes this is much better than what roland provides with the kit, but this is a single volume setup is there an simple way to add another vol for les paul style setup? my luthier should know (I hope LOL) otherwise i can live with single vol and tone, actually can live with single vol lol.
Has anyone done a Gk3 internal kit connected to a pair of split coil humbuckers, i could really use some advice, roland doesn't seem to have any info on this i have looked at the gc1 schematic many times but i still cant wrap my head around how to implement coil taps into this setup while retaining full functionality of the synth/guitar/mix switch ???
romero, the coil taps are happening upstream from the GK3 internals. With or without the tap you feed one signal to the GK3. Keep it simple, wire the pickups to your push/pull pot to implement the wire tap and finalize your setup with signal going to to your regular 1/4 output jack. Once you reach a point where your guitar is playing well with the wiretap in place, simply wire the signal from your 1/4 jack to the GK unit as shown in the diagram from Elantric on the lower left corner. GK should not care whether or not you have wiretap or how the upstream magpu signal is generated. Hope this helps.
Thanks so much for the advice MCK. What you said makes perfect sense. I had a local guitar luthier do the routing/wiring job, he did have both systems functioning fine separately but he couldn't get them to work together, i will try my other local guy and use your advice on wiring, If he can't do it or doesn't want to i will just buy a few extra tools i need to do it my self lol ( i normally do all my own basic wiring )
Thanks again
Romero
The GK wiring must be too complicated for him.
It should be just a matter of tapping into the regular guitar wiring either at the volume pot or the output jack.
Yup. Elantric's diagram, lower left corner. Simple wiring from jack and you're done. I know sometimes grounding can become a little challenge but you can cross that bridge when you get to it. Best of luck!
Hey guys has anyone had a problem with the normal guitar signal in the internal kit? My original query here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=18712.0;topicseen (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=18712.0;topicseen)
Thanks
On Roland's website it says this kit works with the gr-20. What about the gr-55? Does it have all the functions of a GC-1 or external gk-3 and far as scrolling through banks and so on? Thank you great forum!
Yes , just use the "GK-3" setting on the processor
All GK-3 controls and operation features exist on the internal kit
But know internal GK-KIT-GT3 kits are now discontinued and rare.
Quote from: Elantric on September 28, 2016, 08:52:20 AM
Yes , just use the "GK-3" setting on the processor
All GK-3 controls and operation features exist on the internal kit
But know internal GK-KIT-GT3 kits are now discontinued and rare.
The remaining stock on Amazon just rose in price by $48 or so in the last few days. If anyone is contemplating, now is probably the time.
Hello :)
When I used the GK-3, it worked great.When I got the Roland kit that installs inside the guitar, I get a hum. It is not very loud; but it's not good. It's a definite tone; a "B" note.
I had the two best guys in town try to diagnose it. They checked the ground etc. We kept A/B-ing it back and forth between the installed and an extra GK-3 I own. Do you have any ideas of what could be the problem?
I appreciate your help.
Thank you,
Terry
Could be a ground loop
I'd start reading here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133.0
And here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17111.0
Hello,
concerning
Re: Internal GK-KIT-GT3 Installation questions
« Reply #348 on: October 12, 2016, 08:34:20 PM »
I am not using any of the vg8 switches because I am running straight out to a RMC fanout box then into a preamp. So there is no VG8 floor effects involved. The regular GK-3 had no hum but then I switched to the roland onboard internal kit and got the hum. I have no other pickups hooked up either.
Same response applies
Refer your local tech to follow the Internal GK-KIT-GT3 Installation suggestions on this 14 page thread
and read the Schematics thread
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73.0)
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F2102014%2F1406757525_319612237_GC1_SCHEMATIC.PNG&hash=6be9691ec1e0b69e78b624067f3592974e6deb43)
Quote
I am not using any of the vg8 switches because I am running straight out to a RMC fanout box then into a preamp. So there is no VG8 floor effects involved. The regular GK-3 had no hum but then I switched to the roland onboard internal kit and got the hum. I have no other pickups hooked up either.
You may have a ground loop creating hum
can be tough to debug it
steps involved explained here:
Fix Ground Loop Hum
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2078.0
Have you wired in the guitar internal grounding?, so the metal hardware (bridge, strings, etc...) are grounded.
QuoteHave you wired in the guitar internal grounding?, so the metal hardware (bridge, strings, etc...) are grounded.
Agreed!
Just put a GK-3 internal kit into my Lefty SG. I got it all routed( moved the selector to the upper bout, like a Les Paul) and wired , then realized the small board is to thick with the connectors attached.
Now I have to route an extention cavity beside the control cavity.
I also exchanged the GK-3 pickup for the Shadow from my Autotune internal kit. Pictures to follow when I'm done
Next up the Autotune Kit in my regular synth guitar
Just finished a GK3 internal kit installation. Everything is working fine except the GK's 3 way selector switch does work in the intended way
Interestingly it seems to instead trigger the GP10's expression pedal, looking back at this happy accident I'm wondering if it's possible to assign the 3 way selector switch to trigger CTL3, CTL4, CTL5 for example. This way I could activate reverb/ echo using the switch instead of tapping with my feet
Has anybody tried this or know if it is possible?
For some reason Roland's website list of operating manuals has no entry for GK-KIT-GT, but it does have one for the bass version. By editing the URL, I was able to locate the former at -
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf (https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf)
Quote from: Christoplast on October 22, 2018, 04:54:46 AM
For some reason Roland's website list of operating manuals has no entry for GK-KIT-GT, but it does have one for the bass version. By editing the URL, I was able to locate the former at -
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf (https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/GK-KIT-GT3_OM.pdf)
The most complete version is the German one here
includes a full schematic on last page
https://images.thomann.de/pics/prod/183640_gk_kit_gt3_install_g.pdf
Ach, jawohl, the German manual does seem more thorough. Perfect for modding my Höfner Verythin!
The most complete version is the German one here
includes a full schematic on last page
https://images.thomann.de/pics/prod/183640_gk_kit_gt3_install_g.pdf
Hello.
I've a question: it's possible install the gk internal without the gk vol pot? Can I simply omit the connection on the master board or it's necessary shortcut the signal wires?
Thank you in advance
Quote from: vero70 on August 02, 2020, 02:58:04 AM
Hello.
I've a question: it's possible install the gk internal without the gk vol pot? Can I simply omit the connection on the master board or it's necessary shortcut the signal wires?
Thank you in advance
The GK VOL is a crucial important element
without it, you get no sound from the connected GK Processor.
You could omit the 50K pot , and short pins 1 & 2 on CN-8 GK VOL PCB input connector
See lower left
(https://s6.postimg.cc/rp95h30rz/GK-_KIT-_GT-3.png)
I'm talking to my friend Simon about a minimal GK-KIT install on a PitBull Strat kit. Who is probably lurking on this thread ... ;D
If any of you have a GK-KIT installed on a Strat, would you mind taking a photo of the pickup mounting and posting here or sending me via PM? If you have any photos of the install, they would be welcome too, but please don't dismantle your guitar on my account ...
TIA
Steve
(https://i.postimg.cc/7PmNqT60/ibasgk04.jpg)
http://www.gs-universe.com/repair/guitar_synthesizer.html
http://studiogream.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-277.html?sp
http://www7.plala.or.jp/tangerine-gtr/repair/r22.html
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133.0;attach=22595;image)
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33047222984.html
Hi, has anyone installed a GK-3 kit into a guitar with 24v active pups?
Quote from: Unlimbo on August 12, 2021, 02:44:02 AM
Hi, has anyone installed a GK-3 kit into a guitar with 24v active pups?
Use a separate power on /off switch for the 24 v pickups
Avoid using the built in FET power switch section in the GK-KIT-GT3
Quote from: admin on April 23, 2021, 09:33:57 AM
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133.0;attach=22595;image)
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33047222984.html
Having had a good look at these in the past, I can tell you that there's no easy way to effect a soldered connection to the metal outer casing in order to complete the Ground Circuit.
...yes you can scrape off the plating and tin it so that the solder will stick, but the heat from the soldering process will probably do some unwelcome things to the plastic centerpiece... ...unless you've got a line on solder that melts at 50 degrees.... ::)
...just saying.. :-*
Quote from: Elantric on July 30, 2012, 06:00:50 PM
Correct -
80% of the time I play my Frankenstrat into normal FX and amps, but when I use a 13 pin cable to feed VG-99 / GR-55 - I do use a dummy 1/4 plug inserted into the normal 1/4" output jack to turn on the two 9V batteries.
So does your Frankenstrat pump 18v into your GK board when you run it with a dummy plug in?
Quote from: Unlimbo on September 04, 2021, 01:20:39 PM
So does your Frankenstrat pump 18v into your GK board when you run it with a dummy plug in?
The GK board would get powered from the synth unit via the 13-pin cable....7 volts across pins 12 and 13..
Hi Gumbo, that's not what I meant - when using just the GK cable on a guitar with 18v pups, doesn't the 18v pass through the circuit board ?
If you're referring to the audio output signal from your 18v powered pickups, there's no reason to expect that to be beyond the normal millivolt range.
I have EMGs running on 9 volts which can be run on 18 volts. This voltage is not presented at the audio output.
I'm glad you've asked this as I also found this on EMGs site:
QuoteIf you have room for multiple batteries in your guitar, you can use two 9v batteries wired in series to run your pickups at 18 volts. The output level will not improve significantly, but you'll have increased headroom and crisper transients. This is especially useful for percussive/slap bass styles where you can generate enormous instantaneous power levels across the entire frequency spectrum.
Quote from: Unlimbo on September 05, 2021, 01:08:43 AM
Hi Gumbo, that's not what I meant - when using just the GK cable on a guitar with 18v pups, doesn't the 18v pass through the circuit board ?
The GK board, when installed in the guitar so you can use the guitar with a GK pickup also installed, takes a 'COPY' of whatever (mag) pickup signal available within the said guitar and ALSO sends it DOWN Pin-7 of the 13-pin cable TO the synth unit.
....it's my limited understanding that the ACTIVE pickups USE the 18-or-whatever volts to generate that signal....the signal itself is not 18-or-whatever volts...otherwise when you plugged you guitar into a 'normal' amplifier using just the 1/4" jack and cable, you would run the risk of letting the smoke out of your amplifier... :o
Within the GK board, the signals input to it FROM the mag pickups ( so that it can in turn spit them out DOWN Pin-7 of the 13-pin cable TO the synth unit) have NOTHING to do with the power that the GK board NEEDS to perform its limited (!) wizardry...it gets that (7 volt) power by tapping into the power coming UP TO IT via Pins 12 & 13 of the fore-mentioned 13-pin cable.
That way, the pickups NEED their own power supply somewhere in the guitar (whatever that voltage is) to do their stuff..that power is something that exists
totally separately from anything GK-like.... this principal allows all these things to exist in a semi-harmonious way, not bothering each other or interfering with each other's potential to let their respective smoke clouds fill the stage/recording studio/garage/bedroom...leaving the guitarist to enjoy the moment of musical wonderment without being billed for a call-out fee from the local Fire Brigade.
Earlier comments about Dummy (1/4") plugs, etc. relate to the way you would want to ensure that the connection FROM your mag pickups TO the GK board is able to be interrupted (switched OFF) when you didn't want that connection to allow the circuitry of the GK board to colo(u)r the mag signal when JUST using the 1/4" output of the guitar to feed straight to a normal amplifier.
Hope this helps to understand what goes on....ask for more information if things need more explanation.
Cheers,
Peter
While I writing this, philjynx managed to condense it all to one sentence....he's good at that because he lives in Wales where they condense whole sentences into street signs...
Quote from: gumbo on September 05, 2021, 01:48:28 AM
Earlier comments about Dummy (1/4") plugs, ....
Ordinarily the preamps in EMGs are switched on by the jack plug shorting out some of the angry pixies. With a GK internal set up, no jack plug is needed to get signal to pin 7.
If you don't fit a power switch to the guitar (for the EMGs) you HAVE to put a plug (or, as we say in Wales, a plug) into the socket to release the pixies.
On my guitar, when I plug in the 25 pin lead, the EMGs are provided with 9 volts, the Nano Pi fuzz thing likewise, also the two buffers get their juice that way. Two buffers to have two entirely isolated from each other normal guitar outputs, one to pin 7 the other to pin ineitherrememberorcare.
Sorry Phil...just couldn't resist..... :-*
Quote from: gumbo on September 05, 2021, 07:47:52 AM
Sorry Phil...just couldn't resist..... :-*
Well, as luck would have it although many were sent down under for stealing sheep, we managed to hide sufficient of them to assure us of company for eternity.
Mae fy ngwraig yn ddafad hardd. Prettier na'r girfriend awstralaidd a gefais unwaith.
Quote from: philjynx on September 05, 2021, 12:12:53 PM
Mae fy ngwraig yn ddafad hardd. Prettier na'r girfriend awstralaidd a gefais unwaith.
Hahaha !! that is funny ;D Sounds like you are happy
Hi Peter, you've actually cleared up quite a lot on what's been a long running puzzle for me. I always believed that because Roland put the warning on the GK internal installation instructions that the guitar signal connection cable should not exceed 12v that the voltage used by the EMG's was transferred down the signal cable. The fact you've brought to light that the EMG's only utilise the voltage to create the signal makes sense.
One final question though, if the ground wiring in the guitar is used by the EMG's to run the voltage from the battery(s) to the pups, is there any danger of that current entering the GK circuit?
Thanks for all your help on this one here, I was worried I would have to drop from 24v back down to 9v!
David :)
(https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lnpetn2CYl5wps7tE0-OvXznmzcdACsj/view?usp=sharing)
Quote from: Unlimbo on September 05, 2021, 03:29:40 PM
...
One final question though, if the ground wiring in the guitar is used by the EMG's to run the voltage from the battery(s) to the pups, is there any danger of that current entering the GK circuit?
(https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lnpetn2CYl5wps7tE0-OvXznmzcdACsj/view?usp=sharing)
None at all.
Assuming your gear is correctly wired, GK ground = guitar ground = AC mains ground. All have zero potential between them. That or you could well be needing an ambulance or an undertaker.
I converted a GK external to internal, with EMGs, so this isn't hair brained guess work - don't be fooled by my light hearted flipancy, I take safety seriously. Just prefer not to take life (or people) seriously. ;D
BTW the GK doesn't run on 9volts. It's +7 ,0 and -7, three potentials.
Totally off the topic rails, another response to Peter's rightly posted wrong Welsh sign post.
Us Welsh are having a bit of a downer on Alan (or so you might be excused for thinking). We have this sign at the exit of every car park.
Quote from: gumbo on September 04, 2021, 06:00:09 PM
The GK board would get powered from the synth unit via the 13-pin cable....7 volts across pins 12 and 13..
A bit of belated Welsh pedantry for you Peter, it's 14 volts across pins 12 & 13....
Quote from: philjynx on May 01, 2022, 11:57:27 AM
A bit of belated Welsh pedantry for you Peter, it's 14 volts across pins 12 & 13....
If not referenced correctly that will damage the GK-3
And the pin 12 (+7VDC), and pin 13 (-7VDC) power is delivered by the connected GK Processor and referenced to the (sadly) only Ground on the GK cable, the large round DIN Shell
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133.0;attach=16610
Quote from: admin on May 01, 2022, 12:06:26 PM
.... referenced to the (sadly) only Ground on the GK cable, the large round DIN Shell...
Is there a compelling reason they didn't use +14v on just one pin which would have left a spare pin for a decently connected ground/earth? Very few devices have this ' + 0 - ' arrangement on their corded supplies.
Quote from: philjynx on May 01, 2022, 12:20:13 PM
Is there a compelling reason they didn't use +14v on just one pin which would have left a spare pin for a decently connected ground/earth? Very few devices have this ' + 0 - ' arrangement on their corded supplies.
Yes, main reason to have a split power supply is when a device (GK guitar) is plugged in to the GK unit, with no 0 volt referenced supply, you end up with a massive D.C. offset voltage briefly at the GK audio outputs until the centered supply balances the voltages (+7~0 and 0~-7), which will result in a huge "POP" at you amp output.
They could have adopted the same 3 voltage signalling that the Guitar/Mix/Synth switch uses for S1 and S2 that would have freed up a pin for ground.
Quote from: philjynx on May 01, 2022, 01:41:40 PM
They could have adopted the same 3 voltage signalling that the Guitar/Mix/Synth switch uses for S1 and S2 that would have freed up a pin for ground.
I am thankful we are still not using these
(https://www.joness.com/gr300/pics/GK-1/Roland_GK-1_06.JPG)
Quote from: gumtown on May 01, 2022, 01:52:39 PM
I am thankful we are still not using these
(https://www.joness.com/gr300/pics/GK-1/Roland_GK-1_06.JPG)
But if you are, 24 pin resources are here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=271.0
Quote from: philjynx on May 01, 2022, 01:41:40 PM
They could have adopted the same 3 voltage signalling that the Guitar/Mix/Synth switch uses for S1 and S2 that would have freed up a pin for ground.
Many did just that, in the pre GK-3 days
Details
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5259.0
Richard McClish laments this pin #9 use in the old VG-8.com interview archived here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8187.0
Quote from: gumtown on May 01, 2022, 01:52:39 PM
I am thankful we are still not using these
(https://www.joness.com/gr300/pics/GK-1/Roland_GK-1_06.JPG)
I'm already regretting removing the 25 pin arrangement I had! It suffered from being a proprietary system (me) with a supplier (me) who couldn't be arsed to make up the cables and adaptors. :)
Quote from: philjynx on May 02, 2022, 06:34:03 AM
I'm already regretting removing the 25 pin arrangement I had! It suffered from being a proprietary system (me) with a supplier (me) who couldn't be arsed to make up the cables and adaptors. :)
Sorry...didn't know you then Phil... ;D
Quote from: gumtown on May 01, 2022, 12:58:46 PM
....... which will result in a huge "POP" at you amp output.
Exactly what used to happen if I powered up my Beringer Uphoria after powering up the amp - a deafening thump.
It is now wired with its own 5v supply, so on switching on my system, it is powered up before the relatively slow to come to life amp has got going.
No more thump.
Worst device I have ever heard on power up was the Alesis Quadraverb,
it was like the D/A converter was directly connected to the CPU data bus, with a deafening digital hash noise for about 5 seconds after power on.
Quote from: gumtown on May 08, 2022, 03:20:32 PM
Worst device I have ever heard on power up was the Alesis Quadraverb,
it was like the D/A converter was directly connected to the CPU data bus, with a deafening digital hash noise for about 5 seconds after power on.
That unit used an external 20 VAC adapter, and there was an internal charge pump circuit to convert incomming AC voltage into +/- 12VDC (for the analog) and +5VDC for the CPU
It took 6 seconds for the Power supply to fully charge its electrolytic caps and provide stable DC power
See page 75
https://manualzz.com/doc/4196935/alesis-quadraverb-ii-service-manual-v2.00-12-12-95
Quote from: admin on May 08, 2022, 03:41:23 PM
That unit used an external 20 VAC adapter, and there was an internal charge pump circuit to convert incomming AC voltage into +/- 12VDC (for the analog) and +5VDC for the CPU
It took 6 seconds for the Power supply to fully charge its electrolytic caps and provide stable DC power
See page 75
https://manualzz.com/doc/4196935/alesis-quadraverb-ii-service-manual-v2.00-12-12-95
The one I had was the original Quadraverb from 1989, only thing the Quadaverb 2 had in common was only the name.
But it still ran from the same 20 V AC supply.
Quote from: gumtown on May 08, 2022, 03:20:32 PM
Worst device I have ever heard on power up was the Alesis Quadraverb,
it was like the D/A converter was directly connected to the CPU data bus, with a deafening digital hash noise for about 5 seconds after power on.
...sounds like me in the mornings.... ::)
Hi there folks, long time no see, I've bought last year the ROLAND GK-KIT-GT3, I bought a good strat (non fender) to make the installation myself, well with a little help from a friend (who worked with my luthier). I also have my fender strat roland ready as a kind of guide, which I used to figure out the position of the switches and whatnot.
I started reading the first posts in this thread, and I saw the Roland GC-1 schematics, is the only difference the switchcraft 12a jack? If I understood right that's the only difference.
I have the installation manual to scan if necessary, although I saw it already around here.
Cheers
Yes thats only difference and important to implement to retain stock guitar operation and best tone
thank you, I found a good deal on ebay, If anyone is interested Switchcraft 12A 1/4 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/230737554544?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Df0ec1af1e20f47bdaa964482a20abacc%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D230737554544%26itm%3D230737554544%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057%26brand%3DSwitchcraft&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A25e112ff-26ca-11ed-9133-4e34d3f3c7f2%7Cparentrq%3Ae45a94db1820a49aebe1f2f2fff93966%7Ciid%3A1)
I think it's used on amps and pedals? I believe is the same jack we're speaking of.
Btw
@Elantric I'm installing the Trem king on this one ;D I'll post some pics this week in the right thread
Hi, I am currently planning to install a GK3 kit in my Strandberg. Instead of the git/synth/git/synth switch shown here, I'm wondering if it can be switched to a göldo "Vario" Rotary Switch with 3 positions ( https://www.goeldo.de/en/detail/index/sArticle/7795 ). Does anyone have any idea? A rotary knob seems a bit more accident-proof than the normal switch. It's silly if you suddenly switch to the wrong setting during a live performance.
The GK three way switch actually mutes the opposite unwanted signal
Common option is use a center off DPDT switch ( like Godin, Brian Moore ) - read this internal GK Kit thread from the top for details
Mount at 90 degrees and away from strumming area to minimize accidental switch operation
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/W/MEDIAX_792452-T1/images/I/51sEgt8m0cL._SX522_.jpg)
I like a robust bat handle DPDT ON-OFF-ON switch
SALECOM Guitar or AMP Amplfier DPDT 3 Way ON OFF ON Toggle Switch Sealed Fat Bat Toggle Switch
https://www.amazon.com/SALECOM-Guitar-Amplifier-Toggle-Switch/dp/B0732SGNFZ/ref=asc_df_B0732PBRDF/
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=133.0
Could you also use a slide switch? What would you have to buy then?
Mustang (ON-OFF-ON) Slide Switch also works
(https://www.allparts.com/cdn/shop/products/EP-0261-023-w_900x600_crop_center.jpg?v=1570155823)
https://www.allparts.com/products/ep-0261-switchcraft-on-off-on-slide-switch-for-mustang