LightWave Atlantis HexFX

Started by brooster, May 24, 2011, 11:15:09 AM

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Sonnec

That article is nine years old. New bass products since then, but no new guitar products. I didn't see anything about palm-muting. Why wouldn't it work?

Elantric

Quote from: Sonnec on December 05, 2017, 08:12:41 PM
That article is nine years old. New bass products since then, but no new guitar products. I didn't see anything about palm-muting. Why wouldn't it work?


The Bridge is  hidden under a cover as it has optical pickups and is shielded from ambient light = must adopt a radical change in palm muting technique

Sonnec

Quote from: Elantric on December 05, 2017, 08:37:12 PM
The Bridge is  hidden under a cover as it has optical pickups and is shielded from ambient light = must adopt a radical change in palm muting technique


I saw a video where one of the Metal Church guys said he palm-muted higher up because he thought it sounded heavier. Agreed, I prefer touching the bridge. The bass saddles are separate, why not make the guitar saddles so? At least, the current Atlantis has a much smaller shroud:


Elantric

Quote from: Sonnec on December 07, 2017, 03:40:13 PM
I saw a video where one of the Metal Church guys said he palm-muted higher up because he thought it sounded heavier. Agreed, I prefer touching the bridge. The bass saddles are separate, why not make the guitar saddles so? At least, the current Atlantis has a much smaller shroud:




Paul Hanson video 

If you get to play one  - post a review

Been trying to get a real world opinion of the Lightwave optical PU guitar for use with GK 13 pin processors for a while now


Sonnec

#29
I read through the topic. Strange phenomenon of disappearance.

I won't buy one for its guitar sound. It sounds like a sitar, and I hate sitar. As I recall, less jangly than the Ron Hoad guitar, though.


admin


carlb

Aside from the palm muting issue, anyone have a report on how these sound for guitar modeling?
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

gumbo

Not really a whole answer Carl,but..... ;)




Cheers,
Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: gumbo on July 25, 2020, 07:50:44 AM
Not really a whole answer Carl,but..... ;)



Cheers,
Peter

Is it my imagination, or is he palm muting in the screen on the left?
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

gearhound22

Saw one of these basses up for sale locally but it doesn't have the 13 pin

Very little info on the guitar...is this a latency and ghost note fix?!?!? can't find near any info on them

gumbo

Quote from: gearhound22 on August 20, 2020, 04:48:38 PM
Saw one of these basses up for sale locally but it doesn't have the 13 pin

Very little info on the guitar...is this a latency and ghost note fix?!?!? can't find near any info on them

See:   https://www.willcoxguitars.com/

...quite a lot of info out there under the Willcox banner

HTH
Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

admin

#37
Quote from: gearhound22 on August 20, 2020, 04:48:38 PM
Saw one of these basses up for sale locally but it doesn't have the 13 pin

Very little info on the guitar...is this a latency and ghost note fix?!?!? can't find near any info on them

Not every model has a GK-13 Output

Most of the Wilcox Lightwave basses are simply optical pickup basses with a clean DI output
https://www.willcoxguitars.com/product-documentation/

https://www.willcoxguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Willcox-Guitars-LightWave-Systems-Saber-User-Manual.pdf

only specific "Hex Output" models have a the GK-13 output.

If you get one - supply a review

There is an alarming trend ( maybe coincidence) that everyone I used to know who obtained a Wilcox Lightwave Bass or Guitar tend to drop off from making contact  - then after 6 weeks request to have their VGuitarForums account deleted from the forum 

gearhound22

Quote from: admin on August 21, 2020, 08:34:23 AM
Not every model has a GK-13 Output

Most of the Wilcox Lightwave basses are simply optical pickup basses with a clean DI output
https://www.willcoxguitars.com/product-documentation/

https://www.willcoxguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Willcox-Guitars-LightWave-Systems-Saber-User-Manual.pdf

only specific "Hex Output" models have a the GK-13 output.

If you get one - supply a review

There is an alarming trend ( maybe coincidence) that everyone I used to know who obtained a Wilcox Lightwave Bass or Guitar tend to drop off from making contact  - then after 6 weeks request to have their VGuitarForums account deleted from the forum

lol

I read ...wonder if the instruments are possessed by ghosts lol

gumbo

Maybe they were all "Hex"ed by the "FX"...... :o

...if it's any consolation Steve, the one person who contacted me about one of those 13-pin Basses and wanting a new Jack, has also now chosen to stop replying to my emails...

...perhaps it's something in the water... ?

Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

GuitarBuilder

#40
Sorry about resurrecting an old post, but I have something to add!  I just bought a used Willcox Atlantis HexFX to evaluate whether it would work with my SynQuaNon hexaphonic processing modules.  For this application, a very clean and robust audio signal is required, since there is no pitch detection, synth driving, or guitar modeling.  Ideally one would connect 6 proper guitar pickups into the equivalent of 6 separate effects pedal boards; the SynQuaNon approach is to miniaturize the 6 effects pedal boards by using Eurorack modular technology.  In short, what comes out strongly depends on the audio quality of the guitar string signals going in.

My experience so far is that from that audio quality standpoint the absolute worst is a GK2A/GK3 pickup, with bridge piezo (Graph Tech, then RMC) showing better results, and finally the Cycfi Research Nu Multi v2 pickup being the best - close to studio quality audio.

Having heard and seen marketing from Lightwave, I was keen to evaluate the Atlantis HexFX for the purpose described above.  Unfortunately, it is not suitable for this application (more on that below).  The 1/4" summed output is quite good, virtually noiseless, sounding trebly like a piezo but with none of the quack.  With a healthy dose of EQ it is very good indeed.  Unfortunately, the HexFX output is not as great.  I've tried it with the GR-55, VG-99, and GP-10: firstly, crosstalk is not zero, albeit very low.  This is evident only when picking strings without muting (notice the demos have lots of palm muting) and may not be a problem for most, since one can adapt their playing style to minimize it.  I suspect the source is vibration transmitted through the bridge and/or top wood.  Secondly, in order to get good tracking one should palm mute and play quite deliberately, much like with other GK pickups, so no real advantage here.  One strange observation - the low E would sometimes trigger a sub-harmonic synth pitch, which was quite surprising (I don't get that with other GK guitars).  Third, the modeling is a mixed bag - Willcox used a home-designed 13-pin output circuit which has a fair amount of white noise in it, more so than a typical GK circuit.  This noise is actually audible in the quieter (acoustic) models and comes through into recordings.  It is not so obvious for distorted models, etc., which makes sense since they generate quite a bit of additional "noise" of their own.

This HexFX noise is what makes the Atlantis unsuitable for single-string guitar audio processing as I described above.  It is apparent in all effects (SynQuaNon modules are generally very low noise) and any DAW recordings.  I therefore do not recommend it for this application.

Having said that, the Atlantis is a good guitar that is light (pun intended!) and easy to play.  The 1/4" output is noise-free and works well with conventional pedal effects and guitar amps.  The HexFX output is a mixed bag, being OK for synths & pads, not so great with certain models, and not recommended for single-string processing.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

chrish

#41
I made an offer on a clear top Hex Atlantis that I saw on Reverb.com. The offer was refused, the guy said he was giving it away at his price of $1195, but the listing entertained offers. He said he would just keep his fine instrument.

But here is the weird thing, the listing ended right after my offer was declined.

Another disappearance.  ;D

Well good for him keeping it. Sometimes you decide its best not to sell your prized guitar.

I sent a few questions to Wilcox concerning the 14 day return policy. I wanted the flame top model anyway and they are on sale for a little over $1500.00.

The last used one sold on Reverb for $795.00.

The demo's look good tracking wise and I have no problem muting above the bridge.

anyone who is still on the Forum had a chance to demo one of these yet?


chrish

#42
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on March 17, 2021, 01:47:35 PM
Sorry about resurrecting an old post, but I have something to add!  I just bought a used Willcox Atlantis HexFX to evaluate whether it would work with my SynQuaNon hexaphonic processing modules.  For this application, a very clean and robust audio signal is required, since there is no pitch detection, synth driving, or guitar modeling.  Ideally one would connect 6 proper guitar pickups into the equivalent of 6 separate effects pedal boards; the SynQuaNon approach is to miniaturize the 6 effects pedal boards by using Eurorack modular technology.  In short, what comes out strongly depends on the audio quality of the guitar string signals going in.

My experience so far is that from that audio quality standpoint the absolute worst is a GK2A/GK3 pickup, with bridge piezo (Graph Tech, then RMC) showing better results, and finally the Cycfi Research Nu Multi v2 pickup being the best - close to studio quality audio.

Having heard and seen marketing from Lightwave, I was keen to evaluate the Atlantis HexFX for the purpose described above.  Unfortunately, it is not suitable for this application (more on that below).  The 1/4" summed output is quite good, virtually noiseless, sounding trebly like a piezo but with none of the quack.  With a healthy dose of EQ it is very good indeed.  Unfortunately, the HexFX output is not as great.  I've tried it with the GR-55, VG-99, and GP-10: firstly, crosstalk is not zero, albeit very low.  This is evident only when picking strings without muting (notice the demos have lots of palm muting) and may not be a problem for most, since one can adapt their playing style to minimize it.  I suspect the source is vibration transmitted through the bridge and/or top wood.  Secondly, in order to get good tracking one should palm mute and play quite deliberately, much like with other GK pickups, so no real advantage here.  One strange observation - the low E would sometimes trigger a sub-harmonic synth pitch, which was quite surprising (I don't get that with other GK guitars).  Third, the modeling is a mixed bag - Willcox used a home-designed 13-pin output circuit which has a fair amount of white noise in it, more so than a typical GK circuit.  This noise is actually audible in the quieter (acoustic) models and comes through into recordings.  It is not so obvious for distorted models, etc., which makes sense since they generate quite a bit of additional "noise" of their own.

This HexFX noise is what makes the Atlantis unsuitable for single-string guitar audio processing as I described above.  It is apparent in all effects (SynQuaNon modules are generally very low noise) and any DAW recordings.  I therefore do not recommend it for this application.

Having said that, the Atlantis is a good guitar that is light (pun intended!) and easy to play.  The 1/4" output is noise-free and works well with conventional pedal effects and guitar amps.  The HexFX output is a mixed bag, being OK for synths & pads, not so great with certain models, and not recommended for single-string processing.
I just ordered one. Looks like I'll cost me $75 return shipping if it doesn't work out. They are  $1415 shipped with the 10% off coupon code.

"Our Guitars and Basses are selling fast. Use coupon code 10off while inventory lasts."



So after ordering it, I saw that you had just placed yours up for sale on Reverb.

https://reverb.com/item/39495101-willcox-atlantis-hexfx-slim-electric-guitar-spruce-top-clear-gloss-gk-ready-optical-pickup-system?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12293041906&utm_content=campaignid=12293041906_adgroupid=119218509524_productpartitionid=1169427562302=merchantid=239748891_productid=39495101_keyword=_device=m_adposition=_matchtype=_creative=497396046170&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr7K59tO77wIVsh-tBh1yaAqFEAQYASABEgKPYfD_BwE

I did notice the palm muting but more significantly the demo's are done by extremely talented musicians, like Jamie Glaser who I've listened to with Chick Corea's Electric Band.


GuitarBuilder

I've had some great discussions with Jamie Glaser about the Atlantis and how he uses it with a GR-55 on stage.  He's a really nice guy!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

admin

#44
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on March 17, 2021, 01:47:35 PM
Sorry about resurrecting an old post, but I have something to add!  I just bought a used Willcox Atlantis HexFX to evaluate whether it would work with my SynQuaNon hexaphonic processing modules.  For this application, a very clean and robust audio signal is required, since there is no pitch detection, synth driving, or guitar modeling.  Ideally one would connect 6 proper guitar pickups into the equivalent of 6 separate effects pedal boards; the SynQuaNon approach is to miniaturize the 6 effects pedal boards by using Eurorack modular technology.  In short, what comes out strongly depends on the audio quality of the guitar string signals going in.

My experience so far is that from that audio quality standpoint the absolute worst is a GK2A/GK3 pickup, with bridge piezo (Graph Tech, then RMC) showing better results, and finally the Cycfi Research Nu Multi v2 pickup being the best - close to studio quality audio.

Having heard and seen marketing from Lightwave, I was keen to evaluate the Atlantis HexFX for the purpose described above.  Unfortunately, it is not suitable for this application (more on that below).  The 1/4" summed output is quite good, virtually noiseless, sounding trebly like a piezo but with none of the quack.  With a healthy dose of EQ it is very good indeed.  Unfortunately, the HexFX output is not as great.  I've tried it with the GR-55, VG-99, and GP-10: firstly, crosstalk is not zero, albeit very low.  This is evident only when picking strings without muting (notice the demos have lots of palm muting) and may not be a problem for most, since one can adapt their playing style to minimize it.  I suspect the source is vibration transmitted through the bridge and/or top wood.  Secondly, in order to get good tracking one should palm mute and play quite deliberately, much like with other GK pickups, so no real advantage here.  One strange observation - the low E would sometimes trigger a sub-harmonic synth pitch, which was quite surprising (I don't get that with other GK guitars).  Third, the modeling is a mixed bag - Willcox used a home-designed 13-pin output circuit which has a fair amount of white noise in it, more so than a typical GK circuit.  This noise is actually audible in the quieter (acoustic) models and comes through into recordings.  It is not so obvious for distorted models, etc., which makes sense since they generate quite a bit of additional "noise" of their own.

This HexFX noise is what makes the Atlantis unsuitable for single-string guitar audio processing as I described above.  It is apparent in all effects (SynQuaNon modules are generally very low noise) and any DAW recordings.  I therefore do not recommend it for this application.

Having said that, the Atlantis is a good guitar that is light (pun intended!) and easy to play.  The 1/4" output is noise-free and works well with conventional pedal effects and guitar amps.  The HexFX output is a mixed bag, being OK for synths & pads, not so great with certain models, and not recommended for single-string processing.

Thanks for the review

Everyone I know who purchased a Wilcox Lightwave GK13 guitar soon gave up on GK-13 pin systems

Now I know why

How do you Palm Mute when the Lightwave sensors are in the bridge and covered up?



Palm muting plays a large role in my style -so never considered the Wilcox design as viable for my needs

chrish

#45
Quote from: admin on March 19, 2021, 01:57:29 PM

Palm muting plays a large role in my style -so never considered the Wilcox design as viable for my needs
It looks like the bridge was made narrower than the early models so it might work for palm muting.

The manual does say that they are sensitive to light coming in down the neck. In other words it won't work with the light at that angle.

So that's a caveat to anyone who is considering gigging this guitar with a big light show heavy on the smoke fxs.

The manual also shows a calibration procedure for the optical pickups  which may be needed if you change strings from what is currently on the guitar.

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: chrish on March 19, 2021, 07:50:07 PM
The manual does say that they are sensitive to light coming in down the neck. In other words it won't work with the light at that angle.
So that's a caveat to anyone who is considering gigging this guitar with a big light show heavy on the smoke fxs.
I asked Jamie Glaser specifically about that - he has toured extensively with his Atlantis.  He did not have any issues with stage lighting; perhaps he just didn't point it up!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

chrish

Used one its way. Cancelled the new one after reading the fine print on the return policy an discovering a used one for sale from a member here.

When I asked what happens if I scratch a new one during the demo period I was told that that setup guy would have to pay for it.

But it turns out there is a 10 percent restocking fee if not returned in original condition. So with shipping it could cost as much as $215 just to demo one.




admin

#48
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=30167.msg222287#msg222287
chrish wrote>
Just received a used wilcox Atlantis hex guitar. I did some testing with the SY1000 dynamic synth defined saw. I need to Research the correct settings for the Optical pickup as there is no option to select an optical pickup.

I used the gk3 setting. The piezo setting was way worse.

Several notes glitch after a 8 second sustain.

Less glitch at a sensitivity setting up 22 vs 65.

The glitch is way more noticeable when the osc wave raised an octave to +12

Muting adjacent strings helps reduce glitch.

A quick test of Brockstar method of placing the headstock against a solid object completely eliminates the glitch, but further testing is warranted.
Tried the SY1000- 335 model and yes lots of hiss and distortion at a string sensitivity setting of 65 even though the meters aren't pegged.

That all disappeared at the lower sensitivity setting at 22.

I also just found a Hexfx GR55 setup video and it also suggests a string sensitivity setting around 20.

This was posted here on the Wilcox Atlantis thread  which I assume came from the Willcox literature.

"HexFX Edition
LightWave guitars equipped with the HexFX option have a 13-pin DIN output jack and the deck controls to enable playing through and controlling MIDI converters, hex DSP processing devices, and string fanout boxes. The LightWave output signals and deck controls on these instruments are fully compatible with the 'GK' standards for existing MIDI-ready guitars."

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: admin on April 10, 2021, 06:57:49 AM
This was posted here on the Wilcox Atlantis thread  which I assume came from the Willcox literature.

"HexFX Edition
LightWave guitars equipped with the HexFX option have a 13-pin DIN output jack and the deck controls to enable playing through and controlling MIDI converters, hex DSP processing devices, and string fanout boxes. The LightWave output signals and deck controls on these instruments are fully compatible with the 'GK' standards for existing MIDI-ready guitars."[/i]

Incredible how Willcox also calls the Atlantis a MIDI guitar!  I've already commented on the "hex DSP and string fanout boxes". 👎👎👎

Still OK for GK work......
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973