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Antares ATG Guitar Modeler / Tuning Systems => Antares Auto-Tune Guitar Top things to know => Topic started by: utensil on March 04, 2016, 11:14:19 PM

Title: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: utensil on March 04, 2016, 11:14:19 PM
Am planning to order an Antares Luthier Kit with 2 encoders to try and place in an external housing . The ATG-1 is too large so was planning on a small external box driven by the 13 pin out on my guitars.
Is there a difference in the LP or strat type DSP board? I get that the pickup spacing is different but are they supplying different boards depending on your order?
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: Elantric on March 05, 2016, 09:03:42 AM
Remember  to use the Group Buy for Antares Internal Kit
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=16603.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=16603.0)

There is no difference in the internal Kit DSP boards (LP vs Strat)

The big deal is the string Spacing of the Mag Hex PU - you can choose Strat wide spacing ( same as GK3) or a narrower Gibson string spacing Mag hex PU.

Once you get it installed you use the ATG Program Editor in Luthier Mode , which exposes controls for changing scale length and PU placement. And how many encoders you use - I ordered the 2 encoder version

And remember the ATG internal DSP board supports piezo PUs too. ( if you prefer)
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: GuitarBuilder on March 05, 2016, 09:21:37 AM
Quote from: utensil on March 04, 2016, 11:14:19 PM
Am planning to order an Antares Luthier Kit with 2 encoders to try and place in an external housing . The ATG-1 is too large so was planning on a small external box driven by the 13 pin out on my guitars.
Is there a difference in the LP or strat type DSP board? I get that the pickup spacing is different but are they supplying different boards depending on your order?

Also keep in mind that the switch is different for the two kits.  One other consideration is that our 13 pin guitars' output is not directly compatible with the Antares board; it cannot supply the voltage needed by GK and the output level is higher than is expected, which necessitates the use of attenuators.
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: utensil on March 05, 2016, 09:54:20 AM
Hey thanks, yes am planning to make a similar attenuation as for the 13 pin to fish man triple play adapter. With the fish man triple play the actual tone that gets through is not too important as it's mainly for pitch detection. In this case though the actual tone will affect the modeled sounds so will have to give it a bit of thought. Might consider making an external box housing both the triple play and Antares kit driven via same 13 pin port. I think that with a MacBook running  main stage would be a pretty versatile rig.
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: abhijitnath on March 22, 2016, 02:18:51 PM
Hi,

Very interested in this. Would you also build in MIDI control into the external box?

Also, is there any difference between this and hacking up a AT-200 guitar? The latter seems to be a cheaper option...

EDIT: Saw the Group buy post- now there isn't!:)
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: Elantric on March 22, 2016, 02:44:13 PM
MIDi control can occur just like the MIDI control for ATG Luthier kit - ( RTM)

They recommend a Peavey AT-200 MIDI Sync Cable
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ebayimg.com%2Fimages%2Fg%2FmvEAAOSwT%7E9Wl9Fu%2Fs-l500.jpg&hash=8d126db2a322af76501431cb9173d33de176394e)



VGuitarForums Group Buys are here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=175.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=175.0)
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: abhijitnath on March 22, 2016, 03:56:57 PM
Just did a quick RTFM. So the luthier kit has an analog out and an 8 pin MIDI out but no 13 pin out?

If I want to feed an external box, I will have put 13 pin input into an attenuator that then goes into where the board would normally "see" the input from the luthier kit's hex pickup?
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: Elantric on March 22, 2016, 04:00:53 PM
It's true with ATG internal kit ,  we must "roll our own" GK13 pin output solution

A few are doing this inside a guitar
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15974.0)

Easiest is run the Antares mag Hex PU to feed two target boards ( ATG Luthier Kit + GK-KIT-GT3)

Get the GK-KIT-GT3 for $135 from Anderton's UK
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11241.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11241.0)
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: abhijitnath on March 23, 2016, 05:26:03 PM
That thread is very interesting. I wanted to retain the flexibility to use it with different guitars (which have different pickup systems in them, one RMC, one GK-3). Is there a way to allow for that?
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: Elantric on March 23, 2016, 05:30:52 PM
QuoteThat thread is very interesting. I wanted to retain the flexibility to use it with different guitars (which have different pickup systems in them, one RMC, one GK-3). Is there a way to allow for that?
Employ a similar strategy as used for the DIY GK13 pin input to drive FTP
Read Utensils's Details here
FTP - DIY adapter to use GK 13 Pin Guitars with Tripleplay
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.0 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.0)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.msg78842#msg78842 (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8413.msg78842#msg78842)


Or buy the ATG-1
(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F3402014%2F1417989490_633926875_20141206_164018.jpg&hash=8dc9b0b12cb41eddb667df7e1ee4137164ebcf48)

(https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.snapagogo.com%2Fuploads%2Fsource%2F162015%2F1421456563_1341903624_atg2.PNG&hash=c401c4024fa09156f621069560fd161ba55a49eb)
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: Majiken on June 04, 2016, 11:36:18 AM
If I could use the ATG-1 as a standard midi controller I could live with the footprint- but if I read correctly elsewhere, that is neither possible now nor in the cards for the future, right  :-[?
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: abhijitnath on October 15, 2016, 07:04:58 PM
Quick question- if you rehouse the internal kit, there is no 13-pin out (to plug into a GP-10, for example) like the floor pedal, right?
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: Majiken on October 16, 2016, 05:02:01 AM
Correct, not on the kit as it exists- but I am going to planning to split the signal from the hex pickup to go parallel into the ATG PCB and a 13-pin jack.  This will put 3 jacks on the guitar: the 13-pin for Roland and related equipment, the 1/4" output with the processed ATG sound, and the seldom-to-be used 8-pin midi jack for updates & ipad control.

Note that the 13-pin jack will be a straight hex-through signal not containing ATG content; I believe this is the same as the ATG-1.
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: GuitarBuilder on October 16, 2016, 09:46:26 AM
Quote from: Majiken on October 16, 2016, 05:02:01 AM
Correct, not on the kit as it exists- but I am going to planning to split the signal from the hex pickup to go parallel into the ATG PCB and a 13-pin jack.  This will put 3 jacks on the guitar: the 13-pin for Roland and related equipment, the 1/4" output with the processed ATG sound, and the seldom-to-be used 8-pin midi jack for updates & ipad control.

Note that the 13-pin jack will be a straight hex-through signal not containing ATG content; I believe this is the same as the ATG-1.

I got all the way to this point and realized that I couldn't use the 13-pin and ATG signals simultaneously; it's one or the other if you don't want to be out of tune with yourself! ;D
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: Majiken on October 16, 2016, 12:39:22 PM
Chorus from hell  :P
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: GuitarBuilder on October 16, 2016, 01:11:15 PM
Quote from: Majiken on October 16, 2016, 12:39:22 PM
Chorus from hell  :P

Like a middle school band performance.... ;D
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: whippinpost91850 on October 16, 2016, 03:54:13 PM
What about if you don't use the auto tune function
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: GuitarBuilder on October 16, 2016, 04:20:09 PM
I don't think ATG without auto tune is all that exciting; you would be better off with a VG-99 IMHO.
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: abhijitnath on October 16, 2016, 08:33:03 PM
Quote from: Majiken on October 16, 2016, 05:02:01 AM
Correct, not on the kit as it exists- but I am going to planning to split the signal from the hex pickup to go parallel into the ATG PCB and a 13-pin jack.  This will put 3 jacks on the guitar: the 13-pin for Roland and related equipment, the 1/4" output with the processed ATG sound, and the seldom-to-be used 8-pin midi jack for updates & ipad control.

Note that the 13-pin jack will be a straight hex-through signal not containing ATG content; I believe this is the same as the ATG-1.

Bummer. I'm actually interested in an external box rather than one mounted on the guitar, and am trying to figure whether to buy the internal kit and house it, or buy the pedalboard and cut some wires. I'm just scared to do the latter in case I flush $500 down the toilet:(.
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: Elantric on October 17, 2016, 09:45:18 AM
QuoteI don't think ATG without auto tune is all that exciting; you would be better off with a VG-99 IMHO.

If using a different ALT Tuning for each song is something you do at live shows, then the Antares systems are the best at achieving that with a DSP "warble free".

And i think Antares Guitar modeling (both Acoustic and Electric models ) is very convincing with more dynamic range and less "hiss" at all volume levels compared to Line-6 or Roland / Boss systems.

one of my tests was feeding ATG-1 into a pair of ZT LunchBox Amps  - and I had convincing Les Paul, Strats, DanElectro  sounds   

The Antares Auto Tune I can take or leave.

Many folks think the whole point of the Antares ATG system is the "String Tune" system which is a constant effort of a DSP analyzing each string in real time and to output  "perfectly tuned notes and chords  in tune for all chord positions up and down the neck - while this is neat, its not a crucial attraction to me.

But its true that if Antares String Tune is activated on ATG-1 , then your downstream GK 13 pin connected Guitar to MIDI systems (GP-10, Axon, VG-99, GR-55) may sound sour, because the resulting output of the Antares DSP is only heard from the 1/4" output on internal Kit or dual 1/4" output jacks on ATG-1 - and that may be a different pitch than the genuine pitch of the strings that are feeding the ATG-1 GK-13 Output   - you may hear a warble or clash when those sounds are combined         
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: whippinpost91850 on October 17, 2016, 10:29:23 AM
I haven't tried it, is  the 13 pin output on ATG-I a pass through signal? Or does it apply whatever tuning you have on the ATG-1 to the 13 pin out
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: Elantric on October 17, 2016, 11:59:46 AM
13 pin output on ATG-I is just a pass through signal
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: whippinpost91850 on October 17, 2016, 01:02:31 PM
Thanks That's what I figured
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: TravisWildcard on January 15, 2017, 11:43:31 PM
I know this is an old thread but has anyone pulled this off yet? I  just want to take advantage of the Antares features and I'm not worried about feeding a synth.  Is it possible for me to use the hex pickup included with the kit and run a longer cable to a box on my paddleboard with the rest of the kit installed?

I'm new here but I've been poking around reading for a while.  Thank you to everyone who takes the time to contribute to these kinds of message boards.  They are such a great resource to have!
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: Majiken on January 16, 2017, 02:27:34 AM
I got the luthier kit installed in a guitar; from that experience I would not recommend putting the kit into an external box, as much of the control comes from push-pull switches on the volume and tone pots to be controlled by hand.  I got a chance to briefly test the ATG-1, and I found the layout sensible and ergonomic for foot control, albeit with a footprint beyond available space on my board (I think they have full midi switching in the meantime, which could compensate a good deal for the size).

I haven't looked at the ATG-1 innards, but if you want it on the floor I would really recommend buying one and making a smaller package for that as opposed to trying to reengineer foot control for a hand-controlled design.  My 2 cents.....  ;)
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: TravisWildcard on January 18, 2017, 05:21:27 AM
Thanks for the input! My thoughts were to do all of the control via midi. The main hub of my pedalboard is a line 6 Helix. I'm already using it to change patches in mainstage. Should be easy enough to send midi messages to the Antares box to change tunings and engage string tube right?
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: Majiken on January 18, 2017, 05:56:43 PM
With my extremely limited tech abilities, from what I can see the answer should be yes for anyone savvy (I can imagine this would make CodeSmart yawn).  I love the concept and the sound of the GP-10, but I hate the darn warbles.  I put the luthier kit in a guitar, but discovered that means I have to make changes by hand; this works quickly, but I do miss the idea of just hitting one switch and changing everything.

Now when I think about it, if you can get that working in a box on the floor I should be able to plug in a midi cable to the guitar and get the same thing, right???? Tempting idea!
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: GuitarBuilder on May 21, 2017, 09:00:02 PM
Quote from: Majiken on January 18, 2017, 05:56:43 PM
With my extremely limited tech abilities, from what I can see the answer should be yes for anyone savvy (I can imagine this would make CodeSmart yawn).  I love the concept and the sound of the GP-10, but I hate the darn warbles.  I put the luthier kit in a guitar, but discovered that means I have to make changes by hand; this works quickly, but I do miss the idea of just hitting one switch and changing everything.

Now when I think about it, if you can get that working in a box on the floor I should be able to plug in a midi cable to the guitar and get the same thing, right???? Tempting idea!

I take it you haven't tried the MIDI Designer on iPad to control your ATG?
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: DLC86 on November 21, 2018, 10:05:41 AM
Hi, I'm resurrecting this thread cuz I'm going to place my ATG board in an external box soon, but I have a question for you:
Is it a good idea to send the signal of the mag hex pickup to the board thru a 5 meters long multicore cable (capacitance 120pF/m) or do I need a buffer/preamp in the guitar?
I don't mind a bit of treble roll-off if the effect of the cable is similar to that of a normal guitar pickup, I just want to be sure it won't cause other issues (crosstalk, noise, etc..).
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: cags12 on November 21, 2018, 02:39:32 PM
Quote from: DLC86 on November 21, 2018, 10:05:41 AM
Hi, I'm resurrecting this thread cuz I'm going to place my ATG board in an external box soon, but I have a question for you:
Is it a good idea to send the signal of the mag hex pickup to the board thru a 5 meters long multicore cable (capacitance 120pF/m) or do I need a buffer/preamp in the guitar?
I don't mind a bit of treble roll-off if the effect of the cable is similar to that of a normal guitar pickup, I just want to be sure it won't cause other issues (crosstalk, noise, etc..).

Is this the Mag version of the kit? If so, I would expect a some of signal drop, crosstalk and interference. I may be wrong of course.

I have the same plan but using a GK buffered kit with my Piezo ATG kit. I have not done anything yet because I've been lazy in tackling the powering of the KIT via the GK-13 cable.
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: DLC86 on November 21, 2018, 02:54:27 PM
Quote from: cags12 on November 21, 2018, 02:39:32 PM
Is this the Mag version of the kit? If so, I would expect a some of signal drop, crosstalk and interference. I may be wrong of course.

I have the same plan but using a GK buffered kit with my Piezo ATG kit. I have not done anything yet because I've been lazy in tackling the powering of the KIT via the GK-13 cable.
Yes it's the mag version. I'm going to use it with a mag pickup in one guitar and with piezo in another one where I'll install a diy 6-channel piezo buffer/attenuator.
I might build the same buffer for the mag equipped guitar as well if that helps with those issues.
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: DLC86 on November 22, 2018, 01:54:39 AM
I checked the specs of the multicore cable I'm going to buy, it has both braided and foil shielding so it should have a good EMI rejection and its crosstalk is "better than -46dB", so at least 1dB lower than the pickup itself (assuming the performance of the Antares mag pickup is pretty similar to a gk3).

Given those specs I think there shouldn't be major problems, I guess I'll just have to try it.
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: cags12 on November 22, 2018, 03:03:48 AM
Quote from: DLC86 on November 22, 2018, 01:54:39 AM
I checked the specs of the multicore cable I'm going to buy, it has both braided and foil shielding so it should have a good EMI rejection and its crosstalk is "better than -46dB", so at least 1dB lower than the pickup itself (assuming the performance of the Antares mag pickup is pretty similar to a gk3).

Given those specs I think there shouldn't be major problems, I guess I'll just have to try it.

Antares/Shadow pickup is way hotter than the GK3 pickup (buffered) so yeah, worth a try.
Title: Re: Antares Internal Luthier Kit In External Housing
Post by: mapletop on December 01, 2019, 10:09:02 PM
hi i have a peavey at200 with the full package.but anymore it has bass sounds on 5 and 6 strings anyone know how to fix it