RC-300 - best way to route your signal with the rc 300 in a live set up?

Started by Looper 1, May 14, 2013, 08:02:48 AM

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Looper 1

Hey guys,
I'm new here, so please excuse me if this question has already been asked and answered..
Basically I recently got the Boss RC 300 looper and I'm curious to know how to achieve best results with it in a live sound situation.
I've been getting to know it at home and am keen to bring it into my gigging set up... It works great at home with my signal going from guitar to effects to looper to headphones...
Does anyone have experience with this machine in a live situation with these pieces of gear: Guitars>Effects>Lopper>Amps> front of house?
My question is what route my signal should take to get the best results.
I'm not keen on vocals coming through my amps, but even less keen on guitars going straight from looper to desk with no amps..
Is it possible or feasible to put guitars through amps before the lopper so as to separate the vocals from the guitars? Or will this likely damage the looper?

Any advice would be awesome!

groovey1

It sounds like you're looping both your guitar and vocals? My first reaction is to say you should consider using some kind of modeler to get your guitar sound and just send all the looper output to the PA ... IOW don't use a guitar amp.

As an alternative, you could use the sub/main outs on the rc300 to send the vocals to the PA and the guitar to your amp. That would require you dedicating specific tracks to voice and guitar.

Looper 1

Thanks Groovey1!

Yep, guit and vox.

I had thought the modeling option one would be the way forward. Just a bit budget tied right now so trying to figure out the best way to use what I have..
Most of the vocal side is straight singing which would normally just go to front of house, so I would even consider leaving the looper out of it there, but I'm beat boxing too which means I need to loop that and sing over it so I have to go through the looper for that... hmmm Problem there seems to be as follows: track 1 is Guitars, track 2 Bass, Track 3 beatbox.. Nice cos I can take things in and out easily enough, but separation is a bummer. would you say its risky putting my amps before the looper?

groovey1

If your amp has a line out or "record out" it shouldn't be a problem.

But if you always use track 3 for your beatboxing, I think the easiest thing would be to route track 3 to the sub output (and then DI into the board). And also route tracks 1 and 2 to the main output and into your amp ... assuming you're OK with sending the bass into your amp. See page 19 of the manual if you're not sure how to do this.

Looper 1


Threeleggedyoyo

Couple other options for you.

When the Loopstation is in stereo mode, stuff plugged into the R inputs will only come out of the R outputs, and same with the L side.

So if you don't mind getting your vocals into a 1/4 output and plugging it into the main input jacks that is another option. Another handy trick with that: The AUX jack is actually a stereo input and can be split with the right adapter. This way you have a little more volume control than having to share the INS knob with your guitar.

Unfortunately the dedicated Mic input always comes out of both outputs.

Another partial solution is the way I do it. My mic goes to a 1/4 output and into an Electroharmix switchblade A/B switch. From there one output goes straight into the PA and the other goes into the looper. I only engage it when I want to loop vocals or sax through the mic. The rest of the time it goes straight to PA (this also gives me the ability to loop guitar parts while singing a part that does not repeat). Granted that doesn't solve your problem 100% since your looped vocals would still come out of an amp, but at least your other vocals would be free of that. For me I don't care because like Groovey1 suggested, I use amp modelers for guitar sounds and route everything through a PA anyway.

Another step forward with that setup might be to use an A/B/Y or a modded A/B switch. You could have the vocals ALWAYS go through the PA, but only sometimes go through the looper. That way, on the first pass at least, you get the sound of the PA along with the amp.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Looper 1

Hey guys and girls,

Thank you once again for all the great advice!

I'm back  after a looong time (some major R and D) with another question.. But I'll come back to that at the end of this post.
I decided to continue this old thread so others can follow the evolution of my set up and hopefully derive some useful info from it.
My solution to the signal separation conundrum we were talking about earlier on, has been: I got out my nasty old Beringer Eurorack 8 channel mixer and mixed my separates from there BEFORE the RC300.
My set up looks something like this now.
2X vocal mics. (1 is for singing and goes into Euro rack then to FOH, 2 is for beet boxing and goes through my Eurorack to the RC300, then to FOH)
1X Electric Guitar (signal goes into Boss Super octave OC3, Boss Super overdrive SD 1, Ibanez Soundtank DL5, Vox AC30 amplug.. Yes it sounds workable.. Eurorack, RC300 then FOH.)
This is a very dodgy, top heavy and risky set up that takes about a week to soundcheck, but I've used it 3 or 4 times now with fantastic to ok results.
My attempt has been to separate and mix my signals as far as possible before they get to the RC300 so that they sound as good as possible coming out of the RC300 and so the FOH guy can't screw me too badly.
Anyway, its been far from ideal but Its also been a series of very useful experiments using the gear I had lying around. My next step is to streamline the concept and clean up the bird's nest of cables and teetering connections.
So after some serious research and saving, I decided to splurge on the TC Helicon voicelive 3. It seems like its going to sort out most of my problems with signal separation and mix quality. I'm super exited to fire it up and get some quality signals flying! Also hoping to expand my looping horizons by linking it to my RC 300.
I'll post here again as soon as I've had some time with it and let you all know how the two machines like each other and me.

Now for that question: I'm having a problem assigning functions from my RC300 to a brand new boss fs6 footswitch I got yesterday.
The default functions work fine, but having followed the manual to the letter I've been unable to assign any other functions to it.
I checked polarity and mode on the fs6. All of them are set left as shown in the manual. I have a stereo cable connecting it to the RC300 as shown in the manual, but all I get is the default function. (scroll up and down through the banks and scroll effects. Also I notice there is no display indication of what effect I'm on) There is no mention of an issue like this in the trouble shoot section of the manual and the Roland website is completely unhelpful.
Anyone else had this problem with this machine? Is it a firmware issue, faulty fs6 or am I missing something?

Any advice/input will be super cool!

Threeleggedyoyo

I don't think your FS-6 is broken because it is in fact registering commands. It sounds like you are missing something in altering the default assignments. Don't feel bad -- it can be confusing at first.

Try my video tutorial and see if it helps. It is specifically about making Assigns and goes into a fair amount of detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDfYEcpo_hs&feature=gp-n-y

Keep in mind that you can assign multiple functions to the same external control, so even if you add a new function correctly, it will still keep doing the old one unless you specifically replace or disable it.

Not being able to see the FX change is normal. You have to bring them up specifically to see them. The LEDs only show categories, so if you scroll through a bunch you'll see a change. If you pull up the FX specifically, you'll see them change (also shown in the video).

If you are still stuck after watching this let us know.

Cams

Super useful thread. Have you updated your rig since your last post @Looper 1? I found this thread because I'm looking for a way to have guitar looped through the RC-300 but not vocal on an individual memory slot basis. I don't loop vocal on every song. I guess two vocal mics would be the easiest way. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for the informative thread.

wolfnote

Quote from: Threeleggedyoyo on May 21, 2013, 10:09:46 PM
Couple other options for you.

When the Loopstation is in stereo mode, stuff plugged into the R inputs will only come out of the R outputs, and same with the L side.

So if you don't mind getting your vocals into a 1/4 output and plugging it into the main input jacks that is another option. Another handy trick with that: The AUX jack is actually a stereo input and can be split with the right adapter. This way you have a little more volume control than having to share the INS knob with your guitar.

Unfortunately the dedicated Mic input always comes out of both outputs.

Another partial solution is the way I do it. My mic goes to a 1/4 output and into an Electroharmix switchblade A/B switch. From there one output goes straight into the PA and the other goes into the looper. I only engage it when I want to loop vocals or sax through the mic. The rest of the time it goes straight to PA (this also gives me the ability to loop guitar parts while singing a part that does not repeat). Granted that doesn't solve your problem 100% since your looped vocals would still come out of an amp, but at least your other vocals would be free of that. For me I don't care because like Groovey1 suggested, I use amp modelers for guitar sounds and route everything through a PA anyway.

Another step forward with that setup might be to use an A/B/Y or a modded A/B switch. You could have the vocals ALWAYS go through the PA, but only sometimes go through the looper. That way, on the first pass at least, you get the sound of the PA along with the amp.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Hi there. What do you mean by 'Stereo Mode'?
I have separated my L + R inputs as you have recommended, but the L input, comes out of both L+R output, so does the R input. Do I have to do something in particular to put the RC300 into 'Stereo Mode'?

Just to clarify, I have set my input signals to only 'Main Out', and when I use the line inputs, with 2 separate mono signals (say 1 guitar and 1 vocal {through the jack, of course}) one in L and one into R, it still comes out as a summed mono single from both L and R Main Outs. How can I separate these signals,  so i can send out 2 different mono signals to FOH for separate mixing/processing.

Thanks a lot.
Paul

aliensporebomb

Stereo mode?

I use a stereo device (VG-99, GP-10, Mesa Studio Preamp outputs) into the left and right inputs on the RC-300 and take the left and right outputs on the RC-300 to my stereo monitoring system.  Does that make sense?

Or, prior to you putting mono devices into the RC-300 use a multi-channel mixer to create a quasi-stereo mix to place the left/right outputs into the left and right inputs on the RC-300 and then the stereo outs on the RC-300 into a stereo monitoring system.

Does that help?   Since you're using the mic input too I'm not sure if this will work ideally but check out per haar's wonderful "how to use the GR-55 and RC-300 as a powerful live looping setup" to get some ideas since he only uses the mic input for looped vocals and uses a separate mic for live vocals.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.