Elantric's Computer

Started by Elantric, May 25, 2012, 07:39:08 AM

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Elantric

Ive been looking to upgrade to a faster computer to run my apps.
Was looking hard at the Acer Iconia 6120 - since it got a lot of favorable recommendations for audio DAW, but do a search on "Acer iconia dual screen ghost dots" got me concerned.

http://www.amazon.com/Acer-ICONIA-6120-14-inch-Tablet/dp/B004P0WLEY

but I really need to run OSX for many modern music apps I use - and / or want to learn, and the new Intel Ivy Bridge CPUs are shipping in systems next month, so now is the time to hunt for deep discount deals on last years Sandy Bridge models. 

Nearly ordered a Lenovo W520 laptop- since this is one of the last Laptops with 1394 Firewire and Expresscard/34 slot standard, I7 Sandy Bridge CPU and can be loaded with 32GB ram.

EDIT: Aug, 2012
Re: Lenovo W520 - I needed a faster Win7 machine for work tasks
http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo-ibm/566338-lenovo-w520-owners-thread.html
I'm just now upgrading an ebay recertified Lenovo W520, ($1,100) which came with I7 2760QM Quad core, 1900 x 1080 15.6" display, 500GB 7200 drive, Pantone Color Calibrator, and 1 year warranty.
http://www.storagereview.com/lenovo_thinkpad_w520_review
Ive upgraded it with four 8GB SODIMM DDR3 ram (32GB), - pretty incredible for a notebook
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233265




and a 256GB mSATA system drive. Blazing performance.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008AIYSWA/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00





But back to my studio machine:

So I just got a new iMac 27" with I7 3.4GHz Sandy Bridge at a good price from the Apple Outlet store :
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FD063LL/A

I discovered there is a very active community of iMac modders and with my skills this iMac can be upgraded to 32GB RAM, and an external ESATA drive port can be added too, and there are now many Thuderbolt peripherals just now shipping - thanks to TI making thunderbolt chipsets to support the Intel  / Apple standard. There are Thunderbolt to expresscar34 adapters and I have my eye on the BlackMagic Intensity Shuttle for HDMI capture, or drive the iMac 27" display with an Xbox360.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

and with VMware Fusion 4  - I can run WinXP, Win7 32, Win7 64 - and all my  Cad  / PCB design apps - faster than they ran on my old Core 2 Duo Quad core rig.

Apple wil be refreshing the iMac later this summer  - updating to the new Ivy Bridge CPU and rumor is strong that USB 3.0 ports will arrive too -

But Im happy with my refurbished May 2011 rev iMac 27 - as this model revision originally shipped with Snow Leopard OSX 10.6, and in a pinch I could downgrade to run Snow Leopard ( because its the last OSX that supports 32 bit "cocoa" code and older mac apps) 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_X

Lately Apple is getting more like Microsoft, and dropping support for the old 32 bit world. The Macs that have been introduced after October 2011 can not run Snow Leopard, due to a firmware lock out.   


there is a "fix" for the lack of "Save As" on OSX 10.7 Lion


http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20120604101520950

--
QuoteThe autosave feature in OS X 10.7 has been a mixed bag. It's nice that it saves things for you, but it's not nice that automatically saves things that you don't want to change permanently, or that the "Save As..." option has disappeared. The good folks at stack exchange have discovered a remedy.

To disable autosave in TextEdit.app, run the following command in Terminal:

defaults write com.apple.TextEdit ApplePersistence -bool no

This disables autosave and versions, reenables the "Save As" option and hot-key (Command-Shift S), and reenables Command-D as a hot key for "Don't Save".

For TextEdit, you'll run into sandbox-related permissions errors with this with the old style Autosave, where it attempts to place a file name "filename (Autosaved).txt" in your working directory. I don't know a good fix for that (if someone does, would you mind making a comment?)

This works for other apps as well, just replace TextEdit with the name of the app, e.g.:

defaults write com.apple.iWork.Keynote ApplePersistence -bool no

defaults write com.apple.Preview ApplePersistence -bool no


It is such a relief to have that "Save As..." option back! Hopefully I'll be able to get something done in Lion now with a minimum of cursing.

[kirkmc adds: We know that Save As is coming back in Mountain Lion, but if you want to turn off autosave for a specific application, this is good to know.

I'm not sure about these sandboxing errors. After working with a TextEdit file for a bit, I got an error saying, "You don't have permission to write to the folder that the file "test" is in." To be honest, that kind of outweighs the usefulness of turning off autosave; so if someone can find a solution for that, I'd say this hint might be more useful.]


Other strategies to restore "Save As" in OSX 10.7 are here:

http://lifehacker.com/5877519/bring-back-save-as-in-mac-os-x-lion-sort-of


http://osxdaily.com/2011/11/30/how-to-save-as-mac-os-x-lion/
Anyway - back to my new iMac.

wow - I have never had a faster setup with ANY computer. Since Ive had an iPhone since 2009, all I had to do is enter my country, my WiFi WEP security key, my Apple ID, and pair the Magic Mouse and bluetooth keyboard, and I was up and running!!

Compare that to my worst new computer  - a 2006 Toshiba M4 Tablet PC that had so much bloatware and Norton tools that it Literally took 3 hours to click "yes, "no", "no", "no", to all the prompt after prompt for the "free games Trial " , free Sync to Desktop Trial, etc, etc, and then wait for the Microsoft updates, and nag screens. 2 years later just after a Microsoft WinXP update, the Toshiba M4 decided its CPU was too hot and became more useful as a hot air blower than a tool Id want to use for computing.

Thats when I got my Intel based 2008 Macbook Pro and discovered VMWare Fusion and (sadly) I ran WinXP 99% of the time for quite a while, and never actually used OSX much. My last new Apple was a 1986 Mac Plus with 4meg RAM, and 20meg SCSI drive purchased new for $3K

In 2010, one day the Macbook Pro's screen went black - I took it to an independent Apple store "MacSuperStore"  and they wanted $1600 to repair it.

I figured I would head to my local real Apple store, and within 30 minutes I met with the Genius Bar support guy, who plugged a black dongle in the Firewire port, and determined my Macbook Pro had an nVidea 8600 graphic GPU that had a known early catastrophic high failure rate, and despite the fact i was out of my warranty - Apple would replace the logic board for free and have it ready for me that afternoon - no charge.

Anyway, the product Ive been co-developing at work for the past 6 years ( a JPEG2000 decoder with FIPs compliance) was just picked up by Dolby. Its the crucial component for every theater in the world that exhibits the Christmas 2012 release of Peter Jacksons Hobbit in 3D
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57320959-1/peter-jackson-reveals-3d-secrets-behind-hobbit/
Its been a major effort - but with my new  iMac - with luck  maybe I will get back to making music again 

   

 
 

aliensporebomb

Congrats on your i7 iMac!  I really like mine.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

gumtown

I can't wait to see the Hobbit movie when it's released.

Congrats on the iMac, with the 27" screen, that would be a good size to work with.

My daughter managed to break the screen on my laptop, so i'm dragging around an old 15" CRT monitor until a new screen arrives.
I must get a new home computer, my work issued i5 Toshiba laptop has "all my eggs in one basket" and never enough HDD space.
I also use a ESATA docking cradle which takes raw 3.5" and 5" hard drives (drop in cradle) with other operating systems.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

After using OSX Lion for a few days, I'm seriously thinking of downgrading to OSX Snow Leopard.

I find huge incompatibilities with OSX Lion and Flash Player based web pages. Symptoms are "submarine-ing" Cursur that simply vanishes without warning anytime its hovering on any Adobe Flash based web page - and only repeatedly moving the magic mouse in 4" radius circular motions across my real  desktop for 30 seconds finally "wakes up' the cursor again and it suddenly becomes visible again for normal use.
When its not doing that, then the cursor enters into this bizarre mode where it appears / disappears/ appears / disappears in a constant rhythmic pulse "on / off" every second.

"But -  other than that - how was the play Mrs Lincoln?"

   

scratch17

Congrats Elantric.

I worked tech support for Apple in 95 and 96, just before Steve Jobs returned. At the time, everyone expected apple to go away and die.

I bought my first Mac in 95. It was a Power PC 7500 with 8 MB ram. It cost me $556 for an added 8 MB.

My Macbook Pro (Feb 11) is a fantastic machine. I got it while still taking classes the old fashioned way - in person. My classes are now all online, so I plan to upgrade to an Ivy Bridge 27" iMac when that iteration is released.

As for Snow Leopard versus Lion, I've run both and had zero issues. I've never had the problem you mention  with Flash based web pages.

The issue may be with flash support for the browser you are using. Try Mozilla's Firefox.

Good luck,

Steven.
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aliensporebomb

Another thought.  Go to http://labs.adobe.com/ and get the latest 64-bit version of Flash installed.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

#6
QuoteAnother thought.  Go to http://labs.adobe.com/ and get the latest 64-bit version of Flash installed.

That might help thanks Tim - er. Todd ! ( a.k.a "aliensporebomb" )

http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer11-3.html


EDIT: See below - turned out adding more memory was the path to fixing this issue.

aliensporebomb

#7
Quote
That might help thanks TimTodd  ( a.k.a "aliensporebomb" )



My first name is "Todd" actually but you were close!  Most don't even get the first initial right.  I've found that labs link sometimes has updates that fix things well before an official fix is available - you just have to accept that sometimes their fixes might break other things.  So far I've been lucky in the last year though.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Elantric

#8
Ive been doing research - but moving forward I may just leave it with Lion.

I do have a 2008 era MacPro  - but the cost of memory upgrades is rediculous.

instead - I found i can upgrade my May 2011 era iMac 27 to 32GB for $150 - $199

musicman65

Elantric,

You are enjoying the low cost of open market computing thanks to the Intel/MS collusion. Now if Apple would allow their OS to be purchased and installed on the hardware of my choice, that would be awesome. Of course their problems would increase exponentially! But wouldn't the possibilities be awesome?

bd


Elantric

QuoteYou are enjoying the low cost of open market computing thanks to the Intel/MS collusion. Now if Apple would allow their OS to be purchased and installed on the hardware of my choice, that would be awesome. Of course their problems would increase exponentially! But wouldn't the possibilities be awesome?

Agreed!

i still might grab a Lenovo W520 later this summer, as the new Ivy Bridge version (W530) will replace it, and then the price will plummet on remaining stock of W520's.

It's one of the last laptops that still have Firewire and ExpressCard/34 slot. Id be hosed without those ports.

Kevin M

I'm a lucky owner of a Lenovo W520 (soon to be my mostly exclusive music system).  Nice machine, as are most of the Thinkpad line.  I also had to have FireWire for my MOTU.

randyrocker

Quote from: aliensporebomb on May 25, 2012, 10:18:24 AM
Congrats on your i7 iMac!  I really like mine.

Yeah the I7 is great I have the same CPU water cooled and running it at 5GHz I myself am a Computer Engineer I am not anti Apple I just find that Windows 7 is much more tweakable
congrats... Im running 32 GB of Ram as well its a mean machine... I could always run a Hacked version of OSX but I find way more programs for Windows than I do for Mac
I remember  time when everyone thought that Linux would be the master of the desktop its still Windows and Mac :)   I also am getting older I just bought a very nice 32 inch to go along with my
27 inch monitor I really need more but thats enough for now. :) have fun

Elantric

#13
On my iMac 27"  - I just swapped out the factory 4GB Ram for 4 x 8GB sticks = 32GB total

All my prior OSX Lion complaints with the Adobe Flash problems with the disappearing mouse cursor are now fixed.

I know OSX Lion needs more Ram, but the move to 32GB really improved the performance of this machine, and because DDR3 memory is dirt cheap today it only cost me $198 for the 32GB Ram upgrade. 

guitarno

Quote from: Elantric on June 06, 2012, 10:36:59 AM
On my iMac 27"  - I just swapped out the factory 4GB Ram for 4 x 8GB sticks = 32GB total

All my prior OSX Lion with Adobe Flash problems with the disappearing mouse cursor are now fixed.

I know OSX Lion needs more Ram, but the move to 32GB really improved the performance of this machine, and because DDR3 memory is dirt cheap today it only cost me $198 for the 32GB Ram upgrade.

$198 to go from 4Gb to 32 Gb ?? That IS a good price. I didn't realize ram was that cheap now. Where did you get your ram from if you don't mind my asking?

Thanks
Suhr Classic Pro SSS, PRS Hollowbody II Piezo, Breedlove Oregon Concerto E, Fractal FM3, Mesa Boogie LoneStar Special

Elantric

#15
I ordered two of these kits at $96 each: ( approx $192 total)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006DI9PG8/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i03

Corsair 16GB Dual Channel DDR3 SODIMM Memory Kit (CMSO16GX3M2A1333C9)

Price:    $95.74 & this item ships for FREE with Super Saver Shipping.





The Caveat is that not every iMac can go up to 32GB. Luckily my May 2011 build does.

Many 2008 models use older DDR2 and are maxed out at 4GB.


I have attached a PDF doc that explains all the memory upgrade options in recent Apple iMacs.

Elantric

<kmaus10 wrote>
QuoteI'm a lucky owner of a Lenovo W520 (soon to be my mostly exclusive music system).  Nice machine, as are most of the Thinkpad line.  I also had to have FireWire for my MOTU.



Glad to hear you are doing well with the Lenovo W520. I keep my eye on those for the next three months as i'm sure they will be heavily discounted soon, and they make a very good mobile DAW platform that can also be expanded to 32GB ram too, and can be "hackintoshed"

scratch17

Check out the new Mac versions to be announced on Monday at WWDC 2012. There are strong rumors of a new Mac Pro with Sandy Bridge Xeon 6 and 8 core E5 chips. Plus a probable upgrade to Ivy bridge for iMacs. USB 3.0 support, and support for faster RAM is also expected.

Depending on features and price, I'll make a choice on which to buy.

The main advantage of the Mac Pro over the iMac is the ability to add more RAM and access to the drive bays without voiding the warranty. Apple's optional SSD in current Macs is weak on performance when compared to third party drives. And it's expensive.

Being  able to select and install a thrid party mid-line SSD for boot and audio drives is a real plus for audio workstations over an iMac. Also, according to Intel, the new E5 Xeon memory architecture should decrease bottlenecks. That may show up as a faster sample load time, compared to current Macs.

Of course, if you have > $3K to invest, a multiprocessor Sandy Bridge Mac Pro will easily outperform a single processor iMac with Ivy Bridge.

To be fair, the iMac is cheaper, offers great performance, and has the Apple Display built-in. If it gets a significant upgrade on Monday, I'll probably opt for it.

Not too far down the road I expect to see moderately priced thunderbolt drive bays from Drobo.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBQQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zdnet.com%2Fblog%2Fstorage%2Fdrobo-previews-its-upcoming-thunderbolt-storage-at-computex%2F1695&ei=VYXTT6maGqm62wWLi5WnDw&usg=AFQjCNGyKl1u-P7r8waRl5QGviU_r0RdNQ&sig2=QYqsvVEoOxaS-4e872NzqA

Since Thunderbolt is really the PCI bus, storage read/write speed should be close to that of internal drives. 

Other thunderbolt peripherals such as hubs with USB, eSata and even PCIe 2.0 slots are now shipping (or are close to shipping).

So some of the (single processor) Mac Pro's advantages may disappear soon.

Also, check out Macsales.com for memory upgrades. While apple doesn't support use of 16 GB sticks, OWC (Macsales) has sticks that work just fine in current Macs. My local Fryes also sells 16 GB sticks for Macs. they are more expensive per GB than 8 GB sticks, but they double the Mac's RAM capacity.

Contrary to reports from Intel that say thunderbolt is an main board only technology, Asus is apparently making a PCIe 4x card available for select series 7 boards (the Ivy Bridge boards) that will have a Thunderbolt expansion port. apparently, Asus has imbedded whatever is necessary in on-board components, so that a card could be added later. The top of the line series 7 board has thunderbolt built in.

Why should a Mac user care about this? As some have mentioned on this thread, the answer is Hackintosh. These series 7 boards will be close enough (as are most Sandy Bridge main boards), that with a Core i5 or i7 Ivy Bridge processor and suitable video card, a Hackintosh with great performance, stability and expandability can be built legally, easily, and cheaply. I've already seen performance data posted on i7 Ivy Bridge running Lion.
Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
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aliensporebomb

#18
The problem with hackintosh is no matter how attractive on price and how well put together it is not a professional solution for a for-hire recording studio because these systems are illegal. 

Lots of people use them but the fact remains that one software update could totally obliterate your recording setup and you'd have to wait until the next hackintosh guru to figure out a way around it to get your system functional again.  Apple won't help you with a hackintosh.

I sure wish I had a thunderbolt iMac.  Firewire 800 is okay but gigabit ethernet is better still and thunderbolt still better than that.  I may have to sell this one to get the "next gen".  Plus, I'm locked to 16 gigs of ram on this one:
I've not heard any stories about 8 gig 1333 ram working in the 1st gen i7 iMacs.  The 4 gig chips work fine.

I was strongarmed into getting the first gen i7 imac when a power transformer on the pole blew up destroying my PowerMac G5 2.5 dual and didn't have quite enough funds to get a suitable Mac Pro at the time. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

scratch17

Quotethese systems are illegal

I agree that in a commercial studio that it is inappropriate to have a Hackintosh. However, in a commercial studio, presumably you should have enough income (or at least projected income) to cover the cost of a real Mac.

I do not recommend that anyone break the law. However, the legality of a Hackintosh is at least debatable. The Apple OS is built on an open source kernel. The Free Software Foundation recognizes this. I believe that Apple is a signatory, although I may be incorrect.

Apple will freely let you buy a copy of the OS on a thumb drive at their store, without asking for proof you own a Mac. But buried in the license agreement that you must agree to when you install is language that prohibits you from installing the OS on non-Apple hardware.

Yet Apple appears to never enforce this clause. In fact, when Apple and Intel first demoed Thunderbolt, they did so on a Hackintosh with the Apple reps working the booth and the press conference.

I suspect that Apple might object (and probably threaten legal action) to Hackintoshes, were they become ubiquitous at a Fortune 500 company. However, it may be that Apple's lawyers have offered Apple the opinion that it is not worth going after any individuals. Further, they have probably pointed out that Apple could lose such a lawsuit. That might put Apple in jeopardy of losing the tight control they currently do have over their OS.

For example, if a court decided that since the OS since is open source, it is therefore free of restrictions as to its use. The court might then hold that the install agreement clause requiring apple hardware might not be valid.

Such a ruling might open a can of worms, allowing other companies to sell Apple clones again. Yes, I know that Apple successfully stopped small clone companies in the past.

But armed with a new court ruling, what if HP or Google decided to try to take some of Apple's market. They'd have the money to fight the legal battles. And the potential profit would be worth going for.

As far as stability after software updates are concerned, "you pays your money and you takes your chances" with a legit Mac or a Hackintosh. I do agree that there is probably less chance of problems with a legit Mac. But consider what Elantric went through when he first moved to Lion.

Most reports indicate that Sandy Bridge/Z68 based Hackintoshes are stable and require no additional hacks, if one of a long list of video cards is chosen for the build. The OS X installer just sees a Mac. As with any computer, once you get a  stable install, just don't do software updates that are not necessary.

What makes an update necessary, regardless of platform? The number one reason should be a security issue. Adding hardware or or adding a major software function (which might destabilize the OS) should be next in line.

But updating widgets or iTunes on a Mac used for commercial purposes is just plain silly. Such a Mac should be stripped down to its basic functions. No non recording software or hardware should be on the Mac. Software for other purposes should be on another machine. Also, this should be the paradigm followed for a hobbyists Mac used mostly for serious studio work.
Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

Kevin M

If the computer and OS license are purchased legally, how is it illegal to combine the two?  I fail to see this.

gumtown

Hackintosh's are notorious for crashing, and osx software updates kill them.
Some people spend serious coin on building them so i don't think it's really about having a cheap mac,
but the satisfaction of being able to force a square peg into a round hole.

I most certainly would not run one for serious or professional work, just go buy the real deal.
Then again, you can run windows on your intel mac gear if required.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

aliensporebomb

#22
Quote from: kmaus10 on June 09, 2012, 07:52:17 PM
If the computer and OS license are purchased legally, how is it illegal to combine the two?  I fail to see this.

The Apple software license does not allow Mac OS X to be used on a computer that is not "Apple-branded".

There's a really, really long wiki about the history of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSx86

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Kevin M

Quote from: aliensporebomb on June 10, 2012, 09:57:05 AM
The Apple software license does not allow Mac OS X to be used on a computer that is not "Apple-branded".

There's a really, really long wiki about the history of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSx86

I understand that, but doing so violates an agreement rather than an actual law.

tekrytor

Quote from: kmaus10 on June 10, 2012, 11:38:48 AM
I understand that, but doing so violates an agreement rather than an actual law.
Agreed. Apple does not provide support for their software running on non-apple hardware. That is the issue. I would question whether apple provides support for their software period. It IS after all, "plug-n-play". I have yet to have Apple or Microsoft respond to an email inquiry for technical support. Ubuntu Forums are far better inthat regard, a lot more like this forum. I for one would not let Apple's idle threats intimidate me from running a Hackintosh. I would be concerned that Apple may retaliate and put anti-Hackintosh code into their updates though. There is a financial and stability risk involved.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices