Add the SY-300

Started by Bill Ruppert, September 02, 2019, 04:50:03 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JiveTurkey

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on September 07, 2019, 08:36:06 AM
Elliot glad you had fun!

I also been setting up two OD/Dist modules back to back.
The second is set up as a very clean amp and the first modules is set up as a fuzz or distortion.
Lots of control in gain and tone staging.
Set the clean amp up on "clean boost" or "natural OD" with the drive at zero. Also turn the mp simulator switch on.
The "Clean Boost" is a JC120 and the Natural OD is a Clean Twin. Comparing them to other Roland/Boss units they sound the same.
Then set the OD/Dist module before it to and fuzz or OD/distortion with out the am switch on.
Its like an amp with pedals before it.
+1 to this. Especially Natural OD. Natural OD and Blues Driver are my faves of all the  Boss dirt selections in their digital gear.

Bill Ruppert

Quote from: JiveTurkey on September 07, 2019, 10:12:47 AM
+1 to this. Especially Natural OD. Natural OD and Blues Driver are my faves of all the  Boss dirt selections in their digital gear.
YES Natural OD is the best! In the SY-300 with the gain at zero its identical to the Clean Fender amp model in the other boxes.
Even in the VG-99 the natural OD was my go to into a Fender Twin model.
Now since the GT-001 and GP-10 you can turn up the gain on the clean amps and they distort great.
That was never the case in the VG-99.
What needs to happen now is for them to scale the gain control with the level control so you can just turn up the gain knob and have the level stay the same.
That is what Kemper does and its great and fast.
This week I want to assign the Gain and Level in opposites to the EXP jack. That should do the same thing with one knob.

gumbo

"This week I want to assign the Gain and Level in opposites to the EXP jack. That should do the same thing with one knob."

...love it!  ;D ;D

...definitely want to know how you get on with that!   ...I have an idea that could benefit from that.

Cheers,
Peter

Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

gumtown

Used to that trick with the 2 assigns on gain and level back in the GT-8 days.
Go from clean to full on feedback from across the room while retaining a constant level.
If I recall assign the EXP to gain target min 0, target max 120. And level target min 80 and target max 35.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

gumtown

One thing I miss from the GT assigns is "Input level" as a controller, where input intensity gave a range.
You could assign real wacky stuff, like inverse dynamics, where the distortion level decreased as you played harder.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Bill Ruppert

Quote from: gumtown on September 08, 2019, 12:31:43 AM
One thing I miss from the GT assigns is "Input level" as a controller, where input intensity gave a range.
You could assign real wacky stuff, like inverse dynamics, where the distortion level decreased as you played harder.
I wish it had that!

Bill Ruppert

Quote from: gumtown on September 08, 2019, 12:25:32 AM
Used to that trick with the 2 assigns on gain and level back in the GT-8 days.
Go from clean to full on feedback from across the room while retaining a constant level.
If I recall assign the EXP to gain target min 0, target max 120. And level target min 80 and target max 35.
I tried the inverse exp pot thing and it works great. A slight different scaling would be better but this works fine!
Gumtown that range you used works great.
There are only 3 assigns on the exp. I do wish it were 6 like the the other Ctl options, but I could go midi for more.

loopman

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on September 04, 2019, 08:18:54 AM
Good luck the amp sounds are great!
On the Synth side I am getting some great stuff like Strings, horns, keyboards ect.
Something Boss should have done at the release.
Here is an example of a string sound:

Hi Master Bill, this patch is awesome, astounding. Could you help here with the settings used?

Thank you so much

chrish

#33
This may be still in effect and also applies to sy300, etc?

There is good advice in the tread below on how to create synth sounds. I often fall asleep at night reading gear manuals and tutorials on synthesis. :)

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2239.msg12817#msg12817

"Bill, do we have the chance to listen to something?


I hate to harp on about VGuitarforums members continually making these requests to Bill Ruppert to supply samples of his VG-99 work.

Please refrain from making these requests. For several reasons such requests fall under the Digital Rights Copyright act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act
Remember these important facts:

* Bill Ruppert is a card holding AFL/CIO Union Session Player, hired to supply his performances to Copyrighted work.

* Copyrighted work belongs to the Copyright owner   

So when Bill offers that "I just did a thing for Toyota today using the (VG-99) mag input on many tracks", please realize this translates to Bill Ruppert used his VG-99 on a recent union recording session for major Radio/TV spots for Toyota Motor Corp.

http://www.toyota-global.com/

Even though Bill performed on these tracks for Toyota, he does NOT hold any authority to post the resulting audio tracks here.
In fact, if the timing is wrong, this would probably violate his union contract and get him into big trouble with both Toyota and the Chicago advertising agency who hired him. Bill may have performed on a dozen versions of the same commercial, but the production company and Toyota management ultimately retain the right to decide which version gets the final "OK"for final release. The other non used versions still remain property of Toyota.   

We remain honored to have a large population of working professionals participating here at VGuitarforums, please respect their efforts and privacy on sharing their work.
In this era of DRM, we MUST respect the rights of copyright owners , else we might find ourselves in big trouble."

Bill Ruppert

Quote from: chrish on September 11, 2019, 10:54:52 AM
This may be still in effect and also applies to sy300, etc?

There is good advice in the tread below on how to create synth sounds. I often fall asleep at night reading gear manuals and tutorials on synthesis. :)

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2239.msg12817#msg12817

"Bill, do we have the chance to listen to something?


I hate to harp on about VGuitarforums members continually making these requests to Bill Ruppert to supply samples of his VG-99 work.

Please refrain from making these requests. For several reasons such requests fall under the Digital Rights Copyright act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act
Remember these important facts:

* Bill Ruppert is a card holding AFL/CIO Union Session Player, hired to supply his performances to Copyrighted work.

* Copyrighted work belongs to the Copyright owner   

So when Bill offers that "I just did a thing for Toyota today using the (VG-99) mag input on many tracks", please realize this translates to Bill Ruppert used his VG-99 on a recent union recording session for major Radio/TV spots for Toyota Motor Corp.

http://www.toyota-global.com/

Even though Bill performed on these tracks for Toyota, he does NOT hold any authority to post the resulting audio tracks here.
In fact, if the timing is wrong, this would probably violate his union contract and get him into big trouble with both Toyota and the Chicago advertising agency who hired him. Bill may have performed on a dozen versions of the same commercial, but the production company and Toyota management ultimately retain the right to decide which version gets the final "OK"for final release. The other non used versions still remain property of Toyota.   

We remain honored to have a large population of working professionals participating here at VGuitarforums, please respect their efforts and privacy on sharing their work.
In this era of DRM, we MUST respect the rights of copyright owners , else we might find ourselves in big trouble."
Thank you Chrish!
I do hope to do a educational thing at some point for this box, as there are a lot of little tricks I am finding in playing and sound design.
Its not exactly plug and play.BUT that what make this so cool!!
I just got started so give a while to have stuff in the box as well as a way to do it. Its all new to me.
Thanks again!

Brak(E)man

It's a brilliant box.
Could have been the best and most versatile " analog " guitar synth so far

I've recorded a solo album with SY-300 exclusively and used it on quite a few more recordings as well as on gigs.
It's not incorporated in my everyday rig , live or recording for one reason.
(It's not difficult to program, it has a lot of possibilities both on the " surface " and on a deeper level.)
But for me and my way of playing ,I need something that can make a sound that's clear ,
from any interval or chord at any time. I don't want to think about whether to play a single line ,a chord or an interval that turn into mush.
In a way this system is more restrictive than my gr-700 (latency, misstrigs and all )
That's the only reason I'm not super happy about the SY.
The other shortcomings are manageable but imho
the polyphony is what sinks this ship for me.

I will keep it and use it and I believe it's going to be one of the guitars synths , like gr-300
that will be used and sought after.

But Boss missed the crucial mark on this one IMHO

( last rant about polyphony, what's the big deal? Most guitarist use only a power chords anyway)
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

gumbo

#36
....don't you mean a 13 pen meddy cunnictar?
::)
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

Brak(E)man

Quote from:  philjynx on September 17, 2019, 02:56:24 AM
What are the chances of them (Roland/Boss) putting six of these in one box someday, with a 13 pun muddy connector?

Unless I'm not getting this correct, isn't the box already capable of delivering 6*3osc or more ?
It seems to me that a hex input could be incorporated without 6 whole boxes into one.
All the fx are used by all the osc ang guitar inputs at once.
So it should be a matter of getting the box to recognize pitch from a hex input instead of from a mono input
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Brak(E)man

Quote from:  philjynx on September 17, 2019, 05:24:20 AM
Sounds promising, the only reason I was wondering about hex was the references that have been made to the SY struggling (well, failing) with certain intervals. I have to say that Bill's samples sound amazing - it almost sounds as if you can hear the keys rattling on the accordian sample - very reaslistic, lovely in fact.


Quote from: Brak(E)man on September 03, 2019, 02:56:49 AM
Check out the difference.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=20024.msg144237#msg144237
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Bill Ruppert

Quote from:  philjynx on September 17, 2019, 05:24:20 AM
Sounds promising, the only reason I was wondering about hex was the references that have been made to the SY struggling (well, failing) with certain intervals. I have to say that Bill's samples sound amazing - it almost sounds as if you can hear the keys rattling on the accordian sample - very reaslistic, lovely in fact.
Thanks philjynx
These effect boxes are instruments in themselves.
They need to be learned how to be played.
You just cant walk into them and demand them to do what you do with out having to meet them half way.
That is also non creative because you miss places that you would never had thought to go with your eyes closed.
If it doesn't do something you want, use something else or use a box that does.
Play to the boxes strengths.

chrish

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on September 17, 2019, 06:44:43 AM
Thanks philjynx
These effect boxes are instruments in themselves.
They need to be learned how to be played.
You just cant walk into them and demand them to do what you do with out having to meet them half way.
That is also non creative because you miss places that you would never had thought to go with your eyes closed.
If it doesn't do something you want, use something else or use a box that does.
Play to the boxes strengths.
Except, the Roland analog GR300 guitar synth was plug and play and did not require any adjustment to average Joe guitar playing technique (with correct guitar setup).

And its also about sound quality. Of course everyone has different perceptions of sound, but the SY300 quickly fatigues my ears where as the GR300 does not.

Even the VG99 has a clarity of sound that the SY300 lacks.

I hear that lack of clarity in all the demo samples that I've heard except when personally playing mono and duophonic bass patches.

Quote from: Brak(E)man on September 17, 2019, 06:17:59 AM

Quote "check out the difference"

That demo says it all and shows how the SY300 could have been a monster guitar  synth with both a 1\4" audio input (for audio experimentation) and hex pup input.


Bill Ruppert

#41
Quote from: chrish on September 17, 2019, 12:01:41 PM
Except, the Roland analog GR300 guitar synth was plug and play and did not require any adjustment to average Joe guitar playing technique (with correct guitar setup).

And its also about sound quality. Of course everyone has different perceptions of sound, but the SY300 quickly fatigues my ears where as the GR300 does not.

Even the VG99 has a clarity of sound that the SY300 lacks.

I hear that lack of clarity in all the demo samples that I've heard except when personally playing mono and duophonic bass patches.
Quote "check out the difference"

That demo says it all and shows how the SY300 could have been a monster guitar  synth with both a 1\4" audio input (for audio experimentation) and hex pup input.
Then use the other boxes...
I have a GR-300 it was not perfect.
I think there needs to be a new thread for "I dont like the SY-300" because that was not the title of this thread or the point of this thread..

chrish

#42
Quote from: Bill Ruppert on September 17, 2019, 12:31:18 PM
Then use the other boxes...
I have a GR-300 it was not perfect.
I think there needs to be a new thread for "I dont like the SY-300" because that was not the title of this thread or the point of this thread..
I didn't say that.

I like the SY300 for what it does when you meet it within its many limitations, such as treating it as a mono or duophonic bass patch guitar synthesizer or inputting non guitar audio for sound experimentation.

The thread title is "add the sy300", which is no one is really discussing.

And with all due respect, I am offering an opinion based upon many years with this box and I'm not in the business of marketing 1/4" input digital fxs that can't handle accurate polyphonic pitch extraction so I hope my opinion is reasonably unbiased.

Many of us as average Joe guitar players expect more and many of us are sucked in by ad hype and masterful demo producers only to discover that the box requires us to alter our normal techniques so the box can meet us halfway.

There is a reason it sits unused in many musicians closets and flooding the used gear Market.

And yes I agree, put the box on the Vguitarforum banner.









Bill Ruppert

Good point Chrish!
I hope Elantric puts up a new banner. That would be great.
In the mean time I will migrate my random stuff to another thread.

chrish

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on September 17, 2019, 01:43:13 PM
Good point Chrish!
I hope Elantric puts up a new banner. That would be great.
In the mean time I will migrate my random stuff to another thread.
no worries Bill. This place seems fairly loose when it comes to the thread drift, especially if it's your own thread. ;D

I do think you are getting good results with your patches within the limits of the machine.

And its the  very good guitarists like you, brak(E)men, Smash and others here that inspire many of us to keep our chops intact even when our busy lives don't allow us much time to practice.

Even after running a chain saw or nail gun all day, me hands say no but I'm still excited to pick up the guitar and see if muse is visiting that day. :)

And I have read most of your Educational material here (much of it imported from Steve's backup site FGN). I  definitely gained a better understanding of HRM through that material.

I am curious as to what you believe are the GR300 imperfections.


Quote from: Bill Ruppert on September 17, 2019, 12:31:18 PM
Then use the other boxes...
I have a GR-300 it was not perfect.