13 Pin- Orphaned or Not?

Started by Rhcole, January 25, 2018, 03:46:15 PM

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Peter the GR-eat...

Quote from: admsustainiac on February 17, 2018, 04:12:58 PM
Several members here are from Sweden
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=154.0


for a qualified installer - consult the RMC Luthier list  - they also know how to install a GK-KIT-GT-3
http://www.rmcpickup.com/authorized_installers.htm

Contact these Luthiers
https://www.vintageandrare.com/builders/8/Sweden

Andertons UK has lowest GK-KIT-GT-3 price
https://www.andertons.co.uk/roland-gk3-internal-pickup-kit

Thanks!

For me the letdown was that Roland couldn't recommend a single one.
On the other hand and in their
defense. The luthier that retired was Paul Guy. A legend.
Not someone easily replaced.
A loss for all guitarist.

Peter the GR-eat...

Cool!


Would be nice to hear som recordings  sometime.


I don't own a VG-99. Been close  to buying one several times but i guss the hesitation has been.
If i really would have the time to fully learn how to use it,
I would guess it is a long way before the workflow gets fast enough.

I agree about the GK-1. Its gives a very limited use of the 24-pin synts. So annoying not to be able to switch the mode!

I find the Solange 6 MIDI guitar from Industrial Radio is interesting.
Would be amazing to combine that with Rolands hex pickup.

More and easy accessible controls  on the guitar would make it more fun to use live.

The GR-300 and old Roland guitars is still superior in many ways.
Just plug into a transistor amp and play.
Well maby a delay as well :)

But got to keep my focus. Now its about the future! :)

spyrl

Quote from: alexmcginness on January 29, 2018, 09:33:22 AM
You KNOW what we want. A VG-100 external loop connector etc.. well. theres a ton of requests here in the forum for that.

Personally Id like a GK pickup with two rotary controllers. That way one could be for volume and the other for tone or whatever. Yeah I know theres workarounds but I dont want workarounds. There is a need for a second pot on the gk wart. Just my 2c.

After owning the vg8, ex, 88, 99, gr30, 33, 55, Gp10, here's my thought(s)...

GP10 came so close in a lot of ways,but.....for the next iteration, I'd suggest it would be really nice to have;
-GP type form factor ish
-Dual amp signal chain as in modern current solutions by other players like BiasFX/Bias 2 or the Line6-PodHD and their newer products. That dual amp sound is a huge dimension.
-Multiple mp3/ipad 1/8" inputs
-2x5pin din midi jack (in & out) for floor and wireless via ipad control etc (ugh!!! i shouldn't have to even say that!!!)
-universal drivers (pc / linux / mac / ios / android) or better yet class compliant driverless audio
-a t least 1 stereo send / recieve for an external effects loop in hardware
-cosm pitch shift on guitar out option to feed vocal harmony pedals properly
-At least 1 minute looper memory
-Bluetooth stream to device (think backing tracks)
-at least 2 hard wired external expression controllers

-and a "premier" version with all this but sampled sounds like the gr55



Fheder

Any updates of this topic? A VG-1000 sounded very promising  ;D

Fheder

Quote from: germanicus on February 01, 2018, 07:56:04 PM
Heres my take on a patchwork vg-1000.

GP10 USB into laptop GKIN1-6

Laptop runs VST host and each GK IN (each string) runs its own instantiation of Helix Native.
Pretty powerful. Have it working on a laptop inside Sonar. Can run IRs on each string. This is kind of bananas as you can create IR of each independent string, instead of just a whole guitar.



You can even still have the GP10 run alternate tunings (use RE-Guitar/Amp II so that the modeling alt tune engine is after the helix processing per string). You can also use the helix plugins to do alt tuning/pitch shifting/harmonizing, especially as each plugin is only tracking one string.

That's exactly what I was thinking to do! Do you use any special program to load the VST in 6 separate channels?  or do you do it directly in your DAW?

vanceg

Quote from: Fheder on May 03, 2019, 12:14:56 AM
That's exactly what I was thinking to do! Do you use any special program to load the VST in 6 separate channels?  or do you do it directly in your DAW?

My big stumbling block when trying to set up 6 copies of plugins to process each string invidually is:  How do I control all 6 plugins at once?  Univeral control of plugin parameters across tracks is not typical for DAWs.  You can link effect parameters across tracks in Protools, but not in Ableton Live.... Swapping presets on all 6 tracks at once is also sometimes problematic.  There must be some good solutions brewing.

admin

Quote from: vanceg on May 06, 2019, 02:55:17 PM
My big stumbling block when trying to set up 6 copies of plugins to process each string invidually is:  How do I control all 6 plugins at once?  Univeral control of plugin parameters across tracks is not typical for DAWs.  You can link effect parameters across tracks in Protools, but not in Ableton Live.... Swapping presets on all 6 tracks at once is also sometimes problematic.  There must be some good solutions brewing.

FWIW  - back in 2009 Craig Anderton was using Ableton Live to loading 6 instances of NI Guitar Rig  - one per string processing for Gibson Dark Fire

Same old Ableton templates for Gibson Dark Fire also work with any multichannel Audio interface ( like the Boss GP-10) as Audio Interface

Details:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100724202852/http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Blogs/Dark-Fire--The-Inside-Story.aspx

alexmcginness

Quote from: Peter the GR-eat... on February 17, 2018, 05:24:40 PM
Cool!


I don't own a VG-99. Been close  to buying one several times but i guess the hesitation has been.
If i really would have the time to fully learn how to use it,


LOL. If you read posts from the VG-99 users on this form one of the most consistent things posted is that theyre always discovering new things the 99 can do. So....if you get one youll never fully learn it as its that deep that theres always something new you can dig out of it. My advice is to get one and start exploring.
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

whippinpost91850


vanceg

Yep. Very true. Me too (well, way earlier than that... but using individual plugins instead Guitar Rig).  The problem then and now is that there is no way to change presets on all of the plugins at the same time (unless it's automated using the timeline based automation).  The presets in this collection are useful, but the lack of a built in way to recall effect presets via MIDI Program Change is a pretty big drawback to this approach, IMHO.

Nowadays you can build a custom Max4Live patch to control multiple parameters together and there is a really rudamentary ability to change presets, but it's REALLY clunky.

Of course you can assign a single MIDI control to control multiple parameters.

But all of these options are orders of magnatude more of a PITA than most people are going to want to deal with.  For example, I don't want to have to go in and manually assign MIDI control numbers for every parameter of each plugin on 6 tracks EACH time I want to save a preset.

For static sounds, or if you want to automate just using the timeline...it's pretty viable.


Quote from: admin on May 06, 2019, 03:01:56 PM
FWIW  - back in 2009 Craig Anderton was using Ableton Live to loading 6 instances of NI Guitar Rig  - one per string processing for Gibson Dark Fire

Same old Ableton templates for Gibson Dark Fire also work with any multichannel Audio interface ( like the Boss GP-10) as Audio Interface

Details:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100724202852/http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Blogs/Dark-Fire--The-Inside-Story.aspx

Fheder

Quote from: vanceg on May 06, 2019, 02:55:17 PM
My big stumbling block when trying to set up 6 copies of plugins to process each string invidually is:  How do I control all 6 plugins at once?  Univeral control of plugin parameters across tracks is not typical for DAWs.  You can link effect parameters across tracks in Protools, but not in Ableton Live.... Swapping presets on all 6 tracks at once is also sometimes problematic.  There must be some good solutions brewing.

If your band uses live backing tracks with Pro Tools in a Laptop, you can create automations for each separate track, the tedious thing would be to create the project
it is potentially possible to use MainStage to use live as well, only I do not know if it is possible to manage 6 channels at the same time I could investigate if it is possible

bosetuno

I think eareckon bloxpander might be what you need. It is a DAW designed for live use and midi control. You can create snapshots of the full mixer and recall diferent snapshots via midi. It may be a small gap while changing, however if it does not have to replace/change/load diferent VST plugins it is quite fast.

https://www.eareckon.com/en/products/bloxpander-vst-host-for-live-performance.html

plexified

If one were to control plug ins on stage with a foot controller via midi managing one guitar track of traditional guitar , how would that be done? I get the multi track Pro Tool or Ableton automation. I see automated shows and the only way I would agree to it is if I could walk up to  my own board in front of my mic and take over or improvise. Any suggestions on this. I've seen Imogen Heap for instance control her work with Ableton Push, do guitar/Bass players have a solution to start with? Before we even get into 6 track guitar. You know for a MIDIot like me  ;)

admin

#113
Quote from: plexified on May 08, 2019, 02:31:03 PM
If one were to control plug ins on stage with a foot controller via midi managing one guitar track of traditional guitar , how would that be done? I get the multi track Pro Tool or Ableton automation. I see automated shows and the only way I would agree to it is if I could walk up to  my own board in front of my mic and take over or improvise. Any suggestions on this. I've seen Imogen Heap for instance control her work with Ableton Push, do guitar/Bass players have a solution to start with? Before we even get into 6 track guitar. You know for a MIDIot like me  ;)


Apple Mainstage
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=184.0

Cantabile
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8611.msg60544#msg60544

Audiostrom Live Professor
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11512.msg83663#msg83663


Sensomusic Hollyhock
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6296.0

Adam Fulara's MIDI Guitar Tools
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5511.0

Tour Supply - PlayBack Control ShowControl Systems
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19617.msg140723#msg140723


Richmond - SoundMan Virtual Sound System - Audio Playback and Show Control Software
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15181.msg108378#msg108378
http://www.richmondsounddesign.com/virtual-sound-system.html

Backing Track Options
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21552.msg155399#msg155399

FAMC Liquid Tracks LT-100
http://www.famcmusic.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=56
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10336.msg74517#msg74517


Quoteand admitted I was a MIDIot

Learn MIDI
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2977.0

plexified

Thank You so much, I got ridiculed asking this on the Gear Page, a question in the Recording/Live section. I stayed the course and was non confrontational and inquisitive. Good God, was it a dead end zone when I asked to confirm the suggestions after the ridicule.

I found this thread by accident, and admitted I was a MIDIot and was clearly treated like a valued member with respect and an unsurpassed response bar none. Thank You, for this. I subscribed long before I bought a lot of gear and embarked upon an entirely different journey because of this wonderful forum packed with awesome people. And this continues to this day. Including this exact response, its everyone here, you all taught me how to use V Guitar, Roland Gear, and beyond Properly. I try to share back every chance I get as a result and that includes supporting the forum and support functions like gumtown. I was a knucklehead for not asking here first.

vanceg

WHen last I checked, Mainstage doesn't automatically allow you to link parameters of multiple copies of the same plugin. However, you absolutely CAN simply assign the same MIDI contorller to the same parameter on multiple plugins (this is true in Mainstage, Ableton...most any software).  This is a decent work around - but does take some tedius setup.

Protools does allow you to connect multiple copies of plugins to be linked.  But, MIDI control of ANY parameters in Protools is a pain. 

Building a little plugin environment in Max/MSP may be a good way to go as the new Multichannel capabilities of Max/MSP do allow you to connect parameters together. However, that, too, is a big set up task.



Quote from: Fheder on May 07, 2019, 10:30:37 AM
If your band uses live backing tracks with Pro Tools in a Laptop, you can create automations for each separate track, the tedious thing would be to create the project
it is potentially possible to use MainStage to use live as well, only I do not know if it is possible to manage 6 channels at the same time I could investigate if it is possible

vanceg

we may have some luck talking to the folks at Gig Performer. It strikes me that they may be of the size to be able to listen to a request like "please provide features to support hexaphonic (and octaphonic) string processing by linkinging mulitple copies of plugins across channels."  Truth is I really don't know, but it seemed more likely thatn talking to Apple about Mainstage.

https://gigperformer.com/


Martin Turner

13 pin just needs a WiFi frequency radio interface to be back in business.

The problems with 13 pin: proprietary design, expensive cables, fragile connections.
The benefits of 13 pin: hardware not software solution resists obsolescence, intrinsically constructed based on the nature of stringed instruments, technologically simple, in the sense that it is analogue not digital

If someone created a 6 tx/rx 5 gHz interface, then the physical problems of the system disappear. If it was someone other than Roland, and they constructed it to be able to output each string separately as a jack, or any combination of strings, then it opens doors for people who simply want to amplify or record strings separately.

I think, ultimately, we are going to see A to D on board guitars, or as a little dongle, because it's much easier to handle a digital signal than an analogue one. Likewise, I don't think we should be surprised if the GK connector gets replaced with a Cat-7 ethernet connector. Desks have been connecting to stage boxes via Cat-5 for years.

For everyone with an investment in 13 Pin, I think there will be an upgrade path, unlike those invested in 21 pin.

Given the power of DAWs these days, it cannot be long before people want to process a guitar as a group of six channels.
Godin LGX - VG-99

admin

Wireless Wi-Fi audio  - works at sound check in empty room , but when the venue fills with 3000 iPhones all searching for a available Wi-Fi connection it becomes problematic and unstable

Smash

Quote from: plexified on May 08, 2019, 11:45:25 PM

I found this thread by accident, and admitted I was a MIDIot


Midiot - Love it. You win today's internet!

Shingles

Quote from: admin on May 13, 2019, 07:40:44 AM
Wireless Wi-Fi audio  - works at sound check in empty room , but when the venue fills with 3000 iPhones all searching for a available Wi-Fi connection it becomes problematic and unstable

On the other hand, developing a wireless replacement for the 13-pin interface is the easy part.
Licensing it - different rules and frequency constraints 8n different territories- is the difficult and expensive part.
Nik
--------------------------------
Tonelab, VG99, Axon AX100, EDP, Repeater
Godin, PRS, Crafter and Roland guitars
Center Point Stereo Spacestation V3

Martin Turner

Quote from: admin on May 13, 2019, 07:40:44 AM
Wireless Wi-Fi audio  - works at sound check in empty room , but when the venue fills with 3000 iPhones all searching for a available Wi-Fi connection it becomes problematic and unstable

I've never experienced this interference, even in high wifi use areas. However, we keep our transmitters fairly close to our receivers (ie, on stage). I would expect to do the same with a guitar to VG connection.

I've heard plenty of interference on UHF over the years. And had problems with GK cables.

Obviously, mileage varies from situation to situation,.
Godin LGX - VG-99

admin

Quote from: Martin Turner on May 13, 2019, 03:17:21 PM
I've never experienced this interference, even in high wifi use areas. However, we keep our transmitters fairly close to our receivers (ie, on stage). I would expect to do the same with a guitar to VG connection.

I've heard plenty of interference on UHF over the years. And had problems with GK cables.

Obviously, mileage varies from situation to situation,.

https://community.musictribe.com/t5/Mixing/X-Air-18-LOSING-CONNECTION/td-p/230756

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/live-sound/941576-dl1608-wifi-problems.html

http://cacophony.aspinock.com/index.php?topic=948.0

https://www.soundonsound.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=56596


chrish

I've never had a problem with a 13 pin cable. Have two that came with the 2 GR50s and gk2s that I purchased in the mid 90s. They have seem heavy use including 6 years of summer bar, restaurant and yearly hippie Festival.

One of the gk2s doesn't hold the cable well now but that's it.

Could be the dry climate or maybe  making sure they're coiled correctly and using the chord slack behind the guitar strap strain relief trick.




gumbo

Quote from: chrish on May 13, 2019, 06:54:04 PM
I've never had a problem with a 13 pin cable. Have two that came with the 2 GR50s and gk2s that I purchased in the mid 90s. They have seem heavy use including 6 years of summer bar, restaurant and yearly hippie Festival.

One of the gk2s doesn't hold the cable well now but that's it.

Could be the dry climate or maybe  making sure they're coiled correctly and using the chord slack behind the guitar strap strain relief trick.

Same here BTW.. (in Oz)...my problems always were what the cables plugged INTO...
...which led me to doing something about that... ;)

Peter

Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...