SY-300 - Sequencer Issues

Started by Radu, May 23, 2017, 12:23:24 PM

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Radu

I can't really find a way to precisely make use of the sequencer other than maybe getting lucky and playing a note at the beginning of the cycle (or adjusting to the tempo once I've already played a note). The Tap Tempo control doesn't help either because there's no way of telling which is your 1. Assigning a control for turning the sequencer on and off is a waste of time in this regard as well, as the sequence will continue it's cycle regardless (turning the sequencer off and then on won't reset it). So is there a way to make the sequencer act more like an envelope filter? so that each time I play a note it will (re)start the sequence at the set tempo/rate? Cause if not, there isn't really a reliable way to use the sequencer in a live scenario (unless you dig the randomness or it's some symmetrical pattern). Thanks!

PS: I know there was a similar topic here but I've looked multiple times in all threads and couldn't find it, I've used the search as well.

BBach

You probably already know this, but your sequencer has to send midi sync out to the SY300 and the SY300 has to be set to receive it. Once this happens, you can verify they are in sync by playing a sequence at different tempos. The time based processing should slow or speed up to match the tempo of your sequence. When you have this working, the sy300 should respond the same way at at any point in the song every time. For instance, if you set an oscillator sequencer so that the amount of steps equals one measure, and set say the first two steps up an octave and leave the rest alone, then every measure will start an octave up, then drop to normal until it goes up an octave again at the start of the next measure.

Radu

Quote from: BBach on May 23, 2017, 02:33:51 PM
You probably already know this, but your sequencer has to send midi sync out to the SY300 and the SY300 has to be set to receive it. Once this happens, you can verify they are in sync by playing a sequence at different tempos. The time based processing should slow or speed up to match the tempo of your sequence. When you have this working, the sy300 should respond the same way at at any point in the song every time. For instance, if you set an oscillator sequencer so that the amount of steps equals one measure, and set say the first two steps up an octave and leave the rest alone, then every measure will start an octave up, then drop to normal until it goes up an octave again at the start of the next measure.

Not sure I understand... I'm using the sequencer function of the SY-300. Surely I'm missing something, because the sequence is already tied to the tempo (today while I was doing tests I had it set to quarter notes, and those are always in sync with the tempo). And the way this functions is what I find to be problematic. I have no problem in creating a sequence that fits the measure. The problem is that I have to sync to it by luck, or by adjusting. Because the sequence is constantly cycling while I am not playing. I want the sequence to be triggered by my input, I want it to start on my "command", instead of having to figure out at which point in the sequence I decided to play, and then adjust. I am wondering if there is a way to do just that. Because it seems like this whole sequencer feature wasn't given much thought, but I hope I'm wrong.

BBach

I think the only way you can accomplish this is to be sync' up to a DAW or some other hardware sequencer that transmits midi sync. The SY300 does not have any way of letting you know where in the measure you are. The DAW will let you know both visually and sonically fron the other sounds playing.

Radu

Quote from: BBach on May 23, 2017, 06:01:01 PM
I think the only way you can accomplish this is to be sync' up to a DAW or some other hardware sequencer that transmits midi sync. The SY300 does not have any way of letting you know where in the measure you are. The DAW will let you know both visually and sonically fron the other sounds playing.

I thought that was the case from the experimenting I did. I was hoping there was a way, but ah well. Thanks a lot for the reply! Will have to try what you describe. Starting to see the limitations and flaws of this unit for myself. Still like it though. Makes you wonder why they wouldn't simply address all of this in updates and make the unit rise to it's full potential.

gumtown

Quote from: BBach on May 23, 2017, 06:01:01 PM
I think the only way you can accomplish this is to be sync' up to a DAW or some other hardware sequencer that transmits midi sync. The SY300 does not have any way of letting you know where in the measure you are. The DAW will let you know both visually and sonically fron the other sounds playing.

I think you have 'the wrong end of the stick' here, it is not an issue of sync or tempo.
The SY-300 has an internal 16 step sequencer as a part of each oscillator.
What I understand is each string pluck, you want the 16 step sequencer to begin at step 1, rather than it continuing on it's 16 step cycle.

I have not visited the SY-300 for a while, but I seem to recall the sequencer will continue to cycle the 16 steps (or how many steps you set it up to end) while there is a signal.
If you mute the input and then strike another note, it should start at step 1.

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Radu

Quote from: gumtown on May 24, 2017, 02:51:54 AM
I think you have 'the wrong end of the stick' here, it is not an issue of sync or tempo.
The SY-300 has an internal 16 step sequencer as a part of each oscillator.
What I understand is each string pluck, you want the 16 step sequencer to begin at step 1, rather than it continuing on it's 16 step cycle.

I have not visited the SY-300 for a while, but I seem to recall the sequencer will continue to cycle the 16 steps (or how many steps you set it up to end) while there is a signal.
If you mute the input and then strike another note, it should start at step 1.

Ok, I'm not exactly sure how one would go about achieving this.

BBach

Gumtown, Maybe there is a setting I'm missing, but the way mine is set, the the sequencer runs continually and is not started or stopped by the presence or absence of a guitar signal.

chlorinemist

#8
Triggering is so vital with these kind of fx. I dont have an SY-300 but i had a Hologram Dream Sequence and it behaved the same way. The sequence just plays at whatever rate it's set at, and you are basically expected to play along with it, rather than the other way around.

When I first bought the dream sequence i imagined it'd be like a guitar equivalent of the arpeggiator on my Juno 6. But a synth arpeggiator works much differnetly than these fx. The juno's arpeggios are triggered by the notes you play, and the pattern lengths are determined by the number of simultaneous notes you play in a chord. It is a much more intuitive music making tool than something like the MURF or Dream Sequence. Obviously a hex pickup and midi would be required to fully achieve something like a synth arpeggiator for guitar, but you would think that these step sequenced fx pedals we keep seeing would at least attempt to implement envelope triggering options. Without it, controlling your fx with a step sequencer only makes sense if you are making fully sequenced music.
Considering it's impossible for sequencers to play guitars (and even if they could, it'd be kinda missing the point of guitars), this limits the practical application of these fx to using for tacking some guitar licks on top of songs that are built mostly upon programmed backing tracks. Which means you can't sit down and just *write a song* with your guitar. And thats lame.

Hope gumtown is right and they did implement something to address this

zaiten

#9
The SY300 sequencer is flawed and useless for live use. Any synthesizer sequencer out there has had a "key sync: ON/OFF", LEGATO, RETRIG or NOTE SYNC parameter to trigger it manually. ROLAND could easily fix this with an update. turning off and on the SEQ doesn't reset the steps. It keeps cycling even when it's disengaged. every other module triggers instantaneously with picking, which leads me to believe the SEQ was intentionally designed to behave as it does. I'm curious to find out if the external midi Sync lets you reset the sequencer cycle, but I doubt it. Did you solve this issue in some way?

ElliotG

#10
You can have the start of a sequence be triggered by a footswitch or MIDI using the Sync Start capability.

For Live use I'd suggest the following setup:
You could do the same thing on any CTL or MIDI assign.  To do a quick evaluation you could try in with CTL1.

On CTL1 set the Assign 1 mode to Manual, set the Target Category to "SEQ ALL OFF/ON"
On CTL1 set the Assign 2 mode to Manual, set the Target Category to "SYNC START"

This way when you press CTL1 the sequencer will start, and start and beginning of the sequence. When you press CTL1 again the sequencer will stop, on the next press the sequencer will come on at the start of the sequence.

Let me know how this works out for you - and if this is what you were looking for.

zaiten

#11
Quote from: ElliotG on September 30, 2018, 06:10:56 PM
You can have the start of a sequence be triggered by a footswitch or MIDI using the Sync Start capability. For Live use I'd suggest the following setup:
You could do the same thing on any CTL or MIDI assign.  To do a quick evaluation you could try in with CTL1.
On CTL1 set the Assign 1 mode to Manual, set the Target Category to "SEQ ALL OFF/ON"
On CTL1 set the Assign 2 mode to Manual, set the Target Category to "SYNC START"
This way when you press CTL1 the sequencer will start, and start and beginning of the sequence. When you press CTL1 again the sequencer will stop, on the next press the sequencer will come on at the start of the sequence. Let me know how this works out for you - and if this is what you were looking for.

Thanks! It does work but it requires an additional step: 1) TARGET CATEGORY is "CONT-ROL" (located all the way to the end of the list) and the TARGET is "SYNC START". 2) the Sequencer "RATE" has to be set to a BPM parameter, sync does not work with the numerical values (1-100). Roland dropped the ball with this pedal on that regard, "SYNC START" should have been a default global setting!

It's worth mentioning that the LFO 1&2 can also be synced with the same procedure, however it does not work on WAVE assigns. It's too bad the LFO section doesn't have a "STRUM TRIGGER" or "PICK SYNC", I find it cumbersome to reset the LFO by tapping.

ElliotG

Quote from: zaiten on November 04, 2018, 09:31:57 PM
"SYNC START" should have been a default global setting

I'm sure you know that if you set the assign to 'System' (rather than patch) it becomes a global setting. 

Thanks for sharing the additional details. I didn't realize the sync only worked with RATE set to a BPM based setting.  Nice to know the LFO's can be synced the same way.

zaiten

Quote from: ElliotG on November 05, 2018, 06:04:04 AM
I'm sure you know that if you set the assign to 'System' (rather than patch) it becomes a global setting. 
Didn't know that, thanks. I left Assign#6 in CTL3 set for trigger syncing on all LFO/SEQ based presets.

Synfendia

I'm not able to get that trick to work.
Here's what I have for my CTL1:

ASSIGN1
>CTL MODE:PATCH
>ASSIGN OFF/ON: ON
>ASSIGN MODE: MANUAL
>TARGET CATEGORY: CONTROL
>TARGET: SEQ ALL OFF/ON
TARGET MIN: OFF
TARGET MAX: ON
SOURCE MODE: TOGGLE

ASSIGN2
>CTL MODE:PATCH
>ASSIGN OFF/ON: ON
>ASSIGN MODE: MANUAL
>TARGET CATEGORY: CONTROL
>TARGET: SYNC START
TARGET MIN: OFF
TARGET MAX: ON
SOURCE MODE: TOGGLE

My Sequencer is BPM-based (16th notes)
What am I doing wrong?
I cannot get this thing to start on the One count that I want....

Thanks

admin

Upload and share your problem patch so others may debug

Synfendia

Thanks for the support, gang.
As you all probably know, there's a bit of a learning curve to this thing.

Attached is the patch I am trying to troubleshoot. I am trying to be able to predictably start this sequence on the 1, so I can time it with our drummer.

Any help or suggestions are very appreciated.
Cheers!


ElliotG

#17
In assign #2 for the sync-start,  change the source mode to moment.  This should do it.  Let me know how it works out. 
Just a reminder, you will also want to assign BPM tap - unless you have the tempo coming from midi clock.

ASSIGN2
>CTL MODE:PATCH
>ASSIGN OFF/ON: ON
>ASSIGN MODE: MANUAL
>TARGET CATEGORY: CONTROL
>TARGET: SYNC START
TARGET MIN: OFF
TARGET MAX: ON
SOURCE MODE: MOMENT

Synfendia

I think my main problem was noise from my input causing the sequencer to keep going. There was a low level hum was not allowing the sequencer to catch a break.
Once I calibrated my guitar input, the problem was resolved