PRIMOVA MIDX-20 Dual Roland USB MIDI Converter / Ctrl Interface

Started by CodeSmart, March 05, 2016, 05:20:19 PM

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Dunny Daw

Can the MIDX-20 provide power via the 5-pin midi?

I have purchased a Roland UM-One mk 2, and it works great for connecting the MIDX-20 to the PC, and programming the MIDX-20.

I've also got a KMI SoftStep 2, and have been able to program it (sort of) from the PC.

I have had the SS2 controlling a Boss GT-1 via MIDX-20, using the two USB UPR and LWR ports of the MIDX-20.

But I wanted to use the SS2 as an input into the 5-pin Midi In on MIDX-20, and use the two USB UPR and LWR ports to control a GT-1 and a GP-10, or similar.

The Roland UM-One seems to need power to work, and isn't getting it (apparently) from the MIDX-20.  I even tried connecting the UM-One to the GT-1 to see if that worked, but still no power.

I see in the examples for the MIDX-20, connecting a 5 pin MIDI Out to a Boss pedal, but those examples would all need a midi-to-USB converter cable, like a UM-One, so will need to get power somehow?

Any thoughts?

Elantric

http://www.primovasound.com/midx_20.html
QuotePower   
-   The unit is powered by standard 9V Pedal adapters or any phone charger (5V) into the mini USB connector. Current (amps) rating: If you are using GT,GP,VG,SY or Mustang devices, the required current is just a few milliamps (mA), however if you are connecting high current devices (500mA or more), please consult the manual of the device and find a supply that is powerful enough.


You must supply DC power source for the MIDX-20 , ( I recommend a Truetone One-Spot )  then the MIDX-20 can power it self
and many types of connected USB MIDI devices
When the  UM-ONE MKII is connected to MIDX-20 via USB, the MIDX-20 will also power the UM-ONE MKII

Dunny Daw

Thanks, Elantric, but I think maybe I didn't ask my question clearly.

I do have a 9v DC powering the MIDX-20, and that is good.

I was hoping to connect:-

1.  MIDX-20 USB UPR  ---> GT-1; via USB cable
2.  MIDX-20 USB LWR  ---> GP-10; via USB cable
3.  SoftStep 2 --> USB type B to USB type A cable --> USB female to female adapter --> USB end of Roland UM-ONE --> 5 pin MIDI end of Roland UM-ONE --> 5 pin MIDI IN of MIDX-20

But there isn't power to drive the UM-ONE for it to connect, or (I think) to then power the SoftStep 2

I was then thinking I could connect the SoftStep 2 to the MIDX-20 USB LWR via a USB type B to USB type A cable (which works, and powers the SaftStep 2) and maybe connect the GT-1 (or GP-10, no difference) to the MIDX-20 as follows:-

4.  5 pin MIDI OUT of MIDX-20 --> 5 pin MIDI end of Roland UM-ONE --> USB female to female adapter --> USB type A to USB type B cable --> GT-1 (or GP-10)

but again there is no power to the UM-ONE to make the connection.

The female to female adapter is necessary because the SoftStep 2 has a USB type B connection (the big square type), and the UM-ONE has a USB Type A cable end.  It is a cheap adapter, maybe that is an issue?

Elantric

Quote5 pin MIDI OUT of MIDX-20 --> 5 pin MIDI end of Roland UM-ONE --> USB female to female adapter --> USB type A to USB type B cable --> GT-1 (or GP-10)

Maybe a former Radio Shack manager recommended that connection,  but that will never work

and i'm amazed that many folks have access to arcane USB adapters  that I rarely see in stores.


Learn about USB

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15763.0
MIDI foot controllers with USB connection I know ( as well as the Boss GP-10, Fishman Tripleplay, Line6 FBV Shortboard MKII , KMI SoftStep II, UM ONE MKII   are:
USB Client (EndPoint) devices

You need a USB Host - and you already used the only two USB host ports you have ( on the MIDX-20 with GT-1 and GP-10  )

You need a MIDI foot controller with a true 5 pin DIN MIDI out to connect to MIDX-20's  5pin MIDI Input

                                                         (KMI Expander EXPAND port is NOT a USB Host port)


Consider getting the KMI MIDi Expander ( an a separate USB Power supply for the KMI SS2  to get a true 5 pin MIDI Output connection  - or use a different MIDI foot controller ( FCB-1010) with a true 5 pin MIDI Output connection 
https://support.keithmcmillen.com/hc/en-us/categories/200240785-MIDI-Expander



The USB Bus requires One device to act as USB HOST Device - and those are typically computers 
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/49140/what-exactly-are-the-difference-between-a-usb-host-and-device

The USB Host port initiates all communication on the USB bus, the USB Endpoint device only responds when asked by the USB Host. For Details see the specs on usb.org.
http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/devclass_docs/

(And tell anyone you know (Marketing Manager's, etc) to study the USB Specification before they vote to omit the 5pin DIN MIDI I/O jacks from new gear just to save $2.00 cost.

gumtown

I have said this before,
but using that USB joiner is like plugging a computer keyboard directly into a printer,
and expecting to print out the letters as you type.
Won't work for many reasons, USB powered devices would not get powered.
The devices would not receive firmware driver support from the host device.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

CodeSmart

Dunny Daw,
To do what you want you need yet another MIDX-20.

Two MIDX-20 and a short normal MIDI cable will do it.
* SS2 into MIDX(1) USB LWR
* MIDX(1) MIDI OUT to MIDX(2) MIDI IN
* MIDX(2) USB LWR & UPR into your devices.

To promote your decision I sell you another MIDX-20 with a little ding in the casing for half price $92.5USD. Contact me soon if interested. Also later I want a photo of your final rig  ;D
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

cags12

I would be interested in B-Stock half price MIDX-20 if Dunny Daw will not want it. PM me in such case please.

CodeSmart

Quote from: cags12 on February 10, 2018, 05:44:24 AM
I would be interested in B-Stock half price MIDX-20 if Dunny Daw will not want it. PM me in such case please.
Done and sold!
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

CodeSmart

Posted new firmware today.

V2.7 2018-02-12
New: Added CC# for Bank Up/Down for MS-1 MIDI Bridge
Bug: Foot switch CC# increment/decrement mode fixed

Updated documents and firmware download here:
http://primovasound.com/midx_20_page2.html

But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

Dunny Daw

Blokes,

Thanks for the various replies, and sorry for my late reply - got really tied up with work for the last few days.

@Gumtown
Quote from: gumtown on February 09, 2018, 11:29:04 PM
using that USB joiner is like plugging a computer keyboard directly into a printer,
and expecting to print out the letters as you type.

I knew that the connector wasn't providing any computing horsepower, and I wasn't expecting it to do so.  In my mind, it was like cutting off the Type A connector and soldering in its place a Type B connector.  I went down this path because I saw an illustration in the MIDX-20 manual where Boss pedals were connected to the Mdi In and Out of the MIDX-20.  I mistakenly assumed this was a Midi-to-USB cable, but later realised the various devices CodeSmart showed there were devices that had Midi in and Out on the device, so connection would be a Midi-to-Midi cable.  I also mistakenly thought the computing power was provided by the MIDX-20.
Been thinking about it a bit more since then and realised more what is going on.

@Elantric
Quote(And tell anyone you know (Marketing Manager's, etc) to study the USB Specification before they vote to omit the 5pin DIN MIDI I/O jacks from new gear just to save $2.00 cost.
I'll do that, but the only Marketing Managers I know are trying to sell me railway rollingstock, and not that interested in a Midi port on the train anywhere.

@CodeSmart
QuoteTo promote your decision I sell you another MIDX-20 with a little ding in the casing for half price $92.5USD.
Thank you for this kind offer, it's one of those things where I am thinking I am costing myself money not to buy it.  (And it looks like it is already sold).  I have already bought a few components off you, and if I tell the Leader of the Opposition I am sending more money to my mate in Sweden, she will go ballistic.  I'm pretty sure there is a MIDX-10 here somewhere, I've just got to lay my hands on it again.  And I will look to see if I have any Midi interface I can use as an alternative (just to see if I can get it working that way).


Then at the end of all that, I have to work out how to program the SS2 to do change presets on the GT-1 (can do this via the Basic editor), but also change assigns within a preset on the GT-1 (haven't been successful with this yet, in the Advanced editor).


Thanks all.

CodeSmart

If find no other last resort than receiving a ballistic attack, please let me know, I might have more enclosures with dings or ugly print... 8)
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

admin

Or Consider getting the KMI MIDi Expander $59 ( and a separate USB Power supply ($9) for the KMI SS2  to get a true 5 pin MIDI Output connection  to the one MIDX-20
https://support.keithmcmillen.com/hc/en-us/categories/200240785-MIDI-Expander

CodeSmart

MIDX-20 V2.8 firmware is now available.
Thanks for reporting issues and feeding me new ideas.

All software upgrades and new features are free. Now heading towards adding a GP-10 Bridge...

MIDX-20 Release notes:
V2.8 2018-04-01
New: Added CC# for GT-1 Solo Switch, Solo level and Tuner on/off [Peter K.]
Bug: Fixed Bridges initialization problem with UPR USB (ex: Wha not working after connect etc.) [Several]
Bug: Fixed FS-6/FS-7 toggling problem when footswitch is in latched mode [Bob M.]

Get it here:
http://primovasound.com/midx_20_page2.html

GT-1 Bridge documentation updated:
http://primovasound.com/pdf/MIDX_20_GT1.pdf

( btw. 160+ Guitarists now owning a MIDX-20 :D )
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

beatpete

Quote from: CodeSmart on April 01, 2018, 01:14:17 PM
MIDX-20 V2.8 firmware is now available.
Thanks for reporting issues and feeding me new ideas.

All software upgrades and new features are free. Now heading towards adding a GP-10 Bridge...

MIDX-20 Release notes:
V2.8 2018-04-01
New: Added CC# for GT-1 Solo Switch, Solo level and Tuner on/off [Peter K.]
Bug: Fixed Bridges initialization problem with UPR USB (ex: Wha not working after connect etc.) [Several]
Bug: Fixed FS-6/FS-7 toggling problem when footswitch is in latched mode [Bob M.]

Get it here:
http://primovasound.com/midx_20_page2.html

GT-1 Bridge documentation updated:
http://primovasound.com/pdf/MIDX_20_GT1.pdf

( btw. 160+ Guitarists now owning a MIDX-20 :D )

Thanks so much!

gumtown

9 patches on the Katana if you count the PANEL channel too.
Any more than 9 patches and the Katana will just ignore them.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

vtgearhead

Quote from: CodeSmart on April 01, 2018, 01:14:17 PM
( btw. 160+ Guitarists now owning a MIDX-20 :D )

At this rate you will become a thousand-aire in no time at all :-).  Seriously, thanks again for all your efforts and amazing energy level!



CodeSmart

MIDX GP-10 Bridge (probably ending in a more or less full set of GP-10 commands) started and is going on well.
It's actually just tedious work 8)
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

beatpete

Quote from: CodeSmart on April 07, 2018, 03:25:46 PM
MIDX GP-10 Bridge (probably ending in a more or less full set of GP-10 commands) started and is going on well.
It's actually just tedious work 8)

Fantastic!

spankygtr

#593
Hi, I just got the MIDX-20, and I'm trying to figure out the most versatile configuration with these 4 units. I don't intend to use the GP-10 with a standard guitar, so it will only be used occasionally with my Zion Strat style with internal GK-2. However, I'd still like to be able to use it's 2 control pedals, and expression pedal, to control effects changes on the Katana (and possibly the MS-3, if that's possible), with my other guitars, even if the GP-10 is being bypassed.
It looks like I can send midi from the MS-3 to the MIDX Midi In, and have it's Midi Out go to the Katana. One of it's USB ports goes to the GP-10. Then the GP-10's control changes can be merged with the MIDX's so the midi going to the Katana will be what's coming from the MS-3 combined with the cc's generated by the GP-10's switches. Should this work well, say, if I wanted to use the GP-10's expression pedal as a volume pedal for the Katana? And the GP-10's control pedals work as fx on/off? It appears from the MIDX's documentation that this should work. Has anybody here done this?
Also, I wonder if there's anyway to utilize the 2nd USB port on the MIDX to switch stuff on the MS-3? To use the MIDX's control ports (or, hopefully, even use cc's from the GP-10)? Would this create some sort of midi feedback loop or something? Thanks in advance for any help with this!

CodeSmart

Option 1
for full control of MS-3
GP-10 to LWR USB and
MS-3 to UPR USB ports.
Katana to MIDI out.

RED mode on MIDX
Start from there. Don't think you need to connect MS-3 via MIDI (redundant).
Make sure firmware has a MS3 option installed (if you got it recently, that's the default). Make sure you have latest firmware 2.8
http://primovasound.com/midx_20_page2.html

Get Boome SendSX PC program to see what GP-10 and MS-3 actually transmitts by connecting a USB-to-MIDI cable to MIDI out (temporarily replacing the Katana)

Option 2
for full control of Katana:
GP-10 USB LWR
Katana USB UPR
MS-3 to MIDI IN

In this option you cannot control MS-3


But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

spankygtr


beatpete

Quote from: spankygtr on April 11, 2018, 10:18:46 PM
Hi, I just got the MIDX-20, and I'm trying to figure out the most versatile configuration with these 4 units. I don't intend to use the GP-10 with a standard guitar, so it will only be used occasionally with my Zion Strat style with internal GK-2. However, I'd still like to be able to use it's 2 control pedals, and expression pedal, to control effects changes on the Katana (and possibly the MS-3, if that's possible), with my other guitars, even if the GP-10 is being bypassed.


FYI The GP-10 only transmits : expression (cc11) from the pedal and sustain from ctrl 1 (cc64 if turned on in settings) and of course note and pitchbend. Unfortunately, no midi is sent from the external ctrls, GK switches, cntr2 or any of the GK controls.

Not sure if any of these will be available with Codesmart's upcoming GP-10 bridge for the MIDX-20, but I doubt it.

CodeSmart

Quote from: beatpete on April 14, 2018, 10:48:02 AM
Not sure if any of these will be available with Codesmart's upcoming GP-10 bridge for the MIDX-20, but I doubt it.
Well, that kind of talk triggers me. What do you exactly want? Just give me a list. Please.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

carlb

If I understand correctly, there's nothing the MIDX-20 or Bridge can do to pickup and transmit GP-10 control switches if the GP-10 isn't sending out messages when those switches are pressed.

But, external switches can be connected directly to the MIDX-20, and either/both the Katana or GP-10 can be setup to respond to those messages.

This seems to be a good avenue to investigate, see if these could do what is needed.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

beatpete

Quote from: CodeSmart on April 14, 2018, 03:33:16 PM
Well, that kind of talk triggers me. What do you exactly want? Just give me a list. Please.

I just meant to inform the previous poster (as carlb reiterated) that the midi functionality isn't there for the switches and I presume that they couldn't be accessed.