SY-300 - I/O Connection scenarios

Started by mchad, April 18, 2015, 05:51:43 PM

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mchad

I know the SY-300 is shiny new and not out and about yet but if you buy it how will you incorporate it into your rigs.

All I/4 inch? For instance, GT100 and SY-300 (big pedalboard!)

Alongside your hex machines? i.e GP10 and SY-300


Rhcole

Dang, I was just thinking about that.

If it really is great, parallel to the GP-10- I've never liked the GP-10 synths anyway. The Osc is too much trouble and the other synths are not very versatile.

And then the SY-300 on it's own with my other guitars.

I'm sure I will keep my Blofeld pedal board though for REAL synths controlled via Hex, unless the SY-300 is so startling that it changes everything. Not likely unless Roland got I/C chips from 10 years in the future or something. The Blofeld is a great product as is the Fishman Triple Play.

thebrushwithin

My first test will be with guitar, of course. But one of my goals is to use it with a wireless headset mic, into a VoiceLive, then out to the SY - polyphonic and mono synth via voice! It is great to be an electronic musician at this time!

MusicOverGear

#3
My current pedalboard is just a GP-10 with a comprehensive MIDI foot controller

My new fantasy is that I will rebuild my pedalboard similarly with GP-10 AND SY-300.

I will send the Guitar Out of the GP-10 to the input of the SY-300

SY-300 audio output back into GP-10 Aux In

GP-10 out to [house/whatevs]

Basically every top level patch would be a multi that includes both GP-10 and SY-300. For a basic clean strat patch the GP-10 will be strat compressor clean twin, and the SY-300 will be a "MUTED" patch with everything turned off. A super saw multi like Party Rock Anthem could do it just like the recording - one patch for the meat and another for that aluminum softball bat type POINK sound. Another familiar multi: Katy Perry Firework could have one slow, broad filter sweep while the other stays present in the middle ground. And on and on...

Should boost the capability of synth lead patches to RETARDED level. If I build this pedalboard and you try to cut me on 4's I WILL SHOUT YOU DOWN LOL

IDK what the final MIDI interface would be in this scenario. It is beyond easy to do it if I always have MainStage running - I can do all GP-10 and SY-300 patch navigating in the MainStage channel strips and navigate MainStage patches with any midi foot controller. Currently I don't take a computer to every gig - I feel like I need $200 minimum to bring real pro gear to a show. Under that it helps my sanity to bring a really minimal, inexpensive rig, like, "You'll get what I give you and if you don't like it you can shop around." Narcissistic bandleaders and sociopathic promoters fuuuuuuuu...

If I add an SY-300 IDK if a standalone pedalboard without a Mac will continue to be ideal. Portability and usability would remain great, but I can't figure in my head a way to manage a library of multis that is as simple and fast as what I have now, which uses a Raspberry Pi to simply echo messages from a simple MIDI foot controller to the GP-10. If I continue that way, I will have to coordinate LiveSets between two libraries with perfect precision. If I manage the complexity within the Pi, I will have to jack into that separate OS and set it up perfectly before every show. My best idea at the moment doesn't sound so rosy: I could build an Arduino based foot controller (with a Pi to simply echo MIDI to the Roland stuff) that only has hardware programming. E.g. There could be 3x two-digit displays for Master Patch #, GP-10 Patch #, and SY-300 Patch number. Turn 3 knobs to where it lines up the way I want and tap a WRITE button. That could work. Then add a switch to make it a generic MIDI controller for when I use MainStage.

Man... sounds like SO much work... Just off the top of my head I would honestly rather just schlep a Mac to every gig. That solves all my problems in one easy step - it's just that the step is repeated on every gig while I use this rig. More cartage, more setup, more teardown. Still I'm always the first one up and running and the first to my car with my rig - including old school guitar players - so it's not like I'm breaking down an elaborate drum set... Also my intuition tells me I would adapt instantly to using a Mac on every gig, and the purpose-built new thing would be trials and tribulations for weeks. In that scenario there is still complex problem solving - but the problem is internal: how do I have a worry-free good time on a low-paying gig when I'm bringing my "good" gear? I'd basically have to raise my standards of which gigs I take or change my boundaries of what equity I'm willing to accept. It can be done but it's a problem either way...

I will prototype the GP-10 SY-300 combo with stuff I have lying around, figure it out, then build it small and ergonomic. Finished pedalboard - if it happens at all - will be very small and very light. I carry all gear - including a powered monitor - in one trip without a cart. Must be able to carry it 2 city blocks. That's just how I want to live my life. E.g. last nite I played some... I'm not sure what it was - the group was Filipino nurses - in a GIANT hotel downtown. Loaded in on the loading dock and still had to schlep my stuff a good quarter mile to the stage. That kinda stuff trains you REAL FAST to pare down to essentials.

That's my latest fantasy. I should really stop thinking about this box - haven't even seen the manual yet. It does bother me a bit that I didn't really long for such a device before April 2015. I just heard about it and now all of a sudden I NEED IT!!! LOL Seriously that's some junkie type BS there. I usually take pride in not buying new stuff I don't really need. I would feel less foolish if I at least waited until I heard THE VERY FIRST polished, usable synth sound out of the SY-300. Sounds I've heard so far seem top-heavy and buzzy. It could very well still turn out to be useless to me.

IDK I'm open to try it - see what I can do with it. After living with the idea for a few days I very much like that the SY-300 has a very low ceiling of hard limits - e.g. only 6 assigns. I think that will be very helpful in staving off the paradox of choice problem when combining with other gear.

mchad


Thanks MOG for that very comprehensive post and shining a light on the possibilities.


mbenigni

#5
QuoteIf I add an SY-300 IDK if a standalone pedalboard without a Mac will continue to be ideal.... Man... sounds like SO much work... More cartage, more setup, more teardown...

Daydreaming about all the same things right now.  I've been struggling with finding an effective pedalboard solution for the KPA for... well basically since I bought the damned thing, grrr... and now I'm kind of hoping that I could mangle the SY-300's MIDI output to effectively control the KPA when I'm not actually controlling SY patches.  That would be a nice light setup with a lot of tonal options.

Here's hoping Roland has made MIDI Output highly configurable for all of the switches on the SY chassis (unlike, for instance, those on the GR-55.)  I know Roland isn't paying any attention here, but FWIW, this could be a make or break for me.  I don't really want to add another pedal for tone generation, and then ANOTHER pedal to control it all.  Anything that arrives in foot-controller format must allow me to, you know, control stuff, with my foot.

scratch17

I have (as do others on this forum) a pretty complex setup in my guitar studio.

So here is how I see potential uses for SY-300 (with connection info).

Since I almost never play gigs, my needs are mostly studio oriented. All of my guitar gear is connected to my two Mackie ONYX 1620 mixers (as well as my MOTU audio interfaces) I can patch just about anything to anything else.

For electric guitar output I use a Radial JDV feeding a Mesa Boogie Recording Recto Pre, and a KPA. I send a completely dry electric guitar signal via the JDV to my DAW. Analog outputs from the Mesa Recto Pre goes to a Mesa 20/20 amp and speakers. The outputs from the KPA go to a line level input on a 1620 mixer, which feeds my two Line 6 L2ms.

I have a GK-3 mounted on my Hamer Duotone feeding an RMC Fanout Box which will be connected via a GK cable to my VG-99 (when it arrives next week). I'll send a pair of VG-99 analog outputs to the mixer / L2Ms for monitoring and S/PDIF to the DAW. I also plan to use the VG-99 as a front end for alternate tunings with the Mesa and KPA.

The Fanout Box has a 6 channel TRS to 2 x TS snake connected to its six string TRS jacks. I use the sends to go to my DAW (plugged into 6 inputs on one of the MOTUs) and the returns come back from the DAW, also maintaining each string individually.

With this setup, I can print a group of six tracks to my DAW via the GK3 --> Fanout.

I can process the sound of each string in my DAW or leave them dry.

Then I can return the tracks to whatever processor I want for re-amping on a string by string basis.

This is one of the ways I can see using an SY-300. I can dedicate different SY-300 sounds to all the strings individually, or any group of strings. It will be like having six SY-300s. Of course after I process each string, I print a track back into my DAW. Since I am not processing more than a single string at a time, the quality of the polyphony of the SY-300 is irrelevant.

For the piezo electric output of the Hamer, I use a Fishman Aura Spectrum, which gives my a direct (dry) output feeding my DAW, with the processed output going to my mixer.

I may also patch the SY-300 serially with either the Aura, the Mesa Recto Pre or the KPA. Since I have patched each processor into my mixers, I have an easy way to add the SY-300 to almost any sound I want.

Whether I decide to buy the SY-300 depends on whether I like its sounds.

Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

thebrushwithin

#7
QuoteMan... sounds like SO much work...

You're not kidding! My vocal interface will be a little complex, so I am spending quite a bit of time reprogramming my old VoiceLive, ahead of the SY's delivery. Since I replaced it for normal live vocals for live, with the VoiceLive Touch 2, I will recycle it to trigger the SY300 oscillators. So, when the unit does arrive, the rest of my interface will be ready, with probably a bit of tweaking. And when the unit arrives, and I have the interface ready, then it will be only a matter of digging into the SY's engine, and make presets to compliment the VoiceLive's new presets. This takes some real organization cause I plan on using this live, at some point, and I don't need to get lost on stage. My wireless headset mic will be used strictly for the SY300, while my mic on a stand runs through the Touch2 . Mostly I use an exp pedal to mute instruments, but I love the ability on the SY to turn on/off the synth, and that may be the way to go. My FCB will be set for several lead instrument styles, solo, w/5ths, and other intervals, some with echo(so it will double trigger the OSC s). Then, I will have several presets set for chordal intervals(pitch mode only, so it is only dependent on my voice as root, and generates the pitch intervals. With the "Harmony Hold" button on the VoiceLive, I can hold intervals, while still soloing "vocally". The idea is to be able to play either lead or chords, on the guitar, while singing SY chords and solos, so it could get pretty nuts, which I really look forward to!
My single biggest threat to all of this working, will be how much polyphonic input the SY300 will allow, hoping it is at least 6 voice, and more would be too cool, so I can send a submix of guitar and VoiceLive, for some real crazy voicings. I feel quite certain the input will accommodate the VoiceLive output, one way or another, but we'll see. This will be my first real shot at using my voice as a polyphonic instrument, and I am jacked at the potential!

MusicOverGear

Quote from: thebrushwithin on April 26, 2015, 05:04:54 PM
On its own, that is for sure. But, if you are running a GP10, or VG anything, into it, you should be able to get the oscillators to respond to any alternate tuning. In fact, it does look like a companion piece to the GP10. Since you can select input as source, for one of the 3 oscillator paths, then you could send a mono out of the GP, with alternate tunings, into the SY, then process that alternate tuned guitar sound, with the SY's substantial fx, all while utilizing the other two oscillators, responding in kind with the alternate tuning. Also, it seems like you could utilize a very small mixer on the pedalboard, with the GP10's channels feeding the input of the SY300's via an aux out of the mixer. Lots of ways to do this.

NOOOOO why did you curse my mind with this great idea?! Now I need a midi switcher/mixer.

Elantric

Just add Raspberry Pi for remote MIDi I/O control of GP-10, and one of my iConnectivity boxes to receive the USB Receiver from Livid Guitar Wing- for Guitar mounted Controls for everything.

QuoteOn its own, that is for sure. But, if you are running a GP10, or VG anything, into it, you should be able to get the oscillators to respond to any alternate tuning. In fact, it does look like a companion piece to the GP10. Since you can select input as source, for one of the 3 oscillator paths, then you could send a mono out of the GP, with alternate tunings, into the SY, then process that alternate tuned guitar sound, with the SY's substantial fx, all while utilizing the other two oscillators, responding in kind with the alternate tuning. Also, it seems like you could utilize a very small mixer on the pedalboard, with the GP10's channels feeding the input of the SY300's via an aux out of the mixer. Lots of ways to do this.

thebrushwithin

QuoteJust add Raspberry Pi for remote MIDi I/O control of GP-10, and one of my iConnectivity boxes to receive the USB Receiver from Livid Guitar Wing- for Guitar mounted Controls for everything.

The only thing really hanging me up about the GP10, is that I hate so many outboard pieces connected, just for a midi control!!! My Raspberry Pi is in a small plastic housing, made for it, everything works, but I just hate the clumsy setup it brings. I guess I could just Velcro it strategically, in a pedalboard setup, but my druthers are rack mounted equipment with only a midi controller on the floor, or even better, the guitar wing.
I love clean setups, not a bunch of chords showing. However, rather than just gathering dust, if I used it with the SY300, it would be a pretty decent combo. I do like the sound, and having a 4th oscillator independent of the other 3, should be worth the trouble.

Elantric

#11
QuoteThe only thing really hanging me up about the GP10, is that I hate so many outboard pieces connected, just for a midi control!!

Agreed - but there's Plenty of room inside the GP-10 to mount the Raspberry PI inside under the expression pedal (thats my project this month)


thebrushwithin


MusicOverGear

#13
+1 planty of room inside GP-10. I put my split-off PCB for my FTP in there. And a few extra jacks. Still room for more stuff.

I mounted my Pi inside my old school midi foot controller. The Pi (B+ anyway) actually has holes for standoffs so it is easy to mount. It'll be a year in July and no problems so far. Go for it!

In my midi foot controller I used one of these to split power off of the controller's 9v PSU and the Pi's low voltage, high current input: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00EWFMDKO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

autodidactic

#14
Quote from: mchad on April 18, 2015, 05:51:43 PM
I know the SY-300 is shiny new and not out and about yet but if you buy it how will you incorporate it into your rigs...

I'd use an SY-300 to replace my FCB1010. Basically I'd assign all my patch and transport controls to specific notes. The only thing my foot would have to worry about is a single footswitch that makes Ableton "listen" for incoming notes/commands. The end result would be my bouzouki acting as a control surface for my entire Ableton playback rig. Thank the maker for Max for Live's javascript support!
1965 Gibson J45
1979 Gibson ES347
90's Epiphone Joe Pass
80's Yamaha Classical
Bouzouki by Dekavalas

Syph

Haha!

That is the best use of the GT100's guitar to midi I have ever heard!

I am going to go home and rethink my life for a while....

autodidactic

Actually I was referring to the SY-300. (I updated my post to clarify)
1965 Gibson J45
1979 Gibson ES347
90's Epiphone Joe Pass
80's Yamaha Classical
Bouzouki by Dekavalas

Elantric

#17
Quote
I'd use an SY-300 to replace my FCB1010. Basically I'd assign all my patch and transport controls to specific notes. The only thing my foot would have to worry about is a single footswitch that makes Ableton "listen" for incoming notes/commands. The end result would be my bouzouki acting as a control surface for my entire Ableton playback rig. Thank the maker for Max for Live's javascript support!

But Totally possible today with no computer for live FX changes / patch changes mapped to specific played notes. Use either GR-55 or GT100 or GT-001 performing Guitar to MIDI + Midi Solutions Event Processor Plus and 2 MIDI Cables. Or get combo of all the above and a MIDI Thru box.

EXCELLENT

autodidactic

Quote from: Elantric on April 30, 2015, 09:33:32 PM
But Totally possible today with no computer for live FX changes / patch changes mapped to specific played notes. Use either GR-55 or GT100 or GT-001 performing Guitar to MIDI + Midi Solutions Event Processor Plus and 2 MIDI Cables. Or get combo of all the above and a MIDI Thru box.

EXCELLENT

In my use case I would have a computer anyway because I'm using Ableton Live for backing tracks. As far as the other solutions you mentioned that require a GK, they're a no go because I need it for a bouzouki not a guitar.

Also, I'm not sure about the GT100 but isn't that monophonic? I need polyphony because I'd like to use Ableton like an arranger keyboard. I strum a chord and the harmony follows. The SY-300 would be perfect for this because it has a couple of stomp switches that can be used as  "listeners".

I can accomplish the stuff I mentioned already with an fcb1010 and the JamOrigin software. What the SY-300 would do is shrink the footprint down quite a bit and take some of the stress off of my laptop. (Running a 2007 macbook). Then again, for the price of the SY-300 I could just get a new computer. So who knows. The price might not be quite right but the features are.
1965 Gibson J45
1979 Gibson ES347
90's Epiphone Joe Pass
80's Yamaha Classical
Bouzouki by Dekavalas

Will Robinson

#19
I think I have a good pedal board set up planned. Let me know if you see any problems. I will have the FX-8 send program changes to the other units (I have the Raspberry Pi to handle midi to the GP-10).



With a non GK guitar I can just plug into the FX-8 and the GP-10 is out of the picture. I usually use the GP-10 with a separate instrument cable to the AmpliFIRE and keep the GK toggle to GK only...using the guitars volume pot and the GK volume pot to silence/blend either the magnetic pickups or the GK output.

In addition I think I'll be able to have FX-8 presets set up to call up the SY-300, and/or the AmpliFIRE, and/or the GP-10 in bypassed state depending on the sounds I'm looking for...

I just need Fractal to ship the FX-8 to get it all up and running.

szilard

I'll experiment with it when I get it, but I plan on using it with my hex equipment. Currently I have a vg-99 & gr-55 running in parallel. I'll try the sy-300 connected to the digital out of the vg-99 with the digital out tapped to cosm gtr a or b or normal pu.

Kevin M

Quote from: szilard on May 03, 2015, 12:48:30 PM
I'll experiment with it when I get it, but I plan on using it with my hex equipment. Currently I have a vg-99 & gr-55 running in parallel. I'll try the sy-300 connected to the digital out of the vg-99 with the digital out tapped to cosm gtr a or b or normal pu.

The SY-300 doesn't have a digital input on it (aside from USB)

szilard

I have a DAC that I use on the vg-99 digital out.

imerkat

Quote from: Will Robinson on May 02, 2015, 01:48:46 PM
I think I have a good pedal board set up planned. Let me know if you see any problems...

The only thing i see is if you have the SY-300 going to the input of the AmpliFIRE. You'll have it going through the cab block which would not be best sounding synth setup. I guess you already know and are going through the AUX input instead but it's not clear in the Diagram.

I would utilize the  AUX/ DI mode in the AmpliFIRE.

FX-8 send -> AF; AF DI Send -> SY input (GP in the loop), SY out -> AF AUX Stereo input back to the FX-8 Return.



Elantric

#24
Small rig is

13 pin Guitar > Boss GP-10 GK IN

Boss GP-10 Guitar OUT > Boss SY-300 Guitar IN

Boss SY-300 Main Stereo Out > Boss GP-10 Stereo AUX IN

Boss GP-10 Stereo out > Stereo DI Box > PA