Live gig in a virtual world - (Earn money in Second Life)

Started by Tukso, January 26, 2015, 01:53:43 PM

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Tukso

Tukso Okey performs live 9PM PST/SLT tonight ~ Jan 26 @ Saints and Sinners Biker Bar http://slurl.com/secondlife/Biker%20World/97/101/22

supernicd

Unfortunately that's pretty late in my time zone.  Until such time that I can catch your act, I'd be really interested to hear what you think about performing music live in a virtual 3D world.  I noticed you've done this more than once, so there must be something rewarding about it.
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Tukso

Quote from: SuperNiCd on January 26, 2015, 02:56:21 PM
Unfortunately that's pretty late in my time zone.  Until such time that I can catch your act, I'd be really interested to hear what you think about performing music live in a virtual 3D world.  I noticed you've done this more than once, so there must be something rewarding about it.

@SuperNiCd thanks for the interest. I have been performing in the virtual word for 8 years, and probably do close to about 600 - 800 shows a year there. The virtual world is simply a microcosm of real life gigs.... I get booked, I have a manager, a schedule I must maintain, regular customers (venues), fans, haters (called griefers), marketing plans, possiblly getting ripped off, making new fans, and of course MUSIC. Just like real life.

The virtual world career is a little different than real life gigs in that fans can instant message you while performing, or your manager, but so could any ass**** that felt a need to troll (internet style personality) and say mean negative things. Also, my overhead is somewhat lower in travel but higher cost of gear. My gear is costly because the internet affords me ability to stream at 320kbs, and that means everything... to include noise... so the gear has to be tight. What I don't spend on travel as a musician on the road, my overhead is in quality sound that gets broadcast on peoples computers through headphones or speakers as opposed to a stage scenario. So, there is a more immediate and intimate dialog from artist to audience. My music whispers or screams directly into people's ear canals with barely any air to travel to be colored or influenced by environment. I can literally whisper a concert in someones ear that is an audience member residing on the other side of the real life planet and create a space where if not for hot breath on a neck, you would close your eyes and think me in the room.

This bears a certain amount of responsibility on the musician that is trying to approach music as a way to make wages. If that is the goal, the the burden is you must never suck. If you do, you will suck immediately with very little air from suckiness to an unhappy ear canal somewhere around planet earth.  Lmfao

Peace @SuperNiCd ~


supernicd

QuoteI have been performing in the virtual word for 8 years, and probably do close to about 600 - 800 shows a year there. The virtual world is simply a microcosm of real life gigs.... I get booked, I have a manager, a schedule I must maintain, regular customers (venues), fans, haters (called griefers), marketing plans, possiblly getting ripped off, making new fans, and of course MUSIC.

I like to think of myself as tech savvy, 21st century guy.  But you just kind of blew my mind, Tusko!

So this isn't a hobby for you.  You're a full-time, and apparently very hard-working musician at 600+ gigs a year?  And you get paid for your efforts in some sort of virtual currency which I presume can be converted back into real currency that can buy, um, material goods and services?

That is pretty fascinating indeed.  I'd like to hear more about what kind of gear you're using, and will try to catch one of your shows here soon when one works with my schedule.  It does sound like a very unforgiving environment in terms of performance perfection.

Do any virtual drunks ever spill virtual beer on your real pedal board?  :)
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
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Elantric

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/04/07/second.life.singer/

Artists visit virtual Second Life for real-world cash
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Artists have turned to the virtual world of Second Life to make real-life money
Performers earn tips or are paid to play in certain virtual venues
Second Life is a 3-D computer world where avatars interact
Grace Buford of Georgia uses the program to supplement her music-teacher income

GRAYSON, Georgia (CNN) -- It's 9 a.m. when Cylindrian Rutabaga takes the microphone at a familiar bar.


An avatar named Cylindrian Rutabaga earns tips at a 9 a.m. show in a virtual bar.
Click to view previous image 1 of 3Click to view next image

The funny-named musician with crinkled red hair, a white blouse and flowing skirt picks up her custom-made guitar and looks across the audience with a blank stare.

Her fans already are rocking out: Some breakdance on the bar's tile floor. Others flail about with the vigor of '70s disco dancers. One man with a towering afro and 3-D glasses looks like he's swimming the backstroke to some nonexistent beat.

The randomness of the scene doesn't seem to faze Cylindrian.

She isn't shocked even when hordes of other fans -- including one man who wears a kilt and is followed by a small herd of sheep -- start teleporting into the room.

After all, Cylindrian lives in the online community of Second Life. Here, anything goes. Video Watch Cylindrian perform in Second Life »
http://secondlife.com


With the recording industry in near-shambles and the recession taking a hit on art of all kinds, some musicians, visual artists and fashion designers have turned to another virtual frontier -- Second Life -- to sell CDs, earn tips, move paintings and grow international followings.

The realm of Second Life -- available free online -- allows users to create avatar versions of themselves. These virtual personas mingle about in a three-dimensional, pixilated world not entirely unlike our own: Second Lifers own digital real estate, go to virtual jobs and attend virtual concerts and art shows.

They also spend money.

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iReport.com: Making money in Second Life
Second Life avatars purchase goods and services with a currency called Linden Dollars, or L$. They sometimes pay to attend concerts and often tip the performers in the virtual venues. Others buy clothing and hairdos for their online personas.

Linden Dollars can be converted into most of the world's currencies in the same way a foreign traveler might change dollars to Euros. The going rate is about 260 L$ for $1 U.S., according to the Second Life Web site.

Most of the Second Life world is organized on a grid, kind of like a real-world map. Avatars can enter x, y and z coordinates to "teleport" to a particular island or city. They can also fly and walk between locations, or search for places when they don't have coordinates.

More than 1 million people have signed up to use the program since it was created in 1999 by a San Francisco, California, company called Linden Lab.

As life in the real world gets tougher, more artists are turning to Second Life to supplement their incomes, said Mike Lawson, a 41-year-old who fronts as a drawling blues singer, Von Johin, in Second Life.

"You've got professional musicians from all genres coming into Second Life now and playing," he said. "The Internet is a great equalizer. You have people who have never played in front of anybody in their life getting a shot."

Linden Lab does not track the number of artists or concerts in Second Life, but there are likely thousands of musicians working in the simulated world, said John Lester, a developer at the company.

There also are about 600 visual art galleries in Second Life, and that number is increasing, according to the woman behind Bettina Tizzy, an avatar that blogs about the Second Life arts scene (Tizzy did not want her real name used for fear her real-life business clients would be alarmed she has a Second Life persona).

'People actually know your music'

Some avatars look nothing like their owners, but Cylindrian the computer creation looks somewhat similar to real-world folk musician Grace Buford, who controls the virtual-world singer from a cramped home office in suburban Atlanta.

Both Cylindrian and Grace have red hair. Both are 5 feet 3 inches tall. Both wear flowing, hippie-esque clothes that wouldn't look out of place at a Medieval festival. The noticeable difference between avatar and creator is that Buford wears glasses and Cylindrian doesn't.

"I wanted people to feel like they're having an interaction with the real me -- because they are," Buford said.

Buford, a 37-year-old single mother of two, wore fuzzy blue slippers and glasses as she belted out heartfelt melodies to a real-world audience of two reporters.

Normally she would be in her house alone after dropping off her 11-year-old son at school.

She sits with a guitar on her lap and a microphone and keyboard in front of her. A slender silver laptop on a table to her right shows her avatar performing to the dance-happy crowd in the Second Life venue.

About 70,000 people are logged in and wandering around the computer-based universe this recent morning. A few dozen have teleported themselves into Mandel 'BRATs & BREW,' a bar on a tropical island and artist community called Artropolis.

Cylindrian starts her hourlong set with an original song called "Mattie's Runaway Train."

Her avatar holds a guitar and her mouth opens and closes from time to time, but Cylindrian's movements don't quite mimic Buford's. When Buford stops playing, Cylindrian usually continues strumming silently. It's a setup that Buford admits is a bit awkward, but she says Second Lifers still get the point.

Buford streams the audio from her at-home performance straight into the virtual bar scene, where the audience hears it on about a 20-second delay. Followers send her text messages in Second Life while she plays, requesting songs, typing along with the lyrics and commenting on the show. iReport.com: Share stories from Second Life

"As an artist, it's so great that people actually know your music," she said between songs, her avatar still in autopilot, pounding silently on a piano. "They'll type in the lyrics as I'm singing. It's almost like they're singing along ... It's like, 'Oh, I'm a superstar for just a moment.' It's so cool!"

'Intimate conversation with the listener'

In some sense, Buford prefers this virtual interaction to real world concerts, which she also plays.

That's partly because, in Second Life, the audience can't drown you out with chatter.

"I can go into a club or a venue in the real world and people aren't listening. They're talking, laughing, carrying on. And as an artist, we're all a little bit narcissistic. We've created this work and we want to share it and have an intimate connection," she said. "On stage, you kind of think, 'What's the point of me being here?' In Second Life ... you're having that intimate conversation with the listener."

She also finds the virtual world less threatening.

Buford used to play open-mic shows frequently. But she felt threatened by drunk fans after one performance. In Second Life, she still gets real-time interaction with fans, and it's also less risky, she said.

Cylindrian was among the first musicians to start playing Second Life. Buford joined the virtual world in 2006 specifically to use it as a platform for her music. Her audience now extends into Australia and Europe, which never would have been possible without Second Life, she said. The evening after the 9 a.m. show, she was scheduled to play a concert with an artist from Wales.

Cylindrian plays Second Life shows several times per week, often at strange hours that let her catch audiences in other time zones. One of the weekly shows typically is scheduled for 11 p.m., which is "prime time" on the West Coast of the United States, she said.

She typically reserves her mellower songs for that performance because her duplex neighbor doesn't particularly appreciate late-night jams. For that reason, Buford said she's thinking about soundproofing the bare-walled office where she normally plays.

$10,000 per year helps feed family

Second Life so far has provided Buford with a supplement to her main sources of income, which include teaching music lessons and playing live shows in the real world. Both have taken a hit because of the recession, she said, which makes the $10,000 or so she earns in Second Life each year all the more important. (That amount includes CD sales to Second Life fans and CDs sold through the site).

"Because of the economy in the real world, I'm losing a lot of students," she said, "so performing in Second Life helps me keep food on the table."

She added: "Being a single mom and finding a way to support my family -- this has been a tremendous experience." iReport.com: Making virtual moolah

Most of the money comes in tips. During her recent hourlong performance, Buford made about $18 (L$ 4,680). Not a bad hourly rate, she said, but low for her typical Second Life gig.

Cylindrian has a booking agent in Second Life -- an avatar that wears a micro-miniskirt and boots that climb up to mid-thigh. In the real world, though, Buford has to arrange her own gigs.

Other musicians have made careers for themselves in Second Life.

Lawson, the blues singer, signed a record deal with Reality Entertainment last summer after his avatar was scouted in a Second Life concert. At first, the Nashville singer said it seemed too bizarre to be true.

"If you're a cartoon bluesman and some cartoon walks up to you and says, 'Hey, I'm from a record label and I want to give you a deal,' what's your first reaction gonna be? 'Yeah right, thanks buddy. Have a good night.' Who know who's behind an avatar walkin' up to ya, right? I actually blew off the label four or five times just thinking someone was screwin' with me," he said.

An album is set to be released under his avatar's name in a few months, he said. He barely has time to play real shows anymore because his Second Life schedule is so full.

He doesn't think Second Life will suck all real-world musicians in, though.

"The live concert experience is never going to change," he said.

Real connections

What Buford loves most about Second Life is what she also likes about the real world: its people. She says she has met many friends in Second Life. They hang out in both the real and virtual worlds.

Her latest mission is to merge the two. At real-world concerts, she has started setting up projection screens that let the audience see the parallel concert as it streams into Second Life.

Her marketing reinforces this duality. Buford has handouts showing the real her sitting back-to-back with her avatar. "Grace Buford is...Cylindrian Rutabaga in Second Life," the fliers say. Such a simple statement is necessary because some of her fans are just now figuring out she exists in both worlds.

Buford ends her recent morning concert with a cover of "Coin Operated Boy," a staccato piano song by The Dresden Dolls:

Coin operated boy
Sitting on the shelf he is just a toy
But I turn him on and he comes to life
Automatic joy

At the end of the song, as if to remind everyone that this is Second Life, not the real world, a thankful fan throws a virtual monkey onto the stage.

Vade

I hadn't realized this was a 2nd life concert Tusko. Kudos on working with something new under An Invisible Sun.

Did you video record the event by chance?

Just to add another upcoming twist...

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/01/hands-on-with-hololens-making-the-virtual-real/
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Majiken

The mind boggles- never heard of this before :o! Don't know what to think about it yet, guess I oughta go check it out soon.

Virtual? Reality? 1984 is already well behind us, I wonder what my kids and grandkids will be dealing with.....
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Tukso

Quote from: SuperNiCd on January 28, 2015, 03:50:09 AM
I like to think of myself as tech savvy, 21st century guy.  But you just kind of blew my mind, Tusko!

So this isn't a hobby for you.  You're a full-time, and apparently very hard-working musician at 600+ gigs a year?  And you get paid for your efforts in some sort of virtual currency which I presume can be converted back into real currency that can buy, um, material goods and services?

That is pretty fascinating indeed.  I'd like to hear more about what kind of gear you're using, and will try to catch one of your shows here soon when one works with my schedule.  It does sound like a very unforgiving environment in terms of performance perfection.

Do any virtual drunks ever spill virtual beer on your real pedal board?  :)

All the music on my Soundcloud are recorded from my live concerts in Second Life as I streamed in the virtual world.
ex: https://soundcloud.com/tuksookey/full-concert-dyna-moez-diner-dec-27-2014

I am contracted by venues to appear on a certain date for a fee with the potential to earn more through audience tips. The better I perform, the better the tips are. Plus some fans are super fans and want to support the artist whole-heartedly and tip BIG.

But it's not easy due to the internet aspect. You must hold an audiences attention because within 3 seconds of them arriving at the venue and if they don't feel engaged, they click on something else and leave or start reading Facebook posts lol. Also, the internet is international, so my schedule reflects that. As an example, if I perform for an Australian-centric, the concert will be around 1am California time... I am in Seattle.

This has been my full-time wage thing... but I have chosen to not be money oriented in my life-style, and still for the past 8 years all of my RL $ obligations are met (rent, food, utilities, WEED). Best of all, I have no boss and I make my own schedule to suit my pursuit of happiness on my terms.



Tukso

Quote from: Vade on January 28, 2015, 07:37:05 AM
I hadn't realized this was a 2nd life concert Tusko. Kudos on working with something new under An Invisible Sun.

Did you video record the event by chance?

Just to add another upcoming twist...

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/01/hands-on-with-hololens-making-the-virtual-real/

Some fans have, but I haven't. So here in these videos you will see a little of what the music experience is like in SL, but not that immediate social aspect of all the chats and im's:






Tukso

Quote from: Elantric on January 28, 2015, 07:29:26 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/04/07/second.life.singer/

Artists visit virtual Second Life for real-world cash
Highly embellished and was a promo article for that artist and meant to be highly embellished. This article was kinda like the PBS/SL For Dummies/AARP version of SL music world. The real scene is more like an RL entertainment business... the good the bad the ugly[/i]

Elantric


Tukso

Quote from: Majiken on January 28, 2015, 08:44:57 AM
The mind boggles- never heard of this before :o! Don't know what to think about it yet, guess I oughta go check it out soon.

Virtual? Reality? 1984 is already well behind us, I wonder what my kids and grandkids will be dealing with.....
@Majiken Bro, it gets better... I have even had a guest musician (http://www.reverbnation.com/sebastianmestre) on a few of my live concerts who was in S. America, while I was in Seattle. The process in the streaming community is called Dual Streaming ;)   :

fuzzfactory

all i can say is i have "been" to a couple of tukso's gigs and it rocks!!!

it sounds great streaming and it has a really good groovy positive vibe!


Tukso

Quote from: fuzzfactory on January 29, 2015, 01:10:11 AM
all i can say is i have "been" to a couple of tukso's gigs and it rocks!!!

it sounds great streaming and it has a really good groovy positive vibe!

wow.... thank u bro

Majiken

Power to you, Tukso! Nothing like living your dream and still covering the bills :-D
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Toby Krebs

I will have to share this with my oldest son.His buddies are pretty fixated on ways to finance cigarettes/weed and pizza with music.Me I have not had a "weed" budget for many years.It started to turn me into a softball in the end.I lost my drive and desire to be competitive so I quit.But hey if it stimulates your creative impulses go for it!

Tukso

Quote from: Toby Krebs on January 29, 2015, 07:41:10 AM
I will have to share this with my oldest son.His buddies are pretty fixated on ways to finance cigarettes/weed and pizza with music.Me I have not had a "weed" budget for many years.It started to turn me into a softball in the end.I lost my drive and desire to be competitive so I quit.But hey if it stimulates your creative impulses go for it!
Bro for me weed isn't a creativity booster, it's more of a bio-system regulator. It allows me to control my adrenalin flow and and not have anticipation, it gives my mind room to travel yet be focused. Also, I use very strong SATIVA strains for my performances, so no couch lock or "softball" affectations. The creativity is either there or not, and weed does nothing to change that. It's what you bring to the table already, way before you smoke weed, if your in chaos before you smoke, you will only achieve chaos in a stoned state. Peace bro~

Vade

Quote from: Tukso on January 28, 2015, 04:47:28 PM
Some fans have, but I haven't. So here in these videos you will see a little of what the music experience is like in SL, but not that immediate social aspect of all the chats and im's:

Thanks for the links Tukso. It looks like a lot of fun and I think it's great that you figured out a way to make play pay. It'll be interesting to see how virtual realities like this work out when integrated with Occulus Rift and the HoloLens I linked above. See you on the HoloDeck!
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

Back in 2008, I purchased a Gibson DarkFire, and the "hired evangelist" on the Gibson Forums was very big on Second Life as a Live performance venue.

But then the economic crash of 2008 resulted in major cutbacks at Gibson in 2009 and the  "hired evangelist" was let go - with the general consensus:

"We have more important issues today battling Real Life economic problems!"


But this might hold the answer for older musicians to continue working, with better terms and lower overhead, work at home and no Drunk Driving tickets  / accidents coming home from the gig, etc.

supernicd

QuoteBut this might hold the answer for older musicians to continue working, with better terms and lower overhead, work at home and no Drunk Driving tickets  / accidents coming home from the gig, etc.

I agree - pretty neat idea.  I like that, especially for original artists, you can expand your potential fan base well beyond your local town to a global audience if you don't want to tour. 

QuoteBut it's not easy due to the internet aspect. You must hold an audiences attention because within 3 seconds of them arriving at the venue and if they don't feel engaged, they click on something else and leave or start reading Facebook posts lol.

I think this is true in real life too - people will tune out and engage in other conversations, etc. if you don't capture their attention.  The difference is they may stay at the real life venue, and you may get one or more second chances.  Thanks for sharing your experiences, Tusko, and continue posting your show schedule from time to time, eh?  I'll try to set up a SecondLife account and check out your show sometime.  Perhaps my avatar will be a gorgeous, slender, bikini-clad woman, so that I don't stick out too much in the virtual crowd. ;)

One other question - do you play to a backing track, or do you have other musicians in the room with you - e.g. are you mixing multiple instruments in real-time for a v-show?
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Vade

QuoteBut this might hold the answer for older musicians to continue working, with better terms and lower overhead, work at home and no Drunk Driving tickets  / accidents coming home from the gig, etc.

It might have effects on age bias in other ways as well. I've no hard data on this, but I have this notion that it's much easier to become a successful musician if you connect with your age cohort while young. There are lots of successful young bands playing to young audiences but the musicians have very little skill compared to seasoned veterans. Hard to say what effect a virtual world might have if my surmise is correct.

I'm with SuperNiCd as regards his comments and questions as well.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Elantric

Here is one method to continue work as an Older musician
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Straitjackets



But the audience sees less sweat when you have an Avatar  -

but myself  I  feel more "engaged' watching the Real deal here:


Vade

I think I'd need more than a mask. A whole body prosthetic perhaps?
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

supernicd

QuoteI've no hard data on this, but I have this notion that it's much easier to become a successful musician if you connect with your age cohort while young.

I have no idea whether this is true or not, but I once heard that Chris Isaak was the oldest man to "make it big" in the pop/rock scene, at age 28. :)

Regardless of whether that's accurate, you definitely don't see many labels promoting the debut singles of folks beyond the age of 30.  I don't know whether that's because youth is a requirement for the magic commercial success formula, or people generally lose ambition to go for the "big time" after a certain age.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

Quote
I think I'd need more than a mask. A whole body prosthetic perhaps?