GP-10 vs Kemper, who would have thought!!!!!

Started by Panthersn, December 06, 2014, 08:16:34 PM

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Panthersn

Well guys I'm dumbfounded, shocked & impressed all at the same time.  I picked up my GP-10 three weeks ago and bought some custom patches.  Today I received my Kemper Rackmount unit.  I have spent the last 5 hours going thru many of its presets and also downloading user rigs from the Kemper forum, to be honest I believe the tones I'm getting from the GP-10 are just as good if not better.  One tone in particular, the Soldano.  On the GP-10 it is set up as a lead patch, GK-3 is set to TE Front, FX set to Natural OD with delay and chorus.  I can't find one on the Kemper that sounds as good!!!

This unit is a keeper for sure!!!!!  ;) ;) ;)

vablows


HCarlH

I would not judge the Kemper by the horrible user rigs in that forum. The ONLY profiles I have on mine are all paid profiles and they smoke anything that came with the unit.
GR-55 (or) Fishman TP + Kemper Profiling Rack -->> 
QSC K10 -->> FOH
Fender Squier Stratocaster Bullet (w/GK3), Ibanez AM93 (w/FTP pickup),  Stratocaster (w/FTP pickup)

Telecaster, Charvel SoCal ProMod, Gibson Les Paul, PV Wolfgang,

thebrushwithin

Not to put down the GP10, but the Kemper is way ahead on the amp side, to my ears. Buy one of Michael Britt's packs, as an example, and then compare. Everyone's ears are different, but for me, it's not very close, although I use the GP10's guitar models to go into the Kemper, and enjoy that combo.
I have always enjoyed Roland's Soldano model, though, even on the older VG units. If you want to really have some sonic fun, run them in parallel!!!

Elantric

#4
Believe it or not,  but I'm also in the camp who is impressed with the GP-10 and think it holds its own with its smooth Cab sims. The GP-10 straight to computer or straight to PA easily tops anything I get from POD HD500X. 

Its all about the updated COSM DSP Amp modeling in the GP-10 of what happens after the Preamp Models: the updated COSM Power Amp with their new "T.Comp" parameter Cab Sims and a mic on Speaker.

Yesterday I upgraded to Pro tools 11, and dragged out my dusty Eleven Rack (talk about a confusing UI, never could find the  tremolo effect. ) but who cares, because there wasn't a patch worth recording , due to the rice crispy grainy junk Cab modelling on the Eleven Rack. Even the 2004 1st release POD X2 with its notorious Fizz, or any Vox ToneLab or Fender Mustang amp sounds miles ahead of sound from the Eleven Rack.
I suggest any Avid Eleven Rack owners to take the Boss GP-10 Challenge :).

But I'll keep the Eleven Rack just as a Pro tools interface for its Analog Line In, AES EBU I/O and Pro tools recovery. When things go wonky with Protools 11/12  - when it cant even launch and delivers a cryptic error message, I find I need to "clear it's throat" so to speak by shutting down Swap out my audio interface dujour, and hookup the Eleven Rack to get rolling again.

Anyway, coming from an Eleven Rack , the Boss GP-10 with its factory patches (no less!) sounds miles ahead and I can nail guitar tones from the past 60 years of electric guitar with just my Godin XTSA or JTV-69 with GK-3 and the GP-10.

True,  the Kemper adds more polish, but in the right hands ears and experience,  most producers would be hard pressed to know which basic guitar track was Kemper and which track was GP-10.


Spider

It is very interesting. Steve did you use 11R with Expansion Pack? Maybe it is time to sell 11R... and use GP-10 with some fx between guitar and GP.

Elantric

#6
My Eleven Rack is 2012 FW 2.00  with all the expansion. It's useless for guitar. No amount of tweaking overcomes how bad it sounds in my ATH-M50 headphones.
Explains why folks use it with an Atomic Cab.

I got it on sale  for the free Protools 9 back in 2012

QuoteMaybe it is time to sell 11R...

I hardly sell anything - since its typical to only recover less than 50% of the price I paid

and  -  I'll keep the Eleven Rack just as a Pro tools interface for its Analog Line In, AES EBU I/O and Pro tools recovery. When things go wonky with Protools 11/12  - when it cant even launch and delivers a cryptic error message, I find I need to "clear it's throat" so to speak by shutting down Swap out my audio interface dujour, and temporarily re-hookup the Eleven Rack to get ProTools rolling again.

Majiken

Hi, looked around and I see no thread on the Fractal Axe-fx, especially vs. the Kemper- if it is somewhere can one point me to it? Haven't heard either, but I admit to enjoying tweaking to find sounds I like vs. trying to perfectly copy an existing sound (got tired in the 80's of having to turn my tube amp down so far it lost the mojo, been playing direct to PA since the 90's). Seems the Kemper is not intended to build sounds from the ground up, or?
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Elantric

#8
Axe-FX II vs Kemper: Fractal's Comments
www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5933.msg42588#msg42588

and VG-99 vs AXE-FX
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2476.0

The Kemper is a mixed affair.  It can sound the best, but the sluggish release of the Kemper Pedal board (due 2015 NAMM), no USB Audio interface,  no Editor, on board controls that change , or still in development, or buttons that do not work with each firmware release , and never a User Manual that actually reflects the current features in the current firmware. Each time I touch my KPA  Its like being afflicted with constant alzheimhers . If you are addicted to constant change with resulting lack of productivity, the KPA delivers that experience.
Im considering selling mine as I had far greater expectations from the same man who created the Access Virus
www.virus.info/home
And to my ears bulk of the tones on the KPA Patch exchange are crap and getting worse, delivering a maze of amateur social network  ,  "Look at me I have posted 1000 patches, " like this was some skill like  being the high score on a pinball arcade game.

vablows

But Michael Britt's rig packs and you will never sell the Kemper!

whippinpost91850

Quote from: thebrushwithin on December 06, 2014, 11:20:48 PM
Not to put down the GP10, but the Kemper is way ahead on the amp side, to my ears. Buy one of Michael Britt's packs, as an example, and then compare. Everyone's ears are different, but for me, it's not very close, although I use the GP10's guitar models to go into the Kemper, and enjoy that combo.
I have always enjoyed Roland's Soldano model, though, even on the older VG units. If you want to really have some sonic fun, run them in parallel!!!
Yes to this as well ;D

whippinpost91850

Quote from: Elantric on December 07, 2014, 09:28:34 AM
My Eleven Rack is 2012 FW 2.00  with all the expansion. It's useless for guitar. No amount of tweaking overcomes how bad it sounds in my ATH-M50 headphones.
Explains why folks use it with an Atomic Cab.

I got it on sale  for the free Protools 9
Same here I bought it on sale as well . I tried to use it live ,but it just didn't cut it. Been using Kemper  with my GR55 live, for 2 years and love it. Just adding GP10 mostly for the guitar modeling and also to run it in parrallell with KPA on some tunes

Bill Ruppert

"I touch my KPA  Its like being afflicted with constant alzheimhers"
Who ever wrote this is a complete ass****!



Quote from: Elantric on December 07, 2014, 10:08:30 AM
Axe-FX II vs Kemper: Fractal's Comments
www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5933.msg42588#msg42588

The Kemper is a mixed affair.  It can sound the best, but the sluggish release of the Kemper Pedal board (due 2015 NAMM), no USB Audio interface,  no Editor, on board controls that change , or still in development, or buttons that do not work with each firmware release , and never a User Manual that actually reflects the current features in the current firmware. Each time I touch my KPA  Its like being afflicted with constant alzheimhers . If you are addicted to constant change with resulting lack of productivity, the KPA delivers that experience.
Im considering selling mine as I had far greater expectations from the same man who created the Access Virus
www.virus.info/home
And to my ears bulk of the tones on the KPA Patch exchange are crap and getting worse, delivering a maze of amateur social network  ,  "Look at me I have posted 1000 patches, " like this was some skill like  being the high score on a pinball arcade game.

Tonemasterus

Funny, I think the kemper is one of the easiest things to edit without the manual.  Once you understand the navigation.  A lot easier than some of the others!  In my opinion!  I think the key to getting. Great sound out of the kemper have to do with dialing in the input(clean and distortion sense) parameters.  That has gotten all easier on the current firmware though!

Dave

Ps I agree with the comment about the M Britt profiles! 

DeRigueur

Quote from: Elantric on December 07, 2014, 05:22:48 AM
Its all about the DSP modeling of what happens after the Preamp Models: Cab Sims and a mic on Speaker.

So, what cab/mic settings do you use?
Fender GC-1 -- Boss SY-1000 -- Alto TS112A

Elantric

#15
just whatever the factory patch has - no trick - to fuss

GP-10 Output Mode set to "Line/Phones"

GP-10 is the best sounding Roland / Boss unit I own

Using GP-10,  I land on great tones with fewer battles compared to other processors ( worst experience for me is Avid Eleven Rack [dreadful cab sims] , Line-6 HD500[dreadful editing, and hard to read LCD)
QuoteWho ever wrote this is a complete ass****!
thats me  - I cant wrap my brain on the Kemper -due to the constant firmware changes, and illegible LCD display 

Edit:  Read  Kemper Dim LCD Solution
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13485.0
QuoteMy "Dim" KPA WAS set as:

Contrast: 100

Brightness: 6.3

I could never read the LCD during STOMP FX creation.


I changed these to :

Contrast: 133

Brightness: 8.3


Now for the first time ever I finally can read "Empty" on the KPA's LCD when setting up a new STOMP  - its never been readable until now


Maybe after I install the latest firmware things will get more work - able

But this is from a guy who only gets a few hours each month to actually use my Kemper.

I tracked guitars in the studio with my Kemper in November 2014 -  it worked great because the Producer didn''t want any effects. just basic guitar amp tone into the board  - everyone was happy. Same team would never let me connect the Boss GP-10 - just because it said "Boss" on it  - and they projected it would sound like a Boss ME-25  - which is the biggest hurdle for the GP-10 among the Professionals I show it too.

What I'm talking about is usability in a small form factor that is gig-able and reliable.

At $2K for KPA + $300 for decent audio Interface+ $400 for a MIDi pedal board ( $2,700) and have to suffer the 35-45 seconds on every power on,  - Glowing knobs that actually blind and make it harder to read the text label for the control on the printed sheet metal, LCD Display that dims dark when attempting to edit Stompboxes   - I suppose I need to spend a solid week with it and use it 40 hours a week as you do Bill- 

vs $350 for GP-10 and works for my needs right out of the box   

 

Majiken

Very interesting discussion, and I feel my GAS rising fast for the GP-10 :o. Are the 12-strings & acoustics really better than on the GR-55?
And I'm still wondering about the lack of opinion on the Axe-Fx in this forum, here in Germany it seems to be like the same religious battles between Mercedes and BMW   :P
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Elantric

#17
QuoteAnd I'm still wondering about the lack of opinion on the Axe-Fx in this forum, here in Germany it seems to be like the same religious battles between Mercedes and BMW 

Lack of Axe-FX info here is mostly an issue of rarity  - There are actually Dealers who have KPA in stock to test before you buy ( or offer a 30 day return ) and all the regular online music stores sell KPA - while AxeFX is only available sold Direct.

If you dont know anyone who owns a Axe-FX  who will let you try one before you buy, you are out of luck

+ at $3.2K for a AxeFX+ Pedal Controller  - If I had that type money to spend, Id be spending most days on Horseback and playing polo, while Kato polishes my Ferrari 



Everyone has a different expectation, needs, budget, and ears.   

But through friend I know  - those with AXE-FX and a Macbook who are full time musicians on tour are very productive with AXE-FX - its a smaller form factor  to carry it all on the road. He can sort his setlist on the tour bus and spend less time during sound check- as he has stored EQ correction curves for each room his band plays

Bill Ruppert

I was referring to the idiots choice of words.
Had to be a moron.



Quote from: Elantric on December 07, 2014, 11:28:38 AM
just whatever the factory patch has - no trick - to fuss

GP-10 is the best sounding Roland / Boss unit I own

I land on great tones withe fewer battles thats me  - I cant wrap my brain on the Kemper

Myabe after I install the latest firmware things will get more work - able

But this from a guy who only gets a few hours each month to actually use the Kemper 

I tracked in the studio with Kemper in November it works great because they didn''t want any effects. just basic guitar amp tone into the board  - everyone was happy.

What I'm talking about is usability in a small form factor that is gig-able and reliable.

At $2K for KPA + $300 for decent audio Interface+ $400 for a MIDi pedal board and have to suffer to 35 seconds on every power on,  - Glowing knobs that actually make it harder to read the text label for the control on the printed sheet metal,  - I suppose I need to spend a solid week with it and use it 40 hours a week as you do Bill- 

vs $350 for GP-10 and works for my needs right out of the box   



Elantric

#19
QuoteI was referring to the idiots choice of words.
Had to be a moron.

confirmed!

I was referring to the Kemper User Interface  - which remains daunting without a GUI Editor
As I get older I just need point and shoot controls. no sub folders 

which makes this 10 year old Vox ToneLab SE remain very appealing to me
Just need to wedge felt under all knobs so they dont move on a vibrating stage


+



Panthersn

Quote from: vablows on December 06, 2014, 09:50:40 PM
What are you listening to these through?

Main out - Alesis Studio 12R - Yamaha SPX1000 (bypassed) - Pioneer power amp - Rave studio monitors.

Elantric

QuoteWhat are you listening to these through?

GP-10 Out feeding a Pair of these
Alesis Alpha 112


Panthersn

#22
Quote from: Elantric on December 07, 2014, 11:28:38 AM
just whatever the factory patch has - no trick - to fuss

GP-10 is the best sounding Roland / Boss unit I own

I land on great tones withe fewer battles thats me  - I cant wrap my brain on the Kemper

Myabe after I install the latest firmware things will get more work - able

But this from a guy who only gets a few hours each month to actually use the Kemper 

I tracked in the studio with Kemper in November it works great because they didn''t want any effects. just basic guitar amp tone into the board  - everyone was happy.

What I'm talking about is usability in a small form factor that is gig-able and reliable.

At $2K for KPA + $300 for decent audio Interface+ $400 for a MIDi pedal board and have to suffer to 35 seconds on every power on,  - Glowing knobs that actually make it harder to read the text label for the control on the printed sheet metal,  - I suppose I need to spend a solid week with it and use it 40 hours a week as you do Bill- 

vs $350 for GP-10 and works for my needs right out of the box   



Couldn't agree more with the GP-10, I sold my GR-55 after receiving the 10.   I found the GR-55 synth patches fun to mess around with but only used them live once.  The deciding factor was the ability to plug in any guitar and use the great COSM models.

I'm going to take the advice and order a rig pack for the KPA and see what happens.

On a side note I wish Roland would listen to guitar players when they design their boards.  The COSM engineering and effects are great but the physical board and lack of switches is the low point.  Here would be my design if I was putting together the next "do it all processor" for Roland (they already have everything to make it happen):

The display from the GR-55

COSM Modeling from the GT-100

Synth patches from the 99

FC-300 chassis (dual expression peds & 2 rows of switches. TC electronic style with LEDs)

XLR Main outs with Ground lift

Effect return

MIDI in & out

GK2/3 input

1/4 Guitar input


Most of all, don't ABANDON the product after it is released!!  Firmware updates and the occasional expansion rigs & effects.


I know it will never happen but who knows.

Majiken

Add a good looper, USB stick thing like the GR-55, aux in with an engine capable of handling updates for the next 10 years, and I'd be set for life  ;D
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

Elantric

#24
QuoteFC-300 chassis (dual expression peds & 2 rows of switches. TC electronic style with LEDs)

For me the FC300 is a compromise and failure - I hate the Dual purpose Foot Switches and need to hit "TWO Bank up/down Footswitches at Once" to change the "MODE" and get into stompbox mode - for me with my FC300 this maneuver yields  only a 60% chance of repeatable results   




Meanwhile, one of my favorite user interface for a Foot Switch layout is the Line-6  HD500X

Bottom row patch select - upper row stomp FX

Bank up down over on the left - and support for Dual Expression Pedals 



My dream rig would be a HD500X  with GP-10 COSM AMP Modeling

A re-assignable Stereo FX Loop I can place anywhere (like the Eleven Rack)

and Antares ATG-1 Guitar Modeling ( 6 weeks away)
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7286.msg95111;topicseen#msg95111


and a GUI Editor for patch building  / FX routing


   

Today with unlimited funds  - If i had to go on the road for a tour in 2015 I'd  pre-order the Antares ATG-1 or have a few guitars that I could install the Antares Guitar Modeling DSP - and control it all with an Ipad
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7286.0





use an AXE-FX with its Ipad Editor