Ice Blue - an arpeggiator for Hexaphonic VGuitar processors

Started by supernicd, February 02, 2014, 02:39:45 PM

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vanceg

And ME!  Sorry, I didn't name this one more obviously back in 2009 when I posted. It's called "fake arpeggiator"  ;-) 

Granted, what it's doing is just turning each STRING on and off in some order.... so if you use the Freeze effect, or if you have a Moog guitar and are doing polyphonic sustain, it works nicely.  Weird effect. Not for everyone.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1411.0

Quote from: aliensporebomb on February 21, 2014, 10:32:32 AM
We have at least two people doing faux arpeggiators for the VG-99 via programming:

Me:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=8607.0

Smash:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10132.0

Check it out!

supernicd

#26
Ice Blue Alpha 2
New Version 2014-11-30
+ VG-99 Support
+ Sample VG-99 patch
+ Bypass Button
+ Android Support?

See original post for latest download.

Notes
This version is working on the VG-99, and includes a sample patch.  GR-300 on Chain A that can be arpeggiated, and a normal electric & amp model on chain B that is not arp'ed.  I won't say it's a lovely, refined patch, but it has the assigns set up right and you can modify the sounds as needed.  Actually, I would love to hear what you come up with. :)  Assigns 1-7 are used.  Assign 7 is for the Octave function and it may have to change if you don't use the GR-300 model, as it's using CC 26 to control its Pitch SW (A or OFF).

Make sure Guitar to MIDI is on, and that you're in Mono mode starting channel 1.  As with the GR-55, make sure Lemur has MIDI 1 Targets set to your VG-99, however you connect it.

Bypass button works with touch (of course) and is also set up to respond to CC #27.  I tried mapping this to FC-300 CTRL 1 in the Guitar to MIDI settings, and this worked, but the arp function only works when CTRL 1 is held down.  Alternatively, map to FC-300 EXP 1, and when the pedal is toe down it turns on, heel down, it turns off.  This seems to be the way to go (for me) but others might appreciate the momentary type behavior on CTRL 1.  Bypass button should work on the GR-55 as well.

Then finally, Lemur is now available for Android devices, though it's only certified on certain models.  I haven't had a chance to test Ice Blue on Android, and I'm not sure when I will as I don't have the currently supported Nexus 7, but if anyone's feeling lucky:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.liine.lemurapp


Will try to post a video and/or sound demo later.


Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

supernicd

Well, I had a bit more time today, so here is a demo video, and yet another new version!  Alpha 3 has one more VG-99 patch (the one used in the demo), and also has a direction control (up/down ARP).  A new iPhone version is also included - same features, smaller size.  See original post for updated version.  Enjoy, and appreciate any feedback if you try it out.

Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

supernicd

#28
It's opinion time!  If you have one to offer. :)

Thanks to some help from Elantric and Gumtown, I've been having some success switching Ice Blue from using MIDI CC commands to System Exclusive (SysEx) commands.  This means some very good things!  The biggest is that setting up a special patch with a bunch of specific control assigns wouldn't be necessary anymore.  It would work right out of the gate with any factory or user patch, no special patch or set up required.

It seems to come with some downsides though.  I've only tested on the VG-99, and when the module is running, the VG-99 displays a "System Exclusive Message Receiving..." message.  You've probably seen this when importing a patch you download from the forum.


I believe this is the VG-99's way of saying "I'm very busy right now."  Because, you can no longer adjust a number of things.  If you had an expression controller (e.g. ribbon, D-Beam, FC-300 expression pedal) already set up in your patch, those seem to continue working.  However, the CTRL buttons on the 99 itself don't work, nor can you really do anything to edit your patch while the arp is running.

So, to SysEx, or not to SysEx?  I'm leaning toward that the pros outweigh the cons. I'm also not sure how the GR-55 and even GP-10 might react to this.

For some additional context...

Where am I going with this thing now?  I don't have a particular road map.  And in fact I'm not a big arpeggiator user.  I have an inquisitive nature and like to try pushing my electronics to the limit.  Kind of like if you buy a Porsche, you're going to want to see how fast you can make it go sometimes. 

This started off as pure curiosity.  However, I'm starting to think there are potentially a lot of "hidden effects" in these VGuitar units that can only be unlocked with a sophisticated, scriptable controller like Lemur.  Just running this against some of the factory presets is yielding some pretty neat results.  I have some other ideas to explore besides the arpeggiator, too.  Some may work, who knows.  Best case, and time permitting, maybe this turns into a pretty neat bolt-on for V-Guitar units to add some capabilities and FX that were always sort of there in the hardware but previously not accessible.  Whatever it becomes, my plan is to continue posting it here so that others can use it or even fork it.

Anyway, for those who have interest in this project, just wonder what you think.  SysEx good?
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

The "Sysex" splash screen also exists on GR-55 and GP-10  - All Roland  / Boss units will disable many controls during MIDI Sysex communication sequences - which might bother many users.

Trivia  - Speaking as an old timer the original Roland VG-8 had a nice third party Editor
Emagic SoundDiver


http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may01/articles/emagicsounddriver.htm

https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/sounddiver-users/conversations/topics/330




This used lots of Sysex communication  - but if there was a buffer over run (due to tweaking too many controls at once)  - it would actually "brick" the Roland VG-8's EEPROM   - and require sending the VG-8 to Roland Service for a Motherboard replacement !

Todays Roland VG/GR/GP gear is more robust, but know MIDi Sysex errors have been known to create a system "crash"  - that may require recycling the power  on/ off to clear the bad data.

supernicd

Thanks for the info and input!  Very interesting.  Frankly, the splash screen / disabling of controls bothers me a bit.  However, eliminating the need to do a fairly complicated special patch set up is making it a tough call, which is why I'm throwing the question out there.  I haven't tested enough to know if this would ever send so much data as to confuse the unit and require a reboot, but I'm sure I'll be playing with it more.

Do you think the danger of "bricking" units by throwing excessive SysEx at it is a non-issue with hardware like the VG-99 and later models?  I know the wrong combination of codes could probably do it since this is how the system OS is updated.  But assuming some care is taken to send SysEx only to the temporary user patch area of memory, is any danger just in the form of a buffer overrun / needing a system restart?
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

QuoteDo you think the danger of "bricking" units by throwing excessive SysEx at it is a non-issue with hardware like the VG-99 and later models? 

Correct - I do think its a non-issue for 2007 VG-99

borderline for 2000 VG-88

and high risk for 1995 VG-8 / VG-8EX

mbenigni

I agree - the pros outweigh the cons IMO.

FWIW I've never seen the Receiving SysEx splash on GR55, though I rarely send more than 3 or 4 sequential message per event.

Regardless, I think having the VG-99 UI inaccessible while arpeggiating is a small sacrifice to avoid having to set up Assigns for every patch in advance.  When I was done with my touchOSC project for GR55, I was left with a handful of double-wide parameters that weren't supported via SysEx, and required Assigns to function properly.  One of them was patch level - very bread & butter stuff - and I can tell you it drives me crazy when I realize that I'm working with a patch that doesn't have that Assign set up.  (You can make this less painful by using a template patch to start with, but every now and again you're bound to forget.)  Besides which, there are only a finite number of assigns available; not sure how many Ice Blue was using, but you don't want to hog them!

Assuming it doesn't actually make the VG99 unstable, and the UI becomes fully functional when Ice Blue is paused... go SysEx!

supernicd

QuoteBesides which, there are only a finite number of assigns available; not sure how many Ice Blue was using, but you don't want to hog them!

You make a really good point there that I failed to mention.  My intent was to have this work with the 99, the 55, and also possibly the GP-10 (though I do not have one of those to test with).  At this point Ice Blue is using 8 assigns if you want to use the octave feature and remote control the bypass function, and that number will probably grow as more goodies are added.  The GR-55 only has 8 assigns, and I think the GP-10 does too.  The VG-99 has more, but the 55 and 10 are already out!!  That's a compelling case for SysEx!
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

supernicd

I had a pretty rich weekend of feature development for Ice Blue.  The SysEx approach is working wonderfully.  I have it working on both the VG-99 and the GR-55 - use with any patch, no special assigns required.  FWIW, the GR-55 handles the SysEx messages without a hitch.  It does not pop up the splash screen or lock the UI controls.  The VG-99 does sometimes, and sometimes not, but returns to normal operation with the ARP paused, so it's not really a problem.

Tons of new features added as well, so this isn't really stritcly an arpeggiator anymore.  I guess it's its own VG expander - it's a blast to play with.  Hope to post a new version soon.  All the stuff in the screen shot is working  But at this point I think it needs a walk thru video, and perhaps even a short manual.

Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

mbenigni


supernicd

Thanks for the encouragement, Marc! I'm really starting to think I need to force myself to stop adding things to this template at this point.  Every time I think I'm done, the next idea pops into my head and I have to go build it.  I decided it needed quick access to the devices' mixer controls, and way to control the preset sequencer length.  This Lemur + SysEx can be hazardous to a person's free time.  :)  My saving grace might be that I'm pretty much out of room without turning it into a multi-page template, and if I go there, I know I'm doomed to fill it...

Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

mbenigni

QuoteMarc! I'm really starting to think I need to force myself to stop adding things to this template at this point.  Every time I think I'm done, the next idea pops into my head and I have to go build it.

That's not necessarily a bad thing :) but scope management is important.  I was already bored with the sound of my GR55 before I stopped fiddling with ways to program/control it.  Now it's my most user-friendly rig, except I don't use it.   ::)

I say keep going at it, but allow for a fixed number of hours per week - and use the rest to play guitar!

P.S.  Yes - adding that second page will be like opening Pandora's Box LOL.

imerkat

Was this Blue Ice Alpha 2 uploaded here?
Is there a way of getting an Arpeggiator with something like a Midi Sequencer of a sort? Like the Molten Devices one for the Whammy

Elantric

I understand Ice Blue - an arpeggiator for Hexaphonic VGuitar processors is Lemuur Template
https://liine.net/en/community/user-library/



Elantric

QuoteIs there a way of getting an Arpeggiator with something like a Midi Sequencer of a sort?

There is an  Arpeggiator built into Apple Logic-X

details here:

https://www.residentadvisor.net/features/2474

supernicd

It has been a long time since I've looked at this. I will check if I have a more recent build than what I last uploaded here. May be a few days before I can get to it.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

domnils

Hello to you
First of all, please excuse me for my language mistakes; I am French, and do not speak your language; so I use "Google translation" to help me.
Here is my question: Would it be possible to download your Template below?
I downloaded "the ice blues arpegiator for the GR55", but if I could have this one which seems to me more complete, it would have been perfect.
In advance, thank you for your answer.
Dominica

admin

Quote from: domnils on June 05, 2018, 05:27:33 AM
Hello to you
First of all, please excuse me for my language mistakes; I am French, and do not speak your language; so I use "Google translation" to help me.
Here is my question: Would it be possible to download your Template below?
I downloaded "the ice blues arpegiator for the GR55", but if I could have this one which seems to me more complete, it would have been perfect.
In advance, thank you for your answer.
Dominica

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10507.0;attach=10639