SY-300 - OSC Settings

Started by BlakeWilder, September 09, 2015, 05:28:19 AM

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BlakeWilder

Hi!

I got the SY 300 since a few days now and didn´t have much time to dive deeply into it.
I tried also the Boss Editor and with it came one BIG question:

How do you manage to switch the OSCs on and off (especially in your preset)? I can´t figure it out myself so far...
I´ve seen this happening in several other presets with other functions ghostly turned on and off.

I would be so glad if someone told me :)

With regards,

Blake

Rhcole

In Tone Studio there are on and off buttons you click. On the SY-300 itself you turn a knob.
Check the manual and parameter guide.

LightninRick

Blake - glad you like the patch. To assign the OSC-1, 2, or 3 on off functions to a foot switch, as I did in this patch, I used the Boss Tone Studio for SY-300, which is a GUI (graphical user interface) for the SY-300. When you go into that, and click on any one of the oscilators, you will get a display with all three oscilators. At the top of that there are buttons for Wave / Pitch, Filter, LFO, ... and CTL - Click on CTL and you will get choice for CTL1 - 5, Wave, Midi. Click on the CTL for the footswitch that you want to assign a function to. Then you can assign up to six functions to that switch. You have to turn the assignment on and then choose Preset or Manual - Preset gives a short list of choices, including OSCx on / off, FXx on / off and so on. Manual gives many more choices. That's pretty much it.

I haven't found a way to assign them using just the SY-300 itself, but you can go into the settings for a patch on that, and adjust parameters, such as turning an oscillator on or off.

Hope this helps!

BlakeWilder

Hey guys!

Thank you very much so far!
But I guess I didn´t describe my problem properly (I was in a hurry yesterday), so I´ll try it again:
I only refer to the things I see in the software - not on the SY 300 itself!

When I start the Boss editor and load your preset I can see OSC 1 flashing, the "fine" knob of OSC 3 constantly alters between +14 and -3. Also the big fader on the far right side seems to be linked to the aforementioned fine knob it moves constantly as well. And they all do it on their own. I found out that they are linked to the main tempo - when I speed it up, lights begin to flash faster and vice versa...

I hope you can explain to me how this works - it would be quite important for me because I intend to recreate some presets from my trusty GR 55 ;)

Thanks :)

Greetz,

Blake

gumtown

#4
Most likely what you see moving is due to the 'Assigns', if an assign is set to use the 'wave Pedal' (an LFO type slow oscillating control) and it is set to control a parameter, the Tone Studio editor reads the constant parameter changes from the SY-300 which the Assign is attached to.
If you see two parameters changing, then two assigns are most likely being used.

The Assigns are a powerful feature of Roland/Boss devices, allowing you to program real-time control from a footswitch or an Expression pedal to any SY-300 adjustable parameter.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

LightninRick

Hey Blake

I have the Wave set to make changes to OSC3 Filter Cutoff and Pitch. Not sure why OSC1 would flash, it looks like something is whacked in setting for the first wave assignment, because the Target Category is blank and the Target says FX3 Delay Time, and it doesn't seem to be doing anything there.

Rick

BlakeWilder

Hi again!

Finally I found the solution (with your help!) - the WAVE-tab was the right suggestion. Everything rocks from this tab - even OSC 1 and its strange on/off-switching is no mystery anymore :)

That´s too cool - now I can build my presets the way I want!
Thank you very very much :)

Greetz,

Blake

LightninRick

I hope you will share some with us! Have fun!

BlakeWilder

Once I fully understand that little machine - I will :)

Greetz,

Blake

BlakeWilder

Hi guys!

Today I was able to dive into the machine even more. And there seems to be a HUGE drawback: where are the ADSR envelopes???
Didn´t I just find them yet or did they leave them out??? And if so: why haven´t they been implemeted??

Greetz,

Blake

Elantric

Compared to a traditional Analog Synth controls, the SY-300 has many omissions 

Start by reading the SY-300 FAQ
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=14600.0


and SY-300 User Reviews
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15445.0

LightninRick

You can do ADSR controlling from your guitar, like palm muting, volume swells, etc. But, yeah , it would be nice to have true ADSR available.

szilard

Lack of ADSRs is a con in my opinion. For the amp, even what they offer doesn't work very well for a slow rise. That may be a trade off of using regular pickups rather than hex pups. I've been driving the SY-300 from a VG-99 so that's not a problem for me.

chrish

#13
I think that it is important to realize that this is a guitar synth and that the guitar string (and technique) creates it's own envelope and that is a big plus compared to just pressing button (key) and relaying on such things as programing and how forcefully the button is pressed or held, etc. We get to influence  the sound by using string bend, vibrato, palm mutes, harmonics, note slides, picks, fingers, finger nails, bottle slides, etc. In a sense, we are an added LFO that can modulate the sound by feel and emotion. Also as mentioned  in other threads, the sy-300, relies on effects to affect how the sound is further shaped. A guitarist can also add effects like compression or even a vg-8 hrm patch before the signal is input into the sy-300 to shape and color the sound. Or use a guitar that has more or less sustain. My godin nylon string mutiac guitar creates a diffent sound from the same sy300 patch than my ibanez 8 string electric guitar (which sustains for a long time and triggers sympathic string vibrations). That is the beauty of this guitar synth. The possibilities are endless.

Rhcole

I can compensate for the lack of ADSR's by a combination of the Amp envelope and inserting a Slo Gear when needed. I can cover most of what I want, including plucked sounds and delayed attacks reasonably well.

On the other hand, I do wonder why Roland left ADSRs or at least ARs out.They have strange agendas sometimes, such as inserting pitch envelopes in that are mostly for special effects and leaving bread and butter envelopes out.

It remains the best synth pedal on the market for regular pickups, though.

Bill Ruppert

I can compensate for the lack of ADSR's by a combination of the Amp envelope and inserting a Slo Gear when needed. I can cover most of what I want, including plucked sounds and delayed attacks reasonably well.

This is dead on!!
The SY-300 is more of a possessor. Its not a traditional synth or the weird tracking of the synth section with in the GP-10.

Embrace it, use it like you would an effect and make music that is organic AND one that is directly connected to your guitar string.
You need an ADSR? Use the slow gear as Rhcole said or use an expression pedal that can change direction instantly at the whims of your creativity.
Keyboard players would give their eye teeth to have the actual vibrating note under their finger tips.
We have have that!
Embrace it.




Quote from: Rhcole on September 13, 2015, 05:26:33 PM
I can compensate for the lack of ADSR's by a combination of the Amp envelope and inserting a Slo Gear when needed. I can cover most of what I want, including plucked sounds and delayed attacks reasonably well.

On the other hand, I do wonder why Roland left ADSRs or at least ARs out.They have strange agendas sometimes, such as inserting pitch envelopes in that are mostly for special effects and leaving bread and butter envelopes out.

It remains the best synth pedal on the market for regular pickups, though.

BlakeWilder

Hi!

I tried to get some "fade in pad sounds" with the Slow Gear effect, problem is that after some time the effect tries to retrigger and begins to stutter - so I tried to compensate this with a compressor (right before the SL, both after the OSC mixer) which holds up the guitar´s sustain a little longer. Works great but I have to sacrifice two FX slots for this...so ADSR should be in the box, it really should be.

Greetz,

Blake

PS: don´t get me wrong, the SY 300 is a nice synth with great possibilities - I like it very much!


Rhcole

You are right that Slow Gear can reset and be an issue. But, you should also be programming the Amp envelope for a slow attack as well. In essence, the Amp envelope is a somewhat limited A/R envelope follower. It can create a slow attack or plucked sound on its own. You use the Slow Gear to emphasize the effect, and it can definitely work better depending on what you have in front of it and how much you blend it in.

chrish

Quote from: BlakeWilder on September 14, 2015, 10:37:29 AM
Hi!

I tried to get some "fade in pad sounds" with the Slow Gear effect, problem is that after some time the effect tries to retrigger and begins to stutter - so I tried to compensate this with a compressor (right before the SL, both after the OSC mixer) which holds up the guitar´s sustain a little longer. Works great but I have to sacrifice two FX slots for this...so ADSR should be in the box, it really should be.


There is another compressor on the input sens page, ie: the guitar icon prior to the osc section. Did you try that to increase the guitar sustain which may free up a FX slot?

chrish

#19
I should add: thanks for pointing out that glitchy, resetting slow gear effect. I was playing around with that today and it seems that when too many oscs are triggering, that effect resets with a click.  I was using factory patch u57 which uses slow gear to good effect on single notes. Then i started feeding the sy300 some prefader mixer sends. I started with a les paul dropped an octive from the vg8 and then sent a rising and falling slow sweep from  one dc osc on the roland mks-50, which has a ADSR envelope,and a reverb effected nylon string guitar. While i liked the resulting sound, the sy300 was clicking away while the slow gear was constantly resetting. Am i expecting too much from a unit designed for guitar input or should this slow gear fx be glitch free and needs a firm ware update? i am tending to agree with you Blake, a true adsr env would be useful. If i ask real nice, would roland include this in the update? :-)

Rhcole

The Slow Gear resetting is inherent in the design. You have to work around it by changing settings or evening out the signal you send to it. It triggers or it doesn't, and when it is set high that can create an audible pumping or resetting sound.

I have the equivalent product in an actual pedal. It works very similarly, although I have to say the virtual Slow Gear in the SY-300 is especially sensitive to this issue.


Now_And_Then

Quote from: chrish on September 13, 2015, 12:41:54 PM...my ibanez 8 string electric guitar (which sustains for a long time and triggers sympathic string vibrations)...

Oh m-a-a-a-a-n! I don't know about anyone else, but suddenly I am thinking "Coral Electric Sitar"!

Elantric

Feed an old keyboard into the Sy-300 makes for new sounds too

chrish

Quote from: Now_And_Then on October 02, 2015, 02:39:00 PM
Oh m-a-a-a-a-n! I don't know about anyone else, but suddenly I am thinking "Coral Electric Sitar"!
I have a knock off copy of that sitar, but I haven't run it through the sy300 yet. It's standing in line waiting for it's turn. ;D

Now_And_Then

#24
Quote from: chrish on October 02, 2015, 03:18:05 PM
I have a knock off copy of that sitar, but I haven't run it through the sy300 yet. It's standing in line waiting for it's turn. ;D

I'd be very interesting in your results. I don't know how the sympathetic strings are tuned ( edit: apparently they can be tuned to anything although not easily / quickly) but the mere fact of so many strings sounding at once would tend to baffle the frequency analyzers, don't you think? Although obviously I have no idea about the technology actually used in the device. Still, it could be an interesting experiment. (I have never played any electric sitar but I seem to recall reading that some of the knockoffs are actually better than the original. The name "Jones" as a brand comes to mind. I think I'll go and poke around on Youtube...) 

edit: Oh here we are: Jerry Jones Electric Sitar - ! No longer available (And this video includes a li'l guitar lesson! Recommended! Try it with your EHX Ravish Sitar!)


Quote from: Elantic
Feed an old keyboard into the Sy-300 makes for new sounds too

How complex a waveform would it be possible for frequency analyzers to cope with before they just refuse to output anything meaningful? Another interesting question!