DisplayPort Cable as replacement for fragile DIN GK-13 pin cable

Started by Elantric, July 04, 2014, 08:06:07 AM

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Elantric

==

To replace the fragile 13pin DIN cable, I have thought of simply using a DisplayPort Cable as a new analog / digital interface to the Roland GK guitar, but run GK-3 analog signals + MIDI up to the guitar.
Note the Locking Plugs! and no issues with "HDMI" compliance.
 




Then I could use a new guitar mounted Ardiuno based stealth MIDI knob controller for more user control right on the guitar - rather like the old Roland 24 pin guitars.

(RARE-JIMMY-PAGE-OWNED-PLAYED-ROLAND-G-707-GUITAR-PROTOTYPE-SERIAL-SAMPLE-01 is available here:
Full size DisplayPort cables are more robust than DIN13 cables, can be readily found in 25ft length. Perhaps have a DisplayPort  to DIN13 adapter at the GR-55 / VG-99 end. And a redesigned GK-3 "pod" at the guitar with more user controls.

Just  a dream for now.

The issue is the DisplayPort cable capacitance is designed for high speed data, and not analog audio. While it may not be ideal without  well designed active analog buffers, its really worth pursuing for my need for a more user friendly road worthy cable IMHO.

For example, the JamHub does OK using essentially a video DisplayPort type connection to its proprietary DisplayPort analog audio option adapters (SoleMix Remote) .
www.jamhub.com



also used here for passing 100% analog audio


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01M68UK38/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and DisplayPort cables are cheap

read more at
What would make 13-pin guitars more appealing, more successful?
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2011, 07:43:37 PM »
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4634.msg31671#msg31671

musicman65

Elantric,

I thought all the signals on the 13 pin cable where buffered (relitively low impedance) so cable capacitance is of little concern?

bd

Elantric

Quote
I thought all the signals on the 13 pin cable where buffered (relitively low impedance) so cable capacitance is of little concern?

Correct!

I think a 15ft  DisplayPort cable is an ideal migration path
$13 / ea - and LOCKING Plugs!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005H3Q59U?gclid=CLepju21rb8CFQaBfgodk0UAug

abhijitnath

Could you post the female plugs that work for these and can be mounted to a guitar, too? And no additional buffering required compared to the standard 13-pin cable, right?

Kevin M

I've been using DisplayPort cables for a few years now and have never been overly impressed with the so-called locking connectors. They're a bit flimsy, in my opinion.


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Elantric

QuoteI've been using DisplayPort cables for a few years now and have never been overly impressed with the so-called locking connectors. They're a bit flimsy, in my opinion.

And you consider the DIN 13 pin Locking connector more robust and durable than DisplayPort?

I think it all depends on the DisplayPort Cable vendor - I have a few different makes and models of DisplayPort cables and some are very bad, while others are quite acceptable for on stage use  - and more durable than any DIN 13pin.

DisplayPort is already being used for Pro Audio applications past 4 years  by JamHub


QuoteCould you post the female plugs that work for these and can be mounted to a guitar, too? And no additional buffering required compared to the standard 13-pin cable, right?

It would have to be a PC board mounted DisplayPort Female jack -

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/JAE-Electronics/DP1RD20JQ1R400/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtAYTMy7wxAr0af8iOfCFSktqcSPYJ6G2U%3d





http://www.ebay.com/itm/Displayport-Female-connector-Breakout-Board-adapter-elabguy-DP-F-BO-V1AS-VGA/262927756552?_trksid=p2385738.c100677.m4598&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3D6133ae13bb534b3abb341f34a99b3e75%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D14%26sd%3D262927756580




another issue is most are considered "high density" connectors and something you never "hand solder your cable harness wires directly to the jack - a high density PC board will always be required - but I think a retro replacement board could be made for GC-1 / Roland Ready Strat / GK-KIT -GT3 Internal users rather easily.

Then I would address  External GK-3 users by designing a new PC board, that GK-3 users could swap out old Roland GK-3 PCB for the new "smart GK-4 Displayport" type.   

Kevin M

Quote from: Elantric on July 07, 2014, 09:42:09 AM
And you consider the DIN 13 pin Locking connector more robust and durable than DisplayPort?



Of course not!  Comments about one needn't imply preference for the other!  :-). Just have had a few DisplayPort cables over the years that didn't seem rugged to me. If I were to opt for a replacement I'd probably choose the VGA type connector that can be threaded for a more secure connection.

abhijitnath


Moja

HDMI cables & connectors were never designed for hi number of Insertions like our standard 1/4" guitar jacks. Way too Tiny, flimsy....

I recently modified my American Roland Ready Strat & GR-55 with the VGA style DB-15 metal shell system.


thebrushwithin


teejay

Quote from: Moja on August 02, 2014, 11:30:17 AM
HDMI cables & connectors were never designed for hi number of Insertions like our standard 1/4" guitar jacks. Way too Tiny, flimsy....

I recently modified my American Roland Ready Strat & GR-55 with the VGA style DB-15 metal shell system.

Nice!!!
Custom KGB headless, internal GK2a and sustainiac stealth plus. GR55 straight into PA.   Guitar out (COSM) feeding digitech VL4 vocal harmoniser.

admin

QuoteHDMI cables & connectors were never designed for hi number of Insertions like our standard 1/4" guitar jacks. Way too Tiny, flimsy....

True - observe we are not  talking about using HDMI connecters here - rather the larger DisplayPort connections - which are far more robust 

scrufy

Quote from: admsustainiac on August 28, 2014, 10:30:16 AM
True - observe we are not  talking about using HDMI connecters here - rather the larger DisplayPort connections - which are far more robust

Just had to comment.
We have been using display port cables on a project at work with 6 footers running to long range adapters for video walls and out of the 100 or so cables we have used so far, I'd say 5 percent are instant failures due to flakey/loose fitting mechanical connections.
I'd really look carefully at the parts before stalling into any situation where the cable will be moving around and thus pulling on the connection.

Moja

I did the modification on both the guitar side and in my GR-55.  This is the new type 15-pin ,  HDB-15 connector systemas used on video/monitor connections.
       3 rows of 5-pins, plus the metal shield for total of 16 connection.  ( 2 extra pins for future expansion possibilities )

    It is very confusing because the much larger old style ( 2 rows of 7 plus 8 pins ) , the DB-15, is way too long to fit into a Roland Ready Strat's original 13-pin cavity.  I did not want to cut /router bigger hole.

     The problem is that I used " solder " type HDB-15 panel mount, straight ( in-line ) connectors. I am a seasoned solder person ;).  The 15 pins are factory inserted into a Plastic housing. Ha, ha,   But no matter how careful I soldered, it seems the heat loosened at least one of the 15 pins. This seriously degraded the reliability in my opinion.

   It worked great. Very robust mechanically.
    But I was not happy with the possible long term reliability of the solder top heat on the pins.

   PCB , through hole HDB-15 solder type work very well because typical the soldrr
Ins are right-angled and the long pins ( PCB solder side to plastic body ) is much longer and heat dissipation ( melting of plastic body ) is reduced. Wave soldering is easy.
      In addition,hand soldering each pin causes undue mechanical pressure as the pin is heated. This causes plastic melting thus loose pins.

   So I ordered crimp style HDB-15 connectors for future projects.

Thank you for all your comments.

     

Elantric

You have to be careful and use the right connector, and I prefer my 30 year old roll of Kester 60/40 Solder


Solder cup contacts on Female HD15 jacks are best type  - use male to male HD15 cable
http://www.l-com.com/d-sub-solder-cup-d-sub-connector-hd15-female

admin

Here's a new twist for 13pin connectors - new 13 pin jack as featured on the new 2016 Roland Super UA I/O Breakout box




http://www.roland.com/products/super_ua/

baatkarlo

I got one on eBay last week. Windows 10 seems to allow only 44.1khz 24-bit recording choice in Ableton Live although the Roland Super UA is supposed to allow 384, 192 khz. Any thoughts or suggestions on how to get it to work right? The driver automatically downloads from Roland so there is no update to control here, and the help file sucks.
Eat sleep get up play. Eat sleep get up play. Eat sleep get up play.

Elantric

Download and install the Windows 10 driver for Roland Super UA
https://www.roland.com/global/support/by_product/super_ua/updates_drivers/



http://www.rolandus.com/support/knowledge_base/?product=SUPER+UA&submit=Search

Open the UA-S10 Control Panel.
Windows:
- Open Programs, open the "Roland" folder and then open the UA-S10 Control Panel.