Some questions - Roland GR-55 and Kiesel SH-575

Started by DulcetSong57, February 05, 2018, 06:06:00 PM

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DulcetSong57

Hi everyone. I'm new here and new to guitar synths. I just picked up a Roland GR-55 guitar synth so I'm just now getting around to checking out the MIDI on my three-month old SH-575. I have a lot to learn about the synth, but have a few quick questions for those more experienced.

1. My low E string was not registering with the synth. To isolate I went into the synth's tuner where the display shows clearly if the synth is "seeing" the string. By reseating the cable and then pulling it back against its stop, it "fixed" the problem and the GR-55 senses the string now. I'm planning to buy another cable as a spare, but is this a common problem with these 13-pin cables? On my first impression the connection seems a bit fragile. Did I just get a bad cable or ??? Any thoughts, suggestions would be welcomed.

2. For a spare cable do you recommend the Roland OEM cable or have you found any replacement cables that work well (and, are maybe cheaper)?

3. This one is for anyone who has experience with the Kiesel SH-575 or other Kiesel MIDI equipped guitar. The bank switch on my SH-575 will advance banks upward on the GR-55, but moving the switch in the other direction does nothing. I was expecting it move to a lower bank. Would the cable be suspect on this, or do I maybe have a problem with the switch? I would be curious as to anyone else's experience. I'm going to call Kiesel but wanted to ask here first.

Thanks everyone - any help appreciated.
Larry

gumtown

The Roland cables seem to have an anti-oxidant coating on the pins,
using de-oxit or a similar solvent could help.

A Forum member here ( codesmart ) manufactures some very good/reliable GK 13 cable.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

mooncaine

Was just about to suggest a different cable, and also to use de-oxit to clean the one you've got. On this forum, there's a detailed post about how to use de-oxit to safely clean the 13-pin socket, too (because you shouldn't just spray cleaner in it, I think).


chrish


Rhcole

I had your exact setup 8 years ago.
1. Most regular 13 pin cables are noisy and inferior to better cables supplied by a handful of suppliers here. I use Gittler cables with a right-angle plug and couldn't be happier.
2. My SH-575 switches advanced and reversed patches. If yours only goes one direction something is wrong. Is your setup used? These can get programmed to act wonky. If it is new, your Ghost board may not be right or the switch may not be connected right. Out of warranty I had a local luthier fix my SH and replace the Ghost because Kiesel doesn't specialize in those and my local work quality was better.

gumbo

#5
The Up & Down patch change commands are relayed to the unit via pins on the 13-pin jackplug on the end of the cable....in the same way as the signals for the individual strings.
To do all this, the pins need to make sufficient and acceptable contact with the 'receptacles' in the jack on the guitar and also that of the jack on the Gr-55.
If ANY of these connections are NOT being made (or only partially, because of resistance caused by a build-up of grot /corrosion) the signals / commands will not get through.

It is important to understand that the condition of the pins in the jackplugs have a MARKED effect upon the performance of the system, as does the condition of the pin receptors in the jacks themselves.

Corrosion (oxidation ), general grot, and physical damage through age and bad handling can all contribute to failures.

The Roland jack itself is also (by design) subject to failure due to the fact that is was basically never designed from the outset to be thrown around on a stage....it's beginnings were centred around the thought that it would be the connector for a bunch of equipment located in a static position on a DESK....think "ATARI"....   ;)

Cleanliness (of all components in the signal chain) is imperative for correct operation...

..the thoughts and ideas covered under the posts about Cable Maintenance are just as applicable to keeping the jacks themselves in acceptable operating condition.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3132.0

Without trying (!) to push my own barrow, there are other alternatives to efforts required to keep 10-year-old Roland jacks 'on the road'...   8)

Cheers,
Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

carlb

#6
Still have my Carvin hex-out SH-575 and SH-475. Love those two guitars, so well made.

Get yourself a good cable. Codesmart's are great. Just do it. Don't not do it. If you're thinking about doing something else first, no, get a great cable first. If you don't get a good cable, rather than the "stock" Roland cables, you will have big-a$$ pops and fffts and slightly-off string balances, and other lovely thing occur at your gigs. If at home, during your recordings.

That's the great news: It's so easy to get a rock-solid hex-out experience - IF YOU HAVE A GREAT CABLE. So get yourself a great cable, and keep that stock cable for ... some emergency that I can't even think of. (Maybe your buddy is in a complete body cast and so can move in the slightest, and cut-straight-through his really good cable. Well, your stock cable will work half-way decently for him, because HE CAN"T MOVE IN THE SLIGHTEST.)

OK ... And now for the not-so-great news. The Ghost system on an old SH-575 has a good chance of having become wonky. One of mine started tripping through patches all on its own.

And more not-so-great news. The Ghost piezos gather "buzzz" like bees gather pollen. You'll notice it on high-gain patches, but it also affects any pitch detection that's going on. Forget about using any "GR300" patch: "BUZZZZZZZZ." You'll really notice on a high gain patch where you thought you were going to rest your palm on the bridge for a slight muted response. No, unless you like 120 cycle buzz, you won't be resting your palm on a Ghost outfitted bridge.

RMC pickups and built-in circuit boards are a decent alternative, as the piezo elements are shielded. Bad news is that the piezo elements can go bad after a few years. As happened to mine, a few years after I swapped the Ghost hex for RMC hex.

Now the path you want to take, saving yourself years of sub-optimal performance that I dealt with. You're welcome. Get a GK-KIT-GT3 mag hex pickup setup from Roland, and have a luthier retrofit it for that Ghost setup. Don't go for the RMC setup, unfortunately, for the two-year piezo replace issue, but also ... The Roland mag pickup sounds so much better with the GP-10 or VG-99. Acoustic sounds, electric sounds, very much noticeably better. Night and day better modeling with an ATG-1 floorboard.

Of course, you'll need to reset up your patches and global settings to "tune" your GP-10 to the Roland pickup. But once you do, wow, you'll be glad you took some advice from a guy on the internet who knows first-hand what you're going to run into with your GP-10 and your SH-575.

Have something for you when you go for the Roland pickup about installation, but let's wait until you're there. Just a slight complication, nothing to worry about though.

Did I mention to GET YOURSELF A GREAT CABLE? Yes, do that.
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Rhcole

My replacement Ghost board from 3 years ago was much quieter than the board that came with the Carvin. It was probably on the order of 70% better. I liked that setup, I had it next to a GK-3 guitar and measured both for tracking and performance, they were close enough for me.

Sold the SH-575 though, it never quite balanced right for me.

DulcetSong57

Thanks everyone for the great responses. Lots of great ideas. I will definitely pursue getting some new/better cables as a starting point. That should help isolate whether the guitar bank switch issue is a problem with the guitar or the cable.

To clarify - the guitar was a new custom build (which I absolutely love).  I didn't have a guitar synth so that was the one part of the guitar I wasn't able to check out when I received it. Here are some pictures of the guitar:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/larrydarnell/albums/72157690227060572

The synth is not quite as straightforward. I picked up the GR-55 on eBay.  The seller sold it  it as "new-unopened in box."  Well, it was in its original box and overall appears new, but the unit had been unwrapped, had light dust on it and no plastic protection or wrapping. The cable had been unwrapped as had the power supply. Everything looked new though except for a scratch on the bottom of the unit. The expression pedal had no marks, scuffing or dirt of any kind. The GK-3 pickup and all related components were still wrapped up as from the factory. Manual was missing - no big deal as I got it online.

I got a great buy on this unit. So, after checking it out I decided to keep it as it appears someone bought it, tried it out, didn't like it and sold it on eBay. I verified that it has the most current version of firmware, and I performed a factory reset on the unit to start clean. I need to spend some time dialing in sensitivity, etc. Once I get the new cables I'll see if I am still having the issue with the bank switch. If so, I'll contact Kiesel and see what is up.

Thanks again to everyone for the help and advise - it is really appreciated.

Elantric

Quote from: DulcetSong57 on February 07, 2018, 09:38:31 AM
Thanks everyone for the great responses. Lots of great ideas. I will definitely pursue getting some new/better cables as a starting point. That should help isolate whether the guitar bank switch issue is a problem with the guitar or the cable.

To clarify - the guitar was a new custom build (which I absolutely love).  I didn't have a guitar synth so that was the one part of the guitar I wasn't able to check out when I received it. Here are some pictures of the guitar:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/larrydarnell/albums/72157690227060572

The synth is not quite as straightforward. I picked up the GR-55 on eBay.  The seller sold it  it as "new-unopened in box."  Well, it was in its original box and overall appears new, but the unit had been unwrapped, had light dust on it and no plastic protection or wrapping. The cable had been unwrapped as had the power supply. Everything looked new though except for a scratch on the bottom of the unit. The expression pedal had no marks, scuffing or dirt of any kind. The GK-3 pickup and all related components were still wrapped up as from the factory. Manual was missing - no big deal as I got it online.

I got a great buy on this unit. So, after checking it out I decided to keep it as it appears someone bought it, tried it out, didn't like it and sold it on eBay. I verified that it has the most current version of firmware, and I performed a factory reset on the unit to start clean. I need to spend some time dialing in sensitivity, etc. Once I get the new cables I'll see if I am still having the issue with the bank switch. If so, I'll contact Kiesel and see what is up.

Thanks again to everyone for the help and advise - it is really appreciated.

Use GR-55 Floorboard Editor
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2951.0

carlb

#10
Piezo pickups need a replacement input board installed in the GR-55, from RMC. It kills the extremely low frequency noises that come with piezo pickups. Otherwise you'll get lousy results for PCM tracking, and modeling won't be as good.

So instead, put the GK-3 on the guitar, and run with that until you can get an internal Roland hex kit built in.

The GR-55 will sound more natural (less "modeled") and the PCM triggering will be better with the GK-3.

Don't forget about getting a good cable ...



ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Rhcole

I personally never experienced the low frequency issues that others did. It was kind of the luck of the draw, I guess. I had both piezo and GK-3 guitars side-by-side for a few years and found that they sounded different but I never experienced the GK tracking better.

I'm not a high-gain guy though, that might have changed my mind.