Android Software idea - MIDI patch select from android?

Started by datsunrobbie, February 17, 2012, 06:15:48 AM

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datsunrobbie

Would it be possible to tie together a text document with patch select on the GR-55 via USB? I have a 10" android tablet (Viewsonic G-Tab) that I use to display song lyrics. It would be really neat to be able to send a patch select to the GR-55 via USB to match the song displayed on the screen. I line up patches so I can manually switch during a song if needed, and note the patch I want to start with in the text file so I can dial it up manually on the GR-55 pretty quickly, but it would save a little time if the lyric sheet could tell the GR-55 which patch to start up.

Any thoughts?

gumtown

Tha android device would have to support a midi device or USB with a GR-55 driver.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

tekrytor

I've used FingerPlay Midi and TouchDAW to remote control my mixer, but I think they will also send PC or sysex messages to the GR-55. There are several other MIDI control apps for Android, Control, TouchOSC, and some I forget the names of. If you search the markets for "midi" or "midi control", they pop up. They usually require you to install a host server to process the app data on the host PC or Mac and make the MIDI connections. If you want to control several target devices at once, you can use MIDI-Ox and/or Loop-be or Maple to route to more than one target device. Most of the Android MIDI control apps have a free trial version and some are entirely free. I'll try to test at few and report back soon.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

shawnb


I think you're looking for a simple DAW app on the Android with a lyrics view.   As tekrytor says, there are several out there (TouchDAW, Zquence).   What I don't know is how good the lyrics view is on 'em.  Then, of course, there's the matter of getting the MIDI signal to your gear....   

This is also interesting, but it's dedicated gear, it doesn't leverage your tablet:
    http://www.rocktrondreamgig.com/
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

tekrytor

I looked into Android MIDI control a bit and it turns out there are a few very interesting possibilities, including these Android apps:
Both apps allow you control parameters via MIDI commands, create a custom user interface, and include some how-to info.

The "very" interesting thing about TouchOSC is that there is an existing thread on VG Forums discussing existing work by mbenigni (aka Marc) on an iPad TouchOSC template for the GR-55, which if not 100% portable to TouchOSC for Android (same dev), may at least include some useful related content that is possibly portable to an Android template!!!

The iPad TouchOSC work seems to have migrated to TB MIDI though, which has better two-way MIDI com features.

Existing TouchOSC for GR-55 threads in VG Forum's GR-55 section include (may be others too):
From what I've read of these posts, it seems the goals was to produce an iPad based GR-55 Editor, which was apparently not possible in TouchOSC when it was attempted due to bidirectional MIDI communications limitations within TouchOSC...whereas we're talking about a rather simple one way patch changing app that would permit us to Velcro an Android phone to our guitar and push virtual buttons to swap patches, which I think would be quite doable and very useful or at least a nice gag at gigs or just to show off in the studio. It would require a computer with a MIDI connection to the GR-55 and possibly USB MIDI would work on some platforms. I like straight MIDI though, because it seems to use less resources on the GR. But I may be wrong about that. In any case, a PC or Mac may not be what everyone wants as road gear or a stage setup. Call this paragraph "Preliminary Caveats".

After about 30 minutes searching, I did NOT find postings of any templates for TouchOSC though, so I'll keep looking and I'll send Marc a request and point him to this thread. Maybe he can give us some advice. From what I've read so far, Marc seems to be the main user behind the iPad TouchOSC template.

I'm working on some other GR-55 related docs today. But as soon as time permits, I'll look further into Android based remote patch control; if no one else has resolved it already. Being an Android guy, I was skipping over the iPad related posts. I'll watch those a little closer too in the future though. Great stuff! Maybe we can cooperate on some solutions.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

Elantric

#5
Ben's GR-55 TouchOSC Template has a few versions -

This is the Main thread:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3205.300

Ben's most recent posted TouchOSC Template is here on this post:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3205.msg35757#msg35757

Direct link here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3205.0;attach=4628

Elantric

#6
I believe the big hurdle is going to be locating an Android compatible hardware MIDI 5 pin interface.

Without this essential piece of hardware - you will be stuck with having to use a full blown Windows PC - to act as host for the TouchOSC Bridge app.
http://hexler.net/software/touchosc-android
TouchOSC for Android is an OSC and MIDI control surface. It can send and receive Open Sound Control messages over a Wi-Fi network using the UDP protocol and can send and receive MIDI messages using the free TouchOSC Bridge application.


That's why the Jabrudian Missing Link OSC to MIDI wireless bridge hardware box was so appealing - only need an Ipad or Iphone and Missing link - no computer or wifi router required.
http://wifimidi.com/
And note that Missing link is not 100% compatible with TouchOSC for Android.
http://wifimidi.com/setup/
Note also that TouchOSC for Android does not yet allow for custom OSC messages. Your OSC app must allow custom OSC messages, and must also output its values in the 0-1.0 range (floating point), with slash ("/") delimiters. Those last two requirements should be pretty standard.


 

Elantric

#7
There might be some hope - this thread indicates USB  Class Compliant MIDi interfaces may be able to work with Android.
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-mobile-81/question-about-android-hardware-usb-and-midi-interfaces-889802/
MIDI testing on Acer A-500 works fine for me
Hello,

I have written a lot of MIDI apps, mostly using the MidiShare framework (midishare.sourceforge.net). But like you, I wanted to get something going on Android, and after a lot of digging found some ideas and wrote a simple test program.

Not wanting to modify my stock Acer A-500 tablet (Android 3.2, Kernel 2.6.36.3), I decided to access the Midi USB adapter using the Usb Host classes provided in the SDK.

I tried two different USB Midi adapters, an Edirol UM-1 and an old Turtle Beach one (no model number on it, I think it's the only one they made under that name). Both worked with the same protocol, I just had to change the resources to match the different Vendor and Product ID's. All Midi data is transported in four-byte packets and no setup commands are required; just get USB permission, find the in and out block transfer endpoints, and use multiple threads to prevent stalling.

My test program so far just generates a few fixed NoteOn and NoteOff messages to test the output (played just fine on my Casio synthesizer) and printed the incoming MIDI messages in a TextView to check the input (received the Casio's keyboard messages fine).

The next step will be to implement code to send/receive MIDI to/from a standard midi file, and then to write a full application for a sequencer. But the important thing is proof of concept -- with the latest Android you CAN use a USB Midi interface (at least these two) without rooting the tablet and adding additional drivers.

Brian
 


and plans to build a Bluetooth to MIDi convertor board for Android
http://hackaday.com/2011/07/09/turn-any-bluetooth-device-into-a-midi-controller/
Peter Brinkman] is working on a circuit that makes it easy to interface MIDI and Bluetooth devices. His target hardware has been a MIDI compatible keyboard and an Android phone. He was inspired to tip us off about the project after reading about yesterday's Bluescripts project.

We've embedded two demo videos after the break. They show [Peter] first using this hardware to receive MIDI signals from a keyboard on his Android phone, and then he demonstrates using the phone and an on-screen musical keyboard to transmit data back to a MIDI device which generates the intended sounds.

It's an interesting project and he's headed down the kit-production path right now. You'll want to browse all of his recent posts, but we especially liked reading his thoughts about simplifying the circuitry. He originally had two separate voltages running in the circuit with a level converter for data signals. After some re-conceptualization he ditched several components and improved the functionality a bit.






tekrytor

Kudos Elantric:! Very useful additional info! Thank you and applause!

Regarding the wifi issue...
I can use my phone (myTouch G4 aka Glacier) as a hotspot, so I don't necessarily need a wifi router to run wifi linked apps with my PC. Not all phones can do this though. I would probably need to root my phone to be able to disable phone RF separate from wifi for less potential problems live. I can imagine going for a solo patch when a rouge telemarketing call pops up and hides my killer patch switcher app for just the 5 seconds I need it. Hmm, more caveats.

Also, there is a BlueRay MIDI Android app called BluePad, that sends MIDI via Bluetooth, possibly another option to get from Android devices to PC to GR.
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

datsunrobbie

Thanks for all the replies! I'll check into the options you folks have pointed out if life slows down just a little bit, and will certainly post back with my findings  :)

mbenigni

#10
Hi all,

Been watching this thread for a couple of days; probably should have chimed in sooner.  The reason I steered clear is because, while I might be able to help with content for a TouchOSC Android template, I don't know how that's going to fit with your needs for a lyrics viewer.  Maybe these would be two entirely different apps that you could switch between on the fly?  I don't know anything about your Android phone or how it handles multitasking, but if you had for instance TouchOSC managing your patch selection, and even something as simple as a web browser w/ bookmarks to your lyrics... done.  There are a lot of alternatives to the web browser of course - apps that are specially designed for displaying lyrics and chord changes, with auto-scrolling etc.  It's integrating GR55 patch selection and lyric display that will get tricky, I think, unless you are up for some custom scripting of your own.

As for my template... it changes frequently depending on my own needs, but attached is a very recent version.  Copy and paste the patch selection controls (bottom of the amp page) from this template into your new Android template.  If that fails, copy and paste the underlying OSC event strings from my controls to your new controls (e.g. /midi/0xf0 0xb0 0 0 0xb0 0x20 0x00 0xc0 1 0xf7).

Just to clarify, I do use this as my primary patch editor and it's great on iPad.  (It wouldn't be practical on anything smaller IMO.)  Controls only *send* to the iPad, so they're generally inaccurate following a patch load.  The only other major limitation is that you cannot configure Assigns with this template.

Fabien from TB MIDI Stuff has been working with me directly to enhance his app so that a translated template might overcome some of these limitations.  It's fantastic being able to communicate directly with a developer about available features.  If we can get, for instance, bi-directional communication between GR55 settings and iPad controls, I will switch from TouchOSC to TB MIDI Stuff for good.  But we will still have a lot of work to do getting the TouchOSC template fully translated to TBStuff, and there is the ongoing search for effective ways to connect iOS and Android devices to the GR55.  (IMO the Missing Link can't be beat, but if you're looking for something hardwired, or perhaps less expensive, then there will be some trial and error involved.)

There are a lot of parallel efforts going on now, so to summarize:

MIDI Touch: one forum member has a very nice iPhone interface to manage simple core tasks, like amp EQ, guitar and pickup selection and so on.  I think he's using the Camera Connection Kit to connect.

Lemur: at least two forum members are working independently on GR55 templates.  This is arguably the most powerful application available, but it is expensive, and I believe much of the functionality you're paying for is not directly applicable to a GR55 interface.  Thus far, I think they are using PC/Macs and the Lemur daemon to communicate with the GR55.

TouchOSC: I have completed, and am already using, a full-featured editor, excepting the limitations described above.  I'm using Missing Link, and I don't know of any alternatives other than running a PC or Mac w/ OSC Bridge, which for me defeats the purpose.

TB MIDI Stuff: Fabien is working hard at making this a TouchOSC-killer and - although the jury is still out - I have a feeling he will.  For one thing he's been very responsive to new ideas, and for another, he's planning on getting himself a GR55, which should really help us with understanding new requirements and testing new versions.  So I'm pretty sure this is where I'm heading.

So far it looks like TB Stuff will require Missing Link as well.  Other interfaces (e.g. CCK) seem not to support OSC, but I'm sure there are a number of adaptors on the market that we haven't tested.  If anyone has anything to add on that topic, please do.

tekrytor

@ Marc: Thank you for sharing your template, the wealth of information on the mobile editor status, and for all the work you've done on TouchOSC for the GR-55!!!

I downloaded the template and am experimenting with it. I'll update this post when I have news.

I'm thinking the small displays (even a 10" pad) will not make for elegant long patch editing sessions, which are quite nice with the FloorBoard and a 24" monitor as in my home studio. In this case, a handy live patch manager/changer is what I'm really looking for and as you suggested, perhaps an excerpt of that portion of the template will do the trick. It would be a shame to squander the other work though, so if it ports entirely, I think that would be very useful too. Especially with the Missing Link and away from the home base, it would be an excellent portable patch editing solution! Therefore, I'll try to get both templates working on Android ToucOSC and get up to speed on TouchOSC and its templates to contribute what I can to the effort. Yeah, Missing Link is fast moving up my wish list. Roland should consider designing similar capability into all its midi gear; which smells like the future to me. Who wants wire?

@ DatsunRobbie
Re: "Would it be possible to tie together a text document with patch select on the GR-55 via USB?" << aka "the original question"

My apologies for hijacking the discussion to the MIDI portion only. I got carried away. You may be aware of the several lyric apps available for Android. My favorite is "The Chordinator" which can interpret ChordPro file format, txt, and its own "csf" file format, but is lyrics and chords only, no MIDI of any kind. Another good song app is the iReal Book, which now has MIDI accompaniment capability, but I don't think it includes lyrics, basically a shortform chordsheet for jazz and pop standards. I suspect its midi playback only and may not include control functions though. I've not tried the MIDI version yet. A hybrid of these two apps could be wonderful though. Also, if FL Studio comes to Android like they promise, and if it includes MIDI and lyrics like the desktop version (high hopes, IMO), that might be what you're looking for, soon in a commercial app. I say high hopes because most of the mobile apps I see from the bigger players are mini versions that usually leave out some of the most desired features. However, what your asking for is a no-brainer IMO, meaning that I think musicians would love it. Until an all in one app comes along though, I can easily run two separate at once swapping between them as needed or more likely just running my lyrics from my pad on a note/mic stand (like I do already) and my patch manager from my phone velcroed to my guitar for easy access (TBD with TouchOSC). The Chordinator lets me manage set lists and edit the song files, to which I can add the patch numbers or names inline as highlighted notes among the lyrics for use on the patch manager app. So I don't necessarily see two apps as a problem. For Lyrics and MIDI there is a user configurable Windows app called azMIDI that can organize your MIDI control and lyrics in one app. If you have a PC in your rig, you could run it on the PC and view/control it from your tablet using a remote app, of which there are maybe a dozen currently out there for Android, and certainly ones for iPad/Pod too.

Cheers!
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

datsunrobbie

certainly no need for any apologies  :D . My background is in oldschool computer hardware (Digital Equipment mainframes and other ancient hardware), where we did a lot of simple controls by basically sending text directly to the target hardware. I put together a cash register system using hardware that was really only supposed to go to Blockbuster Video years ago that would do simple things like pop open a cash drawer when you sent a specific text string to the drawer. Lots of little single-line programs to do specific tasks that were beyond the scope of what the hardware was originally meant for. So I'm thinking about an app that would send a command to the GR-55 to just select a patch, then open a file on the tablet to display a text file. Programming for the android platform is entirely new to me, and it seems there is simply never enough time to get find the common ground that makes it "click" with my prior programming experience. I'm looking at the android platform because I received the tablet as a gift and see that there are people out there with much greater skills than me doing what looks like more complex tasks, like actually editing the patches on the fly.

I saw another thread recently about putting together a database of songs that relate to patches on the GR-55 and look forward to contributing to that once I can sort through the piles of paper I carry to open mic nights. Linking songs to patches automagically would be such a big help. Just a a shortcut to jump directly from preset 54 to user 01 without having to spin the dial while people are shuffling around the stage (picture 5 guitar players onstage all at once along with bass, drums, and keys, and any part of the lineup changing, seemingly at random, depending on what song somebody calls out - it's a fantastic open mic if you are into learning new songs while playing them onstage), because sometimes it's tricky just to get back over to the GR-55. Two separate apps might even be better than one, because we'll have plenty of tunes going on that I won't have a cheat sheet for but know another song where a particular patch would work out. A patch list similar to the one in Gumtown's awesome editor, running on a tablet, either direct through USB or through a midi converter like missing link or the midisport box that connects my VG-8 to the PC. The open mics are just a bit chaotic and crowded for adding a laptop into the mix, and the less gear I have to cram into my Fiero to get to the gig the better.

tekrytor

Hey! It's just XML!
...and away we go!
More soon...
SY-300/BeatBuddy/VoiceLive 3/GR-55(v1.50)/33/1/50/700/VGA-7/V-Bass, Yam-G10, GPK-4, DIY X-Bee HighlyLiquidCPU "Cozy-Lil-Footie", FCB-1010, other MIDI stuff, Godin Freeway SA and various other GK equipped controllers, Sonar X1, Audacity, KXstudio, Misc devices

Elantric

#14
FWIW -there is an Android app called REMUDO to allow an Andoid Phone or Tablet to remote control and edit Fender Mustang amps and Mustang Floor FX unit via a USB cable.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6879.msg129821#msg129821

It's possible using a USB OTG adapter and because Fender Mustang Amps are USB Class Compliant. 

GraemeJ

Ckeck out MobileSheetsPro - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zubersoft.mobilesheetspro&hl=en - it's a great bit of software for music/lyrics display and (although I don't use this feature) I know some users are using it to send midi commands to their instruments.

Good support from the author and he's always willing to look at aything you might ask for.