Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI

Started by audiotrax, January 18, 2012, 08:09:15 PM

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aliensporebomb

#25
Yeah wow!  That guy has got the chops!  Unreal!  And the thing kept up without issue.  The drums and the bass/organ were particularly impressive.

So I wonder if Roland took notice because that thing looks like it has the best tracking I've ever seen in a guitar-to-midi device ever.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

vanceg

Steve - Did you play the demo version of the Triple Play over on the right side of the booth?  When I played it, the latency was beyond awful.  I mean, horrifically bad. So bad that SOMETHING must have been wrong.  I handed the guitar to the booth person who said that this is, indeed, the way it tracks...and he thought it was great.  My experience at the booth was so bad that I figure that there MUST have been something wrong with that demo unit when I played it. How was your experience?


Elantric

#27
QuoteSteve - Did you play the demo version of the Triple Play over on the right side of the booth?  When I played it, the latency was beyond awful.  I mean, horrifically bad. So bad that SOMETHING must have been wrong.  I handed the guitar to the booth person who said that this is, indeed, the way it tracks...and he thought it was great.  My experience at the booth was so bad that I figure that there MUST have been something wrong with that demo unit when I played it. How was your experience?

When I was at the booth late Sunday, Larry Fishman was having a meeting with the "spare demo" version - so actually I have not played it.

I suspect there must have been a problem - because the live demo I saw and heard had no perceptible latency.

and yes I have seen dozens of Guitar to MIDI demos at NAMM since 1984.

The year is young, I think we should all mark our calenders for June 2012, and revisit the final shipping version at that time.

vanceg

Yeah - I can't imagine releasing a product which felt like what I experienced. The GR-55 blew it away by miles.  But, again, this is NOT to say that this is the final word!  I suspect it won't be the final word at all ;-)

Quote from:  Elantric on January 23, 2012, 06:02:00 PM
When I was at the booth, Larry Fishman was having a meeting with the "spare demo" version - so actually I have not played it.

I suspect there must have been a problem - because the live demo I saw and heard had no perceptible latency.

and yes I have seen dozens of Guitar to MIDI demos at NAMM since 1984.

The year is young, I think we should all mark our calenders for June 2012, and revisit the final shipping version at that time.

Elantric

#29
Click the direct YouTube link and set to higher quality Video for stereo sound demo of the Fishman TriplePlay Wireless Guitar to MIDI converter.


DC23

Interesting that one of the unit's latency was THAT bad.  Honestly, it looks like a dream on that NAMM demo elantric posted.  I would have to believe something was wrong with that unit.  Even with Mr. Szalay's demos on youtube from last year etc., the thing still looked to track extremely accurately and quickly.  I believe Fishman have been working on this thing long enough that they intend for it to be better than what Roland's putting out.  I think it'd be a waste for them to spend years on R&D and then announce this thing and have it be less effective than even a GR-55.  I guess we'll all have to wait and see (begrudgingly).   >:(

Still can't wait to get my hands on one! :D

Elantric

#31
QuoteInteresting that one of the unit's latency was THAT bad.

EDIT - FTP high latency was traced to the Preonus AudioBox USB driver settings set incorrectly


"e -----
From: Andras Szalay
To: midiguitar@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: [midiguitar] Re: Fishman Triple Play

Believe us, we thought about all these ideas of piezo pickup, nylon string
guitar, floor unit with MIDI out, bass guitar compatible unit, etc., and
these will come. Also, the Triple Play supports a Hold/Arpeggio/Looper +
Chain pedal set, Burr used these in the demo. This will be optional, not
part of the basic package. Only if these options would come all at the same
time, it would take a hell lot of time until release, and we did not want to
let you wait much longer. So, the product that was shown on the leaflet at
the NAMM is a first release, different packages and auxiliary extensions
will follow soon.
Do not forget that also the first release of the AXON did not work with
bass, with piezo, did not have Arpeggiator, etc...

>> I've got rack synths already.
Specifically, a floor unit with MIDI out was my priority, but I had to admit
that if we would start to sell a unit with a MIDI OUT only, I cannot name a
single rack synth today that would be a good match for the Triple Play,
except as second hand :(

Anyway, if you have still more ideas that we probably did not think about,
we have open ears for that ;)

Andras Szalay"

guitarnstuff

Any ideas on how much this thing will cost? It definitely looks as if the midi conversion has roland beat...but won't have the COSM guitars, tunings, and amps of the VG99 but it has me thinking nonetheless.

scratch17

Thanks for the better video quality.

I noticed a few things (because I could actually see!) that I missed in the first iteration of the video.

1. At one point, Burr points to a keyboard and says the Triple play is sending it MIDI via its wireless connection. That brings up a question.
Can a user buy a base kit, and then purchase additional USB dongles to connect to multiple MIDI hardware devices? If so, how much for an extra USB dongle?

2. The editor has a pic of the box which says Synth, Mix and Guitar along its side. I assume this is a simulated switch that let you change the position of the hardware on the actual box, in the editor. Since the audio from the guitar is not transmitted, what are the functions of the Mix and Guitar positions of this switch?

3. If your band has two guitarists, each with a Triple Play equipped guitar, can you set each to transmit on a different frequency? Or must you transmit on different MIDI channels?

4. I never saw Burr playing a different instrument on each string. Assuming you had a fast enough computer to handle the six pug-in instances, can the Triple Play transmit a different MIDI channel on each string?
Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
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aliensporebomb

#34
My guess is the faster the Mac (that's definetely a Mac up on the screen just looking at the user interface and the fonts) the faster the guitar-to-midi conversion. 

Well let's be more specific: what are the minimum and "ideal" system requirements for the computer in question?

Is the processing power determined by the box mounted on the guitar or the computer?
Does the box on the guitar use batteries?
What kind of batteries?
What is their running time?
Can you run more than one if you have 2 players in a band?  Do they change to a different wifi or bluetooth frequency?

Did anyone figure out the dimensions of the control box on the guitar?


My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

mbenigni

QuoteMy guess is the faster the Mac (that's definetely a Mac up on the screen just looking at the user interface and the fonts) the faster the guitar-to-midi conversion.

This is an interesting question.  I had assumed that the audio-to-MIDI conversion all took place within Fishman's hardware, so that the speed of the computer shouldn't be relevant, except in terms of the latency in generating your virtual instrument tones, and producing audio (e.g. your typical ASIO latency.)  Is there actually a software layer translating audio-to-MIDI on the PC/Mac?

arkieboy

I understand the USB device presents the device as a class compliant midi interface so the host computer is not involved in the processing.

Personally I'm not too worried about the lack of hardware midi - even though I have several old synthesisers that are excellent matches to my Axon unit I was beginning to think that I might still route the midi through Mainstage to simplify configuration and maximise the flexibility of my UNO chipped FCB.

Now there's a thought - do you think someone could work out a way to install the dongle in an FCB, using it as the midi ports and providing power?

If you need hardware midi you should be able to use one of these.
http://www.kentonuk.com/products/items/utilities/usb-host.shtml

My main hope is that we get roland style hold mode rather than Axon style.  I could never get the hang of 'press to layer/release to hold'.

Steve
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

paults

Here are a couple of ideas that may get those of you who don't solder a reason to practice for the next six months:

Assuming the pickup specs are similar enough to the Roland, adding an inline connector to the Triple Play's pickup lead ( and to all your GK pickups) makes one of these into a system for as many guitars as you have GK pickups on. 

Or, if you want to still be able to use COSM guitar modeling at the same time, one of the outputs from a guitar-installed audio splitter, or a GK-4, or a Breakout Box could be sent to the Triple Play.

Time will tell, but it seems to me the pickup is likely very similar- the prototype had what looked like a Roland pickup on it.



sixeight

What is the function of the synth/guitar/both switch on the pickup? I guess only midi is sent wirelessly, not the audio.

Elantric

#39
Its best to Re read this thread for the details of the evolution / de-evolution of this product:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3444.0

As I understand it, originally they planned to include wireless transmission of the normal guitar signal too - but final costs to the projected final MSRP increased quite a lot, so they changed the spec and removed several features from the initial June 2012 release version.



For direct communication with the developer (Mr. Andras Szalay )- join the Yahoo MIDIGuitar group - but be warned its like using a carrier pigeon - they have a few heavy handed moderators over there that screen each and every user post, and depending on their mood, they either pass your message through or they block  / delete it before it can be posted. Its so annoying i no longer try to post questions there.

   

DC23

Is anyone a member of the yahoo group?  I cannot seem to log in to post, very strange.  Just wondering if someone could throw a question up there.  It seems like there may be a few versions/variations coming out with different add ons.  Just wondering if Mr. Szalay could clear up if the subsequent releases after the June release will be add ons to the original June release, or will they be different products (as in if I were to buy the initial June release...which I very much intend to...would it hinder me with subsequent releases for the Triple Play system, or can I just buy those adds on later).  I know Andras was talking about some pedals, etc., just wondering.

Either way, very cool.  Saw another video done by HC on youtube about it.

Elantric

Quote>> There is a Fishman TriplePlay OSX Control GUI app, and I assume a windows
version will exist too?

We had three demo stations at the NAMM, two on MACs, the third one at the
back of the booth was a Windows PC.

>> Can a user buy a base kit, and then purchase additional USB dongles to
connect to multiple MIDI hardware devices? If so, how much for an extra USB
dongle?

If this is what you mean, one transmitter can send data to one receiver
only, this is strictly limited, since communication is bidirectional and
every message is acknowledged back from the receiver to avoid the
possibility of data loss. But of course, you can chain an arbitrary set of
MIDI and USB devices to respond to the transmitter, but these must be
connected with each other through MIDI ort USB cables, depending on the
setup. So, only one receiver for one transmitter.

>> I understand the intial version will not have wireless transmission of
the normal Guitar signal. Since the audio from the guitar is not
transmitted, what are the functions of the Mix and Guitar positions of this
switch?

If you go to the PC with the guitar signal and insert our plugin in the
signal chain you can turn the guitar signal on or off. This is for the
starter kit. On stage, if you go to the guitar amp directly, for the floor
unit -- what exists as a prototype, that John McLaughlin is using - you can
couple the guitar signal through the stomp box, and it is switched on or off
by a relais.

>> If your band has two guitarists, each with a Triple Play equipped guitar,
can you set each to transmit on a different frequency? Or must you transmit
on different MIDI channels?

The system uses one of 80 radio channels, so the number of device pairs is
almost unlimited. You just press a pushbutton on both the transmitter and
the receiver that you want to work together, and they tune to each other
automatically.

>> I never saw Burr playing more than two instruments or a different
instrument on each string. Assuming you had a fast enough computer to handle
the six softsynth plug-in instances, can the Triple Play transmit a
different MIDI channel on each string?

This is what it basically does, and that was the case in all demos. It sends
the lower fret split on channels 1...6 and the upper split on channels
11...16; the hold, arpeggio and looper is on channel 7, so normally it uses
altogether 13 channels. But just like the AXON it can be configured to POLY
MODE, sending all strings on channel 1, if a compromise cannot be avoided.
But in this case there are no splits.

>> Is Pitch bend range adjustable?

Yes, 0...24 semitones.


>> What are the dimensions of the control box on the guitar?

It is about the same surface on the guitar as the GK-2, but much more flat,
so it fits easily into a hard case without carving it out...

>> what are the minimum and "ideal" system requirements for the computer in
question? Is it best to use a Mac? or will a fast Windows PC work too?

System requirements depend on the soft synth that you use, it determines 99%
of the needed computing power. PC and MAC are equally good to use.

Andras Szalay

Elantric

#42
New video with better close- up shots of the TriplePlay unit

???????2012NAMM : FISHMAN Triple Play

I now see that there are more controls than i thought:




Elantric

#44
Realize nothing ships from Fishman until June 2012.
Still might want to order before inflation hits this summer and the price doubles.

Fishman Triple Play Wireless Guitar Controller
[tripleplay]   $299.00USD


Playing guitar just got more fun! Triple Play™ is the ultimate wireless guitar controller. The ultra-slim pro design and Fishman's intuitive software pack get you set-up and working fast. Unlock your guitar's potential — powerful and unlimited sound capability is at your command — all with the freedom of wireless control.

COMPOSE – Open up new unlimited creative options with every possible instrument at your command. Full accurate notation lets you share your music with members of your band. If you're a beginner, accurate note-by-note transcriptions help you learn faster and more intuitively.
PERFORM – Integrate your guitar with any virtual instrument or hardware synthesizer to provide on stage access to an unlimited array of instruments, samples and sounds to enhance your performances.
RECORD – The best solution to integrate your guitar with your favorite DAW running on a PC, Mac® or iPad® as a complete music recording and production tool. Build an entire arrangement from drums to bass; add keyboards, horns and strings, all from the Triple Play Wireless Guitar Controller.
Main Features:

Includes Wireless Controller, Hexaphonic Pickup, and Wireless USB Receiver
Wireless technology eliminates proprietary bulky cables
Works with Industry standard DAWs and Virtual Instruments
Unique "hold" feature and string or fret splits with multiple instruments
Simple to install on your electric guitar and can be easily removed
Low profile design (less than .5") can be left on your guitar and still fit in its case
Over 100 foot range
Operates with rechargeable Lithium Ion battery (included)
Menu navigation controls
Guitar, Mix, Synth switch easily accessible while performing
Guitar synthesizer volume control
USB powered wireless receiver interfaces to computer or iOS device
Includes comprehensive software bundle to get you started
Works with Windows®, Mac® and iPad®

This product was added to our catalog on Thursday 26 January, 2012.

guitarnstuff

So it says...
If you go to the PC with the guitar signal and insert our plugin in the
signal chain you can turn the guitar signal on or off. This is for the
starter kit. On stage, if you go to the guitar amp directly, for the floor
unit -- what exists as a prototype, that John McLaughlin is using - you can
couple the guitar signal through the stomp box, and it is switched on or off
by a relais.


QUESTION...Does that mean it would simultaneously send midi and mono guitar signal into the COMPUTER....thus you would be able to have a VST instrument such as an organ AND your guitar signal processed by a VST such as Line6 AmpFarm? However, if you want a analogue signal from your guitar to your amp you would need to use a cord until the prototype pedal board thingy in on the market.....is my understanding correct?

Elantric

#46
Remember this product is still 6 months away.

We covered this before, they scaled back the initial product release to be wireless MIDI only for the $299 version.

The full version will provide wireless MIDI and wireless user switch control to a software plugin  / status to a floor mounted box with footswitches and Both MIDI , Audio, and USB output jacks.

But it will rely on a separate Guitar cord or third party wireless Guitar interface.

bbob

So I take it that the Fishman and VG-99 / GR-55 don't work together.  ???


Bob

Elantric

QuoteSo I take it that the Fishman and VG-99 / GR-55 don't work together. 

correct

yuri

#49
Hi all, so it's better to wait for order, or I can order right away (what changed)?I ask your advice about triple play  -PURCHASE now or wait 6 months  ? an awesome thing for me ! (maybe I have to sell now my GR 55). Thanks Elantric for all info