GR-55 MIDI RX Patch Change MAP?

Started by gumtown, March 09, 2011, 10:57:23 AM

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gumtown

The problem with the GR-55 Midi Program table is that on previous units  it has been setup by default that the received program change messages match 1:1, where on the GR-55 everything is "off".
So to use the GR-55 midi table set to "Program" you will have to setup every patch to match a program change message from the other gear sending MIDi patch change messages

I think for simplicity, it is best to leave the GR-55 midi program mapping to "Fixed" and shuffle the GR-55 user patches in the order to match the patch changes from the VG-99 (unless you are into hours of serious hit & miss program matching).

Check that the GR-55 "RX PC" is enabled in the system settings.


--

Moderator EDIT 1/17/2014:
I suggest read other Roland Owners manuals that cover the process of MIDI Patch Receive remapping in more detail than the GR-55 manual  - like the old  VG-88 Owners manual.
Read page 70 here
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1811457/VG-88_e5.pdf
and

Page 79 here:
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/59105308/GR-55_e04_W.pdf
PC RX SWITCH = On
Turn this "ON" if you want program change messages from an external device to switch patches. You can
use the RX BANK/PC MAP to change the correspondence between incoming program change numbers
and the GR-55's patches.


RX PC MAP = Map Select
When using program change data transmitted from an external MIDI device to switch patches on the GR-55, this setting specifies
whether the correspondence between the received program number and the patch will be fixed, or whether it can be specified
freely.


RX PC MAP = Map Select, FIX
The incoming program change data will select the predetermined patch regardless of the BANK/PC
settings.


RX PC MAP = Map Select, PROG
The patch specified by BANK/PC will be selected.

RX PC MAP = BANK, 0-63
Select the bank number (MSB 0–63) of the program change shown in the RX PC MAP (the LSB is fixed at 0)

RX PC MAP = PC, [LEAD] **-* [RHYTHM] **-* [OTHER] **-* [USER] **-*
Specify the patch number ([LEAD] 01-1–[USER] 99-3) that will correspond to each incoming program
change number (bank number).


Jim Williams suggests these steps
QuoteMidi mapping on the GR-55 is pretty simple but there is a lot of scrolling with the wheel. go into your system and get into midi settings and tab over to the midi program table(RX PC MAP). change the value from fixed to program then go to your first patch PC1 (PC 001) and it should say OFF. High light it and turn the wheel to the patch that you want to come up when you receive PC 001 message. you must get the PC message from another device because if you use the GR-55 patch change it will select the patch in that location on the GR-55. do this for every patch you wish to use. remember that if you only do this for the first 5 all the patches after 5 will remain at you 005 patch.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Guitarbot

Gumtown, you seem to be familar so I will ask you; (Thank you)
How do I get to the GR-55 factory presets using cc messages?
I use a foot controller to control the GR-55 which is in my rack.  I can only get to user patches:
CC#0    PC      PATCH
0           0       user 1-1
0           1       user 1-2
0           2       user 1-3
etc
0         127     user 43-2
1           0       user 43-3
1           1       user 44-1
1           2       user 44-2
1           3       user 44-3
etc
1         127     user 86-1
2           0       user 86-2
2         40       user 99-3

I then set my expression pedal on the LF Pro as a cc, and set up a pedal to change the cc of the expression pedal which in effect gives me 2 expression pedals.  (With 64 pedals on the LF Pro, I could set up plenty more if needed.)

gumtown

The presets start off at Bank 16 ( hexadecimal 10)
CC#0    PC      PATCH
10           0       LEAD preset 1-1
10           1       LEAD preset 1-2
10           2       LEAD preset 1-3

they increment from there up through the RHYTHM and OTHER catagories too. :)
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Guitarbot

I truely thank you.  How did you know that?  I don't see it in the manual. 

gumtown

#4
Magic !! ;D

no.. i'm using Bome's SendSX program
http://www.bome.com/products/sendsx
to receive midi data from the GR-55 and display the midi bytes on screen.
If you press any of the Sound Catagory buttons, the midi address data is shown, or if you turn the dial.

I also use the program to send data requests to the GR-55, and see what it sends back.

Try this to request the current patch from the GR-55
F0 41 10 00 00 53 11 18 00 00 00 00 00 31 34 03 F7
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Guitarbot

I figured you had something to see what it sent.  I just wanted to see if I should have understood something from the manual.  Seems like they would list it in the manual.

Anyways, you are the man!! Thanks,

Slotracer

#6
I'm still unsuccessful in getting my GK-55 to respond to patch change commands, sent via midi, while in "programmable" mode. One person told me it's not possible unless you program all 297 memory locations for that table. However, the Roland guys in LA had my unit, and tried to duplicate the problem and it worked fine for them. Not wanting to waste anymore of their time I agreed to take it back. When it arrived I immediately tried it and it failed again. First of all, let me say that I know what I'm doing here. I'm a 41 year veteran of studio and live performance. I've worked with midi since it's inception. My live guitar rig incorporates midi program changes to control all fx and channel switching on my Mesa amps. I simply wanted the GR-55 to be added to the chain of midi programming. Since it responds fine while in "fixed" mode, it can't be a connection issue.
So, I need a definitive resolve. Setting my patch table to work in fixed mode is a weak workaround. I'd like it to work as described in the manual.
By the way, the Floorboard editor program still does not include the actual midi patch table in it's System menu. Make me wonder if there's a connection.
Thanks!
John Arevalo

Galvonot

I am having a similar problem, and have been doing this guitar synth thing since the 80's. Could the bank setting have something to do with it?  I tried them all, I think, but I cannot get a response when I send a program change from my Midi Wizard while in PRG mode.

gumtown

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Slotracer

Gumtown, I wonder if you understand the problem here. Obviously you are supremely knowledgeable on this but I still haven't seen an answer to the problem. The GR-55 simply does not work in programmable mode. Please help if you can.
Thanks.

gumtown

#10
If you could explain the setup you have, and what you would like to achieve, thanks.

The midi program change affects the midi table routing only from an external midi controller,
and in the GR-55 System settings, the "PC RX Switch" needs to be enabled to recieve external midi program change.
If you want the GR-55 patches to be controlled by the programmable midi table - via the GR-55 foot pedals, then try a 5-pin midi cable plugged from the GR-55 midi-out to the gR-55 midi-in.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Guitarbot

I use the Liquid Foot Pro to control my GR-55, VG-8 & Axe-fx Ultra.  This free program helped me see exactly what was being sent so that I could get it all set up:
www.midiox.com/

Galvonot

Thanks for your attention, Gumtown. And the fabulous editor.

For my purposes, I'd like to send program changes 1,2, and 3 from a Midi Wizard to the GR-55 and have the program table translate it to user patch 1, 4, and 7. So my footswitch would jump from bank to bank, and I would use the GR-55 switches to choose individual patches.

When I try this, nothing happens.  All the proper GR-55 switches are set, as is the midi channel.

I've programmed the Wizard to compensate for this, but I have other reasons for wanting to be able to change it at the synth end.   

Cristoby

I see a "BANK" option in the table settings which appears to select just the bank (0-63), using the PC data.  Seems like a direct solution for your task.  I have to test it to see...

gumtown

#14
I would suspect that if your midi patch change device does not send 'Bank change' data, then only use 'Bank 0' of the GR-55 programmable midi table.
It has just occured to me that the devices i have used successfuly with the GR-55's programmable midi table send both Bank + Patch change data.

This is the mid data the GR-55 understands

For Bank 0 Patch 0 (U01:1)
B0 00 00 (bank 0)
B0 20 00 (control change)
C0 00     (patch 0)

For Bank 0 Patch 1 (U01:2)
B0 00 00
B0 20 00
C0 01

For Bank 2 Patch 28 (U99:3)
B0 00 02  (bank 2)
B0 20 00  (control change)
C0 28      (patch 28)

Under the programmable Midi Table "Bank 0"
Set the program change (PC) to the User or Preset Patches of the Gr-55 you want your external midi controller to work with.

The GR-55 FloorBoard editor patch change (left-panel patch-tree items with a single mouse click) sends both Bank and Patch change data, you could use that to test the Progammable Midi Table in the GR-55.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Cristoby

I just played with the mapping table, and works fine here.  It seems to need legal GR-55 bank changes while in FIX mode, as per gumtown, but in PRG mode it accepts any CC 00 value from 0 to 63, with its PC message, as long as an entry for it is defined in the table.  So, send all three messages, regardless of mode.

Slotracer

Ok, today I took my GR-55 to Guitar Center where we unpacked a brand new unit to see if it would work in prog mode. It, unfortunately, didn't. We carefully checked all parameters to be sure. We also went back and forth between fixed and programmable modes and like mine, it only worked in fixed mode. So, this is indeed a bug that Roland needs to address.
To clarify my situation, I'll list all of the hardware involved. I use a Rolls Midi Buddy to transmit midi patch change data. It only transmits patch control data. It obviously works fine because not only does it do well controlling my other gear such as myTC Electronic G-Major 2, but it controls patch changes just fine while the GR-55 is in fixed mode. Now, either by some strange coincidence I happened to find two defective units or, Roland did not finish their QC before releasing this unit. :(

Galvonot

It does seem as if you need to send both midi program change and a CC message for the GR-55 to recognize it. The Midi Buddy and Midi Wizard does not do this, but pedals like the FCB 1010 and, I imagine, the Roland offerings can send both the CC messages to select bank, the program change message to select patch.

It is unfortunate that Roland did not include an option to allow straight program selection to work in PRG mode, but that does seem to be at the case.

gumtown

I too can confirm that the Map Select in "PRG" mode requires 'Bank and Patch' data, and won't work with Patch change only,
a little disappointing, and only leaves the option of re-arranging the User patches and only using the Map Select in "FIX" mode.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Elantric

#19
QuoteIt does seem as if you need to send both midi program change and a CC message for the GR-55 to recognize it

As Gumtown stated above, you need a MIDI Bank Select message.

details are here:
http://www.midi.org/techspecs/midimessages.php

Many MIDI footcontrollers can not send this message, however the Roland FC300 can send the MIDI Bank Select message.

Slotracer

FINALLY!!  Thank you, gentlemen, for confirming my problem. I thought I was losing it. Now, to get Roland to admit it. I just had an email exchange with their tech support and they insist that it works fine. Well it works fine IF you have hardware that supports the GR-55. This is something that needs to be shared in advance so a buyer can make an informed decision. Shame on you, Roland. The GR-55 still kicks ass, though.

Guitarbot

I can check to verify, but if I remember correctly: When I was trying to figure out how to get my liquid foot pro to control it...if I didn't send a bank select message then it would just pick the patch of whichever bank I was in at the time the message was sent.  ie: If you manually choose the user presets bank then the foot controller still picks patches within the current bank.

gumtown

Quote from: Guitarbot on June 14, 2011, 06:26:24 PM
I can check to verify, but if I remember correctly: When I was trying to figure out how to get my liquid foot pro to control it...if I didn't send a bank select message then it would just pick the patch of whichever bank I was in at the time the message was sent.  ie: If you manually choose the user presets bank then the foot controller still picks patches within the current bank.

It has to have the "Map Select" option set to "PRG" with some table translation values entered.

With the "Map Select" set to "FIX" you only need to send 'patch change' data and your patch changes will remain within the first Bank.

With the "Map Select" set to "PRG" patch change only data is ignored, unless there is Bank change data sent with it.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

mslinn

I wrote a JavaScript GR-55 user patch calculator for Ableton live. The standalone version is here, and I also embedded it in my GR55 notes page.

Machh_2

#24
Hi all!

Please, I need some help with a question on "Select Map"

ON GR-55 Manual pg79 / RX PC MAP / Map Select says: "When using program change Transmitted data from an external MIDI device to switch patches on the GR-55, this specifies wheter you received correspondence Between the program number and the patch will be fixed, or Whether it specified Can Be Freely "

FIX: change the incomming program will select the date Predetermined patch regardless og the RX BANK / MAP PC settings.

PROG: The patch specified by RX BANK / PC MAP will be select.

Based on this statement of the manual, I can understand that if I use a FCB1010 I can freely access any patch inside the GR-55, remapped within the 64 possible slots?

If this is true, I can use my FCB1010 I bought there 10 years and NEVER used it, is still in the box as it came from the store since then.

Thank you,

Wilson