Boss Sy-1000 in 432hz?

Started by GearSounds, January 20, 2023, 11:57:30 PM

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GearSounds

I see that 435hz is the lowest the boss sy 1000 can go to as a reference pitch. How can I adjust my sy 1000 to get it to do 432 hz properly? If anyone is willing to program this I'm a buyer!

Brak(E)man

#1
I might be wrong but.
If you tune your guitar to 432 I don't see any issues with the SY except not being able to use the tuner and the chromatic mode with the OSC synth and the same with pitch to midi ( and harmony fx maybe ), I don't think it'd be audible though but that's just me.
(I doubt there would be an problem using 440 in SY and a guitar that's tuned in 432 either.)
I use it with fretless guitar without any problems. quarter tones , microtones and all.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

aliensporebomb

I'm pretty sure it can be done because I did it with the VG-99 as an experiment.  Let me see...

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

plexified

The BOSS tuner registers the sound of the actual guitar tuning and the adjustment range of the tuner is +/- 435Hz to 445Hz. You can also use an external tuner and tune any way you wish.

What I would point out is that your guitar is now the reference point for Alternate tunings INSIDE the SY 1000 COSM. Now the SY 1000 will be able to tune in the range of whole tones and Cents for Fine tuning.

Lets use a few real world examples.

You go to a jam session and you tune to the bass player or another guitar player or a keyboard. No problem. Your in tune with everybody.

If you tune to A 440Hz its a Concert tuning same thing, your in tune with the Concert tuned instruments.

If you wish to tune to 432Hz you should have no issues if you are the only player or others are tuned to 432Hz.

You can use the Alternate Tuning inside the SY 1000 to be tuned A = 440Hz at the guitar and 432Hz (-32 Cents) inside the COSM module. Here you can use the conversions to do this. Because things are not perfect in tuning world you have to do what works for you.

A = 440 would need to be lowered by -31.76 cents. Your Fine tune ablity inside the SY 1000 is +/- 50 cents for each string, a very fine tuning feature.

Example :

Frequency    Difference

(432 Hz -31.76 cents)

435 Hz    −19.78 cents
436 Hz    −15.81 cents
437 Hz    −11.84 cents
438 Hz      −7.89 cents
439 Hz      −3.94 cents
440 Hz      ±0 cent
441 Hz      +3.93 cents
442 Hz      +7.85 cents
443 Hz    +11.76 cents
444 Hz    +15.67 cents
445 Hz    +19.56 cents

generally 4 cents per tuning interval.

So if you used the SY 1000 tuner @ A = 440Hz you could go inside the COSM area and you would tune the entire guitar down - 32 Cents for each string.

Conversely, you could tune to 432Hz and raise the COSM tuning inside + 32 Cents to meet A = 440Hz. 

Here is a conversion site that can allow a deeper dive into tuning and making it all work, scroll through ! :

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-centsratio.htm

So Tuning is one of the magical features of the BOSS/Roland Modeling. Each string can be tuned octave up or down and +/- 50 Cents for each patch.

GearSounds

Quote from: Brak(E)man on January 21, 2023, 12:10:04 AMI might be wrong but.
If you tune your guitar to 432 I don't see any issues with the SY except not being able to use the tuner and the chromatic mode with the OSC synth and the same with pitch to midi ( and harmony fx maybe ), I don't think it'd be audible though but that's just me.
(I doubt there would be an problem using 440 in SY and a guitar that's tuned in 432 either.)
I use it with fretless guitar without any problems. quarter tones , microtones and all.


Unfortunately you would be wrong on multiple levels but allow me to clarify. Firstly let me just say that the oscillating synth function of the sy1000 is the only thing that differentiates it between the sy300 meaning that if you cannot use the oscillating synth function you might as well just get an sy300. I tune to 432 Hertz so right now I cannot use that function as it will automatically play a 435 Hertz note or whatever the synth is tuned to. What is worse is that it is also listening for a 435 Hertz note so oftentimes it will even play the note below what I'm actually playing as I am tuned to 432 hertz. This means that having a guitar tuned to 432 and the synth tune to 440 would most of the time trigger the correct notes but many times would trigger the wrong notes making it completely useless and unusable for 4:32 Hertz players like myself. Now that I see that I lost $500 on this unit I'm pretty upset as it doesn't seem there is any way to actually tune the oscillating synth notes to 432 hz. Those notes don't actually react to Bends and are simply triggering a sound.

GearSounds

Quote from: aliensporebomb on January 21, 2023, 07:25:55 AMI'm pretty sure it can be done because I did it with the VG-99 as an experiment.  Let me see...



I hate to say you're wrong but I believe you're wrong. I don't know a single Roland product that does 432 hz and I can't find a programmer to help.

GearSounds

Quote from: plexified on January 21, 2023, 02:04:55 PMThe BOSS tuner registers the sound of the actual guitar tuning and the adjustment range of the tuner is +/- 435Hz to 445Hz. You can also use an external tuner and tune any way you wish.

What I would point out is that your guitar is now the reference point for Alternate tunings INSIDE the SY 1000 COSM. Now the SY 1000 will be able to tune in the range of whole tones and Cents for Fine tuning.

Lets use a few real world examples.

You go to a jam session and you tune to the bass player or another guitar player or a keyboard. No problem. Your in tune with everybody.

If you tune to A 440Hz its a Concert tuning same thing, your in tune with the Concert tuned instruments.

If you wish to tune to 432Hz you should have no issues if you are the only player or others are tuned to 432Hz.

You can use the Alternate Tuning inside the SY 1000 to be tuned A = 440Hz at the guitar and 432Hz (-32 Cents) inside the COSM module. Here you can use the conversions to do this. Because things are not perfect in tuning world you have to do what works for you.

A = 440 would need to be lowered by -31.76 cents. Your Fine tune ablity inside the SY 1000 is +/- 50 cents for each string, a very fine tuning feature.

Example :

Frequency    Difference

(432 Hz -31.76 cents)

435 Hz    −19.78 cents
436 Hz    −15.81 cents
437 Hz    −11.84 cents
438 Hz      −7.89 cents
439 Hz      −3.94 cents
440 Hz      ±0 cent
441 Hz      +3.93 cents
442 Hz      +7.85 cents
443 Hz    +11.76 cents
444 Hz    +15.67 cents
445 Hz    +19.56 cents

generally 4 cents per tuning interval.

So if you used the SY 1000 tuner @ A = 440Hz you could go inside the COSM area and you would tune the entire guitar down - 32 Cents for each string.

Conversely, you could tune to 432Hz and raise the COSM tuning inside + 32 Cents to meet A = 440Hz. 

Here is a conversion site that can allow a deeper dive into tuning and making it all work, scroll through ! :

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-centsratio.htm

So Tuning is one of the magical features of the BOSS/Roland Modeling. Each string can be tuned octave up or down and +/- 50 Cents for each patch.


Hello, you raise a great point by using the cause and tool to change the pitch of the guitar unfortunately that doesn't fix the issue that I have. The issue that I'm trying to solve is get the oscillating synths to play in 432 Hertz with a 432 Hertz guitar. When you set the oscillating synth to 435 Hertz in the tuning function of the synthesizer this means that the synthesizer is listening for 435 Hertz notes and will play them when it hears them. If you play a 432 Hertz note it is close enough so it will most likely play it but sometimes it will play the wrong note below it as again it is listening for a higher pitched note than 432. Worse yet is that even if I tune the way you are specifying the synthesizer would still be in 435 Hertz itself as I don't see any way to manually tune the oscillating synth down.

Brak(E)man

#7
Quote from: GearSounds on January 21, 2023, 02:21:16 PMUnfortunately you would be wrong on multiple levels but allow me to clarify. Firstly let me just say that the oscillating synth function of the sy1000 is the only thing that differentiates it between the sy300 meaning that if you cannot use the oscillating synth function you might as well just get an sy300. I tune to 432 Hertz so right now I cannot use that function as it will automatically play a 435 Hertz note or whatever the synth is tuned to. What is worse is that it is also listening for a 435 Hertz note so oftentimes it will even play the note below what I'm actually playing as I am tuned to 432 hertz. This means that having a guitar tuned to 432 and the synth tune to 440 would most of the time trigger the correct notes but many times would trigger the wrong notes making it completely useless and unusable for 4:32 Hertz players like myself. Now that I see that I lost $500 on this unit I'm pretty upset as it doesn't seem there is any way to actually tune the oscillating synth notes to 432 hz. Those notes don't actually react to Bends and are simply triggering a sound.
The OSC synth and gtm would be the only thing ( with maybe the exception of the harmonist fx , haven't tried that) that would be affected when in chromatic mode not when set to non chromatic.  But that said it works fine in all pitches for me with fretless in non chromatic mode.
And btw you're mistaken, the OSC synth do react to bends, slides gliss etc
The synth doesn't really listens for a 435 or 440 hz note otherwise.
The instruments, the dynamic synth , the GR300 , vio etc etc
plays the string as an oscillator in whatever pitch it's in.
And the OSC synth is definitely not the only thing that differentiates the SY-1000 from the SY-300.
There's tons of things that's different.
I use both units with both fretless and fretted guitars and the micro and quarter tones as well as the long gliss would not be possible if what you describe is plausible.
When I fi use the sequencer set to different pitches it's always relative to the pitch I'm playing. In other words if I'm playing a quarter tone let's say a sharp minor second then all the intervals in the sequencer will be in relation to that exact pitch.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Bill Ruppert

Why would you want to tune to 432?

aliensporebomb

#9
Quote from: GearSounds on January 21, 2023, 02:24:35 PMI hate to say you're wrong but I believe you're wrong. I don't know a single Roland product that does 432 hz and I can't find a programmer to help.

Examples:

431hz August 2013 (listen to it first - it sounds slightly sour to me if you listen to the 440hz track first):
https://soundcloud.com/aliensporebomb/vg-99-431-hz-august-2013

440hz August 2013:
https://soundcloud.com/aliensporebomb/vg-99-440hz-august-2013

Basically, same patch but.... Tracks roughly similar lengths.



My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on January 22, 2023, 06:43:13 AMWhy would you want to tune to 432?


Bill - watch this - it's interesting:
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Bill Ruppert

#11
Oh....
Thanks, Todd

aliensporebomb

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on January 22, 2023, 07:39:47 AMOh....
Thanks, Todd


It's very obvious that Neely was punking the 432hz believers but I love Neely's channel for learning about different musical topics.  He's got quite a few interesting videos.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

admin

#13
I prefer 454Hz -as my A  string already self tightens up to that frequency on cold winter days

And it was the C.I. displacement of big block Chevys


https://www.chevrolet.com/performance-parts/crate-engines/lsx/lsx-454

GeePeeAxe

I can only speak out of my experiences made with other musicians during jams with tuned down instruments. 432 Hz made a little difference only in the bebinning of the jams. The human mind gets soon conditioned to it.

The other, more important fact is that every musician has his/her own favorite tuning. In my case it is Bminor-Dmajor (some 494 Hz) for happier mood, and Bb-minor (466 Hz) for blues or sad tunes. It is also my preference for listening other peoples music.

I guess that the 440 Hz standard was introduced some 100 years because most european folksmusic was played and sung in Aminor-pentatonic in that pitch as basic tone. It was statistically the most used pitch.

http://www.paleotechnologist.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Musical-Note-Frequencies.jpg


GearSounds

Quote from: Brak(E)man on January 21, 2023, 03:18:20 PMThe OSC synth and gtm would be the only thing ( with maybe the exception of the harmonist fx , haven't tried that) that would be affected when in chromatic mode not when set to non chromatic.  But that said it works fine in all pitches for me with fretless in non chromatic mode.
And btw you're mistaken, the OSC synth do react to bends, slides gliss etc
The synth doesn't really listens for a 435 or 440 hz note otherwise.
The instruments, the dynamic synth , the GR300 , vio etc etc
plays the string as an oscillator in whatever pitch it's in.
And the OSC synth is definitely not the only thing that differentiates the SY-1000 from the SY-300.
There's tons of things that's different.
I use both units with both fretless and fretted guitars and the micro and quarter tones as well as the long gliss would not be possible if what you describe is plausible.
When I fi use the sequencer set to different pitches it's always relative to the pitch I'm playing. In other words if I'm playing a quarter tone let's say a sharp minor second then all the intervals in the sequencer will be in relation to that exact pitch.

The sy 1000 osc synth does indeed "lock" to notes and many of my favorite patches in the sy1000 function this way. I will get it on video but try doing bends on every patch and you'll find what I'm referencing.

admin

Quote from: GearSounds on January 23, 2023, 03:31:37 PMThe sy 1000 osc synth does indeed "lock" to notes

Only if the patch is set to Chromatic Mode


Brak(E)man

Quote from: GearSounds on January 23, 2023, 03:31:37 PMThe sy 1000 osc synth does indeed "lock" to notes and many of my favorite patches in the sy1000 function this way. I will get it on video but try doing bends on every patch and you'll find what I'm referencing.
As Admin said.
There's a setting for that, not at all difficult to turn off.
See page 30 reference guide attached
You cannot view this attachment.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch