Is there a way to achieve Poly Ring Mod in the SY-1000?

Started by luca9583, January 01, 2023, 04:59:41 PM

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luca9583

Quick question. The manual says that the Ring Mod effect is stereo in. Does this mean it can handle two strings at once if each string is hard panned?

The reason i ask is that i'd like to achieve a Poly Ring Mod for guitar with pitch tracking, just like the VB-99 is able to do for 6 string bass with Poly Ring Mod set to intelligent.

I'm thinking that 2 x SY-1000 units each running 3 strings only and 3 ring mods (1 per string) or a breakout box with 6 pitch tracking ring mod pedals is the only way to achieve it.

luca9583

I also had a look at some videos of the Boss WP-20G but as far as i can tell there is no intelligent mode for the ring mod in that pedal, even though i'm assuming it's polyphonic given the GK requirement.

aliensporebomb

Poly FX on the SY-1000 by the way are "Distortion", "Crystal", "Rich Mod", "Slow Pad" and "Touch Wah".
No poly ringmod unfortunately.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

luca9583

Quote from: aliensporebomb on January 01, 2023, 06:43:36 PMPoly FX on the SY-1000 by the way are "Distortion", "Crystal", "Rich Mod", "Slow Pad" and "Touch Wah".
No poly ringmod unfortunately.

Yes indeed..but how does the Ring Mod behave when fed a stereo signal of just two strings (each string hard panned)? It's listed as a stereo effect so i just wanted to know if it's therefore able to apply the effect to two strings separately.

stub

I was curious, so I tested this. It seems that though the Ring Mod has stereo input, it seems to only have one tracking path, so notes played on the right-panned string affect the ring-mod frequency on the left-panned string and vice versa. It's a cool idea though.

If you did use two SY-1000's, though you wouldn't need to send a pair of strings to each FX block. Just send one string each from the three instruments (strings 1, 2, 3) into three separate Ring Mods on the first unit, and send strings 4, 5, 6 from three INST's on the 2nd unit into three Ring-Mods. You'd need to mult your GK to both units, but it sounds like you have that figured out.

aliensporebomb

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

luca9583

Quote from: stub on January 01, 2023, 07:48:00 PMI was curious, so I tested this. It seems that though the Ring Mod has stereo input, it seems to only have one tracking path, so notes played on the right-panned string affect the ring-mod frequency on the left-panned string and vice versa.

Thanks for confirming. The VG-99 behaves in the same way. That's a shame as it would have been great if it could handle two strings at a time.

Bill Ruppert

You can create poly Ring mod in dynamic-oscillators two and three.
They ring mod against osc one. Page three.
It's the DNA of FM synthesis.

luca9583

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on January 02, 2023, 05:28:25 AMYou can create poly Ring mod in dynamic-oscillators two and three.
They ring mod against osc one. Page three.
It's the DNA of FM synthesis.

Thanks Bill. What i'm looking for is to get an intelligent pitch tracking ring mod on each string so that they still sound close enough to actual strings.

I'm also curious about the tech Boss used for it's intelligent ring mods in the old multi effects units, and how these differ to something like the Pigtronix Ringmaster which is analog. Maybe it would be possible to make 6 mini ring mod circuits with pitch tracking.

fokof

Yep , an intelligent ring mod in Poly FX would be a nice addition.

And why not being able to Move it , like an FX block , in font of inst 1-2-3 like VG/VB-99

Maybe for the SY-1000.1 ?

luca9583

#10
Quote from: stub on January 02, 2023, 08:23:12 AMIn the Dynamic Synth, you can choose INPUT as the OSC. The behavior is a little unpredictable; and I may have found a weird hack, but if I turn on the RING SW, and get it going as a RING MOD thing, I can switch all the OSC to input and it still seems to be RING MOD'ing. Might be a bug. At any rate, I'm definitely getting the Ring Mod on the input sound (not waveform oscillators). So it is definitely possible (AND you don't need a 2nd SY-1000!)



Thanks a lot for this. Is the Ring Mod behaviour here intelligent (ie tuned to the notes played)? Also, am i right in thinking that when using Input as the OSC, there won't be any COSM guitar modelling so the tone will be that of the raw GK pickup (ie quite thin and piezo like)?

luca9583

Quote from: fokof on January 02, 2023, 07:59:07 AMYep , an intelligent ring mod in Poly FX would be a nice addition.

And why not being able to Move it , like an FX block , in font of inst 1-2-3 like VG/VB-99

Maybe for the SY-1000.1 ?

Yeah so many things they missed on the SY 1000 that were perfect in the VG/VB. I still think Boss/Roland should design this gear as modular, but that's for another thread...

luca9583

Quote from: stub on January 02, 2023, 08:52:34 AMYes, the RING MOD is definitely tracking pitch-- really tight. It's weird, but I can switch the oscillator to SIN and adjust the pitch, etc. Then switch back to the INPUT and that freq of ring mod is preserved. When I turn down the mags on my bass, the sound isn't affected, so it must be using input sound from the GK-3B.

Bottom line, Bill is correct that a poly intelligent ring mod totally works. In my experiment, I was using INST 1 & 3.

Awesome..thanks a lot @stub and @Bill Ruppert

stub

Hey I edited my previous post with more detailed instructions. I'm quite surprised at how full featured this way of doing poly ring mod is-- since you can use oscillator waves or input. But that little trick of setting the OSC to sine, then adjusting the frequency, then switching back to input is the key.

luca9583

Quote from: stub on January 02, 2023, 10:24:47 AMHey I edited my previous post with more detailed instructions. I'm quite surprised at how full featured this way of doing poly ring mod is-- since you can use oscillator waves or input. But that little trick of setting the OSC to sine, then adjusting the frequency, then switching back to input is the key.

Shame that this ring mod capability isn't available for the modelled guitar sounds..i'm guessing the raw input signal as Osc source sounds tinny (similar to when you hear the live tuner in the VG-99).

stub

Quote from: luca9583 on January 07, 2023, 10:03:19 AMShame that this ring mod capability isn't available for the modelled guitar sounds

Yea, you can't have everything. However, you might, by choosing different GK PU TYPEs, find possible improvements on that dry thru-tone. Also, of course, post EQ is helpful, but won't solve everything, obviously. That boost-sweep-find-then-tuck method is pretty effective for notching tinny bands.

luca9583

#16
Quote from: stub on January 07, 2023, 11:07:44 AMYea, you can't have everything. However, you might, by choosing different GK PU TYPEs, find possible improvements on that dry thru-tone. Also, of course, post EQ is helpful, but won't solve everything, obviously. That boost-sweep-find-then-tuck method is pretty effective for notching tinny bands.

Yep. I found that using a GK3 pickup but with Piezo as the selected PU type can improve the tone of some of the models in the VG-99 for example..by removing some spikes in the upper frequencies.

Also there aren't enough outs in the SY 1000 to route each ring modded string to a separate output to then process with match eqs/Cosm modelling

stub

OK, I've got to eat a little tofu-based crow here.

I said that switching the OSC to input, the ring mod was still happening, but I was just being dumb. It was just the other sine wave which I had set to some odd sounding interval.

The only way to have actual ring mod is to set the both OSC waveforms to actual waveforms like sine, saw, etc. It does do polyphonic ring mod, just not with the input in either roll as carrier or mod.

I deleted my above misleading posts. Crunch crunch crunch. Mmmmm. Crowy.


luca9583

How about the resynthesis capability?

Does this work in real time so that while you play, you could send each string to it's own tracking ring mod plugin in a DAW and then loop that back into the SY 1000? Or does resynthesis only work after the fact?

Brak(E)man

Quote from: luca9583 on January 15, 2023, 04:04:10 PMHow about the resynthesis capability?

Does this work in real time so that while you play, you could send each string to it's own tracking ring mod plugin in a DAW and then loop that back into the SY 1000? Or does resynthesis only work after the fact?

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