SY-1000 - Tom Scholz/Rockman/Boston sound anyone?

Started by mrz80, May 20, 2022, 09:41:32 AM

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mrz80

I'm gonna take a shot at this later, but I thought I'd ask around first.  Anyone come up with a semi-convincing simulacrum of the good old Scholz R&D Rockman? It was basically a box full of 80s excess with a belt clip.  8)

I figure I'd start with an upper-mid-heavy clean tone, then compress the heck out of it, run it thru a dime'd Marshall model, then double it (a few cents' worth of pitch shift with no modulation and just a few ms delay), then into a reverb.
Jesus freak, guitarist, luthier, bicyclist, ham (WA4UF)...
Turning every scrap of wood in the garage into Les Pauls, Telecasters, and 12 strings

jonassabatini

he did some interesting EQing

This kid I found online got some crazy good boston tones when I was building some FM3 patches.


aliensporebomb

#2
I've never actually heard a modeler do a great job at this. I used to own the rackmounted rockmodules and wish in some ways I never sold them.  The VG-99 factory patch got the EQ kind of right but tonally all wrong.  I think it could be done closer on that box but moreso on the SY-1000 maybe.  The SY-1000 might get closer since it does conventional guitar stuff better. 

The sustainor broke up the sound this way - first there was a preamp/compressor (controls were preamp gain and compression level), followed by a gate (which had a high cut option and a slider to tell the unit where to kick the high cut in), followed by the distortion and filters (with two channels) (with multiple options but maybe the most important was the phase notcher, a way of doing a cabinet emulation), then the output section which had a novel way of tailoring the style of output via a treble booster for a guitar amp or maybe a FFRR system (this was YEARS ahead of any modeler) with separate controls for rhythm guitar volume, and
individual stereo output volume sliders.

There were a number of novel approaches at work here: EQ before and after the distortion stage, the use of ganged LEDs to actually create a tube like distortion (Scholz seriously is a brilliant engineer) and the like.  I'll see if I can't put something together on the VG-99 and the SY-1000 (and if the SY works the GP-10 should work too for it).   It's early day though yet.  I'll watch that video and see what I can figure out.   The original rockmodules are decades old now and getting one costs a lot of money.   The Japanese effects makers who produce the GOAT generator (and new GOAT chorus) are trying to create stompboxes to replicate those sounds but there's some limitations with those.

More later!

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

Weird thing about the video in this thread - I don't really think you need the secondary Rockman unit unless you want that specific chorus sound - he's kind of created a monster with the extra EQ's in the effects loop and the post-sustainor eq. But interesting, he kind of nailed the sound, or at least one very specific sound.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

roachone

This is about the best I have ever heard anyone sound. Pure Boston sound to me.

aliensporebomb

Glenn's playing is great - the sound isn't quite there in the chorusing and some of the distorted sounds... but the harmony stuff is right on.  It's so close most people won't notice.  Now the trick is, can this be ported to the GT-1000 or SY-1000?
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Volker1981

Did anybody create some Rockman x100 patches yet? That would be so awesome!

aliensporebomb

Still working - it's not quite right.  There's a certain "rockman-ness" that's missing as yet.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

manicstarseed

...But he plugged into a Rockman..
The notch eq is a good tip.

manicstarseed

Quote from: aliensporebomb on July 20, 2022, 08:55:37 PMStill working - it's not quite right.  There's a certain "rockman-ness" that's missing as yet.

Can you share what you have? I wouldn't mind seeing if I could bring more "Boston" to it.
It's quite a tone that Tom Sholtz created there, huh? Folks are chasing it 44 years later.

Thanks;
Glenn

aliensporebomb

I've kind of halted work on this temporarily - family stuff.  I'm going to resume work soon.  EQ is only part of it.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

#11
I'm still working but did you see this?



This is interesting.

The biggest issue is if you follow his instructions you get a horrid noisy crunchy sound that sounds NOTHING like the first Boston record. 
Reminds me a bit of the VG-99 factory patch that purports to do a Boston sound.

The video says the amp needs to be dimed but I do not think this is the case.   Diming it just adds to the noise and harshness.

Every modeler I've heard try to do this gets it wrong, similar to this video example. 
It gets the cocked wah part of the sound but the BODY of the sound is missing.
It doesn't include any of the chorusing or anything, just the distorted rhythm guitar sound.

Yes, part of the trick is to use the bass guitar as the other half of the rhythm guitars but I'm at the point where I'm going to start over. 


My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

THIS guy gets it.   It's a GT-1000 patch:



It's payware but he got it as close as I've heard on Boss gear.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

#13
I'm a little further along with this and a lot closer.  Everyone is hung up on the cocked wah but I've found the use of the compressor in the SY can approximate that without the harshess.   More as more becomes!  I'm hoping to have a patch up so people can play with it and/or edit it to be better.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

#14
OK first of all: before today I've never tried to play a Boston song in my life.  Seriously. I heard the songs on the radio a million times but.... I grabbed the first Boston backing track I could find online without the guitar and just half-assed the jam on top so you could hear what the patch sounds like in the context of a track. I don't even know what the real parts for the song are supposed to go like but it sound reasonable.  I just guessed.

I'm sure some of you could do a better job on the patch programming (and the playing!) but for me, the real key is what it sounds like in the context of an actual track.  Without the track it doesn't sound quite right.

The patch has CTL enabling chorus and CTL2 master delay.  You can use the regular guitar in or your GK pickup.  In my case I just used my Roland ready strat into the standard input with the switch on the middle/bridge position to fake a humbucker (I reduce the height of the middle pickup to make it work a little better).

I aimed to try and emulate the sounds of the Scholz Sustainor rackmount which I owned for several years and actual device has an analog delay with a 300ms top end delay which I've emulated here, the distortion is not completely perfect (it has a little too much top end for my ears) but this is a "revision 0.5" - maybe some of you can improve on it!

Merry Christmas!


My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

billbax

#15
Hi All,

Was impressed with the Tom Scholz patches by Tony Fuentes. It's probably the same case with a SY1000, GR-55 GP10 etc, by matching the parameter numbers - havent tried it yet but worth a try :-\  Re-amp it, and you might get it spot on!

Happy Christmas from London,
Bill


aliensporebomb

#16
With the patch I uploaded I tried to create the "semi clean" feature that was part of the rockman device that when you back off on the volume it cleans up but a little bit of distortion remains.   So "semi-clean" as on the original sustainor.  I left the chorus off on the demo I did, just the delay similar to the chorus/delay.  You can turn it on and you can also enable the wah (I left it in the signal path but off). 

Another thing I notice is listening to the Boston records past "Don't Look Back" nearly all the guitars have lots of chorus effect on them whereas previous to "Third Stage" chorus was employed sparingly or they had 12-string guitar playing clean.  Just interesting how a band's sound evolves over the years.  I know Tom was tired of blowing up Marshall amps because of diming them into a power soak for that first record and part of the second.  The Rockman was a good solution but most people used them with chorus and delay and the Rockman by itself just distorted tone with a little reverb didn't really quite get you that raging
Marshall thing though with EQ you could kind of get it. 

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

aliensporebomb

#17
Check this out - same patch I created but with chorus, and echo.  I used my Schecter C-1 SLS which is an archtop guitar with a powerful humbucker (Fishman Fluence Modern) and it sounds pretty close to my ears.  Just turn on CTL1 and 2 and you are good.   I thought about using CTL3/4 for various harmony 3rd/5ths but haven't done that yet.

My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.