New here from Oz...interesting project, hex pups, etc

Started by warmingtone-fgn, October 09, 2011, 02:59:38 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

warmingtone-fgn

Just discovered this forum while doing a bit of research for my new guitar project...ah, but this is the introduction phase.

Some might know of me as psw from the old infamous DIY sustainer at Project Guitar and elsewhere...I explored this thing for a long time (almost a decade) and built many different versions. I put together a telecaster that features this technology in a surface mounted driver and tiny circuit with no mods other than the wiring ans a switch to operate it...



My more recent creations follow this kind of thing, a bit of the old, a bit of the new, interesting functionality (like this kahler trem) and innovation (like a surface mount DIY sustainer) and good looks, excellent tuning stability, noiseless operation and a great range of sounds. On the tele for instance, the bridge pickup is a vintage FWRP while the neck pup is the latest SCn stacked design. The middle 'knob' is the sustainers 'drive' control, pulling on this control creates endless automatic harmonics.

Other guitars include an LP with 22 pickup selections (similar to the JP wiring) and a very clean look...It features a kahler trem also but adapted to be locking with the twist of rear screw. A unique feature is a set of rollersthat ensure a straight string pull on a tradtional Gibson style head stock.



My strat has over thirty pickup combinations and a unique HB pickup control knob...again without any obvious switching using three push pull pots and a nice clean look...



...

I seem to get the bug to make a new instrument every year, so now it the time again...

This is an unusual instrument. The 'future guitar' aspects of the thing is a tuning tailpiece that should be able to drop all the strings by a tone (it could be adjusted for other options). So, by default the tuning would be standard...with various combinations you could get dropped D, Open G, DADGAD and a pseudo baritone whole guitar dropped to D standard as well as other combinations. It is not really designed to be operated while playing, though I guess one could and in the lower tuning also operate kindof like a 'b-bender' on any string.

Another aspect is that this is an 'acoustic' guitar...quite capable of quiet practice...though the stings and neck are typical of an electric guitar. Electrically, it has both a piezo (with tuner) and an HB mag pickups that can be blended together.

Something that I would like to do is develop a kind of hex pickup for it. While I would love to drive a synth or more particularly get a midi out for transcriptions and such...that's not likely to happen any time soon...nor within my budget. This is ind of an unusual application though.

The idea is to be able to select strings to a separate output and process them to 'shadow' the notes being played on those strings. Originally the thought was to use a harmonizer to lower the lowest two strings to create a 'sub bass' for my solo fingerpicking style that this guitar is being built for. Then I figured, it might as well do all strings and be able to select which ones were active. One could use such a harmonizer to double the top strings an octave higher and achieve a kind of 12 string/mandolin effect. Of course, this 'shadow signal' could be processed in all kinds of ways, perhaps doubling higher strings with a faux sitar effect, or having delay on some strings and not others. It is envisaged that the signal will just be a simple mono out on this instrument, so it will not be able to process strings individually nor envisaged to being a solo sound, but to add to that of the main instrument, filling out the sound and creating more variety and range.

...

So...after thinking about a few options, I recalled that the original roland synths GR500...and I might have located info n this forum...that's how it found it...used tape heads for each pickup. With this n mind, I will see how this works to create a signal, pre-amped and processed. The effect is intended to be subtle to fill out the sound of a solo guitar, increase the perceived range and add variety...

Some may be interested in the aesthetics of the thing also, there is almost a 'steam punk' or art deco future/past vibe to the thing. A traditional looking, but slightly more compact arch-top acoustic seamlessly married to a fender strat type neck and an old gibson PAF in the neck position.. The controls are likely to be all hidden, the acoustic 4 band EQ and tuner set in the upper side, other electric controls (master volume, blender,tone and hex volume) accessible via thumb wheels and switches hidden inside the lower F-hole. The tailpiece is anticipated to have a deco like look and it's function hidden pretty much in standard tuning and fashioned from aluminium and highlighted with tortoiseshell. The back is a plastic that is a bit Bakelite like in a way...think ovation perhaps. While it will look and operate like an acoustic, it will have quite an extensive electronics component with several buffers required and preamping for the hex system if this works out.

So...while the guitar is in the works (it is substantially made, but working on the bridge and tuning mechanisms presently...it helps to work towards the future.

So any ideas on Hex systems and the the like or experience with such things, adapting cassette heads pickups or other options would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise, it just might be a fun project that will inspire others with their own projects and thinking. The guitar, like most I build, is kind of a 'concept instrument' but is turning out surprisingly well and increasing in complexity. I am thinking that it will be like an instrument from the past looking forward as to what might be...very much that 'steam punk' affect, but none of this is really for show. The guitar must be a great instrument to play, be in tune, reliable and work noiselessly and efficiently as well as be aesthetically pleasing. It is intended for performance for a demanding style of play and not to scare off the lay person or purist with a bunch of electronics and trickery...though of course there is a lot in it.

Otherwise, look forward to exploring this forum further, learning and contributing where i can...pete

Zummooz-fgn

Hi fellow Aussie  ;D .... and your very welcome aboard.

Wow thats some intro  :o 
Thanks ..... thats all very interesting & inspiring to me, as I've been making some guitars lately, some with Internal GK-3's.

Looking forward to seeing & hearing more on this  ;D

Great stuff !!
Cheers Zum .....  Sydney, OZ  :D
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

MCK-fgn

warmingtone, welcome onboard! Your work is very impressive and interesting. Can't wait to hear more about your sustainer approach. Cheers
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31267.0

Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31707.0

warmingtone-fgn

Thank you for such a welcome...

....

Hmmm....Sustainers

I'm not entirely sure where the sustainer is best talked about in the forum...there are a lot of categories. I got a bit burned by it eventually courtesy of some aggressive trolling in fact, so I generally help people via email but dozens of the basic design have been successfully made and the details ahve been pretty public for some time. I'd made a lot of different versions including hex ones, but I personally think that hte simple DIY version I developed is the simplest and best sounding anyway and very adaptable to different instruments and skill levels. It is the same principle as other sustainers, but there are significant differences in approach and philosophy and in some ways the end response which is very 'organic' and responsive to technique and touch.

You can find a gallery thread over at guitarnuts under my name 4real http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=music&action=display&thread=5318 and at project guitar http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=37370&st=0&p=388703&hl=blueteleful&fromsearch=1&#entry388703, the forum that used to host a lot of the work on this technology under the username psw. There should be a soundclip there of this guitar and the sustainer from years back.

There is so much to say about this, but the basic form I propose and has been independently tested and successfully built is a bit like this on my tele...



Googling 'DIY Sustainer' should bring about a huge amount of content, most linking back to me for better or worse. Some seem to give the impression that this design is their own, I give frely, but unless there are significant changes, I would appreciate credit...and many are not proven to work or to be practical regardless...some have some really dangerous advice IMHO. If really interested, I answer all emails.

The driver is the key to this, it needs to be very solid to avoid any internal vibration. I can lend easier and cheaper advice than this version which is set in epoxy and has no bobbin to save space. The core is ordinary steel (a 3mm blade), sitting on top of a ceramic magnet (the black part below, in this case supplied by sticking 4 craft magnets pole side up together) The end result is approximately 7mm high in this case and was able to be stuck to the scratch-plate with double sided tape. I made it clear not only to lok good, but to demonstrate what is actually in it and how tight and well potted one should aim for...but this 'advanced model is not recommended by people without the skills to do it, there are far easier ways but perhaps not so compact).

So, basically, the formula here is a well potted coil of 0.2mm enamelled wire, about 3mm in depth and wound to 8 ohms...this will be in the region of 160 turns perhaps and can be done by hand as the wire is relatively thick compared to what is in a pickup. I use a basic amplification circuit, generally using a basic LM386 design with a 100uF output cap, I can provide details to ensure it is stable, plus some kind of buffer or pre-amp stage to prevent loading of the other pickups. It will only work with the bridge pickup as the source (this is typical) so that if there are multiple pickups involved, the neck pup say, needs to be completely taken out of the circuit. Generally, it is easiest to take out the entire pup selector and reconnect the bridge.

A 4pdt toggle is generally required in this case and functions to bypass all pickups, select the bridge pup and turn on the power. One unique feature of my designs are that they draw no power when not in use and the guitar runs completely passively as you would expect without it. It does draw a bit of power though if used sparingly can work for months. The battery is an important part of my basic designs as it provides a limit to how far the feedback loop can go. Probably best that one not contemplate running other circuits from the same power source and to have easy access to change the battery.

The easier way to make the driver, and certainly for a beginner is to simply get an old cheap single coil pickup, remove the windings, block up the lower half of the bobbin to leave a 3mm space at the top and wind on the coil using PVA glue as you wind, tape and clamp everything tight and hide your work under the SC's cover.

Harmonics are generated by simply reversing the driver with a phase switch. The driver dampens the fundamental and will drive the next strongest harmonic in the harmonic series dependent on the location of the pup, the driver and the length of string from the bridge to the fretted note. All notes sustain ad there are a lot of great effects such as 'bloom' where the fundamental will morph into a harmonic. Harmonics are consistent, but not generally an octave above, usually a fifth or so.

The device works cleanly and at any volume...in the pic above of the driver, you can see the g string 'playing itself' for the camera, the guitar was not even plugged in LOL. So, is good for recording, lower volume work and some unique effects...or just to be sure that you can hold a note for as long as you may wish. here are other things that such technology can offer besides infinite sustain. I had planned a commercial version that was completely hidden and adapted strat like single coils for the purpose and was even smaller than the DIY version. A prototype was used and tested on this guitar that had till recently been something of a secret...http://www.guilfordguitars.com/the_goblin

Alas, the commercial venture was not really a practical proposition, but certainly the DIY version can work well if you are good at a bit of DIY, relatively cheap and offers a lot of potential for the tinkerer. I always advise that people build and test everything outside of the guitar (holding the driver upside down and well away from the pups) before attempting to mod a real world instrument.

...

Ahh...but that was then, this is now!

Hex pups...

I think I said that I'd be really interested in some kind of midi compatible device, if only to be able to play in transcriptions...but I am sure there would be a wealth of uses. However, for the kind of music I now am attempting, there really is little use for sustainer's certainly (except perhaps in a multi-track recording environment or looping scenario I guess). And of course cost!

But...I think something can be done all the same n the DIY realm to produce a valid signal from selected strings and use digital processing to 'shadow' the notes of the instrument and create more depth. So, various articles led me here on those aspects.

...

Tuners...

I'll be working on this device more today and during the week. It is a simple set of leavers that will slacken off the strings to a tone below. This lower note will be set with a screw, the default will be standard tuning. To get such a drop in pitch, you only need move the string about 2mm...you can check this by marking a string at the nut, tune it down a tone and measure the distance required. It does not seem a bit ask, the pressures are substantial but with a leaver, most things are possible. This will be a prototype but I have explored variations on this theme before. There is probably quite some potential for people to use the idea for their own uses. Interestingly, in the 'lower tuning' the levers could all be used for 'b-bender' like applications. In the default tuning, they are locked pretty much, at least in this version.

...

I am a great believer in the 'open source' model for such projects and welcome some criticism and suggestions and a bit of encouragement is always useful. Realistically, there is very little to be gained by the patent system, it is enormously expensive to have and defend for a start...and owning the rights does not actually 'make it happen'. I build for myself and my own applications, but many may well take some basic proven ideas and apply them differently to their own needs or take them further.

These projects tend to take a while and evolve in the construction. Generally I do things on the cheap LOL but the end results speak for themselves. This new project really has me enthused though, what started out as a kind of simple 'mash-up' hollowbody strat type thing has become quite a classy and innovative instrument so...that ups the quality control a little and so takes more time. Although deceptively 'acoustic' its now got more electronics in it to make it work than anything I've built so far. Still, being hollow...there is a lot of room for more if someone can find me a cost effective midi solution.

Again, thanks for the welcome, point me in the direction of where information should reasonably go and with the sustainer, happy to help via email to the best of my ability though I don't build them myself these days...eventually one moves on you know...there is more to life than endless sustain LOL


gumbo-fgn

Hi Warming / 4real...

Welcome to this one..we have talked in the past on GN2..   ;D

Some interesting ideas you've got going there..I'm working on a 'sideways' project at the moment (in design stage right now) where string signal separation is a big part of the deal...   perhaps we can share some thoughts sometime about that.

Your work and knowledge (as always!) is impressive...I hope you enjoy this Forum and what it offers..   a great bunch of people here.   8)

Regards from Adelaide!

warmingtone-fgn

Hi Gumbo...the future of guitar is now in adelaide  ;) there do seem to be a few people here from Oz...I live on Phillip Island, Victoria BTW

I'm happy to share ideas and feel free to email if you want to throw things about non-publically or refine ideas.

The better guitar forums have encouraged me to do a lot of things over the years giving a place to 'guitar geek out' and actually create ideas which I really do enjoy so that's all good. I had a funny experience with my, ahem GF the other weekend...she likes music but she has absolutely no idea about the technical things or why I'd be trying to do things...tuning, but isn't that what the things of the other end do? Oh, so that tuner in the side there, that will automatically tune the guitar when you push a button, cool! Is it really going to be that colour? Why is it made of plastic...etc.

I've come across little communities of players with all kinds of esoteric interests and ideas over the years. But for a long time I seemed only to be known for that sustainer thing, which is cool, but there were always other ideas floating around...

And this forums seems interesting,,,what is the future of guitar anyway. Something like the sustainer has been around for quite some time, the patents on such devices go all the way back to the late 1800's pre-dating the electric guitar (let alone the transistor)...yet you rarely see anyone make a lot of it from a playing perspective. Still, with some things, I guess that is not the point. I certanly get a kick out of creating something that is one of a kind, designed for what I would like it to do or just to work out ideas that have been peculating too long in the old noggin.

I've radically changed my approach and style of music and my current project reflects that. I've never really been into 'open tunings' for instance yet there are some wonderful music created with them. I suppose part of it is having to retune all the time and getting lost when someone has moved all the notes around. Having instant access to a range of tunings may well change the way I play with this instrument I'm building.

Interestingly, I have been aware how much audience expectation and acceptance is influenced by the look of the instrument. We have probably all come across acoustic purists or people who are aligned to a particular brand or image. I have been playing quite a bit on a strat these days and just the profile of it seems to bring on the 'sounds like knophler' (which is nice, if it were that true), turn it upside down and you might get the same thing with 'hendrix' lol. Have switches all over the guitar and I'm not sure what is expected there, but there is only so much one can do with six strings and one hand. I even had the experience with people liking the sound of my tele because they liked the colour blue...go figure!

This current project is my take on a jazz/acoustic instrument, but it really is an electric guitar and futuristic in so many ways. It's kind of a 'hot rod' philosophy I guess and building the things like sculpture or something.

Anyway, with some ideas it seems better to flesh them out a little before going to public perhaps, who knows. The bits of the site I have read (and was surprised in my research on things like Hex systems I was led back to this forum) have been very interesting and a lot of ideas that I am gravitating towards...some kindred spirits here I suspect, or at least might appreciate what I am trying to do. Kind of a factor of island life, a little too much isolation...the penguins here just don't understand  ;D

I'm not quite sure what a 'sideways' project is, but will be interested to hear more about it. I have quite some hopes for my 'tape head pickup idea'...it is old technology of course, but for the DIY'er could be very cost effective and not that difficult to make. As technology becomes a little obsolete (like cassettes) the technology becomes so much more affordable sometimes. With a little digging around and lateral thinking, I was able to easily find and order 6 matching heads for $8 including postage  :). There is plenty of room for it to fail, but at that price I'd be mad not to experiment with the concept...beats winding coils! This project is also the ideal candidate to do quite a few things too, lots of room between the strings and top to surface mount such things, custom made components so that I might as well include radical ideas as to try and replicate what is commercially available.

I'm not at all sure how these things will sound of course, but what Roland (et al) did not have access to back in the eighties was such affordable digital processing, modelling. I am pretty confident that they will make 'a sound', after all, that's what these things are designed to do, pickup variations in a magnetic field. How one uses that is a matter of the application. I have purposely looked at this attempt a little conservative (though the concept is growing even before it is built). It's a 'shadow' to the guitars sound on selected strings. At first it was only going to be on the bottom two strings, then I realised there were so many things that could be done with any string so it got extended again to that. Perhaps, I will like the concept so much I will use it to generate signals that can be used with a computer and audio to midi mono software on each string and drive VST's on a laptop. Instead of a shadow octave down signal, I will have shadow real acoustic bass samples LOL...or a string section on my upper string set. But for now, I'm looking to keep the thing affordable and simple and not fall too far down the rabbit hole and over-reach my technical ability to make something happen...a constant problem there. Got to be prepared to take baby steps...not to mention keep within affordability.

So, I could never have achieved what ever I have without the many enthusiasts out there that have lent their own experience and knowledge and ideas or just enthusiasm for such extreme 'guitar geek-dom' and make some of these things a working reality. The guitar technology is generally a bit 'conservative' (present company accepted)...Bigsby's are back in vogue, PAF this and that, the LP and Strat of fifty years ago defining the instrument.

With this project, I am kind of taking the idea of 'what if' we went back to the 40's and the electric guitar didn't evolve the way it did quite and developments expanded with different priorities. What if the guitar was still an acoustic archtop but the priorities were on both the electric and acoustic sounds through amplification, if altered tunings were more commonplace and accessible, if there was a desire for separate string outputs, if guitar building practices started to engage fully with materials such as plastic. This will be a project that will be expressing those things as a functional work of art. Along the way, perhaps such a thought experiment will yield ideas that will inform others ideas for their own musical direction. Interestingly, this guitar is something of what I am aspiring to musically...again, what if...

...

Here is a pic of last night sun down from out my front door...stormy weather...beautiful, but isolated...




warmingtone-fgn

Just a bit of an update, when things are more together and finalized I will post more about this project and things...but people here might be interested in teh HEX system which has had some interest and a huge potential. I did a spin off thread for it in anticipation and separate from the total project and can be found here at GN2...

http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=6014

It is using the tape heads from cheap car cassette adaptors which finally arrived today...



A very crude test shows much better response than I might have expected and that I was able to find heads that were smaller than those found in my own tape players that will more readily fit a more conventional guitar's string spread at the bridge.

For myself, I am proposing a very simple mono out of selected strings to shadow the guitars signal, sent to a digital pedal or other effects for processing and used subtly. A pitch shift down an octave for bass on the low strings, delay on the higher strings only...the possibilities there are enormous for my application. That the thins can be made to work might well inspire a lot of spin off projects such as stereo or hex outs for things like hex distortion...all the way to someone with more knowledge than I to get a decent midi out perhaps...on a budget LOL...

...

Otherwise, the project is taking a back seat for a little bit, but there is a heap of stuff that might be of interest to the 'future' guitarist...the 'trilogy' is in the mail for instance ;-) ... a nique appplication on what is at heart an acoustic guitar (despite the huge amount of preamps in it!) ...



This is a little bit of a teaser of what this thing is looking like...the black on the tail there is a mock up of the size of my adapted 'lap steel' trilogy..

Yes...that is a plastic 'ovation-esque' plastic back and sides and a fender style neck married to an arch top (for the straight string pull!). I finished my custom bridge design which might give a feel for the overall thing...



Intonated, piezo inside and made from polished aluminium topped with tortoiseshell....Im rather please with the way this turned out and will serve as the tone of the whole project...future-retro!

Elantric-fgn

#7
Look forward to hearing more about your results with tape heads


FWIW - in 1977 Roland used Tape Heads to build the first mag hex PU for the Roland GR-500




Cool to see my Powergig hex PU pics in this thread too
http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=6014
. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

warmingtone-fgn

Yes...I noted that Roland as the origin of the idea...the newer pups are not so different in principle I suspect (has anyone opened up a GK pup?)

After these initial tests, I was surprised at how well the tape head things worked, a few things to do domestically and the hex system will be the icing on a many layered cake on a bigger project that will take some time, but initial indications are very positive and will be doing a few experiments from time to time along the way. I am sure there are people out there who will see anything I make of them as an inspiration to run with the idea to a lot of interesting areas, who knows, perhaps I will be following them into uncharted waters  ;)

...

I'm also the guy (psw) from the PG forum behind the 'sustainer' project and in around spent/wasted a year trying to build a 'hex' like sustainer system back in 2004 (I simplified my ideas a bit and have helped dozens make the design similar to that on my telecaster there)...



Like the hex example above, I was able to get these things very small, but the amount of work in such devices and squeezing 12 magnets and 6 inductor elements (and in this example, 5 LED's) into a case only 5x5mm is a lot of work. Such devices are like pickups in reverse of course, and most of the sustainer things were capable of picking up signal (very low impedance typically 8 ohms like s speaker). There are a number of ways of creating such things.

...

Was that your post on the power-gig thing? Nice find! Making more conventional coils like that is an option too...I wanted to make the thing small, neat and affordable without too much mucking about.

Often if one is a bit of a tinkerer or wanting to explore ideas and have limited resources, it is good to look back to the early solutions like the Roland and think about where it might have gone if they had the technology we have now back in 1977 and so readily available.

For me it is the availability of so much digital processing power, as long as one could get a decent signal of each string (or in my case for this project, selected strings) out, these signals could be processed in any number of ways without the issues and complexity of getting into the whole midi and synthesis thing. Much the approach of say the Variax. I am sure it will happen, if not already, from people with the skills and the motivation.

...

The motivation for me in this project was/is a musical one. An instrument purpose built for a certain 'style' that could make use of cheap digital processing to double selected bass strings and octave below. I suspect some of that was looking at Charlie Hunter's instruments with 8 strings instruments and approach...



Which got me thinking that perhaps another way to go was to just take a signal from the low strings and double them an octave below into the bass range and use a conventional guitar. He also processes the strings generally, getting a clean bass sound and a swirling 'organ like' sound on the higher strings.

Rather than attempt to build some dedicated new instrument with extra strings and all, for me I was thinking a conventional guitar was more suitable that could extend the range low (like a piano player will often play octaves in the left hand) with a subtle 'sub bass' kind of thing, or to perhaps follow selected strings on melody or harmony strings sets with a processed sound. I had recently explored some audio to midi software and perhaps I might arrange something for recording that could use a selected string out as a midi/VST trigger.

I'd been listening to Pat Metheny's latest solo work too on his Baritone which is tuned low (to get the bass range) but a variation on a Nashville like tuning, with the two centre strings tuned an octave higher. He thinks as the three pairs of strings kind of orchestrally and arranges his solo work around this tuning with the melodies typically played on the top two strings and higher harmonies in the middle set and the bass very low on the lowest strings working his way up and down the neck quite a bit.



I embarked on this solo guitar thing in earnest this year, so early days, but was playing it on a strat that sounded and looked ok, but I was coming across a bit of 'traditionalist bias' I suppose. The area is dominated by acoustic players of course others perhaps jazz players perhaps and the 'look' of the instrument seemed to have some influence over the way things were being perceived. When I considered alternate tunings, I could see all kinds of problems (not the least that all my guitars made use of floating tremolos and had incorporated that into my 'style') so re-tuning to anything tends to cause havoc.

So this project is something of a personal 'what if' take/re-invention on the instrument and I guess something of a swiss army knife. It works surprisingly well as an acoustic guitar (though soft and lacking in the bass end)certainly good enough for practice; it has an acoustic like string spread for the right hand, but an electric like neck for the left; it has an on-board tuner; it has a piezo out; it has a jazz like magnetic out; it can be retuned instantly to 18 different tunings or so on the fly (potentially mid song); I've discovered it can even do string b-bender like things by pressing on a string behind the bridge; it can shadow selected strings through a hex system; an instrument that is ergonomically extremely comfortable and light; and has a 'look' that will satisfy the lay audience which can often be purist (it does not scream 'the new' like a GR707) but pushes the boundaries in a more subtle way without compromising the basic guitar.

I think eventually I may well get into midi as having a sampled string bass follow you around or other sounds subtly mixed in, not to mention the ease of transcribing material if it could be simply played in, but the cost of that is beyond any budget I don't have and the complexity and reliability of such a system is beyond my DIY capability. Originally, I was going to put all the controls inside the f-holes and there is no shortage of space inside the guitar for electronics, but at this point not likely to happen, but perhaps one day.

In many ways, what I am doing is a low budget version of many of the guitars featured in this forum (like the recent offerings of gibson) with a particular style of play in mind and a defined application for myself that can make use of such features. Personally, i've not been convinced about gibson's approach on building on their traditional designs and packing it with this kind of novel technology and that they have skipped a few steps in the evolutionary process before it is quite ready, but that's me I guess.

The proof in any of these ideas is not so much in the tools, but in the use that is made of them. This is something that came home to me with something like the sustainer project, you can have a string that sustains forever, or can auto generate harmonics...sustainers or the ebow have been around for quite some time, yet with very few exceptions, such sounds have not found acceptance or application musically, even in the hands of some amazing musicians. There are some amazing technology, yet guitar synths and auto-tune guitars have not found a 'musical' home or innovation really. As, lets face it, primarily 'guys' perhaps, we are attracted to the tools and the 'power' that they promise, but perhaps the promise is more than the fruits created with them...just a few thoughts there. Guitar players and audiences are in general a bit conservative in so many ways.

But is all interesting stuff and does push the boundaries and this forum a great idea for those that are interested in pushing the boundaries. But I see even here (as in most forums from time to time) a real admiration if not awe for the kind of solo guitar antics of a guy like Tommy Emmanuel that I find hard to ignore. The same with a host of others that are doing some really interesting things in that 'solo style' like Tuck Andress for instance...




I think audiences and guitar players alike are spell bound at what a guy with an amazing technique can do on one's own with a guitar...not that I am anywhere near a tuck...but the aspiration is there and the traditional guitar is an amazing instrument in of itself, I'm looking for an instrument that can perform for my efforts to play it...

Elantric-fgn

#9
Quote(has anyone opened up a GK pup?)

Look over here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4600.msg31025#msg31025




QuoteWas that your post on the power-gig thing? Nice find!

Yes - Complete details here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=32294.msg243375#msg243375
. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

warmingtone-fgn

Wow, thanks a lot...I love seeing inside these things...much as I expected there, tiny little HB's. One could make a similar kind of thing out of 'chokes' but it is tricky work and if you have the room as I do, or are prepared to make a custom guitar or hack into an instrument to fit them, I am suspecting that the tape heads will work equally well to at least produce a decent signal...

I see that people are hacking/cloning the circuitry which is cool and am looking out for such things for the future...this guitar would be a great candidate for such tech some way down the line and I can see many uses for it.

For now, and even as things go down, financially things are a struggle and it would be hard to justify the expense of the rest of things to run a midi system or where I might play it other than potential in transcribing and recording kinds of things....perhaps I am not savvy about the newer systems, but I am assuming that you need a bit of auxiliary gear besides the pickup install to run into a computer say and drive VST's, or have I got that wrong? Certainly a whole VG system is not in my future or similar. On this project, or if I take the best and improve the concept on a subsequent version, who knows....hmmm

So, be very interested though if someone were to clone or put together a viable DIY version and I think that the 'tape heads' is a cheap and decent solution for some on a custom/customized instrument.

...

I am pretty sure I found this forum purely from the "power-gig" hack thread, thanks. Interesting phenomenon that whole gaming angle. I try and learn keyboards occasionally with synthesia http://www.synthesiagame.com/ which is very cool, but until midi guitars are more common, I'm guessing there won't be an equivalent too soon.

...

In the fingerpicking solo guitar world, this guy offers a huge amount of material to play around with that is generated from a midi guitar for solo guitar (over 2000 songs) http://www.lickbyneck.com/ and free!

The guy who created it is also a dab hand at playing a triggered drum kit with his feet at the same on his gig, in this clip also playing an octave bass...



Can't see me dancing about in me socks like that, but it is amazing what some people can do out there....


vanceg-fgn

You make a hex sustainer - and I'm there.  I'm really, really looking for a hex sustainer which is NOT the Moog system.  Let's be in touch directly.  I hope to be in OZ in mid March and would love to see your work.

warmingtone-fgn

LOL...well, I spent a year on them 8-10 years back, and not likely to go there again. In fact, other than helping people with the DIY sustainer by email, I've not made my own versions for 3 years now. My personal sustainer guitar is my tele...



and for a bit I did investigate a commercial more developed version, the prototype of that concept used in this guitar...

http://www.guilfordguitars.com/the_goblin

But the cost in development, let alone commercialising such things is difficult enough and for lots of reasons, just don't seem to fly. There are already commercial sustainers and there are plenty of people out there with no qualms about altering the concepts ever so slightly and calling it their own, too expensive to patent ideas let alone protect them...all that kind of thing...same old story.

Musically, I really didn't/don't use the things that much myself, though it is a lot of fun to have and to play. But the sustainer thing doid become all I was known for and did take things over far more than I'd like. Happy to correspond via email and such, and if in Oz and coming to see the penguins where I live out here now, I'd be happy to show you some of my guitars...but on the hex sustainer, there is not much to see I'm afraid.

The Hex Moog sustainers came as something of a surprise to me when it came out, but aside form a lot of 'spin' and the cost of the instrument when it came out, I'd not really seen any in use or get too many first hand reports, perhaps I might read more about them here for interests sake. They are a very difficult conundrum, I'm struggling with an 'off the shelf component' hex pup solution which is not going to well just yet and not too inclined to waste too much time and money on them when there are synth systems about that cold suffice and do more for my purposes. But I tend to tinker with things anyway and not given up quite yet.

The basic DIY sustainer for those inclinded to DIY things is a viable an decent sounding device, it is not quite what one might hope from a hex system perhaps, but it is certainly polyphonic and in that way, does have some uses that are unique to that...many years back when I finished my tele, I recorded an improvised clip to a drum loop and added bass, while one take direct to the computer with headphones and with a clean sound in audacity without editing, there are many places where there is the illusion of two instruments...the clip and description can be found in the thread about my telecaster here...

http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=music&action=display&thread=5318

I am interested in the potential for the solo guitar for a hex system to greatly extend the range and other aspects. The guitar I am building at the moment has a range of interesting 'future' looking aspects and going well...but these things can take a few months and I only do perhaps one a year...it's going to take a lifetime to learn to play it to it's full potential though!

As I say, emails are welcome and I can lend some knowledge o f the work I have done perhaps if someone were to be wanting to DIY such a device on a purpose built guitar, less likely that I would build them for others as the cost could get extreme...or more likely I would have to bear them...I lost a bit on that prototype regardless of the celebrity involved but new that going in and some things do require a speciality guitar, and those things add up. Working from a distance is also quite a hurdle, for that project I had to replicate the essential elements of the entire guitar, then send the working wired electronics to the builder...and even then there were understandable issues...but it worked out in the end and was a rewarding project, I'm very happy with the way my own sustainer guitar worked out, but one is enough, and the commercial version that converted a strat single coil was a good one, but the funding and motivation is not there I guess.

Nice to meet you and though a small niche forum, everyone hads been very nice here and some great productive work about that I had not been aware of till I started researching this new project...very cool!

vanceg-fgn

We're very happy to have you here and I look forward to being able to correspond with you further about these ideas. I'd like to show you some of the guitars I have in design and build at the moment, as well.   Hex sustainer is surely my #1 desire in expansion of my own guitar work. 

More soon as I need to run off at the moment.


gumbo-fgn

Hey vanceg!

Maybe we (Zum, warmingtone and I) need to organise a combined barbeque when you're out here   :o

I suggest we all meet at warmingtone's place..... Zum and I can handle a 5 hundred mile drive each...   8)

.....it's alright, I'll tell w/t later... ;)

warmingtone-fgn

You know, I have a BBQ I've yet to use and this was the view this evening from it...been a bit stormy waiting for the summer... and the lease wont be threatened till about july LOL...bit of a drive though gumbo!



I was going to go to bed but as the dining table has the iron out and bits and pieces and a bit of a mess, did some more tinkering and have come up with 5 viable (to different degrees) Hex sensors without winding a coil...LOL.

A lot of these have come from the hex sustainer project experiments as a sustainer driver is just a pickup in reverse in many ways. Of course what I di is DIY, so you know...DIY means do it yourself. But, my skills are limited so generally these things are doable and cheap. One reason I stopped the true hex sustainers is they were getting really hard to do and slightly expensive of course...but there are many reasons.

Fortunately though, most of these things can be applied to a hex sensor. I am not entirely sure what people here might want from such things or that they would meet your expectations and requirements...but for certain they produce a signal of a pretty low impedance, but a fair signal none the less. Making the reverse is a bigger problem really, sustainers carry a bit of current and that would be like six ebows in there, or at least that is how I'd be thinking of them If you find the original ebow patent (I forget the inventor now, but could look it up perhaps) you will see as well as the device we all know and love, he included a hex version 'just in case' (some of which is a bit faulty in conception) but it had a cool kind of six keys behind the bridge to sustain individual strings. Much like what became the 'gizmotron' which in turn viortually bankrupt 10cc's godley and creame for all their efforts... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gizmo ...there is a lesson there...hmmm (I remember playing one as a kid, going home and making a single string version out an electric toothbrush with a pick jammed in it LOL)

Anyway, there seems to be many options, at least that I can see, to make various types of hex sensors should one want to do a bit of fiddly work and have an application for the things. Some will of course work better than others and ideas that do work could no doubt be improved upon. The ability to sense an individual string I imagine would be crucial to most people's idea of a hex sustainer. However, with sustainers they are putting out a fair bit of energy and you have at best 10mm between strings,,,so hardly any space there to provide separation physically. That means some very tricky and inventive electronics I would think, I have ideas on that, but not the skills or patience...nor motivation as I think the simpler ones are pretty darn good...to go back in that direction.

All these synth things are kind of new to me, I suppose i had not kept up due to being way out of my price bracket (though I see the new roland is coming right down) and I suppose feeling that some of these things are a bit of a gimmick. But I do like to see some innovative or at least inventive guitar designs and enjoy that process when I do do one. Every one I think might be my last, but there tends to be another concept struggling to get out eventually. I tend to look at the things like a 'concept car' but in recent times upped the quality quite a bit despite conditions being a little difficult and money tight. The things often end up costing a bit of money too, but I spread the things over months and pretend it isn't happening LOL.

It certainly i an interesting forum and community here and some interesting concepts both commercial and home brew and ideas floating about. My own project is a kind of personal instrument with it's own aesthetic and mainly made of cheap spare parts I have left over. But it is surprising what one can create and I am really keen on the instrument and where it is headed, plays and looks. I might be going a bit far throwing so many ideas into it, but it seems to be working out...


It might not look like the "future of guitar'...more like the future as a guitar player from the 40's might have thought it to be...but has some elements that I have thought about for many years and am finally getting to express. The plastic back alternative materials thing, the piezo/mag combination, the multi-tuning capabilities, the traditional looks but modern functionality...and even the hex idea as I imagine it at the moment (of course if I find a roland synth, I might build that in instead, discreetly LOL...thumb wheels in the F holes perhaps)...there is something of a steam punk aesthetic in this one, but with a touch of quality and class and irony. But one of the coolest things is to be able to play it anywhere as an acoustic guitar with out an amp and be a comfortable ergonomic guitar without getting too weird in the looks department or turning off the traditionalist.

I am particularly please that this time, I have a far clearer idea of exactly what music I want to play on this thing. I think I have and I've seen many people look for features and such, without imagining clearly what it is that they are trying to achieve...and in the looks department what image such an instrument might convey. But I must say, that building instruments like this takes away a lot of playing time and have gotten really distracted lately hardly playing at all though I have a couple of hundred transcriptions to work on and a whole new playing approach to master. I'm not anticipating doing another one for a while, though perhaps in another year I might make a 'spare' or do this one even better perhaps. But then, building things is a form of creation without the pressures of time and if you are going to build something, you may as well follow your heart...otherwise you'd be far better off saving for the thing you really want. I'm hoping that when this is finished, I will have satisfied my itch to build for a while. But, sharing it is also a great thing and I think that many ideas may be of interest and be adapted in interesting ways...some of which may tempt me again! Shame there is no money in it LOL.

I love the guitar of course and it is the worlds most popular instrument and portable too...but the future, I really can't tell, the guitar community generally is in perpetual retro. My take on that was to go all the way back perhaps and in doing so, squeezed more ideas and 'stuff' than anything else I have attempted or contemplated. Shame I couldn't get a trem on the thing too, all my other guitars have them an I will miss that a bit...but then, you can't have everything...unless you just make more guitars!

Realistically, the instrument's future directions are largely in the hands of the music played on it and what people aspire to and what catches on. But hen, I am sure I am not keeping up with people unique ideas and I love a bit of design work no matter where it might be headed...so be keen to see any of these ideas and instruments and what people are woring on. It is a shame that in the internet world people are so far apart...but since I choose to live on an island these days, I'm getting used to the isolation!

(Mid march will be a great time to visit Oz though where ever you might be going...still be some summery heat, just turning towards autumn, easter hols might see a few kinds and life about. If coming to Victoria, especially if a family in tow or wanting to see a bit of wildlife or the surf and such, it is only about 2 hours drive out of Melbourne. There are perhaps even more spectacular drives, like down the ocean road, and of course there are all the usual places you might want to see...but if you want to get away for a few days...or even as long as one can as I do, it is a special place. I moved from inner city life here two years or so ago, and I really do avoid going back these days!)

warmingtone-fgn

Hey Ho, another day, another bunch of 'hex's'...

So, as I researched options and tested a few, most surprisingly with some success...one wonders...

Is there a market or demand for such things, what would one expect from such devices? In this, I am talking just the pickup itself.

I may have found some novel approaches that are cost effective solutions and give excellent string separation, quite a few of them are hum-bucking as anything single coil will just as much require a bit of pre-amping for audio and if there is any noise that too will get a lot worse.

At the present time, I am liking a device that in the crudest form is approximately 10x10mm and the width of the total string spread. Each sensing head is about 8mm wide with spece between then required. The further from the bridge the bigger the signal, but the intention would be to mount such a device much like a GK like string spread I guess. The audio is understandably high in treble being so closed to the bridge, but could be toned down a bit with some filtering in the preamp. The signal still requires perhaps more of a boost than I have been giving it, putting out about half of a normal guitar pickup with the preamp being used.

It has been early days with actual experiments (though I am drawing on past work with the sustainer project and other things) but some of the components and magnets can be tricky to source and often require a minimum order or quantity to get and I certainly don't have a need for a lot of these things, there is plenty of room for a bigger version.

I was for instance able to get a low but Hb signal from an approach that could concivably be built into some kind of modified bridge HB ring...electronics are getting very small these days. It does require delicate soldering under a powerful magnifying glass and so falls outside the range of average DIY...I don't recall the particular components I happened to have around, but I do recall that they were tricky to get...puting things together always takes more time that one might be willing to pay for adequately though.

What applications would one want from such a device, what other people have worked on devices that could make use of such a capacity out there?

Some of the technology used has been 'secret' for almost a decade and I am a little loath to go to far into it in public...but there are obviously a lot of ways to do such a thing now I have had a chance to play around with things a bit. Be keen to know what people think and would love a 'brains trust' to workshop applications and ideas for what one might do with such a device. I have at present about  different options to explore, only a few are really able to be miniaturized still smaller if that is advantageous ...

For my own project, though i'd like things to be stealthy (likely attached to the bridge itself) I have a lot of room to play with between the top and the strings. For my application, I'd likely only require a fairly simple single pre-amp. For a true hex out, one would need at least a preamp per string/sensor...for something that might provide a signal suitable for a synth, perhaps a bit more circuitry and controls for which I'd likely need help. Given what is involved, using a GK may well e the better option if that is the application.

Anyway, would be interested...

PS...vance, having gone this far, we should get a correspondence regarding the aspirations for a hex sustainer some time perhaps. There is some potential to use a similar kind of technology to build a sustainer driver but cross talk is at times an issue. It is unlikely that I could or would replicate exactly what the Moog does either. But, perhaps one could aspire to something like 6 ebows in a guitar and smaller, but unlike moog, using miniture components to allow the use of pickups of choice, normal strings and all that. Unlikely you'd be able to use anything but the bridge pickup as with a normal sustainer, but all that would take a lot of R&D and  experiment as well as some outlay in sourcing and acquiring components and I can not see if ever becoming a 'product' nor could I afford to 'protect' such a device with a patent due to costs...so a conundrum there...but I have thought about the problem a bit and there may well be a way forward if the invention is there to make it happen some how.


Zummooz-fgn

Quote from:  gumbo on October 31, 2011, 03:36:42 AM
Maybe we (Zum, warmingtone and I) need to organise a combined barbeque when you're out here   :o

I suggest we all meet at warmingtone's place..... Zum and I can handle a 5 hundred mile drive each...   8)

I'm good at BBQ's, being an ex butcher  :P  think a lamb on a spit would suit perfectly with the view he has .... I'm in  ;D
Think I'll catch a plane thou 'gumbo' .... beat ya there  ;)

Hey 'warmingtone' I'm a complete novice to what you are doing.

But .... OH MAN am I totally enjoying reading all your posts that you have posted ...... Brilliant !!
Have some Karma ....

Your really making my brain hurt  ;D
Top Stuff !!
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

warmingtone-fgn

LOL...a bit wild and stormy today...but the other weekend the view was good...



Well, I am glad you guys are liking this, it keeps me on track to document my progress and share with you guys...needless to say my GF does not understand...but then, I don't live with her so I can 'guitar geek' all I like with you guys... Also, lucky I can speed type and there is a spell checker  ;)

I am scoping out synths and midi type things, but funds are short and you know, I don't think that will actually do what I want it to do, marvellous as the things they can do are.

...

And, I have not stopped working this evening and shoring up what might be a final and very novel device. To make it will mean importing some parts and speciality magnets and of course that means I ahve to get materials enough to make a few...several...

That means I get one for myself and may be able to offer them to others to try out should they choose...but wait till they are fully tested on my guitar before getting to excited.

These things are a modification of a design developed in 2004 for the hex sustainer (Vance may be interested that I am revisiting that side of things)...lest anyone think that I can make stuff out of thin air and without many, many hours of experimentation....trials and errors

These things were always kept 'secret' and likely I would keep them that way, set in epoxy and all...it would be very much preferred that it stay that way as patenting such things is totally out of my budget range and pointless really as they are so cheap...but it is the product of my own work and I have been stung before.

But regardless...I'd like to run one possible concept...I will be building one for my project and application but will allow for things to be arranged with a fair bit of flexibility. They are tiny, so postage will not be difficult and I will likely need to produce a jig and a mould to build the prototype anyway, so that will allow replication a lot easier.

...

Right, so you may notice that I said "they". This is a unique design and I can build them as separate string pickups...

So, imagine if you will, a pickup that is approximately 10mm long, 10mm wide and 5mm deep, hum-cancelling with a single nickel blade in the centre across the string.

There is very little if any string pull, though the magnets are very strong (for their size) rare earth...it is something I used to describe as 'magnetic balancing' I guess, there is not a single pole up as in a conventional coil/magnet arrangement. For the test version, I used ferrite but I think I can get it smaller and stronger with a better and more expensive array of magnets.

I've looked at some avian suppliers and I am pretty sure I can get the component costs down quite a bit which will help and confident enough to order in some bulk the speciality magnets required.

Generally you would want to mount these things close to the bridge and to the string. Roland suggest 1mm which is extremely close...I think I can get a reasonable signal a little further back than that...subject to more testing with the finished things, but that is my impression from testing so far with the design.

By making the things in separate string elements, it would allow them to be arranged in numbers as necessary...say a 7 string or odd instrument where you might want a separate out for each string.

By making them separate, one could mount them to something a little 'flexible' to accommodate any bridge radius and for different string spacings (my project has a slightly wider spacing (more like an acoustic). 10mm is as small as I can go for now), but that is less than a typical string spread and the things can be arranged as required. They dont seem to be too sensitive to alignment, though too far off centre and the may well pickup some of the next string. I did make something that was even smaller as a proof of concept...but that is a really tough thing to do, requiring a lot of magnification and steadier hands than mine most days...conceivably something could be fitted into a pickup ring with a lot more R&D. As this design stand, it could be that someone might wish to work it into a conventional Hb slot next to something like a rail pickup but that could be tricky as the hex things do need to be close. Such a scheme though would allow for the things to be fitted into some fairly standard guitars...the wiring and circuitry tends to take up the space. Potentially one could build them into a bridge too, hard to say, but say on a tremolo guitar where you'd want the things to move with the bridge and stay a constant distance from the strings. Most of these concepts would take some DIY or guitar building savvy...as I don't have an application for that, I am unlikely to pursue it without a lot of incentive...but I can see it could well be done.

On the bottom of each pup will be two connections. These could be wired to switches as I plan to do, to select strings with a simple switch and run them in parallel to a separate out via a mono preamp. Used in combination with the guitars conventional pickups. One could do a similar thing in stereo...or perhaps one could build a mixer and pan strings as one might choose as in a 'Ripley guitar' and such. I am only designing the pups at present and not an electronics expert...more a 'ideas guy' at best. I have done a bit of research in the last two weeks though, and here and elsewhere seen some really interesting things...hmmm

The things are a very low impedance, but are working with a generic pre-amplifier though not as loud as I'd like or the host guitar. With new parts I will try to improve on that as the parts I am using are left over from the sustainer thing and not really for this purpose. The signal though is pretty good. I am using a pretty primitive rig and a few bare wires and lack of shielding, but I was getting a bit of handling noise touching the things...similar to a piezo thing. I suspect as these things are sensitive that may always be there to some extent but one hopes that building something more solid, shileded and protected will help. I also am running  the things within inches of my laptop and the valve amp only 2 feet away...this is a test of fire and I think they pass that pretty well

The intention for my project, is to mount this off of the bridge itself (an unusual guitar though) and include a pair of 3x mini DIP switches clear of the strings on either side. These will select which strings will be 'on'...such as just the bass strings...to all strings. The guitars pickups of course will be running all strings, so this output will effectively 'double' the sound of the guitar on the strings selected. This will all go to a small mono output and from there to a digital pedal for processing as I choose (pitch shifting, etc). Other than the pickup selection switches, there will be a volume control for the hex system separate from the guitar to mix in the hex signal or adjust on the fly...quite a basic scheme. If one were to do a full Hex output, it would probably be best to have most functions out of the guitar after internal pre-amping where it belongs.

I will try and draw up some kind of concept thing so you can all better picture the proposal and of course take pics when final construction is done on these elements and my application. I am doing this work now because I can't work on the guitar at the moment till some parts arrive..in fact I am missing it since I can't put strings on it and it was fun to play the thing for a few weeks there.

...

Anyway, I'd be keen to know what people think about such a design or any suggestions there, expectations for what one might want on such a device or must haves. How confident people might generally be about wiring up such things (it is hard to make things generic when everyone instrument is different (another reason for making the things separate, at least as an option), any aesthetic ideas for those technically minded, problems or bugs in the existing technology that I might want to address...all that kind of thing.

Any encouragement is appreciated, though I will be doing it myself regardless, cause I get that way and am a little stubborn/obsessive once I decide to do something like this. There may well be improved versions beyond the 'beta' prototype thing of course, but one has to start somewhere...another reason one does not want the technology to make them on the net so someone with more money will alter tiny things and make them in quantity or worse. At least by posting here early, there is dated evidence of prior art that would likely prevent anyone preventing me from doing my own thing. The need to source and buy in some quantity some unusual parts and modify them and arrange a 12 magnet array should be enough to put most people off given that I suspect there is no real 'mass market' appeal...but then I am new to this and the world is a big place.

I doubt that this will be any kind of 'business' probably only make a few dozen sets at best being hand built and there would not be much money in the things...but we will see, they may become a critical component in someone else's plans and you don't want things too look too DIY from my end. You would likely need some DIY skills to put them to use as well, though I will be testing out a few circuit ideas I suspect and might be able to find something, perhaps in kit form, that will run them for different applications.

...

As I will be ordering some things....hmmm...and developed the concept a little further than I had previously...and I say this wiht some trepidation as I realy, really don't need them or a lot of hassle...however...

Hex Sustainers...are these really a desirable thing...I was really surprised by moog (especially the price) and anything I would attempt as always, would be radically different. There are some significant problems and I really stopped pursuing it back in 2004 for a far simpler but effective thing. However...what I could conceive of is effectively teaming this kind of pup at the bridge with a similar kind of device at the neck for each string. I doubt it will do 'string damping' and could not at all be sure of the 'separation' or even the power consumption of running six things at once. Potentially you would get better polyphony (thought the simple ones are polyphonic, there is a sound clip about) It could mean a fair bit of circuitry, my sustainer circuits are about 1x1.5" but running six of them say...well...that's a fair amount of circuitry, wiring and space to account for and there is no way to get that out of the guitar. I'm not even sure how one could control it...hmmm. Or quite what one would want from such a thing or expect. But it is inevitable that while working on these things and revisiting that 'past' to make them, I'd look at the applications in reverse. Personally, once i had a decent one completed I didn't really find a musical use for them for me...but I am sure there are many people who might well have a different vision and be interested, at least in teh concept. Due to my isolation down here, it would be extremely difficult to predict how such a thing would work or install it across the waves. They can be very temperamental to install and different guitars react differently. I had problems (though as it turned out, not mine) with that TM Goblin project a few yesars ago and had to buy a whole cheap testing guitar set up just the same and wire everything up to be implanted in the USA. The problem truned out to be with Seymour duncan forgetting to magnetise the poles in their pickup LOL...but nearly gave me heart failure working that out remotely and with a deadline to work on. The whole experience was ok, as a one off, and proud of the results...but it cost me and in the end, lead no where...DOH!

ok, enough musing for this evening, time to sleep...any comments and suggestions welcome...it will be an interesting time ahead building and testing a design...I really did not see me doing this a month ago and I still have this guitar to finish so it might take a while...later then, enjoy the view, where ever you may be!

Elantric-fgn

#19
Put me down as a beta tester / and buyer for your efforts.
. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

MCK-fgn

We the people of Northern Hemisphere are really angry with you for posting for that photo... Remember the ozone hole above your head? You need to stay in doors with your curtains pulled shut.  ;D ;D ;D  Just kidding. Hope you enjoy a gorgeous spring, summer with minimal bush-fires etc. All the best!
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31267.0

Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31707.0

Elantric-fgn

#21
QuoteWe the people of Northern Hemisphere are really angry with you for posting for that photo...

Well - i'm lucky to live in a part of North America where that view is familiar nearly 365 days a year

http://classiccalifornia.com/VirtualTour/index.html

. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

warmingtone-fgn

Thanks guys, this forum is really encouraging of these far out ideas and small enough to support some esoteric notions.

I know, but the beauty of your own surroundings can be missed if you didn't have it. I'm not sure that I'd want the snow and all that and am perfectly happy that the climate changes form hour to hour some days...back to rain this morning.

The USA is a big place though, I'd love to go there some time though it is unlikely...many vast differences. I like to take such pictures to remind myself what is out there for the many days I do forget to open up the blinds or venture into it...but then I am perhaps selective. Rain, dark clouds and fog this morning over a stormy sea...so it ain't all sunsets and pretty surfers...

...

Meanwhile, ordered some parts and will see how it goes. I may well want to get some practical feedback on these devices so if people have the knowledge application and the means to do it and the things don't cost too much, I will likely want to let them out of the house, so to speak. There are always quirks and although for my application they may well suffice, for a more general thing, they are likely to need some refining and development that one can't do in a vacuum on one's own. Besides, I just had to order 50 rare earth magnets that are only really useful in such a thing, at 12 per six sting set...that is a few devices that might as well be used. Other components are also required with a similar number as a minimum order. So, going out on a limb with choosing one strategy there and running with it for now and obviously there are going to be 'spares' LOL.

It is an exciting thing to be working with this stuff again, though it has it's frustrations...it has been a few years and I've moved three times since I last got this far into electronics R&D and researching things this hard. Can be frustrating but rewarding, plus it is drawing on past work that was otherwise wasted, so good that this is being of some use in a different application. Just shows why I've carried all these  weird bits and pieces around all this time too, justifies that hoarding of stuff and carting around junk from move to move as well.

Fortunately no one asked about cost yet...they should be economical but being hand built, could take a bit of time. I tend to try and keep an eye out for such things as this is a lot of work and expense to make just one for myself....but I am the kind of guy that is going to do it anyway if only to try and prove that I can LOL...or not! Likely though a few of you guys are going to have ideas and skills that well outstrip my limited abilities for putting these things to use and what broader applications that others might be interested in. To me, it seems (and I have only been exploring things a few weeks) that much of the sticking point for a lot of ideas is in the pickups themselves. Interesting things coming out of hacking GK pups and others making hex conventional pups out there. So, a new compact alternative might well ahve some legs and wider uses than I can think of and some appeal.

That you guys provide the forum and community to foster this kind of thing can not be underestimated in such an endeavour...without it, nothing much would happen or people would never know about such things or see the bigger picture beyond one's own aspirations.

I'd still like to know what you guys would want with such a device and capabilities and what expectations and such you might have for them. There is lots that I have not thought of I am sure and I can only really look towards doing something practical for my own application and so things might become really specific solely to my needs where they need not be any compromise to make them have a wider use. There are limits to what one can do, but the design concept seems pretty flexible and more will be clear as things actually materialise (no doubt some frustrating problems along the way too of course)...

but thanks again for the encouragement and I am glad you enjoy the pics, or not. I will enjoy the summer as it seems to do me a lot of good, get a deep tan and go out in the surf and a heap more people about from all over the world (being a tourist place that goes to sleep much of the year)....later then, first thing inthe morning here, so who knows what the day might bring... pete



MCK-fgn

Quote from:  Elantric on November 01, 2011, 12:44:44 PM
QuoteWe the people of Northern Hemisphere are really angry with you for posting for that photo...

Well - i'm lucky to live in a part of North America where that view is familiar nearly 365 days a year

http://classiccalifornia.com/VirtualTour/index.html


Ok. Now I'm angry with you as well. Happy?  ;D


PS. One of the best 360s I've seen. Very nicely done. Thanks for sharing
Dark Fire Initial Check Out  - Q/A
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31267.0

Caig DeOxit - Buy now before you need it !!!
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=31707.0

warmingtone-fgn

Cali as I always imagined it to be...well, with the help of 'baywatch' which would you believe is running daily on our new improved digital free to air...beautiful, nice light...palm trees...

I got a bit of a view but out of the way of most...down the road and round the corner is the surf beaches, but there are a lot of places that few seem to go...whcih suits me fine...



...

Ah, but this is a guitar forum isn't it  ;D

Look what just turned up in the mail...whooo...the 'future' is manual auto tuning...



These hipshot trilogy's are one seriously well made solid piece of gear...fitting the thing onto an acoustic, a whole new thing. Mounting internal bracing without the aid of a long armed child or something is going to take some mastering too. So, that means for a bit, the project is shifting back to getting the strings back on it, but at least that will allow a platform for the other areas of exploration...