My Project for 2011

Started by Zummooz-fgn, December 25, 2010, 09:35:23 PM

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MCK-fgn

Love those diagrams from SD. They make it so clear & easy. If you're going with full size HB pickups you might also want to take a look at the following product from SD. Makes coil split and phase reversal options so easy to wire and manage. In use the switches are a little tiny but still manageable.


http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/new-products/seymour_duncan_9/


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Zummooz-fgn

 ;D Thats it !! ;D Thanks heaps  ;D

Oh man....a picture tells a thousand stories, that just answers a heap of Q... earlier.
Found one in Canberra http://www.dwmusic.com.au/product/product/?product_id=201&category=56&brand=&sort=&page=21&q=/
After searching for ages. Dearer than oversea but probably about equal after mail costs.
Noticed it states it is for (Carved Top Bodies) thou, where as mine will be a flat top.

Do you think these SD - T shots will still fit on flat top ok ?

Then that'll mean I can use this wiring...
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_1v_2t_3w
And above SD Triple shots, then can have choice of standard / parallel & split coils......Brilliant  :D

Now know....Holes needed, type of Hum pickup mountings, switches needed, pots needed, wiring etc etc

MCK if you where near by, I'd kiss you  :o .........Second thoughts, may-be NOT !!.

Thanks buddy, your a lifesaver your advice, direction, help & support is just fantastic & very very much appreciated.

Cheers & thanks  :D 





Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

MCK-fgn

Hey no kisses necessary...  ;D  Glad to be of assistance thats all.


Took a look at the SD Tripshot I have in my parts box. Its made of some type of plastic which would sand well. There is sufficient space between the edges and the circuitboard. I think you can use them on a flat top guitar.


All you need to do is buy some nice sanding paper, find a nice flat hard work surface and glue the sandpaper on this surface using a removable paper glue that only provides some traction. Then simply put the SD Tripleshot down on this surface and slowly sand away the curve built into it. Should be a 5 minute job but go slow and careful.


That is assuming SD does not make a flat top version of course. A quick look at SD site did not give me an answer but you might want to write to them about this if you like.


All the best.
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yzept

Zummooz, in the world of all possibilities what functions do you want the pickups and controls to provide, Strat/Humbucker switching, separate tone/volume control and so on?
If you can provide a wish list spec it may be possible to get exactly what you want, without too much drama.
There are usually a few things going on:

What you want it to do/be/sound like
What you need it to do/be sound like
how you describe that to others
How others understand what you tell them

I have a few things I would like to suggest but really don't know what you want and I'm not sure your going to get it because I don't know what "it" is.

It's your project, we all want you to be happy with how it works out. Forget about the technology for a bit and tell us how it should be when you're playing it.


MCK-fgn

Further to my earlier post... I just noticed that the unopened TripleShot box I have has  type indicator which says :


Trembucker (flat)
Les Paul (arch top)


In my case the Les Paul box is ticked. So it is confirmed they have a flat top version. You can probably order this direct from the US on eBay or something.


Regards,
Kerem
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Zummooz-fgn

Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

MCK-fgn

Ok. Another one bites the dust. So did you choose your pickups? I hope you've seen the following. If not take a look please :


http://www.aqdi.com/cgi-bin/database.cgi
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Zummooz-fgn

Yep been on here last couple of days.  :D cheers
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

Zummooz-fgn

Quote from:  yzept on January 01, 2011, 07:52:58 PM
What you want it to do/be/sound like
What you need it to do/be sound like
how you describe that to others
How others understand what you tell them
tell us how it should be when you're playing it.

Ok......Sorry I should have called it an experiment more than a project.

As I have good reliable Guitars that I don't need to pull apart & change things & I certainly don't have boxes & boxes of spare parts
or any other guitars just lying around to pull apart to learn all the in & outs of & types of pickups etc & what they sound like & can do.....
As stated in post#7
Thats why I want to try this, to learn something that I don't know !
Yes I know there is Ebay to buy guitars & bits & pieces. I want to start from scratch.

I know there is a world of possibilities, always has & always will, thats why I pondered between SSH & HXH,
I'm sorry, your right I should have been much clearer.  :-[  :-[
But i'm just trying to learn different possibilities & the technology as well. As I just don't know & didn't know, until advice / links etc here.

**What you want it to do/be/sound like**
Well I wanted a locking tremolo (never owned one) but used & if it fitted, GK3-Kit to drive VG-99 good, if not (to bad) my bad luck !
V shaped, with a decent quality neck, as I think the neck is a rather important piece to the puzzle.
Playable with comfortable playable neck, sound good with available different pickup settings for different tones etc.
Anything between heavy rock - funk - jazz & able to go heavier for riff's / solo's & still able to get the quieter side.
(OK the pickup selection to me was the most confusing) ie: pickup types, how many Vol, Tone, which switches.
There is just so many choices & setups......I didn't realise  ???
SSH 1st thought would be something different sounding to anything I already own.
But now know the HXH is what I need on a V shape....But with different type of humbucker pickups, than my other guitars. 
So very sorry to all those scratching their heads to my questions & queries.
Hope you didn't want me to name a certain artist that I want it to sound like ?

**What you need it to do/be/sound like**
Same as above !!
Would like the GK-3 in thou, to drive VG-99, with use of tremolo.
If I knew right now!! that this would fit, I probably wouldn't be so concerned about which type/ setup of pickups.
But still want decent pickups anyway, just in case.
Have an option now of changing Floyd with ghost piezo if GK-3 not viable. (did not know this before)

**how you describe that to others**
I'm trying my best to describe the things i'm either looking at / thinking of or finding out along the way.
Sorry again if i've been vague as & all over the place on issues.
But i'm new to this side of things, as stated very early on & just trying out something different & learning as I do so.

**How others understand what you tell them**
Well this is the hardest part communicating the way we are, i'm sorry again for any confusion, frustration etc etc

**tell us how it should be when you're playing it**
Smooth playable neck & fret board, quality sounding pickup sounds, between heavy rock , funk , blues
to the quieter with availability to switch to something heavier for riffs / solo's..
With a good quality tremolo, for lots of fun.....
If GK3 in, the using of that though VG with the tremolo.....more fun

Some of above I didn't know until I started original topic...

I have taken all advice / help / direction / links from all those that have replied & for that i'm very grateful for.
Without all of, I just simply would not know  ??? ???

I'm at 90% at what i'm going to use now, which brands, type etc......Just so you all know !

My apologies to all that i've given a headache too & any frustration at reading my postings.

Sorry, cheers & thanks all.  ;D
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

MCK-fgn

Quote from:  Zummooz on January 02, 2011, 02:05:30 AM

My apologies to all that i've given a headache too & any frustration at reading my postings.

Sorry, cheers & thanks all.  ;D


Not at all. I'm sure your journey is going to be very interesting to follow and informative to boot as well. Can't wait to hear you playing it! Keep it up! New year karma to you.
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yzept

Thanks for the thoughtful, detailed reply Zummooz. I have a guitar with a similar pickup and tremolo setup to what you are proposing and it is really versatile with great metal tones if needed, The only practical difference is the switching/coil splitting was done with a push pull and a custom five way which is easy to use but overly complex to wire. The custom 5 way is also an absolute nosebleed to source from Japan. The tone is quite sensitive to string types and this has a much bigger effect than I'd anticipated. Currently using Elixirs as the top end does not change as quickly, there are probably much better string options but I have not had a chance to try them all yet. It sounds great through a Fryette Valvulator if I am using effects. http://www.sfdamp.com/valvulator.html
If you do the bridge route in in Sydney the GK3 will fit with no drama so all good there.

The EMG 81x 81TWX setup would be quieter and possibly have a little bit more sustain because of the weaker magnets but would not give anything like the range of tone you would have with your SD setup. One thing I have noticed is how the pickups are mounted makes a lot of difference, springs on the screws was a lot nicer than foam under the pickup. Fibre or brass tube cut to length over the screws to provide a more direct coupling to the body also is worth trying, it made a bigger difference for me than changing pickups. Shielding the electronics with foil or conductive paint is also well worth the effort, the paint seems to affect the tone the least, aluminium a bit more and copper the most. I think its just the foil+adhesive damping resonances, they all do a similar job of shielding and getting rid of noise.
You have done a fantastic job working through the options and making choices that will deliver what you want, especially given the restrictions the V body imposes. It took me weeks to really get my head around it and then a few months to make it happen. I thought in the beginning it was going to be simple but now understand it's incredibly complicated. Just knowing what matters and why is like nailing jelly to the wall when the technology and choices are constantly changing.
Hope it turns out even better than you anticipate and thanks for sharing the adventure with us.


Zummooz-fgn

Thanks 'yzept'  :)

Some valuable interesting information & tips in their once again, why I'm going with HXH is this dose seem a little easier for my 1st go at this.
Later on after this project I might even buy strat (ebay) & hack into that for SSH setup as stated earlier, with a Kahler tremolo.
After a lot more learning of things, plus would be something different again.

Thought I'd go these pickups stated earlier, SD Hum's, neck '59 Model,4 conductor & bridge Dimebucker 
Both are 4 conductor, so with the triple shots TS-1 seems a little easier to me than using push / push pots.
Or trying to do the 5 way switching for SSH setup. Stumped there !!  Hence the HXH setup now.
I don't play live, so if its a bit of a fiddle with the triple shots small switches.....no embarrassing situations would arise. 
Have been on here & other similar sites to get more of an idea sound wise.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/audio-samples/humbuckers_and/

Have researched about the differences between 'Humbuckers' & 'Tremolo Humbuckers' & there doesn't seem to be
to much difference either way. Some say yes & some say no but most seem there isn't that much difference.

That 'Fryette Valvulator' looks interesting & all other types of amps etc I've seen on this site that others have & use.
Amazing the types out there (& the new ones on the market) & the different types people use.
But I don't use amps as such (I do have a couple thou) as I just record into Logic in a home / studio setup, with decent monitors.

Also realise now how much harder it is to get something here in Aussie, when freely available in USA & other counties.
A simple fact of supply & demand, Australia population 22,517,523 million-----USA population 310,571,363 million
Whats that about 13 usa to 1 aussie. Least our A $$$ are in parity with US $$$ at the moment.

Don't know what's harder at the moment.....doing this project or taking my dear 89 & 1/2yo mum grocery shopping each sunday. ;D 
Get a headache every time, may-be......I should have a drink or something 1st  ;)  Oh well thats life !!

Thanks for your support, encouragement, interest, advice, links, tips & help, I am very thankful for all of this....
I did hit you 'yzept' with some 'Karma' the other day, after some very interesting & helpful posts from you.
Now just gotta go back & give the same to all the others that I haven't done as yet.

Just hope I can show all something nice at the end of this & playable of cause !!

Cheers buddy & thanks to all.  ;D

;D Nailing jelly to the wall.....Ha Ha Ha Ha.....classic quote  ;D
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

vanceg-fgn

Quote from:  2010Limited on December 26, 2010, 08:07:50 PM
Can you give us a link showing your work, and possibly provide some rough pricing?  I'm interested.

I'm working on a website which should be up by the end of September 2010 ;-)
But seriously: I am working on a website for my Audio/Video systems and Content company...and I'll have a section up there for my ergonomic guitar design work.  MCK showed you some photos of one of the instruments I've designed, I can send you or post here some photos of a couple more. The two new instruments that are in the works are taking a little longer than I'd hoped so I won't have photos of them for a while now... but will surely post when I have a chance.

I'll PM you and we can start a conversation off-list.

Vance

Zummooz-fgn

Hi.....Just an Up-date!! ......   ::)

Ok I've taken a good hard look at this from all angles & stood back to think things though,
have researched & searched while amongst a pile of papers & have made some changes.

Some reasons...
If I went ahead with my final thoughts on all bits & pieces that I finally decided on using, from different suppliers.
1) I think it would end up being a waste of money....  why   ???   ...could have just bought a new guitar.
Something like a PRS that already has EMG's & a Floyd Rose.

But thats what I don't want to to !      I wanna make one !      To learn something completely different for myself !

2) My main reason, for a change on some of the more quality / pricier items is that it's a V shaped body.
I've been test running guitars of different shapes recently & found that V guitars are.....

NOT so comfortable when playing on, adjustable guitar / keyboard stool or armless swivel chair,
which is the usual way for me in home studio, (do standup thou) gotta strrrrrrrrrrrrreeeettttch them legs  ;)

Now know why vanceg is doing the styles / shapes he is doing.......brilliant  ;D

So these are main reasons of selecting a different approach to this, as I don't want to & probably don't need to
put all the better quality stuff ie: Moses Graphite Neck, Floyd Rose Locking Tremolo, GK-3 Kit etc
On something that will be played, but...probably no so much, because of the V shape.

Still going ahead to make one... will give me something to learn from & fiddle about with.
Will have a different Tremolo with a different style / type of Neck.
Just these 2 items that I've quoted, have slashed the $$$$ heaps, making it much more acceptable for a first timer.......me.  ;D
I'll wait & see about a GK-3 Kit on this, when all is at least sitting in front of me......That could always go on next one !

Thats it ....still onward & forward, just with some slight changes.......Cheers  8)
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

MCK-fgn

V body is not going to work for everyone. Certainly not for me. Also given you play at home most of the time (presumably sitting down) I see this is a good point to reconsider. I agree with you. First project guitar, get something low cost like the Squier you got for your GK3 and hack it up doing what ever you like to do. 0 resale value but learning will be priceless. Don't forget, there is no right or wrong. It all serves a purpose at the end of the day. All the best.
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Zummooz-fgn

Help......  :-[
Dose the one earth wire from a Tremolo (claw) only need to get soldered onto a Volume pot ?

As all else is earthed via output jack !

Thank you in advance   ;D 
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

Elantric-fgn

This is the String ground. It will be more effective if you solder a longer wire from the Trem Spring Claw directly to the Ground on the 1/4" Output Jack.
. . . the future ain't what it used to be . . .

Zummooz-fgn

Thanks E for last bit of info....have some karma  ;D
Here is something I'm getting conflicting reports of thou  ???

Copper lining of pickups cavity & control cavity !
I know what it is, & how to use.....But do I need this done ?

Most I've seen on this topic seems to relate to Strats etc, with the using of pickup guards.

Is this only needed if there was crap earthing or for stopping / reducing interference ?

I know some would get interference with certain type of things ie: Live set-ups / fluo lights etc
I do have Powered Monitors, iMac etc etc
So just wondering if this is needed to be done !.....thanks again.....Cheers  ;D
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

MCK-fgn

StewMac has a paint you can apply in the cavity to provide the shielding. I find it easier to work with compared with the copper tape.
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hoopyfrood

I would recommend that if you can you should screen the cavities and silver or copper flake paints are a good way to go. I have an old Les Paul Recording that has no cavity screening and I have found it to be very noisy in rooms with dimmer switches or low energy light bulbs. In all other rooms it is very much better which to me proves the need for screening. When I get a chance I'm gonna address this issue but in the meantime I've banned the wife from buying L.E. bulbs (I've also been told that plasma TV's can be noisy to).
I don't make mistakes..........I thought I did once but I was wrong.

MCK-fgn

Look what I found...


http://www.makershed.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MKSGFV10


If you ask me this is as good a price as one can get for a guinea pig to try all your ideas on. Cut, carve, sand, proof of concept work and then commit using expensive stuff from Warmoth etc. Just an idea
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Zummooz-fgn

Thanks MCK

But....I didn't want an 'Airfix Model Kit' as such.  ;)
Something you just put together !

I'd rather do my own wiring (thats pretty simple anyway) & a personal finish, with decent pick-ups & Tremolo.

I have all bits & pieces in front of me right now   ;D
Have attached Triple Shots to pick-ups & all soldered.

The good'ol Dremel Tool has had some very good use, (was gunna use a chain saw) then thought, better not......yet !

Had to move wires already attached to Triple Shot pads, so I could get to solder to the ground pad.
Here is a sneak peek  ;)


Soldering done...


A sneak peek at the neck...Smooth as silk....NO even smoother than silk !!
Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

MCK-fgn

#72
Apologies if I offended you. Wasn't trying to. Project looks great!!! The fret ends look very very nicely trimmed on that neck! I bet it will turn out to be a winner. You should post more teaser shots! Keep it up. You're now in the deep end.


Edit - I see the p/u on the right side came with machine screws for the height adjusters vs regular thread on the one on left. Hope the heads are looking similar...
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Zummooz-fgn

#73
Hey MCK you know me  ;) ..... Not offended at all  ;D

I can't believe you spotted that, about the different screws, MCK
& not notice where I melted slightly with soldering iron on the left pic wire  ;D

Ha Ha.....Had already been changed to identical ones, as myself noticed the same thing, once I turned them over & placed into cavities.
But stupid me posted 1st close up pic taken of this, before I had changed.......sorry about that.....but well spotted.
Got so many pic's taken. I'll end up just sending a link to the project.

The Neck is Maple with Maple Fretboard, finished in 'Vintage Tint Satin Nitro'.....Oh man is it smooth as....
The Frets are SS6115 'Stainless Steel' .107'' x .052'' (kind of jumbo-ish frets)
Bevelled edges to 30% & they to, are smooth as, no sharp edges !
Has a Graph Tech TUSQ Nut installed......

Only just noticed this, after taking closeup shots of the headstock, that there is a very, very small mark / nick on the face of headstock.
Bummer...it's not somewhere hidden by Truss cover or tuners.....Have contacted supplier.
My eyes must be crap even with reading glasses, it can't be seen, only with a magnifying glass or close up camera shot.

No real drama thou, as I know what I can do, if needed to be.
The longest part to this project will be the finish on body, which I'll be taking my time on.

Electronics all done & ready to insert. have got grounding all work out. ie: Cavities, Tremolo.....But it's still a jigsaw-puzzle.

Cheers  ;D



Q... What kind of advice can you give me ?   Tommy Emmanuel's reply ....

You move your hand Up and Down that long bit and the music comes out of that Big Black Box behind you !!

MCK-fgn

Sounds great! Can't wait to see it. I'm sure the nick on the neck is no problems at all. When you put the strings on it probably will get even more hidden from sight. You're working fast by the way. Impressed.


Ah yes, I think I have a good eye for details. Happens all the time. Good fun. I was giving you a break about the melting... Point out what you can replace and fix and not fuss over spilt milk you can't unspill! :-)
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