Joyo Cab Box VS Nux Solid Studio…

Started by eUphonic, August 29, 2020, 02:16:03 AM

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eUphonic

I've found no comparative review about these IR loaders, so here is my take.

I won't insist on their specs: Google is (y)our friend. Let's just recall what I've said elsewhere: the Joyo stands up like a glorified Mooer Radar, with easier interfaces, added MIDI and a "thru" output + a separate output for headphones. It's also 50 bucks more expensive than the Nux.


Let's comment other differences, that only direct experience can reveal:

-the Joyo has way less headroom than its concurrent, even when the Nux is set on -10dB. It's obviously designed to work with guitar level signal chains while the Nux can handle higher input and output levels.

-the latency seems higher with the Joyo. At least, that's how I understand the impossibility to capture the onboard cab IR's of the Joyo with the Nux...

-unless there's some kind of "black magic" sound processing going on with the Joyo? As a matter of fact, a (pleasing) 3D effect can be heard in IR's used with the Joyo and is not quite there with the Nux, as if Joyo had embedded a really slight reverb or short delay permanently enabled. The Nux is smoother sounding, more detailed and more realistic but a wee bit less "open" than the Joyo, even with strictly same IR's (more about this difference below). The Joyo is conversely a tad more grainy to my ears, although various online demos had suggested me the contrary...

-the power tube emulation seems more realistic in the Nux when it comes to frequency response. Now, the Joyo can be corrected by its very efficient parametric EQ...
and this time, it's the Nux which appears to add some reverb/short delay to the sound. IOW, this effect present in Joyo cab sims is somehow present too, in Nux AMP sims. To be honest, I'm not sure to hear it as such: it's the demultiplication of single impulse responses by the amp sim of the Nux which mainly makes me think that Nux has included a kind of reverberation in their power tubes emulation. My frequency analyzer shows this effect clearly (although I won't post the related pic below. Later, maybe).

-the two units don't handle the same IR's in the same way. Frequency responses are close (as expected), albeit the Joyo is less precise in the bass / low mid range and brings more noise above 15khz.
But THD clearly differs, as illustrated below.


As a matter of fact, I'll close this testimonial with various screenshots, showing...

*From pic 1 to pic 3: how Joyo and Nux power amp sims compare to real tube amps. Please, note that the 6V6 and EL84 pics are imperfect comparisons since they involve "whole" amps (excited from guitar inputs to loudspeaker output) while the IR loaders model only a tube power section. The pic about EL34's is more realistic: the Marshall used for that has been measured from the input of its power section, to its loudspeaker output "heard" in two different ways.

* From pic 4 to pic 6: how the two devices reproduce the sonic captures that I've done (with the Nux) of a Celestion G1265, a Fane Classic and a Jensen C12N, all miked by a SM57... That's where the differences of distortion appears clearly in the lowest line - with a THD rising high enough to dominate the frequency response of the low mids, in the case of the Jensen emulated by the Nux... I wonder if it's not an artefact due to my testing rig, which might have been overloaded by the precision of the Nux emulating the Jensen – knowing that the Solid Studio gives to this IR a way more detailed/complex low midrange and a greater dynamic range, exactly like my "real" C12N sounds less compressed than my UK loudspeakers.

* In pic 7: how using the onboard EQ of the Joyo allows to "match" partly a capture done with the Nux... This pic involves a Vox AC15, captured as a whole amp by the Nux, and that I emulate with the response of its original cab (originally captured by the Nux) + the Joyo EL84 section + the onboard Joyo parametric EQ correcting the whole thing.
For the record, this 2d emulation seems to be realistic when compared to the frequency response of the first one but it actually sounds more bass heavy, as suggested by the bump in the THD curve (lower blue line)... That's where THD measurements reveal why they're not totally useless - and why the Nux wins IMHO when it comes to realism, even though I still find the Joyo musically satisfying and more versatile (especially when there's no preamp between guitar+FX's and IR loader: the EQ of the Joyo is precious in such situations). :-)

eUphonic

Update - The latency is actually quite higher with the Joyo Cab Box than with the Nux Solid Studio...

Enough to be annoying in some cases: if I plug a Line Out coming from a tube Power amp to the Joyo, the IR is noticeably delayed compared to the real cab...

If I put the Joyo as a cab AND PA sim between preamp and power amp, things get better... but only if I don't enable the onboard Joyo PA simulator and EQ: each stage of processing logically slowers the response of the unit. So, I've to use IR's modeling in "one shot" the PA+cabs of my tube amps, as "profiled" by the Nux (!).

Once that done, I obtain very comparable sounds from these two configurations:
-Joyo between preamp and PA, with an IR modeling in a single move PA+cab;
-Nux between PA and cab, with an IR modeling the cab only.
In THIS case, the difference of latency is "compensated" by the signal path inside the amp and the two IR loaders sound in the same time than the real cab...

Guess I'm lucky to see the planets aligning like that... but I find potentially useful to share the info: the Joyo is too slow to be used after a PA IME/IMHO. it's definitively designed to come after pedals and / or a preamp.

The Nux can handle the "hot" signal of a PA feeding a cab... but I've not tried it with a master @ 6/10: if I ever do that (when live gigs will be possible again), I think that I'll put a DI box with a padded output between amp and Solid Studio.

FWIW... Side notes that I write here because it might be useful for other musicians (?).

mat_171

Hi! Did you notice a high pitched noise in the NUX? I bought it yesterday and while I'm testing it I've noticed some noises, so I record all 3 outs and all of them produce this surrounding 13KHz noise tone. It is higher in amplitude in bypass, but it is with any IR on, different cabs, mics... I just plug my Epi Casino, middle position all volume and tone up and record the 3 outputs. No change with different power supplies, cables, power outlets... Seems worse with the XLR DI OUT. I then tested all my pedals and none of them produce a similar noise, only more or less noise floor.
Some critical reviews in amazon confirm other units with this high pitched noise. Did your NUX produce this also? Did the Joyo does any noise similar to this?
Fig1: Frequency analyze from NUX TS OUT in bypass pointing the high pitched noise around 13KHz.
Fig2: Boss LS2 in bypass just for comparison.
Thanks in advance.

admin

#3
For lowest noise, try removing the USB cable and be sure no computer is connected during use.

Other strategies to reduce noise
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2078.0

eUphonic

Quote from: mat_171 on November 06, 2021, 10:08:42 PM
Hi! Did you notice a high pitched noise in the NUX? I bought it yesterday and while I'm testing it I've noticed some noises, so I record all 3 outs and all of them produce this surrounding 13KHz noise tone. It is higher in amplitude in bypass, but it is with any IR on, different cabs, mics... I just plug my Epi Casino, middle position all volume and tone up and record the 3 outputs. No change with different power supplies, cables, power outlets... Seems worse with the XLR DI OUT. I then tested all my pedals and none of them produce a similar noise, only more or less noise floor.
Some critical reviews in amazon confirm other units with this high pitched noise. Did your NUX produce this also? Did the Joyo does any noise similar to this?
Fig1: Frequency analyze from NUX TS OUT in bypass pointing the high pitched noise around 13KHz.
Fig2: Boss LS2 in bypass just for comparison.
Thanks in advance.

Hello,

I've not noticed the same thing with my own NUX and Joyo units but I've met the "high pitched noise" issue with various pedals and not only digital ones...
Digital switching transformers and daisy chained power supplies can do that, for example. Personally, I cure such problems by using a "good" 9v transformer for each pedal or by feeding my pedals through isolated 9v outlets (not necessarily expensive: the "Joyo ZGP noise blocker" is cheap and does the job IME).

Of course, + 1 about what our admin says. Each connection to a PC can bring noise - and the use of a direct box with audio transformers can be necessary to avoid it.

Anyway: good luck in you debugging attempts...

mat_171

Thanks for the suggestions, really informative link, I'll take those into consideration with my rig.
Unfortunately, I've tested with only the NUX in the chain with different power supplies, one with all outputs isolated and the one from a Digitech Jamman that has the ferrite choke similar to one of the ground loops videos suggested with similar results. The last test was with no computer connected to any power outlet in my house, no lights on or plugged, only the guitar, power supply, NUX and Beyerdynamic DT770 from the TRS OUT. Still notice this high pitched noise.
I'll try to get a replacement or a Joyo Cab Box if this works best with my rig, despite more latency than the NUX, or save for an Iridium.
Thanks!