60% off Eastwest MIDI Guitar Series Worth It?

Started by Chumly, July 21, 2020, 11:44:39 AM

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Chumly

Like many of you, I have a Fishman TriplePlay and I would like to expand on the available sounds when connected to a laptop or iPad, without doing a ton of configuring on a per patch basis.

I am considering buying all of the Eastwest MIDI Guitar Series (they are on sale) but I am not sure if they would be the best use of $398 to expand on the available sounds, or whether I would end up finding that a good portion of them were redundant / useless given what comes with the Fishman TriplePlay, or perhaps is available for lower cost in some other way, without too much configuring on a per patch basis.

The developers of the Eastwest MIDI Guitar Series say they are optimized for the Fishman TriplePlay and that would be nice if they are truly plug and pray (well as close as you can get).

Much thanks!
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

TG

I haven't bought these, but I did download the demo, and found it only ok, and like you was wondering if the full blown thing was any better.

Personally, if you already have an iPad/iphone I would explore that world of apps, some require nothing for a good plug and play using a CCK, and you'll have plenty of change left over from your $398!

I like Korg module, for a sort of rompler of sounds - loads of expansions inside the app and little or no problem setting up - PnP!
Similarly try Galileo for organs, or magellan as a pretty powerful synth, I find both play nicely.

I think synthmaster one, on iOS and in the triple play app as a VST is pretty amazing, the synth is deep, and you might want to get into the presets and mess with them...

I suppose it's all down to the sounds you want to play really... if it's specifically orchestral stuff then Eastwest could be the one, but for other sounds the price put me off and I looked elsewhere!


Chumly

#2
Good ideas and yep I have a bunch of apps on my iPad that can be triggered externally from my TriplePlay.

I also have Jam Origin MIDI guitar 2 on iOS, and it works surprisingly well, and allows direct triggering of my iOS apps with no external hardware at all.

What I have not done is to do latency / accuracy comparison:
1. TriplePlay externally triggering iOS apps
2. Jam Origin MIDI guitar 2 for iOS internally triggering iOS apps
3. TriplePlay internally triggering VST's on my laptop
4. Jam Origin MIDI guitar 2 (Windows or Mac) internally triggering VST's

Alas I do not have Jam Origin MIDI guitar 2 (Windows or Mac) but I do have Jam Origin MIDI guitar 2 (for iOS).

I wonder which would work best?
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

admin

#3
Quote from: Chumly on July 22, 2020, 12:47:26 PM
Good ideas and yep I have a bunch of apps on my iPad that can be triggered externally from my TriplePlay.

I also have Jam Origin MIDI guitar 2 on iOS, and it works surprisingly well, and allows direct triggering of my iOS apps with no external hardware at all.

What I have not done is to do latency / accuracy comparison:
1. TriplePlay externally triggering iOS apps
2. Jam Origin MIDI guitar 2 for iOS internally triggering iOS apps
3. TriplePlay internally triggering VST's on my laptop
4. Jam Origin MIDI guitar 2 (Windows or Mac) internally triggering VST's

Alas I do not have Jam Origin MIDI guitar 2 (Windows or Mac) but I do have Jam Origin MIDI guitar 2 (for iOS).

I wonder which would work best?

While Jam Origin does a respectable job

The Fishman Tripleplay remains superior - lower latency and fastest  tracking   

TG

Agreed!
In both scenarios, it's noticeable.
For live use TP works much better, IMO, for studio, if you are prepared to edit etc, jam origin does a stand up job

Chumly

Jam Origin's Midi Guitar 2 on tour with ELP Legacy, Yes, Asia & John Lodge   

Paul seems satisfied with Midi Guitar 2, I'm thinking my penchant for gear exceeds my musicianship by some fair margin!





I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

TG

#6
I stand corrected! :D very cool.

I will add that when you are layering, that latency doesn't quite matter as much...at least to me...
(I love having a string pad with a slow attack - midi sound appears when you hold notes/chords, and depending on the settings almost acts like a weird reverb...)

Possibly an appeal for the jam origin software is that there can be less setting up... (but still depends on the software to some extent)
I think that empirically TP is still faster than jam origin, i'm sure there are posts on these wonderful forums here that show that, and I think you can feel it when you play, but that does not mean that you cannot play with either one - clearly from the vid you linked, you can smash it on either, if you've got the skills!
(just make sure you don't have monitor hand positioning on in the TP software on if you are gonna do any tapping like in the video!)


My keyboard playing friend has recently updated his laptop and interface, and in doing so has managed to reduce the latency in his system, and his playing is just as ridiculous (fast and accurate)! He said feels like he has to adjust less when playing with the band, but had got used to doing so on his old system, its just easier now, back in the days when we played live, ah, those were the days!   ::)
I reckon its the same with any midi guitar, you have to adjust to play live, and the argument for TP, for me, is that there is barely any adjustment to do!


Also, I love this:
"I'm thinking my penchant for gear exceeds my musicianship by some fair margin!"
ALWAYS! ... and hopefully both inform the other!

aliensporebomb

But Paul!  It's not a MIDI pickup!  It's analog hex!   UGH!

That being said, he didn't really play any chords but for his chops it sounds pretty darned convincing.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Chumly

#8
Right! If it's good enough for the likes of a pure monster like Paul, you have to ask if such differences between the Triple Play and MIDI Guitar 2 are truly meaningful. In any case, I have sometimes blended the swift / articulate / predictable timbre of the guitar with some sort of guitar synth pad.  My first guitar synth was the Casio PG380 in 1988 and using the internal sounds (especially the more percussive ones on the higher frets) it was very playable. 

I used the PG380 on many gigs with my solo act and three wireless transmitters (one for vocal headset, one for regular guitar, one for the PG380's onboard sounds) and for the time I was rather unusual for a solo act in Vancouver BC Canada (well I like to think I was).

I am just an antique now (not likely to ever gig much), and what used to fill up a 1/2 ton van, has certainly shrunk and improved.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

ampedup

I tried the jam origin demo version a couple times and couldn't play anything clean on it. I don't know how people make it work. Now that I have the tripleplay set up right I've been having a lot fun with it, it works pretty good. Definitely easier than me trying to play a keyboard.
I was interested in the eastwest keyboards, wondering if they actually work any better since they claim they are designed for midi guitar. There's not a lot of useful patches in it for me for what it costs, so not sure it's worth it. I mostly like old school keys like clavs, rhoads, b3's. I have plenty of synth kind of stuff.

Chumly

#10
I've had no insurmountable problems with MIDI Guitar 2 but playing cleanly without sympathetic ringing-resonance-noise, etc. is important.  It really helps to mute unneeded strings, plus gently palm mute at the bridge (I don't mean as you would for metal) plus stop sympathetic ringing at the headstock and at the bridge (especially vibrato bridges).

I like MIDI Guitar 2 due to simplicity and ease of use plus everything's on my pad iPad Pro plus I can use any guitar. I try not to fret about whether if it's better or worse than my FTP, but instead use it for its strengths.

You're right, there does not seem to be a big user base for the Eastwest MIDI Guitar Series despite some good press. Limited user base often leads to the dreaded abandonware.

Awards for EastWest MIDI Guitar Series

Guitar Player "Editors' Pick Award"
Electronic Musician "Editors' Choice Award"
NAMM "TEC Awards" nomination
Sound On Sound "Best Software Instruments Award" nomination

I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Vaultnaemsae

Quote from: Chumly on July 21, 2020, 11:44:39 AM
Like many of you, I have a Fishman TriplePlay and I would like to expand on the available sounds when connected to a laptop or iPad, without doing a ton of configuring on a per patch basis.

I am considering buying all of the Eastwest MIDI Guitar Series (they are on sale) but I am not sure if they would be the best use of $398 to expand on the available sounds, or whether I would end up finding that a good portion of them were redundant / useless given what comes with the Fishman TriplePlay, or perhaps is available for lower cost in some other way, without too much configuring on a per patch basis.

The developers of the Eastwest MIDI Guitar Series say they are optimized for the Fishman TriplePlay and that would be nice if they are truly plug and pray (well as close as you can get).

Much thanks!

Yes, the EastWest MIDI GUITAR Series instruments are very good -- for what they are. But very expensive and they only include a single iLok licence so you're tied to the iLok USB key if you want to use it between different devices without deauthorizing/authorizing everytime you change machine. Also, the licences can't be resold though which sucks. As far as the sounds go, I find I gravitate towards certain sets more than others. Maybe just grab the ones you enjoy the sounds of...there are video demos of each set out there, IIRC.

-----

RE: MG2 (since it got so many mentions in this thread) it's very powerful on any platform -- iOS, macOS and even WIN10. If you can't get it working properly it's a problem with your setup or your playing technique. It bends my mind sometimes with how good it is. I use it in my light laptop rig and it's a good enough substitute for my Roland gear -- it does monophonic pitch-2-MIDI super well...polyphony is a bit weaker but better than nothing, just be careful of the voicings you play. As a standalone it could use some optimization (design-wise) --  doubt I'd ever use the standalone for performing. It also integrates with your DAW as a VST superbly. I can't recommend it enough especially at the price point.

And if you're getting into super light rigs, the iOS version is pretty great too. Integrates nicely with a host like AUM, Audiobus 3 or Ape Matrix in combination with any decent amp/fx app.
Vaultnaemsae's SoundCloud:
https://soundcloud.com/vaultnaemsae

Chumly

#12
As to MG2 I use it exclusively on my iPad Pro, because as you mentioned, it's unbeatable on iOS for simplicity and small size. I might buy the Windows / Mac version of MG2 at some point, I'm not sure.

As to the Eastwest MIDI Guitar Series, I did not know about the annoying single iLok license. I'm not overly worried about non-resale as I consider music software to be pretty much instant 100% deprecation in most cases, with computer hardware not much better, sadly.  I have yet to video demo each set well enough to know which I'd like. Thanks for the insights!
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

mooncaine

My feeling about demo patches is that they should wow you. The demo's where the author's supposed to put the best work that could draw you in. If the demo doesn't wow me, the product isn't compelling.

Chumly

#14
That's a nice thought, and can have merit when it comes to simple sample playback software such as Eastwest MIDI Guitar Series, but it's often not the case with more complex devices such as the Boss SY-1000 and the Line 6 Helix, where the original demo patches not only may well just scratch the surface of the device's capabilities, but the demo patches can be rather last minute low budget efforts.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Chumly

#15
Well, I suppose it's finis.

"This item is no longer available"   http://www.soundsonline.com/midi-guitar-series

Unless it's available at some deep discount. I guess it was not a big enough seller to keep it updated with the various OS's. I wonder if those that bought it are now or will be stranded. Very unfortunate and I sympathize if so.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Vaultnaemsae

Fishman appears to have moved over to relations with KV331's Synthmaster -- not even close to the same, I know.

But, you're probably better of with a full version of Kontakt anyway :)
Vaultnaemsae's SoundCloud:
https://soundcloud.com/vaultnaemsae

Chumly

I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

keenblade

Quote from: Chumly on August 11, 2021, 01:33:42 PM
Well, I suppose it's finis.

"This item is no longer available"   http://www.soundsonline.com/midi-guitar-series

Unless it's available at some deep discount. I guess it was not a big enough seller to keep it updated with the various OS's. I wonder if those that bought it are now or will be stranded. Very unfortunate and I sympathize if so.
I have EW MIDI guitar Vol 1 and 2. I contacted the EW support. They said MIDI guitar series are discontinued and the only way to install them is to use an older EW Installation center. Because newer ones do not see the libraries and can't install them. If you succeeded to install, then you can use the libraries with their play software. At least they could give a discount/credit for upgrading to a newer libraries from MIDI guitar series. I don't know if their new Opus engine could be able to play them. You have to buy a new sound library to get the Opus engine. I have lots of their libraries but I have to buy a new one for Opus :( I think like BOSS, they do not care the loyal customers.
No life is too small to save.

Chumly

#19
I understand your frustration as I've been left high and dry by various manufactures over the years.

It's an exaggeration to say that Boss does not care about loyal customers, but it's certainly true that Boss does not emphasize firmware updates and more often than not brings out new hardware instead.  Rather the exact opposite of Kemper for example.

Probably the best way to look at all this high-tech mess is to accept that things change rapidly and if a product does not meet profit expectations it likely will be discontinued.

Roland / Boss has a rather unusual corporate policy in that they will often put out all kinds of products without much market research and see what catches on, and sometimes as in the case of guitar synths will stick with a product line for decades, even though it may not be particularly profitable.  Casio has a similar ethos (well they did I am not sure if they still do).

To avoid all this you could buy a beautiful acoustic guitar, and ignore everything else, but where would the adventure be in that? Well, maybe there would be, and we are all missing out on the obvious.
I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. - Richard P. Feynman

Vaultnaemsae

Opus does not work with the libraries...go figure.
Though the installation center says you need it and will direct you to install it...but you won't be able to use it.
Also, the licensing is simplified now. It still looks for an ilok but you don't have to connect the libraries through the EW installation center software.
Vaultnaemsae's SoundCloud:
https://soundcloud.com/vaultnaemsae