SY-1000 bass mode, modeling upright bass

Started by stub, March 02, 2020, 07:52:29 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

stub

I've had some time to tinker with the "arco" challenge in the "pit".

The OSC synth is unworkable because of tracking and poor dynamics. The dynamic synth was the best option.

I have a sawtooth on one INST, mixed with a little noise on another instrument. I filtered the way down with a 24dB LPF, (12 dB was too synthy), 18dB rolloff (3-pole) would probably have worked better for this. I'm combining pretty assertive EQ, and might be able to get close with more futzing.

It does't sound like a bowed string. At this point, it just sounds like a pizz with more sustain. And for now, that's pretty useful.

jozart

Following up on the iOS comment, the SWAM Double Bass is now on iOS

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/swam-double-bass/id1458129807

You can play it using pitch-to-MIDI.

Back on a laptop, you can route your per-string audio to a DAW and use an instance of MIDI Guitar 2 per string like LoFiLeif:




stub

Quote from: jozart on November 24, 2021, 07:30:50 PM
Following up on the iOS comment, the SWAM Double Bass is now on iOS

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/swam-double-bass/id1458129807


Thanks. That's a really good tip! Looks like it is on sale now, too. I can run the MIDI out to the iPad, and the audio from the iPad to the return jack on the SY-1000 and use a foot switch to enable that. Could be pretty slick. Of course, latency will be the main challenge. Easily tested.

fokof

Please report result.

I abandoned any hopes in PTM for bass a while back.  :-[

aliensporebomb

Don't create an arco contrabass using a synth model - that's a recipe for frustration as you have found.  Create it using a detuned acoustic guitar (dreadnaught type) pitched down with fretless enabled.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

stub

Actually, I wasn't frustrated at all. I more or less knew what to expect. I was at least glad to get a kind of improved sustain effect (without losing dynamics).

After spending a little time with the Swam Double Bass, I was a bit disappointed that velocity cannot be used to control volume, bow pressure or bow speed-- essentially NO dynamics from velocity. AND it's not in the MIDI mod source lists for those controls. I might be able to find some tool take velocity and generate expression values. That might help. Stupid oversight on the part of Swam (or perhaps my own stupidity, time will tell).

jozart

I think you need to translate velocity to channel pressure.

The folks in the MG2 forum are solving the same problem using iOS apps Mozaic and CC PAL

https://jamosapien.com/t/triggering-geoswam-sounds-in-geoshred-with-mg2/2711

jozart

Regarding SWAM controllers, I see a few controls that can be mapped via assigns to the channel pressure CC:

String input level
Normal IN level

Also, EXP1, EXP2 can be configured to send CC in Guitar to MIDI settings

stub

The challenge is that within SWAM, if you want to map velocity to control bow-speed, bow-pressure, or expression you cannot. So it seems to ignore velocity.

What I'd like to do is have velocity set an initial value for dynamics (which are basically a combination of bow-speed & bow-pressure) then use some CC to smoothly take over -- relative to that initial value. It's not really part of the MIDI spec, specifically. But SWAM could set it up. For example, if a note is thus controlled via velocity, a pitch wheel could be repurposed to scale dynamics up/down from there. But SWAM provides few options for such control.

admin


gumtown

Quote from: admin on December 01, 2021, 11:03:48 AM
What is SWAM?
A bit of a quick Google search (while eliminating swimming related answers) came up with

https://audiomodeling.com/

Expressive Virtual Instruments and Live Performance Software
SWAM is a new-generation technology that enables musicians, performers, and composers to expand their creativity. The SWAM engine combines concepts of Physical Modeling and Behavioral Modeling with the Multi-Vector/Phase-Synchronous Sample-Morphing technique.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

admin

How is it different than COSM?

What groups promote SWAM?

stub

For a while, SWAM released these virtual plugin instruments for desktop (AU/VST, etc). Then they started releasing individual instruments for iOS-- and because the price for each instrument was a little cheaper than the desktop versions, I think that has made them less obscure.



I haven't given up on perhaps making a useable bowed ("arco") sound for upright bass, but it's likely not going to be as effective as triggering something that is designed specifically to model that sound. The SWAM double-bass does sound really good. But I hit a snag as I need to be able to control the initial level of each note via velocity (which the SY-1000 will transmit), and perhaps use a Breath Controller or pedal to shape sustain.

stub

I'm about to start another music theater production, where I'll be using the upright/pizz simulation with my fretless. It'll be nice to dust that off again.