SY-1000 bass mode, modeling upright bass

Started by stub, March 02, 2020, 07:52:29 PM

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stub

How is the acoustic bass model (in bass mode)? Could someone post an audio example of a GK-enabled bass doing some finger-picked pizzicato kind of sounds with the acoustic bass model?

Just curious about how it sounds and how it tracks. Could be very useful for those music theater gigs.

Though I know arco is not really possible in that mode. However, I'd imagine that a carefully tweaked synth could be kind of tucked under a sustained bass sound and not be too bad.

stub

Anyone with the bass rig willing to post a quick demo of the acoustic bass sim?

I haven't heard ANY examples of this anywhere (from any gear).

gumtown

I would if I could, but I don't yet have an SY-1000, so I can't.

I would like to hear examples from the Bass Mode too, not many posted yet.
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fokof

#3
Played on a fretless add realism me thinks.
And no pitch correction also helps :)


stub

Wow. Thanks so much for posting that.

I think that's a pretty convincing sound, especially in a mix. You're right that the fretless really does help add to the realism!

It sounds like an upright with a piezo pickup. The fretless "growl" really does translate into upright growl quite well.

stub

I think with a little reverb and ambience it would work really well.

The room reverb will give it just a little more complexity, resonance and that "ringing" quality.

I might also mess around with sending it into a parallel path with an EQ and another reverb to try to simulate a bit of body resonant ringing. Set the EQ to be like a big hump in the low mid, and send it through a very short room.

fokof

In that clip , there is a little plate rvb , with 160ms predelay.


The Body resonance parameter in the URB instrument is very effective , it is set to 20 on that one.
It adds a lot of "ringing" if set @ high value , very effective.

You'll see when get yours !!!

stub

Cool. I was thinking more of using modified reverb as part of the bass tone (as opposed to actually room sound). But yea, if the body resonance adds that ringing, then maybe that's all that's needed (perhaps with some boom-controlling EQ).

I have an SY-1000 (finally) and a GK equipped guitar.

My bass is fretted and not GK-equipped. I've been on the fence about whether buy a GK-3B for my bass, or perhaps I could get a 2nd, decent bass (perhaps even a fretless) and install the GK-3B or some other divided pickup to that. I suppose before I do that, I might just see what I can get from the bass mode and standard pickup.

Nobulusprime

I think the upright bass model is one of the best things about the SY1000.
It's really good even the presets are pretty good.

stub

That is good to hear.

I'm especially glad the example used a fretless bass. I can see how that adds quite a bit to the illusion.

stub

I recently got a fretless bass, and was surprised at how much more easily I could imitate an upright sound even just with tone controls.

I may still one day get a GK-3B for it, but not urgent now.

jongrant

Today, I was trying to dial in a decent upright sound (gk-3b and fretless bass). I was trying a few different things, and found that adding the Acoustic Resonance  in an fx block helped it a lot, at least for the mix I was using it in. There are so many options, mixing the 4 signal paths!

I think what I ended up with sounds better than my best efforts on the vb-99, although I do miss the polycomp on this sound. I find the attack on the E and lowB strings can get unruly on the SY.

stub

After getting my GK-3B properly installed on my Ibanez fretless bass, and then spending some quality time fine-tuning the settings in the acoustic model, I've gotten a VERY satisfying result. It's amazing.

I ended up turning buzz all the way off, as it's clear that setting is for fretted basses. Fretless basses already have all the buzz needed. Attack was a tricky one. I like the low-end thump but there's something about the percussive thing made me want to turn it down to around 15 or less. I love how the body size (which sounds like it just transposes the IR down) can give you a very large sounding resonating body.

The final thing is that it is important how you pluck. If you pluck in a similar way to where/how you pluck an upright, it really does change the sound.

I'm playing my first music theater gig with this set up and it is going really well. The sound-guy is getting a kick out of it.

stub

I noticed on the gig that my 3rd string is bit louder than the others. It's not louder when I look at the sensitivity settings. Perhaps just something about the model.  But fortunately, it's pretty easy to just go in and turn that string down a little.

Such a well thought-out lil beasty.


gumtown

Probably an EQ thing, as some models can be a bit 'resonant' at certain notes.
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stub

Quote from: gumtown on May 10, 2021, 03:15:27 PM
Probably an EQ thing, as some models can be a bit 'resonant' at certain notes.

That's probably right. It's not a specific note, but a range of notes from maybe the 2nd fret to the 8th fret where a nice hump in the lows exists. If I wanted to keep that hump, for it's positive impact on all the other notes, I could even make multiple instruments, where one instrument isolates just that string, and do EQ just on that instrument. Again, many ways to refine the sounds.

stub

I'm playing another theater show using the upright simulator with a fretless.

And I'm encountering another issue:  "You dial in an impeccable upright tone, and everyone is so focused on their own parts, they don't notice the little technological marvel you've achieved."

I suppose because it is just doing what it needs to do, that should be reward enough, but I was really hoping for a little oo'ing and ah'ing.   sigh.

fokof

IME the majority of people listen with their eyes , even musicians.

If they don't notice in the mix , it means that it does a wonderful job , the second they'll see you play on an electric bass , they won't understand.

My guess is if they see the electric bass before hearing the result , they won't appreciate as much.

As a soundman ,  the number of times I encountered the "psycoacoustical phenomena" is staggering. 





stub

Yea, you're right. I like to think if it was me, I'd do a double-take and go "Wait. What?" But who knows?

stub

I'd like to try setting up a bowed bass sound.

When I'm playing these music theater charts, there are times when the parts marked "arco" (bowed) would really sound nice that way. Unfortunately, the bass mode doesn't have bass version of vio guitar. Still it might be possible to get somewhere with OSC synth or Dynamic synth, and some assertive use of EQ.


Kevin M

Quote from: stub on November 16, 2021, 06:39:51 PM
I'd like to try setting up a bowed bass sound.

When I'm playing these music theater charts, there are times when the parts marked "arco" (bowed) would really sound nice that way. Unfortunately, the bass mode doesn't have bass version of vio guitar. Still it might be possible to get somewhere with OSC synth or Dynamic synth, and some assertive use of EQ.

What about combining something with the Hofner violin bass model?

stub

 ;D



If only there was an 'ebow' enable mode!   :)

I should try booting up in guitar mode just to hear what VIO Guitar sounds like with the bass. The sitar with fretless bass is amazing! But I wouldn't be able to use acoustic bass and vio guitar in the same boot session.

I'll give the synth thing a try, but I'm not optimistic. It will be difficult for me to make a convincing bowed bass that will have the qualities that I want. Might be fun trying, though.

fokof

Arco is tough one to pull off me thinks.

It will always sound like an '80s synth without samples.

stub

Quote from: fokof on November 17, 2021, 07:42:03 AM
Arco is tough one to pull off me thinks.

It will always sound like an '80s synth without samples.

Yea, I agree. I've just learned about this "filter bank" approach to simulating strings-- where you are basically trying to simulate the fixed resonances of the bridge and body-- using peaks & notches with filters. But still, it'll sound like a synth, that that won't work for this show.

A different angle would be to send some MIDI out and trigger some samples. There's a cool iOS app called FingerFiddle which has a pretty nice bowed bass sound-- but no MIDI in! If that app could get BC/Exp input, I'd be all set.


Tosh

After reading this thread I decided to try something along these lines. I'm playing a Godin Ultra4 SA that I've had for a year now (beginner bass player). I have a Roland XV-5050 from way back, which has some nice arco patches in it, that I had setup using a Roland GI-20 between the it and the bass. I was satisfied with the tracking out of the GI-20 from open "A" upwards, and my patches are tailored for the Godin's GK output. It sounds pretty good playing the string parts to "Elinor Rigby" ;-}

So I tried the Bass-to-MIDI function of the SY-1000, playing the same patches in the XV-5050 that I had setup for the GI-20, and I was disappointed with the results. There were a lot more missed notes and false triggers than before. I suspect I'll need to get under the hood of the SY-1000 and try to tweak it's parameters to improve the B2M performance.

For the moments when I could play cleanly enough, the sonic results were great in the upper registers; from "D" downwards latency was getting high enough to be irritating, but I think it may be possible to blend the sounds of the 2 devices to hide the delay from the rack synth, and create some killer patches