Basic (kinda newbie) questions about Fishman Connect and the accompanying IPad

Started by BadAssBluesDude, February 05, 2020, 01:44:34 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BadAssBluesDude

Howdy. I've been exclusively a V-guitar user since the VG-8 came out 25-ish years ago. I've had several of the Roland synths, trigger by a Graphtech Hexpander w/piezos, etc..  I bought and tried to use a TriplePlay, a couple of years ago, but although it met the requirements, I guess my laptop wasn't enough, because it was just "glitchy" so I sold it.

I'm thinking about the Connect. Both my IPads are old, so I'd have to buy a new one. My questions are:
(1) How do you Connect users like this unit?
(2) Anything I need to be aware of?
(3) I'm not a Mac guy and I'm on a budget. I don't want to go cheap and buy a lesser IPad that might be "glitchy", what kind or level of Ipad should I be looking at?

Thanks!

vtxtc1

The connect works great, the software is simplistic with consumer preset sounds. Start it, turn off sounds 1, 2 and clips and run Layr on top. It is the only iPad synth that you can set up to input 6 different midi channels. I found all others use only poly mode and the tracking stinks. On Layr I expanded each patch to six copies on six channels and restricted note range for each string. This took a few days going patch by patch but worth it.
Layr is 20 bucks and sounds amazing. I can plug my guitar straight into the iPad and have a system that works better than all my Roland gear from the last 40 years (except my gr300).
Now searching for a Bluetooth controller for program changes and pedal since the Connect's 2 control buttons only work with Fishman iOS software.

ITL

I have both the FTP wireless and FTP Connect.  The Connect is simpler.. I use it for when I don't need my full rig and just want something that is quick and easy to set-up.  I use AUM by Kymatica which is like a VST or AU host for iOS devises, form their I can trigger, Sampletank and other iOS soft synths ( iM1, Syntronik, Korg Module. etc.) The FTP Connect app is ok to play around with, but haven't used it live yet.  IMO,the iOS stuff is a little below what you can achieve on a full OS system, in terms of sound quality and functionality, but for live use, most people wouldn't notice the difference.     
LGXTSA, Godin Session Custom TriplePlay w/ Fishman Piezo, JTVariax59, Axe-FXII, Integra 7, Motif XS, VoiceLive 3

vtxtc1

ITL,
     You mention SampleTank on iOS. The only iOS synth I've found outside the tripleplay connect app that tracks well is Layr. I've been messing around for the last couple hours and loaded 6 instruments in multi mode on channels 1-6 in SampleTank.
It tracks badly, doesn't obey string bends or hammers either. Feels like poly mode. I have collected 8 or 9 iOS synths now with Layr being the only playable one. Am I missing something? I had high hopes for SampleTank's multitimberal functions.

admin

All depends on your iPad  - newer models are faster and can run lower latency / fewer glitches

regardless  - if You desire String bending, you must use an IOS synth that supports 6 Voices with each on a  separate MIDI Channel per String (rare)

Tripleplay MIDI Modes Explained

FTP - Fishman Tripleplay Modes & Midi Implementation
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=13653.0

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/11992/any-midi-guitar-specific-synthesizers-on-ios

QuoteThe Triple play should allow you to run separate channels for each string, and Eden Synth is probably the best candidate,


https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/34063/flow-multi-track-midi-sequencer-looper-for-mozaic-update-w-cc-automation-strumming-ratcheting
QuoteFlow - multi-track midi sequencer/looper for Mozaic - UPDATE w/CC automation, strumming & ratcheting

MIDI Channel (1-16)
For multi-timbral synths (apps or hardware that can produce multiple different sounds simultaneously), each sound is assigned one of 16 MIDI channels. Select the same channel in your synth and in this menu. If you only use one sound in the synth or if it doesn't support multiple sounds, just leave both at 1 or set the synth to Omni.

Another use case for channels is AUv3 hosts like AUM: As AUM only appears as a single app in Xequence, but can host multiple plugins, you would use channels to separately connect to them: In AUM, enable the "AUM Destination" MIDI Source for the plugin, and in "Channel Filter", enable just one of the channels, for example, 3. Then in Xequence, select AUM as the MIDI destination, and channel 3. This way, you can host up to 16 separate instruments in AUM and create corresponding instruments in Xequence.

For the Audiobus destination, the channel selector is replaced by a port selector for selecting one of Xequence's 16 Audiobus MIDI Outs.


http://www.seven.systems/xequence2/en/manual/

http://www.promusicapps.com/category/music-apps/synths/

vtxtc1

I have the iPad Pro from 2018. Bummer about SampleTank not being a true multitimberal synth. Guess I'll keep using Layr. You can input on all 16 channels if you want. I set up 6, one for each string, and limit each channel to note range for each string. Tracks beautifully! Before finding Layr I had given up on using the iPad with Tripleplay. Works great with the Blueboard pedal too.

FishmanSoftware

Quote from: vtxtc1 on April 24, 2020, 06:58:53 AM
Bummer about SampleTank not being a true multitimberal synth.

Actually SampleTank for iOS does support 8 part multitimbral operation. It has a combi mode where you can select up to 8 sounds, assign the channel to each, adjust volume, transposition, and more. You can save each combi in a list in your desired order and step through them with the buttons on the TriplePlay controller (Connect or wireless). It also switches sounds very quickly. It is not free, but there are many sampled sounds available for purchase.

The main limitation is that it only supports a 2 semitone bend range, likely why some folks think it is not working right. If you just plug in TP Connect (or power up TP wireless) it defaults to Basic Mode, which uses 2 semitone bend range. You can enable/disable bends by (for TP Connect) briefly pressing both buttons at the same time, or (for TP wireless) pressing the button closest/furthest from the volume knob. Of course using the Mac/Win TP Software you can make Hardware patches, but currently they don't support bend range per-patch, only a global setting which defaults to 12.

It is quite different from Layr and would be a nice complement, I think.

Another nice option is SynthMaster One. The free "SynthMaster One Player" sounds great, has many presets, and supports multi-channel MIDI. It is stuck on 12 semitone bend range until you upgrade to the paid version. They also have "SynthMaster One" with editing which is not free, but is a great choice for TriplePlay. Hope this helps, and I would be happy to answer any questions.

vtxtc1

Thanks for your quick response. I was a bit hasty. I saved a multi patch and limited note range for each string. Still no hammer-ons or accurate pitch bend. Then I set the Connect software pitch bend to trigger and tracking is all fixed. You have the annoying stepped pitch bend, but you can bend till the string breaks! Now if we can just find a way for the smooth pitch bend to work.
I'll look into SM1, thanks for the tip.
The SampleTank software has the look of the Connect software, cool that I can trigger patch changes from my pickup controller buttons. Wish I could somehow use the controller buttons for Layr. I bought an IK Blueboard that does fine for all control and program changes. The Fishman volume always works with all software so far though!
Thanks again, the Tripleplay made the guitar synth a joy to play instead of a frustration.

vtxtc1

SynthMasterOne sounds great. I put into mono mode and set the input to Omni. Seems to work better with the Connect app running. Haven't been able to sort out the pitch bend so far. Set on 12 with the Connect app to smooth. It translates hammers as portamento. Maybe I'm missing something.

vtxtc1

Fixed it, set the midi cc filter length to 20ms or 10 ms. Thanks! I'll add this to LayR and my stepbending SampleTank. If Sampletank does a fix, that will be 3 iOS synths that really deliver. A triple play!

FishmanSoftware

A key thing to understand is that currently the Connect app sets the TP controller to a 12 semitone bend range, so the free SynthMaster One Player works well when both are running at the same time. To use SampleTank for iOS with the Connect app you would need to set bend mode to Trigger as you described.
If you install the latest Mac/Windows TP Software, you can use it to program a number of "Hardware Patches" which provide preset controller settings, and you could also set the global bend range to match (for example) SampleTank for iOS. These are stored in the controller. Then on your iPad, quit out of (or don't run) the Connect app, instead hold down the button closest to the pickup wire (the Up button) while plugging in the controller to the iPad. Now you will be in Hardware Mode on Hardware Patch #1 with your chosen bend range (in this example 2 semitones), and your chosen MIDI Mode (should be "Mono" for multitimbral use), and chosen bend mode (you might want Auto or Smooth), and then it would work the way that you want.
Yeah, I realize that this is a lot of steps. All of this would be simplified if IK added adjustable bend range to SampleTank, or we added adjustable bend range to the Connect app. Hope this helps.

vtxtc1

Thank you, I've filled the hardware bank of the connect app with my mks50 patches. They are all set up as you describe. The fc1 displays my hardware patch names too. I use the up button hold process quite a bit. Some synths gain a small tracking edge with the Connect app running. I'll try again with sampletank. Why can't I assign the fc1 mod pedal to midi out hardware synth? It works great with the pc tripleplay app. 

vtxtc1

Got SynthMaster One working pretty well on iPad. Occasional note freeze issues but sounds great. Set input to Omni lets the tripleplay use separate midi channels. It doesn't seem to matter if the patch is set to mono or poly for tracking.
Invested in the everything bundle for my pc. I guess the SynthMaster and SynthMasterOne are separate apps and you need both for all 5000 presets. Good sale going on till May 1st.
Working well so far on pc as a standalone app. I scanned for it on the Connect app and can add it in the mixer section. When you load it from the Connect mixer it loads fine and the app even includes a tripleplay settings bar on the left. Unfortunately, no signal reaches the SynthMaster app.
Maybe a compatibility issue.

admin

Quote from: vtxtc1 on April 26, 2020, 11:31:40 AM
Got SynthMaster One working pretty well on iPad. Occasional note freeze issues but sounds great. Set input to Omni lets the tripleplay use separate midi channels. It doesn't seem to matter if the patch is set to mono or poly for tracking.
Invested in the everything bundle for my pc. I guess the SynthMaster and SynthMasterOne are separate apps and you need both for all 5000 presets. Good sale going on till May 1st.
Working well so far on pc as a standalone app. I scanned for it on the Connect app and can add it in the mixer section. When you load it from the Connect mixer it loads fine and the app even includes a tripleplay settings bar on the left. Unfortunately, no signal reaches the SynthMaster app.
Maybe a compatibility issue.

What is your desktop OS?
(Catalina?)

FishmanSoftware

Quote from: vtxtc1 on April 26, 2020, 11:31:40 AM
Working well so far on pc as a standalone app. I scanned for it on the Connect app and can add it in the mixer section. When you load it from the Connect mixer it loads fine and the app even includes a tripleplay settings bar on the left. Unfortunately, no signal reaches the SynthMaster app.
Maybe a compatibility issue.
FYI, Connect app is what we call the iPad app. The Mac/Win we call TriplePlay Software.
That is weird because I have used SynthMaster2 and SynthMaster one with TriplePlay software many times in the same context with no problems.
Maybe you loaded it into a Split that has no range on the fretboard? Just for an experiment try changing the patch MIDI Mode to Poly, which will let you hear all four splits layered together. When patch MIDI Mode is set to Mono, you need to adjust the extent of the splits on the virtual fretboard in order to hear anything other than split 1. Just a hunch.

vtxtc1

I got it. I was trying to add SynthMasterOne as a split. If I open a hardware patch I can add it into an open channel. I get it now. I tried to enter an East West patch into a third channel but it wouldn't work. I guess the sound libraries aren't technically synth engines. Would be nice if the guitar channel and the hardware synth channel could have audio streams through the mixer. The SynthMasterOne sends audio through the software. My hardware synth and guitar audio don't route through the mixer. No biggie, I can use my RME mixer. I can't run my guitar through the guitar rig app in TP software though.

I'm still loving SynthMasterOne. My only bug seems to be an occasional note that won't shut down. You can retrigger the string and get a new note but you sometimes have to switch patches to stop it. Beautifully luscious patches with amazing depth. Thanks for the tip, great addition to my rig. The everything bundle is on sale for 150 till May. Upgrades are discounted too.

FishmanSoftware

Quote from: vtxtc1 on April 28, 2020, 05:00:59 PM
I can't run my guitar through the guitar rig app in TP software though.

I'm still loving SynthMasterOne. My only bug seems to be an occasional note that won't shut down. You can retrigger the string and get a new note but you sometimes have to switch patches to stop it.
You should be able to run your guitar through the Guitar Rig app in the TP software. You need an audio interface, which you have, and you need to select that as your audio input in TP software Preferences. Then in Guitar Rig you may have to select right input or both left and right inputs, depending on how you have things connected. By default only the left input goes through the guitar plugin.

I think that there is a bug fix available (or soon to be available, maybe contact kv331) for the stuck note problem. A tip is to edit SynthMaster One presets that are set up for monophonic playback (ones that won't play chords), and change them to polyphonic. Having done that, you can play chords, the presets will work with either Mono or Poly controller settings, and might help with the stuck note problem you are running into.

vtxtc1

Thanks for the workaround. It really is a great app. I'm using Windows 10.  I use the guitar rig app through the Tripleplay software mixer on all the factory patches. Just get no audio through the mixer when playing hardware patches.

I set up a mixer channel for hardware synth, one for guitar rig too. Neither will play audio. The interface settings work for every factory patch. When playing a hardware patch if I add SynthMasterOne it will play audio.
My hardware synth audio outputs are assigned to the corresponding  Tripleplay audio inputs. I assumed the mixer section wasn't functional in a hardware patch until it worked for SynthMaster.

FishmanSoftware

Quote from: vtxtc1 on April 29, 2020, 07:32:27 PM
Thanks for the workaround. It really is a great app. I'm using Windows 10.  I use the guitar rig app through the Tripleplay software mixer on all the factory patches. Just get no audio through the mixer when playing hardware patches.

I set up a mixer channel for hardware synth, one for guitar rig too. Neither will play audio. The interface settings work for every factory patch. When playing a hardware patch if I add SynthMasterOne it will play audio.
My hardware synth audio outputs are assigned to the corresponding  Tripleplay audio inputs. I assumed the mixer section wasn't functional in a hardware patch until it worked for SynthMaster.
Thanks for the detailed feedback. We will investigate.