GT-1000 - How do I merge a stereo path into a single XLR SUB OUTPUT?

[Danelectro]

My GT-1000 setup for playing in a band is:

- 1/4" MAIN OUTPUT L/MONO to an FRFR that is used as my personal monitor
- XLR SUB OUTPUT (1 cable) to the main PA

The L/MONO output jack merges both channels, so there's no issue with my personal FRFR monitor, however when I connect directly to the FOH PA system via one SUB OUTPUT XLR cable, I'm losing one side of the signal for any effects that may be stereo.  I searched around through the menus looking for a way to merge the both channels to either the left or right XLR, but I don't see anything.  Running both L & R XLRs to the main PA is not an option due to limited channels on the board.

I really don't want to redefine all of my patches to be mono because when I'm at home playing or recording, I prefer a stereo mix.  I just want to be able to merge it to mono for live situations.  I could send the output of the FRFR (which would be a merged signal) to the FOH, but then the FOH volume will change if I happen to adjust the OUTPUT LEVEL knob on the GT-1000.  The output level of the SUB OUT is constant regardless of how I adjust the volume of my personal FRFR, so I really want to connect to the PA via the XLR SUB OUT.

- Do I need an external box or small mixer in order to merge L & R into a single output?
- Is there any problem with simply constructing a Y-cable that hard-wires two female XLR plugs and one male XLR plug together in order to merge the channels into a single output to the PA?

Thx

[Brent Flash]

Why don't you get a direct box that has both XLR and 1/4" out and use that? It can also solve ground loop problems playing live in a lot of cases. https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/di-boxes/

[admin]

Issues to consider  when doing Stereo to Mono  (phase errors / stereo effects drop out, etc)

John Lennon preferred Mono mix - because in the 1960's he knew Mono was "AM Hit Radio Friendly"   



GoodWood - TX Interfacer / TX Underfacer
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=26203.msg191296#msg191296

[Danelectro]

A DI box is normally used to go from an unbalanced 1/4" plug to a balanced XLR, so that doesn't solve the problem I have.

Here is my current setup, which is very simple:




The problem with the setup shown above is that the LEFT SUB OUTPUT does not merge both the left and right channels as the 1/4" L/MONO output does.  When a single XLR cable is connected between the GT-1000 and the mixing board, only the left side of stereo effects will go to the mixer.  The right channel is lost, which will negatively affect the way stereo effects sound to the audience.  I didn't realize that I was losing half of the signal until a bandmate told me my chorus sounded thin and empty.  It sounded great through my personal FRFR (which is a merged mono mix), but he was hearing the FOH mix which had only the left channel effects, so apparently it sounded like crap.



What I would prefer to do is solve this via the firmware within the GT-1000, basically mix both the right and left channels together, then send the merged mono mix to the LEFT SUB OUTPUT.  I searched through the menus and I could not find a way to do this. 

If it can't be done in the firmware, then I suppose it will need to be done via hardware outside of the GT-1000 unit (ie: run two XLR cables from the LEFT SUB OUTPUT and the RIGHT SUB OUTPUT into a ? device that will merge the signals into one mono signal, and then send it on its way via a single XLR cable to the mixing board.  Something like this:

 

If I can simply solder a Y-cable together that accomplishes the schematic above, that's something I'm able to make myself, but I'm concerned that doing so might potentially cause some kind of internal problem with the GT since I'm effectively shorting the L & R XLR connectors together.

Any suggestions?

[Brent Flash]

A DI box is normally used to go from an unbalanced 1/4" plug to a balanced XLR.  The doesn't solve the problem I have. 

Just plug the 1/4" MAIN OUTPUT L/MONO into the 1/4" DI input then out to your FRFR. Connect the XLR out of the DI to the snake to the FOH board. Now you have the mono signal for both FRFR and FOH. That is what you want isn't it?

[Danelectro]

Just plug the 1/4" MAIN OUTPUT L/MONO into the 1/4" DI input then out to your FRFR. Connect the XLR out of the DI to the snake to the FOH board. Now you have the mono signal for both FRFR and FOH. That is what you want isn't it?

That's one way to set it up, but it doesn't work the same manner as it would if I use both the 1/4" out and the SUB OUTPUT XLRs.  The signal level of SUB OUTPUT is not affected by the output knob on the face of the GT-1000.  The knob only attenuates the 1/4" output.  The SUB OUTPUT level is fixed to whatever you set it to.

By connecting my monitor to the 1/4" out and the FOH to the SUB OUT XLR, it means I can use the knob to vary the loudness of my stage monitor without affecting the signal level going to the FOH (and thus driving the soundman nuts because my volume is all over the place).  I've spent time getting the levels of my patches balanced, so the signal going to FOH is set-and-forget, but I do like to have the option to use the knob to easily vary my stage volume thoughout the course of the night.

[Brent Flash]

That's one way to set it up, but it doesn't work the same manner as it would if I use both the 1/4" out and the SUB OUTPUT XLRs.  The signal level of SUB OUTPUT is not affected by the output knob on the face of the GT-1000.  The knob only attenuates the 1/4" output.  The SUB OUTPUT level is fixed to whatever you set it to.

By connecting my monitor to the 1/4" out and the FOH to the SUB OUT XLR, it means I can use the knob to vary the loudness of my stage monitor without affecting the signal level going to the FOH (and thus driving the soundman nuts because my volume is all over the place).  I've spent time getting the levels of my patches balanced, so the signal going to FOH is set-and-forget, but I do like to have the option to use the knob to easily vary my stage volume thoughout the course of the night.

I agree with everything you are saying and that is how I use my VG-99 live. But the way I describe is the easiest way to do what you want.
The VG-99 has an internal mixer that lets you pan the outputs however you want them and has delay built in to avoid phase problems. I don't think GT-1000 has these features. A reverse Y-cable may work but you will probably have phase problems. But maybe not. Cheap enough to try! LOL

[admin]

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/141794-REG/Audio_Technica_AT8681_AT8681_UniMix_Mic.html

[Danelectro]

I resolved the problem by making an XLR Y-cable.  I A-B'd the sound with the Y-cable compared to using a single XLR SUB OUT and the 1/4" MAIN Out and there's no difference in tone.  No phasing or weird stuff going it, so it looks like this is going to work just fine.  This afternoon the band did a soundcheck for tonight's gig.  I stepped out front to see how my tone was from the main PA and its comparable to what I'm getting in my FRFR, so all is good.  I still think that Boss should consider adding the option to sum the XLR stereo path to a mono output so that its not necessary to make a custom cable.

[Boisdelac]

Route two cables to the FOH mixer. If you want to use a stereo signal, set the panorama controls to the left and right side. If you want to use a mono signal, set both panorama controls in the center. The volume of the individual channels on the mixer can be turned down. The advantage here is greater headroom in the event of pulses.

[mr shankly]

It should be on the list of things that they need to update to be able to switch the sub out to mono.....it must be a simple update

[Schwoddel]

Switching on FX Expansion should set everything to mono. Never tried it, but that's how it is described in the manual.

[Dewdman42]

So I thought of the following work around for lack of SUBOUT mono...Please tell me if this might work or if I am misunderstanding the way Div/Mix works.  I'm unable to figure out what the "FX Expansion" feature is that @Schwoddel mentioned.

Anyway...

The idea would be to use a divider in front of the SUBOUT of each patch...set to DUAL mode, and set the Mixer to PAN/LR mode..  It think that should essentially force a summed output to both jacks of the SUBOUT. 

Kind of a PITA to have to manually program it into every patch...and presuming I don't need the divider for other tasks in the patch..but maybe that would work?

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[Boisdelac]

@Dewdman42

Install Firmware 3.2. In the master parameters set the parameter FX EXPANSION to on. All outputs (main/sub/left/right) now are Mono. See parameter guide page 29.