Can't get anything to talk to each other....

Started by MountainCraft, May 30, 2019, 03:55:34 PM

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gumtown

#25
Do you have Administrator access rights enabled for your Windows user logon account?
or a good fast Internet connection enabled? (obviously must do to post here, but is it on when installing the devices)

I just plugged in my GP-10 into a Windows 10 laptop which has not yet seen a GP-10,
Windows instantly made the USB device inserted sound (recognising a valid USB device was attached),
the driver did not install immediately,
so I opened Device Manager,
right clicked on the "GP-10" (in "other devices" catagory),
and selected Update driver and chose the search on line option,
the driver was found and installed.
The "GP-10" then moved into the "Sound, video, and game controllers" category.

The whole ordeal took less than a minute to do from plugging in the USB cable to having the driver installed and running.

Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

MountainCraft

I do all the exact same things, only it says no driver can be found....

admin

QuoteDell Latitude E6520.. 64 bit/Windows 10 Pro

https://www.scribd.com/document/198335348/Latitude-e6520-Spec-Sheet
https://www.levnapc.cz/ProductsFiles/dell-latitude-e6520-manual-en.pdf

QuoteUSB three 4-pin USB 2.0-compliant connectors and
one eSATA/USB 2.0-compliant connector

Avoid connecting to the one combo eSATA/USB 2.0-compliant connector

https://www.levnapc.cz/ProductsFiles/dell-latitude-e6520-manual-en.pdf

(See page 113 ) for the P.O.S.T check - (LEDS light upon power on, errors are reported as defined on Pages 113-115   

LED Error Codes
The following table shows the possible LED codes that may display when your
computer is unable to complete a power on self test.



MountainCraft

Good Morning..

I have a couple semi related questions...

1) There is a tone pack I want to buy..  These are installed via Tone Studio, right? 

I haven't really run TS yet because of the driver issue (but for now until I get this driver issue figured out, I may just set up that old windows 7 laptop for editing).. I assume it's like a saved 'set' in the MS-3 librarian/editor (I was able to install drivers for that, but then it wasn't an 'automatic' install) where you just load the set into the editor and then from there loaded into the GP-10 as a complete set?

2) Transferring audio between the GP-10 and a DAW..   

AFAIK, in every DAW I have you can only select one audio source/driver at a time...  If you use hardware for monitoring (in my case the XR-18 driver), how do you listen to what you're doing with the GP-10 driver selected?  In my mind, that becomes your I/O, and you lose your hardware I/O for monitoring and what not..  But there must be some simple reason why this isn't an issue, or no one would be able to use it...

Likewise, if you want to use virtual instruments via MIDI from the GP-10, that doesn't require the GP-10 audio driver to be selected, right?  So for that, I'd still be able to use the XR-18 I/O?


As for yesterday's ordeal, I'm not even remotely ready to do battle with those drivers again yet this morning... I didn't have an issue getting the MS-3 librarian/editor driver installed, but if I remember right, I think that driver was installed manually...  But I'd like to get them installed, somehow..  Would make life easier if they still had manual drivers you can download and install, but they don't appear to...  Unless there's a third party solution somewhere..

Maybe later after I'm through with getting some firewood and had a chance to clear my bean some..

Thanks,
Mark

admin

#29
QuoteThere is a (GP-10 )tone pack I want to buy..

IMHO the best GP-10 patches are all available free right here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=151.0

You NEED Boss Tone Studio to work

or try Gumtowns GP-10 Floorboard Editor
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15464.0



QuoteAFAIK, in every DAW I have you can only select one audio source/driver at a time...  If you use hardware for monitoring (in my case the XR-18 driver), how do you listen to what you're doing with the GP-10 driver selected?  In my mind, that becomes your I/O, and you lose your hardware I/O for monitoring and what not..  But there must be some simple reason why this isn't an issue, or no one would be able to use it...

IMHO the XR-18 in your GP-10 Laptop workflow will present big hurdles

The GP-10 works best on a Mac, but if you must use Windows - its true only one ASIO Audio device can be active on Windows at any time ( unlike a Mac, where its a Core Audio feature to create an Aggregate Core Audio device  using multiple Audio interfaces at same time)   

With GP-10,  I work with a GK 13 guitar> GP-10> USB to a MacBook Pro- and monitor using ATH-M50X Headphones connected to the GP-10 -

If I need Monitor Speakers, I connect Powered Studio Monitor Speakers directly to the GP-10 L/R Outputs  - and can track in Reaper DAW, or use Apple Logic-X and trigger AU Synths with ease. 

If I need to record a large band , I disconnect the GP-10 and use a QSC TMS-30  - record direct to the TMS-30 USB drive, or use the TMS-30 as my audio interface to a Mac/Win PC

observation:
* I never connect multiple USB audio interfaces to a Windows computer at same time
* I always change my currently used Audio interface for the task at hand.
* I do use multiple computers  - if I'm using the GP-10 to recording with a band, I'll connect the GP-10's 1/4" Stereo Outputs to a larger multichannel audio interface . I'll maintain a dedicated laptop (No USB Audio) running Boss Tone Studio for GP-10 to tweak / edit my GP-10 tones as needed between takes     


MountainCraft

Quote from: admin on May 31, 2019, 10:03:58 AM
IMHO the best GP-10 patches are all available free right here:

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=151.0

Already been grabbing them (very cool!) But there's one I want that I gotta pay 10 bucks for..  ;)

Quote from: admin on May 31, 2019, 10:03:58 AM

You NEED Boss Tone Studio to work


I guess worst case, I just use the old laptop with win 7 on it for that stuff

Quote from: admin on May 31, 2019, 10:03:58 AM


or try Gumtowns GP-10 Floorboard Editor
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15464.0



IMHO the XR-18 in your GP-10 Laptop workflow will present big hurdles

In what way...   Just with the USB audio, or MIDI too?


Quote from: admin on May 31, 2019, 10:03:58 AM


The GP-10 works best on a Mac, but if you must use Windows - its true only one ASIO Audio device can be active on Windows at any time ( unlike a Mac, where its a Core Audio feature to create an Aggregate Core Audio device  using multiple Audio interfaces at same time)   

With GP-10,  I work with a GK 13 guitar> GP-10> USB to a MacBook Pro- and monitor using ATH-M50X Headphones connected to the GP-10 -

If I need Monitor Speakers, I connect Powered Studio Monitor Speakers directly to the GP-10 L/R Outputs  - and can track in Reaper DAW, or use Apple Logic-X and trigger AU Synths with ease. 

If I need to record a large band , I disconnect the GP-10 and use a QSC TMS-30  - record direct to the TMS-30 USB drive, or use the TMS-30 as my audio interface to a Mac/Win PC

observation:
* I never connect multiple USB audio interfaces to a Windows computer at same time
* I always change my currently used Audio interface for the task at hand.
* I do use multiple computers  - if I'm using the GP-10 to recording with a band, I'll connect the GP-10's 1/4" Stereo Outputs to a larger multichannel audio interface . I'll maintain a dedicated laptop (No USB Audio) running Boss Tone Studio for GP-10 to tweak / edit my GP-10 tones as needed between takes     

I guess if I need to do multitrack + GP-10 USB, I'll have to use two computers and merge files later..  My macs are all waayyyy too old for this stuff... and they're all desktop/towers

mooncaine

Don't give up on the old Macs just yet. Maybe using one would be just fine for patch editing, saving, keeping your patch collection, and being able to share those files on a home network with whatever computer you'd prefer to house your patch collection.

I still keep an old MBP around that would actually work fine with all my music needs. It's even easier to use because it doesn't have those stinking USB-C ports like the newer one's got.
BTW, I share your frustrations about MIDI compatibility.

CodeSmart

If I remember correctly I did install the firmware you requested (disregard the letter I include to everyone).
Anyways, to get PC going from MS-3 (upper), to GP-10 (lower) it does not matter what firmware you have installed.
Core Roland/Boss support is always available.

1) You only need a GP-10 firmware version when GP-10 MIDI Bridge map for "deep" GP-10 editing is required. You have MIDI PC and normal Eight CC Assigns to work with even without the Bridge code provided by Boss BTS.

2) For MS-3 you only need the MS-3 firmware when MS-3 MIDI Bridge map for 'deep' editing of the MS-3 is required. But you just want to read what the MS-3 sends out, so hence you don't need the MS-3 Bridge.

Note it's possible to turn all bridges OFF using the PC Assistant. I don't think you need any Bridge at all for what you are seeking to do. I think it would make life easier for you to just turn them off.

Regarding the driver problems I have no clue what is wrong with you PC.

Remember to edit each and every MS-3 patch with what it should transmit and that GP-10 only listens to CH 1
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

MountainCraft

#33
Quote from: CodeSmart on June 01, 2019, 01:46:34 AM
If I remember correctly I did install the firmware you requested (disregard the letter I include to everyone).
Anyways, to get PC going from MS-3 (upper), to GP-10 (lower) it does not matter what firmware you have installed.
Core Roland/Boss support is always available.

1) You only need a GP-10 firmware version when GP-10 MIDI Bridge map for "deep" GP-10 editing is required. You have MIDI PC and normal Eight CC Assigns to work with even without the Bridge code provided by Boss BTS.

2) For MS-3 you only need the MS-3 firmware when MS-3 MIDI Bridge map for 'deep' editing of the MS-3 is required. But you just want to read what the MS-3 sends out, so hence you don't need the MS-3 Bridge.

Note it's possible to turn all bridges OFF using the PC Assistant. I don't think you need any Bridge at all for what you are seeking to do. I think it would make life easier for you to just turn them off.

Regarding the driver problems I have no clue what is wrong with you PC.

Remember to edit each and every MS-3 patch with what it should transmit and that GP-10 only listens to CH 1

Well, from this end of the process, 'everything' is confusing.. On the other (success) side of things, I'm sure it won't be confusing at all.. Such is the way of learning things...  ;D

The plan today, is to set up a table and chair in the studio room with the GP-10, the MS-3, The MIDX-20, and the old windows 7 laptop on it..  Load the editors for all three on the laptop, connect them all together and then see what I can do to get it all taking..

It's been a bunch of years since I played with MIDI and so much of it is kinda foggy, but I dug out an old book that explains everything about MIDI, and once I've had some breakfast and another cup of coffee or two, I can sit down and get to work..

Will start with some blank patches on the MS-3 and build from scratch.. 

Once I've figured out how to get the MS-3 controlling the GP-10 patch changes, then I'll add the Whammy DT and an expression pedal into the mix and try to get the expression pedal to do do patch changes on the whammy via the MS-3, and then once that works, I'll run a MIDI cable to the XR-18 and start messing with getting the MS-3 to turn channels on and off and maybe volume changes...

All the stuff with communicating with a DAW I'm in no hurry for...

Hopefully some of you guys are around over the weekend in case I have questions...  The first successful communication/PC change is the hardest..  after that it should all start making more sense..

I gotta figure out how to use a MIDI monitor too, and how to wire it into the process...

Seems like a spider web from here..  Will be nice to look at it all from the other side..  :P

Thanks,
Mark

MountainCraft

Well, I've run into a problem...

When I try to installs Boss Tone Studio on my Windows 7 laptop, it says that tone studio requires a version of Adobe Air that is not available for your system...

@admin, you said you hated win 10, and used win 7.. 

How did you get Tone Studio to install on your system?

What a royal PITA.. Why can't they just let us download the apps and drivers and let us install them all the old fashioned way (by clicking on the install/setup file)?  Was able to just download and install the GP-10 driver for win 7 though, so there's that... But why bother letting us install the driver, if they won't let us install the actual app it is for?

Thanks,
Mark

admin

#35
In the past few "Windows7 updates - Microsoft heightened security for all third party USB drivers - and I skip most of the forced MS Updates   

QuoteNOTE for WINDOWS 7/8 USERS: Make sure to DEACTIVATE DRIVER SIGNATURE protocol, it's an antiquated security feature. All ROLAND BOSS DRIVERS are Windows approved. Follow the WINDOWS DEVICE DRIVER installation carefully.
WINDOWS will prompt a specific order of ope
I'm signed into my Windows 7 Pro 64 computer as Administrator, and years ago I disabled the requirement for "Microsoft Signed Device Drivers"

Read  GP-10 Driver Ver.1.0.0 Install Instructions for Windows 7  /  Windows Vista
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11568.0;attach=9638

And follow this

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/9b6eee60-855d-47cc-9927-acae3fb6f971/permanently-disable-driver-signature-enforcement-on-win-7-x64?forum=w7itprohardware

MountainCraft

Quote from: admin on June 01, 2019, 09:49:45 AM
In the past few "Windows7 updates - Microsoft heightened security for all third party USB drivers - and I skip most of the forced MS Updates   
I'm signed into my Windows 7 Pro 64 computer as Administrator, and years ago I disabled the requirement for "Microsoft Signed Device Drivers"

Read  GP-10 Driver Ver.1.0.0 Install Instructions for Windows 7  /  Windows Vista
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11568.0;attach=9638

And follow this

https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/9b6eee60-855d-47cc-9927-acae3fb6f971/permanently-disable-driver-signature-enforcement-on-win-7-x64?forum=w7itprohardware

Thanks for that..

Found out how to manually install Adobe Air..  and Tone Studio is installing now... Already installed PC assistant, and Bome SX....  MS-3 Driver and editor/librarian next...

I'll look over what you posted above a little later..  Sounds like it might save me a lot of grief in the future...

Thanks,
Mark

MountainCraft

Okay, everything installed on the old win 7 laptop...

Everything sees everything it's supposed to..

Finally, I can start trying to make it all talk to each other!  ;D

Now breakfast, more coffee, and get to work...

Thanks,
Mark

MountainCraft

Does the GP-10 have to be MIDI enabled somehow or something..

Went into the MS-3 editor/librarian and created 8 patches
26-1 = MIDI ch 1, PC 1   
26-2 = MIDI ch 1, PC 2
26-3 = MIDI ch 1, PC 3
26-4 = MIDI ch 1, PC 4
27-1 = MIDI ch 1, PC 5
27-2 = MIDI ch 1, PC 6
27-3 = MIDI ch 1, PC 7
27-4 = MIDI ch 1, PC 8



Connected the UM one to the laptop and monitoring traffic via Bome SX..
Connected the MS-3 to the top USB slot on the MIDX-20
Connected the GP-10 to the bottom USB slot on the MIDX-20
both UPR and LWR lights on the MIDX-20 are green..

Selected 26-1, nothing happens on the GP-10, same with all the others up through 27-4

Watched the MIDI monitor and it recorded the following
C0 00
C0 01
C0 02
C0 03
C0 04
C0 05
C0 06
C0 07

The MIDI OUT light on the MIDX-20 flashed green every time I changed a patch on the MS-3

So I thought, it's reading MIDI channel '0' so maybe it's offset by one..
I then went back into the MS-3 Editor and changed everything so that:
26-1 = MIDI ch 1, PC 1   
26-2 = MIDI ch 1, PC 2
26-3 = MIDI ch 1, PC 3
26-4 = MIDI ch 1, PC 4
27-1 = MIDI ch 2, PC 5
27-2 = MIDI ch 2, PC 6
27-3 = MIDI ch 2, PC 7
27-4 = MIDI ch 2, PC 8

Plugged the MS-3 back into the MIDX-20 and tried again..
Again, no reaction from the GP-10 for any of the selections
MIDI monitor recorded:
C0 00
C0 01
C0 02
C0 03
C1 04
C1 05
C1 06
C1 07

Tried cycling the power on the GP-10
No change...
So I'm not sure where to go from here..

Does the GK pickup have to be plugged in (It's not)?
Would that cause the GP-10 to not respond?

Thanks,
Mark

admin

QuoteDoes the GP-10 have to be MIDI enabled somehow or something..

Yes

Look in the back of GP-10 owners manual and enable MIDI Program Change Receive

MountainCraft

Manually typed in C1 04 in the MIDI out field of the Bome SX monitor, hit send;

MIDI in light on the MIDX-20 flasehed but nothing happened on the GP-10...

Manually typed in C0 03 hit send and the GP-10 responded with a change to patch 04

So something needs to be done in the MIDX-20 so that what comes in from the MS-3 is transmitted out of the MIDX-20 to the GP-10

Getting closer I think.. ;D

MountainCraft

Quote from: admin on June 01, 2019, 12:28:14 PM
Yes

Look in the back of GP-10 owners manual and enable MIDI Program Change Receive

Okay, will do (although it received via MIDI monitor okay) and try again

MountainCraft

All I see in the manual (looking at the system settings page in the back) relating to MIDI is a section called "Guitar performance MIDI output settings" that appears to be about how the GP-10 will 'send' data rather than receive..

There is a setting for 'on/off' that says "If this is 'OFF' guitar performance data will not be transmitted from MIDI OUT."

Is that what you are talking about? (doesn't sound like it)

Thanks,
Mark

MountainCraft

Tried the 'disable bridge' switch in the PC assistant..
No change in behavior...
MS-3 still causing MIDI OUT LED to flash, but the GP-10 doesn't respond..

MountainCraft

EUREKA!

I changed the setting of the UPR USB port on the MIDX-20 from 'both send and receive' to "Only Receive from a controller"  and now it works!

I just have to remember to offset the PC number by one to get it to select the channel I want..
I suspect there is a way to compensate for that in the MIDX-20 PC assistant though..

Now onto the next challenge...
To control the patches on the Whammy DT using an expression pedal plugged into the MS-3..

This is gonna take more brain power I think..
Need to dig into the MS-3 MIDI controls to see how to assign ranges of CC values to send PC outputs..
(ie CC 001 through 013 = PC 1, and CC 014 through 026 = PC 2, CC 027 through 040 = PC 3, etc.)

I know it can be done, just not how..

After that I need to figure out how to control stuff on the XR-18 via the MS-3, whereas it only responds to 3 fixed MIDI channels, one of which is the same fixed channel the GP-10 responds to.. but if I'm not mistaken the MIDX-20 allows translation from commands on one MIDI channel to be sent out as another MIDI channel, no?

Then I can start customizing everything in both the MS-3 and GP-10, loading custom patches, etc. and go on to finishing my pedal board...

One of three tasks down, 2 to go...

Thanks,
Mark

MountainCraft

Okay, I set the Whammy to ch 5 and am able to send PC changes to it simultaneously when I send PC changes to the GP-10 and it all works, whether whammy DT is plugged into the MIDX-20 MIDI DIN or the MS-3 MIDI DIN..

So that was easy, now to figure out how to use an expression pedal connected to the MS-3 to send PC changes to the Whammy (now that I know the connection/routing is all good)

MountainCraft

I don't think there's enough slots in the MS-3 software to do everything I want to do...

So I either gotta think differently than I am, or I'll have to find a way sending one MIDI message from the MS-3 can result in several different MIDI messages being sent on different channels...

It may involve an arduino or something I can program to do that...  Or maybe there's a little device somewhere that already does, that will fit in a pedal board, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg..

Need to move on to the XR-18, and even there I'll probably have to recall 'snapshots' which I think must be done with on ch 1 (same as the GP-10) so I hope the MIDX-20 can indeed do remapping or whatever to send ch1 out of USB to the GP-10 and ch1 out of the MIDI DIN port of the MS-3 to control the XR-18 (I think it can), and that will leave me the other two MIDI slots in the MS-3 software to control the Whammy DT..

Not able to figure out how to do the expression pedal to program change trick thus far..

Gonna quit for the day and go out on the porch and drink beer and play guitar..   8)

gumtown

You need to be aware that some devices will re-transmit a patch change that they receive, so you can effectively end up with a midi feedback loop.
the GR-55 is known for this when having Midi Receive and midi transmit both enabled to the same device,
exhibiting a very slow user interface or appearing to have 'locked up".
Since USB is bi-directional, carefully choose the required paths.

To my recollection, the GP-10 midi system is rather simple and only receives patch change on channel 1 only (C0).
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

CodeSmart

Well done!

An expression pedal (EV-5) is not normally used for making patch changes PC.
I'd get a dual switch like FS-6 or FS-7 instead.

If you fail doing what you want in the MS-3,you may consider connecting the FS-7 to the MIDX instead.
There's two special MIDX settings:"PC INC+" and "PC DEC-"  for switch A and B you may use.
You can specify the power-on PC value and the min and max PC value, for instance  0-63 (=> 1-64).

One FS will count up the PC and the other will count down. When reaching min or max it will wrap over nicely (just like patch up/down buttons of the GP-10 does)

And yes, the "Translations" tab in PC Assistant allow you to setup conversion of channel numbers.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

MountainCraft

Quote from: CodeSmart on June 02, 2019, 03:02:29 AM
Well done!

An expression pedal (EV-5) is not normally used for making patch changes PC.
I'd get a dual switch like FS-6 or FS-7 instead.

If you fail doing what you want in the MS-3,you may consider connecting the FS-7 to the MIDX instead.
There's two special MIDX settings:"PC INC+" and "PC DEC-"  for switch A and B you may use.
You can specify the power-on PC value and the min and max PC value, for instance  0-63 (=> 1-64).

One FS will count up the PC and the other will count down. When reaching min or max it will wrap over nicely (just like patch up/down buttons of the GP-10 does)

And yes, the "Translations" tab in PC Assistant allow you to setup conversion of channel numbers.

The problem is the number of settings (10 per effect x 4 effects, and each has a PC control number), and it would take 40 patches to cover them all...  I was hoping to set things up so that I only needed 4 patches on the MS-3, or even better to be able to use the 4 switches in manual mode with each selecting an FX mode and then using the pedal to scroll through the available settings of each (then it could all be added to any single patch), and I could scroll through all ten settings of each quickly using the expression pedal.. Simply watch the LEDs on the Whammy as I worked the pedal  (EV-30)...  Saves me from having to bend down and physically turn the knob..

So, I'll have to take a different, simpler, more stripped down approach to all that...   

I haven't even looked into what the Enzo will accept should I get one... Hopefully, it's not stuck on MIDI ch 1 (or 2 or 3) as well...

Need to get this stuff working on my Windows 10 Laptop..  That's the one I'm using for DAW work... Plan to build a dedicated PC (rack mount) for recording this next winter, but for now it's the laptop...