WISH LIST FOR NEXT ROLAND UNIT ? What's your ultimate pedal?

Started by Elantric, February 10, 2008, 08:54:36 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

philjynx

Quote from: arindamliveguitar on August 22, 2022, 07:01:34 AM....a pretty big unit for people who want to play live and use something else for the amp/cab modelling side of things. Just a small format pedal doing guitar pickup models and alternate tunings appeals to a lot of people....
True. The right coders (don't ask me who) could, with more recent DSP chips, cram what you want into a match box nowadays. Much as I love my two gizmos (GR55 & VG99), they both impose a complexity and bewildering array of options that is, more often than not, an obstacle rather than an inspiration. Spontaneity & keeping track of these options tend to be mutually exclusive.

Let's hope someone builds what you're after.  :)

kimyo

Quote from: arindamliveguitar on August 22, 2022, 06:05:12 AMJust a simple pedal format GK input equipped and midi controllable device that just does alternate tunings and guitar models and that does it well and nothing else

this would be a choice piece of gear, especially if it also included balanced outs, usb host and gk output connectors.  it could be relatively tiny as well.

i'd buy one in a second if they were $150.  actually, i'd buy a pair of them.

but i'd also be in the market if it came in around $500.

arindamliveguitar

I hope so too. There is an elegance in simplicity especially if it does just one or two things and does it well. I think pedals like digitech drop are so popular because of that reason. It's probably easier for the makers also to give more attention to individual fuctions if it is not trying to do 10 things. Let's hope someday or the other, we get something like this  :)

Quote from: philjynx on August 22, 2022, 07:19:20 AMTrue. The right coders (don't ask me who) could, with more recent DSP chips, cram what you want into a match box nowadays. Much as I love my two gizmos (GR55 & VG99), they both impose a complexity and bewildering array of options that is, more often than not, an obstacle rather than an inspiration. Spontaneity & keeping track of these options tend to be mutually exclusive.

Let's hope someone builds what you're after.  :)


aliensporebomb

I'm guessing what Roland MIGHT do is a sequel to the GR-55 since it has been by far the most successful GK product that exists.
It wouldn't even be that hard to do - updated sampled sounds and then a subset of the GT-1000 for the guitar models and boom.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

arindamliveguitar

Maybe a SPDIF output too so that we can minimize that tiny bit of AD/DA latency in case we are using a lot of pitch shifting  :D

Quote from: kimyo on August 22, 2022, 07:27:00 AMthis would be a choice piece of gear, especially if it also included balanced outs, usb host and gk output connectors.  it could be relatively tiny as well.

i'd buy one in a second if they were $150.  actually, i'd buy a pair of them.

but i'd also be in the market if it came in around $500.

pasha811

I am dreaming of a successor to GP10.
I would add midi out (even with TRS) some capabilities from the SY series as Dynamic Synth (as an optional synth type) and a send return loop.  8)
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

gumtown

Would like to see a successor to the GR-55,
 but not diminished in any way, including the USB memory stick file player,
 but also using the same USB memory stick for PCM Synth1 to PCM synth 4 "User PCM samples".
And a bonus would be a sequencer/arp effect like in the SY-1000 but can also do wave sequencing (different wav partial for each sequencer step).
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

szilard

Quote from: gumtown on August 23, 2022, 11:16:19 PMWould like to see a successor to the GR-55,
 but not diminished in any way, including the USB memory stick file player,
 but also using the same USB memory stick for PCM Synth1 to PCM synth 4 "User PCM samples".
And a bonus would be a sequencer/arp effect like in the SY-1000 but can also do wave sequencing (different wav partial for each sequencer step).
Yes, I would really like the ability to have a bank of user PCM samples - wav files in sfz format or something.

Elantric

Submit your wishes and Ill discuss with Roland/Boss at 2024 Winter NAMM

arkieboy

#1009
Quote from: Elantric on January 07, 2024, 10:38:43 AMSubmit your wishes and Ill discuss with Roland/Boss at 2024 Winter NAMM
For me, three things:
  • I'm really happy with the GM-800.  But I want to be able to edit it properly without having to pay for a full professional sub to Roland Cloud - it's just too f%@*in' expensive!  There are several ways they might do this - honestly I'd be content if I could use my GM-800 as a dongle for Zenology Pro (especially if I could import sounds from my GM-800 to tweak them).  I'd be happier if they added the SysEx to the 800 so someone could develop an editor, ecstatic if they also developed an enhanced BTS that could edit the core tones.
  • I'm not going to consider properly moving to GK serial until they have a kit to permanently install it into a guitar.  So I'd like to see one of those.
  • For the next GK serial product I'd like them to swap the OSC synth for AIRD and IR loading in the SY-1000 and call it SY-800.  But if we had a product that complimented the GM-800 and the GT-1000 Core with guitar modelling and dynamic synth, that would do.  BTW can the next dynamic synth have (the option of) more traditional envelope parameters, and the faux release envelope you could make with the VG99 hold?

Finally, if they really want to take my money, then making the 800 a fully paid up member of the Zen-CORE ecosystem so I can use (and edit) the ABM models with it will open my wallet in an instant.  Jupiter 4 please!
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

loopman

For me, only ONE DREAM : the SY 800!!  🤞🤞🤞

A worthy successor to that Nobel Prize-winning masterpiece called SY 300, with updated and expanded features like the latest Boss effects, more synth Osc types and especially using only the normal jack cable of our guitars and basses! Without any GK 3 or GK 5 TRS cable

whippinpost91850

#1011
A way updated GR55, with similar sax, horn, organ, piano sounds, but with the mono switch the GM-800 has. Way updated guitar and amp tones.

luca9583

Here are my wishes:

Updates for the SY-1000

-Bring back all the missing effects from the VG and VB-99, including Poly Harmony, Poly Ring Mod (for both guitar and bass modes)

-Autoriff effect from the GT-10 with User riff patterns per preset

- Improved Intelligent Ring Mod tracking in Bass Mode, when using it with the normal input. This tracked the low B string better in the VB-99.

- Assignable note/pitch follower per string to any parameter, so that for example, the note E2 one one string could send out a Midi CC message while the note G4 on another string could activate an effect in the unit.

Dynamic Synth: proper control of envelope, attack, sustain, release etc

-SY-1000 Core: a brain only version without any footswitches but with full functionality.

- A GK pickup with adjustable individual string height and string spacing and a flat radius..compatible with existing GK internal kit boards. Perfect for fanned fret or tapping instruments or any instrument with unconventional string spacing.

- User instrument modelling. A simple process that allows you to profile the strings from your own instruments (one string at a time via the normal input) so that you can create your own Cosm models.

szilard

Quote from: luca9583 on January 07, 2024, 06:52:49 PMDynamic Synth: proper control of envelope, attack, sustain, release etc

I'm curious how you recommend implementing release with a hex/piezo pickup? On a keyboard you release the key, what about hex/piezo pickup?

IMH1234

Quote from: szilard on January 08, 2024, 08:32:20 AMI'm curious how you recommend implementing release with a hex/piezo pickup? On a keyboard you release the key, what about hex/piezo pickup?

This would be a game changer. It can be done but needs a rethink as to the approach to envelopes for guitar synth not just importing ADSR thinking to the problem.

I would propose correct guitar synth envelope behaviour needs two elements - 1) envelope follower for each string to pressure - basically MPE control and 2) Gate/trigger used to control more traditional synth envelope. The trick is in the parameters to allowing flexible merging and ratios of these two so they a) follow the guitar envelope and b) build in the synth envelope. This is not especially complex but is more a Buchla than Moog approach to CV/CC control. For modelled sounds would need something akin to the freeze function on the VG99 to allow tones to sound longer than the string but that tech already exists in old Roland devices - probably better for synth tones than realistic guitar modelling but not massively challenging

szilard

Sorry, that should have been sustain. So, sustain would only be as long as the string vibrates, although there can still be release after that.

Kevin M

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that 1.09 will be the final firmware update for the SY1000, but...I'd like to see the OSC synth's latency and 'glitchiness' get some attention in a future firmware update.

IMH1234

Quote from: szilard on January 08, 2024, 12:15:57 PMSorry, that should have been sustain. So, sustain would only be as long as the string vibrates, although there can still be release after that.

Same approach would address this - as long as the system detects a trigger the hold function should facilitate sustain (or indeed any stage of a more complex envelope - DAHSHDHR anyone?) - what it would sound like is a different matter - quite glitchy I would guess

szilard

Quote from: IMH1234 on January 08, 2024, 12:39:14 PMSame approach would address this - as long as the system detects a trigger the hold function should facilitate sustain (or indeed any stage of a more complex envelope - DAHSHDHR anyone?) - what it would sound like is a different matter - quite glitchy I would guess
I use a pedal for the hold function. Are you suggesting you need some midi trigger (pedal or other controller) to signal end of sustain? And for polyphony one for each string?

vanceg

Quote from: Elantric on January 07, 2024, 10:38:43 AMSubmit your wishes and Ill discuss with Roland/Boss at 2024 Winter NAMM
Well, I assume I'll be right there standing next to you Steve (looking forward to seeing you) but to join in:

Cross between the VG-99 and SY-1000 with a focus on hexaphonic processing.  Two to three separate modeled instruments/signal chains.  Focus on Poly type processing, modeling and SY-10000 Polysynth type synthesis (as contrased with pitch to midi based PCM triggering).   This unit should have multiple slots for POLY type effects which should be able to be chained from one to another.

IMH1234

Quote from: szilard on January 08, 2024, 01:28:50 PMI use a pedal for the hold function. Are you suggesting you need some midi trigger (pedal or other controller) to signal end of sustain? And for polyphony one for each string?

No just suggesting implementing more sophisticated envelopes (which may need some built in sustain feature to allow synth like sustain/release on non midi units) would open the floodgates for advanced sound design - the current implementation is mired in treating guitar synth as either a processed (i.e. modelled) guitar or substitute midi keyboard controller rather than as an instrument in itself. Not sure I am expressing the concept well - I am only talking about sound design features - not traditional guitar/amp modelling. If Roland implemented this approach both within the unit it could transform the expressive capabilities of these units for synthesists

IMH1234

It's late here in the UK and it has been a long day - I think I am struggling to explain this one tonight - will maybe try to articulate it better in the morning

pasha811

Where I would spend my money on?

A successor to GP-10 or if the platform has been abandoned an 800 format will do.
In case it will remain the GP10 format I'd call for several improvements :

1. Fix and extend OSC and add separate ADSR for both Oscillators as well as one additional VCF so that structures can be implemented providing different way to link Oscillators together with VCF, LFO, Envelops

2. Expand FX Blocks to 4.

3. Add a Dynamic Synth Block that can be used in parallel with Guitar Modeling channel as well as with OSC

4. Add a Shimmer Reverb Type as in GT1000 core

5. MIDI IN OUT 5 pins interface and Send/Return jacks and block

6. GK3 IN and GK5 Serial Interface IN/OUT (why no GK3 out? Well... because that is the trademark at Roland stay a little behind what it could be the perfect product   ;D )

7. CTRL3/4 and EXP2 jacks

8. the Natural PU Guitar signal should remain unchanged as it is today.

In case the 800 format will be preferred, after having included all of the above,
I expected a BT native interface so we can use the BT Expression Pedal boss provides.
With BT an Android / iOS app to manipulate patches will be a great cool feature. 

Having said that I love my VG99 and GP10!  :)
   
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

IMH1234

To clarify and build on my rather garbled previous posts have attempted to summarise my thoughts on what my wish list for Roland would be. Apologies for the long post - it is actually just two requests that are individually quite simple in concept but take lots of words to explain...

These ideas are entirely centred around the potential of the hex guitar ecosystem for guitar synthesis, specifically the creation of complex sounds playable expressively using the guitar that cannot be produced by a standard instrument/amp combination. As such am not addressing guitar/amp modelling, effects, room simulation , etc. as these are a different use case or can be added with separate units/engines. Am also not looking at this from the perspective of midi capability. Whilst this is a useful feature to control external synths, DAWs, etc. the standard midi protocol is not well suited to a guitar synth which in my view needs considering as a dedicated sound creation system based around the capabilities of the guitar as a controller

Also, I have tried to keep this in the bounds of the tech that Roland have or reasonably might produce so no request here for a $20K monster analogue guitar poly synth with digital FM and granular engines and 4U Buchla format modular compatibility (but feel free to propose this if they seem receptive)

1) Tone Generation
Objective - latency free flexible core synth tones
Suggestion:
Two or Three Oscillator blocks (voices?)
Each block has two components - a modelled tone and a synth tone
Modelled tone is basically VG/SY COSM/HRM sound engine that does usable synth tones based on the guitar waveform with no latency (but maybe a few random warbles)
Synth tone similar to GM800 (although please make all parameters accessible in hardware)
Here is the key bit - for each block a cross morph parameter sets where one merges into the other. This allows the player to use the VG sound for the attack portion of a sound and the synth tone (which will inherently have some latency) for the core sound. Option cross morph either way between the two between say 0ms and 2 seconds would enable expressive synth tones with no latency as a core for building patches

2) Expressive control
Objective - expressive control and sound design
GK pickups would seem to already allow the devices to recognise a number of playing gestures:

Gate - String sounding
Trigger - relative level against threshold
Envelope - the volume level of the strong played
Frequency - pitch
Harmonic content - where/how string is played

These have all been exploited in existing devices to trigger envelopes, crossfade between voices trigger tones, etc. but in a rather inconsistent and random way.

Suggestion:
Consistent expression implementation across oscillator blocks (voices)
The above gestures should all be available as assignable trigger/modulation sources (as a minimum to amplitude and filter envelopes (ideally any parameter) and also allow mixing of these modulation sources.
So for example, gate triggers a user defined ADSR envelope that can be mixed (via say a simple 'or' function) with the natural guitar envelope. This would create an amazing array of envelopes possibilities that respond to different picking dynamics

The thought of applying audio rate pitch modulation to the filters (mixed with an envelope) makes me giddy to even think about the implications - at the moment audio rate modulation on the VG 99 is possible but not very controllable

Add in LFOs to this proposed modulation matrix and it gets really powerful and is still within the bounds of what Roland already produce

Previously I suggested that for the COSM/HRM tones this would need some sort of hold function but with the proposal under 1 above this would not be needed as the GM800 type element would deal with the sustain/release elements.

I will stop there as I think this would be enough to create the dream guitar synth unit - I will await being brought back to reality with what they actually produce - I accept my needs are maybe a bit of an outlier compared to most users

Elantric

#1024
I wish they would focus on a product that instantly behaves and reacts to my playing styles and touch the best. The VG-99 was the last unit that fullfilled that for me.

Since then, lately they deliver units which work fantastic for  80% of the possible features.
But its the terrible 20% of buggy non working / non-present features that become the focus of discussion on internet, that overshadows the units strengths, and kills interest among the newbies.
( Who decided to omit MIDI I/O from the GP-10?)
(Who decided to omit a normal 1/4" Guitar Input on GR-55? )

They need a "general user mode" , where everything works, lowest latency, no mistriggers , perfect alt tuning tracking, even for fretless users for all available user accessible functions.

USB CLASS COMPLIANT MODE- for open access to all operating systems

Then a  secret menu "unlocked" un-harnessed Advanced  Pro Sound designer mode, that allows the almost working , but still buggy new sounds.

Just be able for the operating system firmware  to block out and  disable those potential "mine field of dissatisfaction" high risk of failure functions.