USB-C and adapters nightmare - good article to share

Started by pasha811, November 02, 2016, 01:02:09 AM

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pasha811

I have found this article and I thought it could have been good to share.
The future of connection looks dark to me, more complex than what we have today

http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c-thunderbolt-3/

Have a read.
Go for comments!
Thanks
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

carlb

#1
One thing you can be certain of: the more things change, the more they remain things. 'The Upgrade Remains the Same.' Sitting this song out for a while at least.

A cluster-cable-muck, all toward buying tons of new cables.

The 2011 Macbook Pro hot-rodded to 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD still kicks out the jams, m-fs!
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

GuitarBuilder

#2
What I got out of this is something we've know for years:

Don't buy cheap cables!  Most of his issues are because of his choice of crappy cables.

If you stick with the computer manufacturer's cables, there is no confusion or compatibility issue.

Furthermore, it is ridiculous to assume that a laptop manufacturer who is under pressure from consumers to produce thin, lightweight devices can still provide a multitude of different ports for peripherals.  The "universal" port idea has been coming for a long time and for Apple it is Thunderbolt 3; most users don't connect multiple peripherals - those who need to typically get a dock with Ethernet, USB, Display port, etc.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Elantric

#3
Quoteit is ridiculous to assume that a laptop manufacturer who is under pressure from consumers to produce thin, lightweight devices

IMHO - Therein lies the fallacy. the "push to thin and lightweight is killing my desire for a new computer.

My old computer (with lots of I/O ports)  works just fine, and my most recent PC purchase is running great thanks to its robust DOCk - which is getting rare in 2016.

2013 Dell Latitude 12" E7240 with E-Port Plus Dock



I never requested my next computer be super thin and light weight


Problem is that design requirement for (Super thin and super light weight) for all new computers is what is making my choice for a new computer really difficult.

But I'm in the 1% who still uses DB-9 RS-232 and Centronics Parallel DB25 Printer ports
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centronics
   

Elantric

#4
The Follow-up Article has better information
http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/30/2016-macbook-pro-usb-cthunderbolt-survival-guide/
2016 MacBook Pro USB-C/Thunderbolt Survival Guide
October 30, 2016 by Stephen 14 Comments

So you bought a late-2016 MacBook Pro? Congratulations! So did I! But how will you connect your favorite monitor, hard drives, and other accessories to those pesky new USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 ports? Read on for my "survival guide", listing the essential cables and accessories you should (and shouldn't) buy to go with your new MacBook Pro!

Sadly, Apple appears not to have included the Thunderbolt icon on the new MacBook Pro ports, creating even more customer confusion!


Your new MacBook Pro includes up to 4 Thunderbolt 3-capable USB Type-C ports. These things can do quite a lot but you must be careful about what cables and accessories you buy!
Revisiting USB Type-C and Thunderbolt 3

USB Type-C ports can support a variety of protocols, with each level backwards compatible to the levels beneath it


I wrote a very popular article on this topic. For more information, read Total Nightmare: USB-C and Thunderbolt 3!
Here's the TL;DR on those USB Type-C ports on the side of your new MacBook Pro:

You have two to four USB Type-C ports on your MacBook Pro. "USB-C" is a port and cable spec, but those ports are capable of a lot more than just USB! They're where you connect power, video, peripherals, and docking stations.
Unlike the 2015 12″ Retina MacBook, which has USB-only ports, your late-2016 MacBook Pro has Thunderbolt 3 ports which can do a whole lot more! They're eight times faster, for one thing, and support higher video resolution.1
It doesn't matter which of the USB-C ports you use for power. Pick whichever one is convenient. But many third-party USB-C power adapters and docking stations won't be compatible with your Mac. This is especially true if you bought the 15″ MacBook Pro, which requires 87 Watts and a cable rated for that much, which is more than typical for USB-C cables.2
Late-2016 MacBook Pro Cable Necessities

Since there is a limited assortment of accessories available for the late-2016 MacBook Pro, I thought I would outline the necessities to order along with your new Mac. No doubt better selections will become apparent soon.

You'll need adapters for existing video and peripherals. You should pick your adapters and cables very carefully, since there are often multiple options for a given connection. I'll try to stick with the best choice, as defined by the fastest, most-compatible, and least-complex, though not necessarily the cheapest.

Power

It's best to use Apple's USB-C power adapters, since interoperability of USB-C Power Delivery is at a very early stage. Apple makes good power adapters, and you know they're going to work. Plus, the Apple power adapters aren't any more expensive than third-party options.

Apple's 61-Watt USB Power Adapter is the one to buy for the late-2016 13" MacBook Pro
Apple's $69 61-Watt USB Power Adapter is the one to buy for the late-2016 13″ MacBook Pro
Apple's 87-Watt USB Power Adapter is the one to buy for the late-2016 15" MacBook Pro
Apple's $79 87-Watt USB Power Adapter is the one to buy for the late-2016 15″ MacBook Pro
Buy a high-quality cable for charging and connectivity like the Monoprice Select Series 3.1
Buy a high-quality cable for charging and connectivity like the Monoprice Select Series 3.1
Note that Apple's power adapters do not come with cables and that most USB-C cables can't support the power draw of a MacBook Pro, especially the 15″, 87 Watt model. For this reason, and to avoid confusion in the cable bag, I recommend buying the Apple USB-C cable to go along with your Apple power adapter. Again, Apple's cable is only a few bucks more expensive than similar third-party options. Do not buy the Apple USB Charge Cable (2 m) since it's a USB 2.0-only data cable. Instead, I recommend buying a high-quality cable like the Monoprice Select Series 3.1 USB-C to USB-C cable. It supports fast data transfer and a full 100 Watts of charging for just $18 or $25.

Also, the Power Adapter no longer comes with the 1.8 Meter extension cable. If you want one of those, I recommend buying the bulk-packaged cable from OWC for just $6.79. I've got a few of these.

Therefore, your expenditure for an additional power adapter will be $87 to $110.79, depending on what you buy.

DisplayPort Video

DisplayPort is a bit more advanced than HDMI at this point, even though the MacBook Pro only supports DisplayPort version 1.2. If your monitor supports DisplayPort, it's best to connect directly to it using a USB-C Alternate Mode to DisplayPort cable rather than using a dock or adapter. This $35 cable from Monoprice allows the USB-C port to switch to a native DisplayPort connection, sending the raw signal to the monitor, with no additional cables needed.

This USB-C to DisplayPort cable from Monoprice ought to be the best way to connect to a DisplayPort monitor
This USB-C to DisplayPort cable from Monoprice ought to be the best way to connect to a DisplayPort monitor
You could also try the Monoprice Select Series USB-C to DisplayPort adapter for just $15.

HDMI Video

If you have a monitor that only supports HDMI, you might be tempted to buy the Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter. But the reviews are really, really bad, so I wouldn't spend $69 on that. Especially for 15″ MacBook Pro owners, since it won't pass more than 60 Watts. Instead, I will be purchasing the Monoprice Select Series USB-C to HDMI adapter for just $15.

This cheap $15 Monoprice adapter ought to extract native HDMI from the USB-C port
This cheap $15 Monoprice adapter ought to extract native HDMI from the USB-C port
USB-C Peripherals

You should have a few good-quality USB-C cables around in case you need one. Frankly, the official Apple USB-C to USB-C cable, at just $19, is a great choice. It's actually cheaper than the Monoprice "Select Series" equivalent, though their shorter palette cable is only $15.

Don't waste your money on cheaper cables, since many can't handle the data or power that USB-C is capable of delivering. Definitely do not buy "2.0" cables, since they don't even have all the wires connected inside!

Thunderbolt

If you have existing Thunderbolt peripherals, you're in luck! Your new late-2016 MacBook Pro should be fully compatible with them. Just buy the Apple Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter for $49. It works with all existing Thunderbolt peripherals – not just Thunderbolt 2 but the original Thunderbolt, too!

This $49 dongle allows you to use your existing Thunderbolt peripherals with your new late-2016 MacBook Pro
This $49 dongle allows you to use your existing Thunderbolt peripherals with your new late-2016 MacBook Pro
As Thunderbolt 3 peripherals begin to appear, your late-2016 MacBook Pro should work with most of them. But remember – you must use a Thunderbolt 3 cable, not just any old USB-C cable! Apple likes the Belkin cables, but the StarTech cables are cheaper and I've had great luck with their previous-generation Thunderbolt cables.

Existing USB 3.0 Peripherals

I'm still a little nervous about "native" USB-C hubs and docks. After all, the early USB 3.0 devices were pretty flaky. Instead, I bought a few USB-C to USB 3.0 adapters and will be using my existing collection of USB 3.0 devices.

I like the idea of the little integrated USB-C to 3.0 USB-A adapters, but the initial reviews have been poor. I bought the Monoprice Select Series USB 3.0 USB-C Male to USB-A Female pigtail for $8 and it works great. In fact, I bought five of them for the whole office!

This little $8 cable lets you connect existing USB 3.0 devices to the USB-C port
This little $8 cable lets you connect existing USB 3.0 devices to the USB-C port
I also picked up a USB 3.0 USB-C to USB Micro B cable for $6 to use with my USB 3.0 portable hard disk drives. No use carrying around an adapter when the exact correct cable is available! You can also get a USB 3.0 USB-C to USB-B cable for $6 to connect to a full-size USB 3.0 device like my Drobo S.

USB 2.0 Devices

You can just connect your USB 2.0 devices to the USB 3.0 adapter cable above, or you can buy the right cable for the job. I bought a selection: USB 2.0 USB-C to USB Micro B, USB 2.0 USB-C to USB Mini B, and USB 2.0 USB-C to USB-B. At less than $5 per cable, it makes sense to have a set of these on hand.

Stephen's Shopping List

Expect to spend another $100 or more on cables, dongles, and adapters to get the most from your already-expensive new MacBook Pro. Although USB-C peripherals will become more common in the coming year, I expect my recommendations for video and power adapters will likely hold true for years to come. And I doubt that Thunderbolt 3 will be any more popular than earlier versions of the protocol.

Here's my MacBook Pro shopping list:

Apple 87 Watt Power Adapter, $79
Apple 2M USB-C to USB-C Power Cable, $19
Monoprice USB-C to DisplayPort Cable, $35
Monoprice Select USB-C to HDMI Adapter, $15
Monoprice Select USB 3.0 USB-C to USB-A Female Cable, $8
Monoprice USB 3.0 USB-C to USB Micro B Cable, $6
USB 2.0 USB-C to USB Micro B, $5
USB 2.0 USB-C to USB Mini B, $5
USB 2.0 USB-C to USB-B, $5
Yeah, that's $177 in cables. Just to get started. But I really didn't need the extra power adapter and cable, and could have skipped many of the others. In fact, I bet I could get by with just the $8 USB-C to USB-A Female Cable! That's the one really indispensable cable! And you probably want an HDMI Adapter or a DisplayPort adapter – Monoprice has you covered for just $15! So the real minimum expense for your new Mac is just $23. Not as bad as people say, eh?

Note: I don't get any kickbacks from any of these links. This is simply what I selected and bought. Buy whatever you want from wherever you like. I like Monoprice, despite criticizing them mightily in my previous post...

The 2015 MacBook with Retina Display has one USB Type-C port supporting USB 3.1 gen 1 connectivity, good for 5 Gbps of USB data and 60 Watts of power. The late-2016 MacBook Pro boasts two or four Thunderbolt 3 ports, supporting USB 3.1 gen 2 connectivity, good for 32 Gbps of Thunderbolt data, 10 Gbps of USB data, up to 87 Watts of power, and a whole lot more! ↩
If you connect multiple power sources to your MacBook Pro, it will select one and ignore the rest. If you connect a lower-power brick to your 15″ MacBook Pro, it will charge more slowly or not at all. ↩

GuitarBuilder

I have several college kids and they are the 99% who like light-weight thin computers because they have to lug them around all day!  Plus they hardly ever connect anything else besides the power adapter.  They don't even own USB sticks; everything is uploaded via wireless.

One of them studies architecture and needed a larger monitor; interestingly enough the Apple Displays (and others) also act as a dock of sorts, offering a number of additional ports in the back, including Ethernet.  Since the Thunderbolt monitors have been discontinued, you can pick them up for a great price on eBay!  Apple is recommending LG 4K and 5K monitors.

Elantric - I'm afraid I can't help you with DB-9 and DB-25!  ;D ;D
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

carlb

"But I'm in the 1% who still uses DB-9 RS-232 and Centronix Parallel DB25 Printer ports"

Back before continental drift, I was newbie engineer at Votrax Inc, in Troy Michigan. Famous provider of "At the tone, the time will be ...", the "Type-n-Talk" text to speech box, etc.

I forget what the peripheral was, but had dubbed it "unsafe-at-any-baud," and it stuck.

RTS, CTS, DSR Forever!
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

Elantric

#7
When not on my Mac, I still use many Engineering Eval board / J-TAG adapters for new product design cycles and many still use old school PC ports






But I realize to folks under age 30,  many of my crucial tools resemble other "stale technology" tools:


pasha811

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on November 02, 2016, 11:13:11 AM
I have several college kids and they are the 99% who like light-weight thin computers because they have to lug them around all day!  Plus they hardly ever connect anything else besides the power adapter.  They don't even own USB sticks; everything is uploaded via wireless.

One of them studies architecture and needed a larger monitor; interestingly enough the Apple Displays (and others) also act as a dock of sorts, offering a number of additional ports in the back, including Ethernet.  Since the Thunderbolt monitors have been discontinued, you can pick them up for a great price on eBay!  Apple is recommending LG 4K and 5K monitors.

Elantric - I'm afraid I can't help you with DB-9 and DB-25!  ;D ;D

You're right. The Cloud, not only iCloud is the new storage. With current wifi speeds it's even fast enough. However when you step back from college students, Business people (thin an long lasting battery) and photographers on the go... the tiny space of the internal SSD becomes limited and we need big Libraries (Ableton 9 and 8 combined it's about 100 GB) and multi sampled instruments... so we need external storage. I think thin it's a a good way to go, the future is 'always on' and the difference between a mobile and a laptop/notebook will narrow but... yes there's a but... one size fits all does not convince me. Not replaceable parts, no after sales upgrades it's no good for professionals and let me say it. It's not even good for the environment. I see Apple through an identity crisis. iPad Pro vs MacBooks.. and no innovation...the touch bar might amuse some but for the money I prefer a Mid 2012 Macbook 13" (HDD already replaced and the same goes for RAM) that's the one I am using now. Yes it's bulgy, yes it's heavy but with 2 USB 3.0 ports an (ouch) FW800 it's capable of all the wonders I need for Ableton Live and it's next life will be with a SSD and even more RAM. I agree with Elantric, thin doesn't make me want to buy one.     
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

carlb

Lookit all that through-hole. That's a man's technology. None of this danged SMT stuff!
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

whippinpost91850

Carlb , where in Michigan do you live. I live in the Holly area. Paul(Whippinpost91850)

carlb

Now in St. Paul, MN since the early nineties. :^)

Do get back to Ann Arbor every other year or so ...
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

aliensporebomb

Finally another Minnesota person visits the board.  Welcome!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

carlb

ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

whippinpost91850

Cool. Not far from Aliensporebomb. Just curious thanks Paul

CodeSmart

Again out of topic, but I'm sure me and Brak(E)man would fit well in Minnesota. Probably share some genes with some Minnesotans. At the end of 19th century things were really dreadful around here in Sweden. 1.5 Millions emigrated, mostly to US and Minnesota. Only a fifth returned.
But I got more gear than I need...and I like it!

carlb

Swedish versus Norwegian friendly rivalry came over here big-time. My kids - "mixed-marriage" grandparents - Swedish/Norwegian  - reta/uffda! Go to a Lutefisk feed, and the Swedish sides of families complain about the smell and only eat the meatballs. Well, the lefse and potatoes too, hah!

You want längdskidåkning and ice fishing shacks, you're all set here.  :)
ES Les Paul, internal Roland GK
Boss SY-1000, Valeton Coral Amp pedal
Morningstar MC8 & MC6
QSC CP8 powered speaker

mooncaine

Warning: an old-man rant is about to start here: beware any gift that eats, like a puppy, a horse, or a new computer.

I was just issued a new "MacBook Pro" laptop at work. Those are irony quotes. It doesn't seem very pro to me.

On the plus side, it's new. It has a headphone jack. And it's given me an excuse to spend office time visiting this forum for help!

On the minus side: Every new discovery I make about this laptop is yet another extra cost for me.

It only has USB-C ports. 4 of them, but only 3 will be available most of the time because #4 will be power.

I'll need adapters for everything. I'm hoping other similarly "lucky" players here have already tried a few and can recommend for/against some.

I need adapters for:

USB-C to the normal, backwards-compatible USB "A" plug, so I can plug in my GT-1, my VG-99, or my USB audio or midi interfaces.

USB-C to FireWire.

USB-C to Thunderbolt X 1, minimum. Really 2.

USB-C to HDMI x 1.

Crap, that's already more than $100 of adapters. It's also a smaller screen and it's half the HD space. Yeesh, I just want to give it back and say 'no, thanks,' but it's not really up to me. I'm lucky to get anything!

Oh, and no card reader. I just ordered a card reader earlier this week. Now it, too, needs an adapter before I can even use it.

I can't even set up the stinking thing until I buy adapters that let me connect my external drives. Will it even run VG-99 Editor? My Mac Pro kernel panicked today instead of running VG-99 Editor. That Mac Pro has the latest Sierra patches (that machine's not my own, either, & I must submit to that creepy remote administration that central IT depts love so much).

Elantric

#18
Start here
http://blog.fosketts.net/2016/10/29/total-nightmare-usb-c-thunderbolt-3/


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C
https://www.cnet.com/how-to/usb-type-c-thunderbolt-3-one-cable-to-connect-them-all/

https://www.howtogeek.com/211843/usb-type-c-explained-what-it-is-and-why-youll-want-it/


USB-C and adapters nightmare - good article to share
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19464.msg139256#msg139256

Bottom line = USB-C has MANY different implementations.
For example, Dont expect to buy a USB-C to Firewire adapter and expect it to work with your Chromebook or LG V20 smartphone

Elantric

Quote from:  mooncaine on April 28, 2017, 12:36:08 PM
Warning: an old-man rant is about to start here: beware any gift that eats, like a puppy, a horse, or a new computer.

I was just issued a new "MacBook Pro" laptop at work. Those are irony quotes. It doesn't seem very pro to me.

On the plus side, it's new. It has a headphone jack. And it's given me an excuse to spend office time visiting this forum for help!

On the minus side: Every new discovery I make about this laptop is yet another extra cost for me.

It only has USB-C ports. 4 of them, but only 3 will be available most of the time because #4 will be power.

I'll need adapters for everything. I'm hoping other similarly "lucky" players here have already tried a few and can recommend for/against some.

I need adapters for:

USB-C to the normal, backwards-compatible USB "A" plug, so I can plug in my GT-1, my VG-99, or my USB audio or midi interfaces.

USB-C to FireWire.

USB-C to Thunderbolt X 1, minimum. Really 2.

USB-C to HDMI x 1.

Crap, that's already more than $100 of adapters. It's also a smaller screen and it's half the HD space. Yeesh, I just want to give it back and say 'no, thanks,' but it's not really up to me. I'm lucky to get anything!

Oh, and no card reader. I just ordered a card reader earlier this week. Now it, too, needs an adapter before I can even use it.

I can't even set up the stinking thing until I buy adapters that let me connect my external drives. Will it even run VG-99 Editor? My Mac Pro kernel panicked today instead of running VG-99 Editor. That Mac Pro has the latest Sierra patches (that machine's not my own, either, & I must submit to that creepy remote administration that central IT depts love so much).

Consider ordering one of these



OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock $299
13 ports. Endless possibilities.
Includes 0.5 m Thunderbolt 3 40Gb/s USB-C cable.
https://eshop.macsales.com/preorder/owc-thunderbolt-3-dock/?_ga=2.147830391.1934961928.1493408671-358540474.1487967286

Elantric

QuoteI can't even set up the stinking thing until I buy adapters that let me connect my external drives. Will it even run VG-99 Editor? My Mac Pro kernel panicked today instead of running VG-99 Editor. That Mac Pro has the latest Sierra patches .

Forget using it for VG-99

mooncaine

Thanks, Elantric! I'll probably ask the boss for that dock. Will probably have to buy my own for home. Dammit, that was my new pickups money, down the drain.

I'll spend the afternoon reading those links you shared.

I'm bummed about not being able to use VG-99 Editor. Do you know if I can make a Yosemite boot volume for this new MBP (or is it locked so I can't use earlier OSes?) My early search results suggest "no."


Elantric

start here
https://discussions.apple.com/community/notebooks/macbook_pro

but AFAIK - you can not downgrade the OS on a new 2016 ( or newer) Macbook Pro

mooncaine

Thought so.  >:( Very bummed about losing ability to edit and share VG-99 patches. Thanks for your help, though!

mooncaine

Excellent news! Looks like the VG-99 tools are running on the new MacBook Pro (though opening the Editor will reliably crash my Mac Pro at the office with an instant kernel panic).

I am actually able to do all these things on the new MBP running macOS Sierra:

1. Install the VG-99 driver, Editor and Librarian
2. Attach the VG-99 using Apple's USB-C to USB adapter (MJ1M2AM/A)
3. Use the VG-99 Editor to edit patch, real-time, and save it, and reload it, and write it to the VG-99.
4. Use the VG-99 Librarian to read patches, save the library, and to write patches to the VG. I also tested (successfully) the ability to write GK and System settings to the VG.

Thanks for your help, folks. I am still cautiously, gradually acquiring adapters for this new MBP, thanks to Elantric's links to articles and tips. This is the first piece of USB gear I've tried with it.