VG-8 - VIO Guitar :: The Rescue - VST plugin + GP-10 six channels audio approach

Started by dblacha, November 29, 2014, 06:12:28 PM

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dblacha

Hi there,

I'm so sad...

I have all Roland's VG series units. All, without the GR-55. Even the rare WP-20G and the last Boss GP-10.
A few days ago, I switched back to the VG-8... Just for the test if my old unit is still working.
And I checked the VIO patches... "WOW, what musical it is !!!" What complicated and sensitive for a way I'm playing !

Now. after a few days of playing with the VIO, I can not play any "synth" patch on V-88+ again.
All them seems to be so plastic compared with the VIO ! Even on the VG-99 !

Why Roland, Why ?! Why did you forget the VIO ?!

But... I'm the programmer.
A few years ago, I programmed the VST with the GR-300 algorithm as the VST plugin, the "zero crossing" algorithm, of course as the mono version.
Just for myself, to check if I can do it.

Should we let Roland to waste this genius made VIO algorithm ?
Or maybe we can do something ?


We have a luck now, as the GP-10 is a six audio channels interface, so theoretically, any algorithm we can find on any VGs is possible.
And I can code it. I want to code it.

I think that we, the people of the VG, the forum guys, we should save the VIO from the obvious death in the Roland deep archives.

Can we do something and ask, maybe force Roland to open it?
How do you think about it?

Let's do it please !

Dominik.
VG8 / VG88 / VG99 / WP20G / GP10 / SY1000 / GKP4 / US20 / Sustainiac / EBow

Vade

I'm too new to the game to offer much in the way of help but I'd love to hear a recording if you get inspired.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

dblacha

#2
Quote from: Vade on November 29, 2014, 06:45:26 PM
I'm too new to the game to offer much in the way of help but I'd love to hear a recording if you get inspired.

I'm sorry, I have no recordings using VIO right now, but...
Check it out: ! No longer available
The lead guitar is the VG-8 VIO Guitar
VG8 / VG88 / VG99 / WP20G / GP10 / SY1000 / GKP4 / US20 / Sustainiac / EBow

Elantric

#3
Dominik,

Good ideas, of course the GP-10 provides the one channel per string on OSX, which allows many apps to host six AU/VST


Read the NI Reaktor using hexaphonic guitar thread
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7772.msg54665#msg54665

Vade

Thanks for the link Dominik! Very sweet and well worth duplicating.
Drachen; Fender FTP Strat w/internal GK-3, Godin xtSA w/FTP, Boss GP-10, VoiceLive 3, Scarlett 18i8, ZBox IQ01, On-Lap 1502i, D:fine 4088, 4E Dual Axis Exp Pedal, VoiceSolo FX-150, Yamaha DXR 10, Gem. M2 Flute, Special 20 Harmonicas. Fender Deluxe Reverb Mahogany Cane.

https://soundcloud.com/vadie

Bill Ruppert

Yes I love the chiff sound at the front of the notes.
Thank you for the recording.
The VG-99 will do things like that but not the exact thing.
Its cool they are different, and I love the fact each box has its own sound.
I will say the VG-99 is miles above the GP-10 in that sort of sound arena.
Stack the units up and have the best of all of it.
Bill



Quote from: dblacha on November 29, 2014, 06:55:11 PM
I'm sorry, I have no recordings using VIO right now, but...
Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHaWbTGk0w4&index=1&list=PLEF34B722C277F103
The lead guitar is the VIO itself.

dblacha

#6
Thanks Elantric,

I know this thread, but it is another challenge: how to achieve the VIO sound ?
I have some suspicion that it is some intensive and smart audio signal phase work. Because the 90's DSP wasn't enough fast to do more complicated job.
For an example, the "zero crossing", as the GR-300 sound is, is very simple algorithm. You can build it even on the old 8bit CPU @ 1MHz.

For me, the VIO is The Magic.
All other VG-DSP-made-synths are as analogue VCO vs digital synths.

VG8 / VG88 / VG99 / WP20G / GP10 / SY1000 / GKP4 / US20 / Sustainiac / EBow

Mrchevy

I would experiment with a flute and either an overdrive or sitar mix of some sort. At least thats what I'm hearing in it.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Epi Les Paul Standard
Gibson SG 50's prototype
Squire classic vibe 60's
Epi LP Modern
Epi SG Custom
Martin acoustic

Princeton chorus 210

GT100
GR-55
Helix LT
Waza Air Headphones
Boomerang III

And, a lot of stuff I DON'T need

dblacha

#8
Quote from: Bill Ruppert on November 29, 2014, 07:21:04 PM
The VG-99 will do things like that but not the exact thing.

Bill, I know what you can do even with the simplest instruments on VGs, I'ev listened all your demos, but have you ever played the VG-8 VIO?
For my ears, the VIO is completely different league, completely different DSP approach than the rest meaning HRMs: "wave", "gr-300", "brass", "bass" etc.
I'm sure that it's not possible to replicate on any other VG/GR/GP units.
The VIO have a "live" within. The articulation is equal to normal string sound, but it's so different.
For me it's the only truly innovative algorithm made by Roland, with a huge set of options, it is precious !
I think, Roland never come back to use it, that's why I would like to force Roland to open the code.
VG8 / VG88 / VG99 / WP20G / GP10 / SY1000 / GKP4 / US20 / Sustainiac / EBow

Bill Ruppert

Yes I have played one but it was a long time ago.
I believe you in how great it is.
I should pick up an old one and see.
You are not the one person I have heard rave about it!
Bill

Brak(E)man

swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

dblacha

#11
Great playing Brak(E)man ! Thanks.

Consider that the VG-8 is working on a 16b@39kHz ADDA with the DSP performance maybe on the Motorola 68040 level ...
Imagine how this algorithm would sound on a recent hardware !
Shame Ronald, shame... The GP-10 is a few steps backward... I found the only synth sound usable on it is GR-300 sim.
The WAVE is worse than on the VG-88, not to talk about the VG-99... More or less, the quality of the WAVE is on the level of... the low budged WP-20G from over decade back.
The "OCS" is the biggest crap IMHO. Tracking is OK, however worse than on my GR-33, but the quality of the oscillators is totally under the acceptable level, it's not VA, it's not even good digital OSC. The C-64 had better oscillators and filter.
The only non synth instrument I found is better than any other version is the bass guitar. It's the first version that sounds well and is pretty usable.

But there is NO any other progress :-(

Roland are you listening??!!

Quote from: Brak(E)man on December 01, 2014, 06:07:19 AM
No I'm one that still use the VG8 for that purpose.

https://soundcloud.com/brak-e-man/slow-strings
VG8 / VG88 / VG99 / WP20G / GP10 / SY1000 / GKP4 / US20 / Sustainiac / EBow

Elantric


dblacha

Thanks Elantric,

tracking is indeed quite good and you have a great skill.
But for my ears it sounds like a Casio toy. The cheap one... Sorry :-)
In the world of a great VST plugs, as f.e. the Diva from U-He, it's nothing more than a crap for me and the biggest disappointing of the GP-10 :-(

Quote from: Elantric on December 01, 2014, 07:11:05 AM
GP-10 OSC demo
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11872.msg94572#msg94572
VG8 / VG88 / VG99 / WP20G / GP10 / SY1000 / GKP4 / US20 / Sustainiac / EBow

Elantric

#14
Quotehttps://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11913.0

That was a GP-10 OSC demo by MusicOverGear

Quote
In the world of a great VST plugs, as f.e. the Diva from U-He, it's nothing more than a crap for me and the biggest disappointing of the GP-10 :-(

All depends on what your needs are. At the Group Buy Price  - the GP-10 is the lowest cost entry point into the world of Guitar Modeling  / DSP created Alt Tunings and in those roles its superior than my Line 6 Tyler Variax or prior Roland Gear   -The GP-10's Eight Channel I/O over USB is important for re-guitaring and driving  synths like NI Reaktor  - with no MIDI. And its small size means it goes to more gigs. Ive already used the GP-10 far more than my VG-99 for live gigs  - but I'm not focused on using GP-10  for Synth work. The Ftp works a lot better for me in that role.

Elantric

#15
QuoteRoland are you listening??!!

FWIW we are 100% end users here, and Roland does not participate in any discussions , nor reads them.

The story of VGuitarForums
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=7912.0

Contact Roland directly with your thoughts, as they will never know if you only post here at VGuitarForums

http://www.rolandus.com/blog/2014/03/14/gp-10-guitar-processor/

Roland Corporation U.S.
5100 S. Eastern Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90040-2938
Customer Service Tel: (323) 890-3700

dblacha

#16
Quote from: Elantric on December 01, 2014, 07:53:39 AM
FWIW we are 100% end users here, and Roland does not participate in any discussions , nor reads them.

Contact Roland directly with your thoughts, as they will never know if you only post here.

Oh... Elantric, I know this. I'm on this forum and other VG series forums from the beginnings of VGs.
When Aure was administering his site vg-8.com and maybe this forum also (I don't remember).
And... Roland SHOULD read this forum...

My wish is to rewrite the VIO as the VST plugin.
I can do it, but we'll need the base algorithm.
It isn't so simple as the GR-300 is (the "zero-crossing", this is just a few lines of the code, I've coded it, and it sounds almost exactly as on VG/GP).
Of course I can talk with Roland alone, but I think it will be no success.
But we as the forum, it's a stronger voice. At least I think so...
VG8 / VG88 / VG99 / WP20G / GP10 / SY1000 / GKP4 / US20 / Sustainiac / EBow

Bill Ruppert

It would be great if someone could post an mp3 of the vio sound playing slow long notes in a scale over a few octaves.
I would like to hear it solo very simple.
Bill

Rhcole

The VIO sounds great.

With the GP-10 Roland invested in improving the guitars and amps. The synth aspects were add-ons and not as refined as many of us would have liked. It's still a good product, but Roland is the King of "If Only"...

Elantric

QuoteIt would be great if someone could post an mp3 of the vio sound playing slow long notes in a scale over a few octaves.

Many demos of VG-8 Vio Guitar are here:

Rhcole

BTW Brak(E)Man, love your tunes.

Bill Ruppert

None are soloed or played alone for me to try and cop it.

dblacha

#22
Bill, I'll try make it for you.
But I'm sure, the VIO isn't copiable :-)

It is not the simple saw / square / pulse wave as the GR-300, WAVE or PWM. Even if they are DSP results of string vibrations.
It sounds like a bowed real string and any nuance of playing is strong audible.

If you would like me to name a few main sound sets in VG technology, I would do it like this:

1) all electric, bass, acoustic guitars and resonators (nylon guitars, banjo and a few others)
2) electronic oscillator simulations (GR300, WAVE, Brass, PWM, Crystal, Filtered Bass, Bowed, etc.)
3) the VIO Guitar

:-)

However, I think that your genius on the strings, would definitely provide an incredible results on the VIO !!!

Quote from: Bill Ruppert on December 01, 2014, 11:05:00 AM
None are soloed or played alone for me to try and cop it.
VG8 / VG88 / VG99 / WP20G / GP10 / SY1000 / GKP4 / US20 / Sustainiac / EBow

Bill Ruppert

Thanks, a soloed Vio played slow through octaves would be great.
The VG-99 has two voices and I can often talk it into do things by using both. Let me try.
The 99 has the others sounds (GR300, WAVE, Brass, PWM, Crystal, Filtered Bass, Bowed, etc.) (nylon guitars, banjo and a few others) covered very well.
Bill

Quote from: dblacha on December 01, 2014, 01:20:27 PM
Bill, I'll try make it for you.
But I'm sure, the VIO isn't copiable :-)

It is not the simple saw / square / pulse wave as the GR-300, WAVE or PWM. Even if they are DSP results of string vibrations.
It sounds like a bowed real string and any nuance of playing is strong audible.

If you would like me to name a few main sound sets in VG technology, I would do it like this:

1) all electric, bass, acoustic guitars and resonators (nylon guitars, banjo and a few others)
2) electronic oscillator simulations (GR300, WAVE, Brass, PWM, Crystal, Filtered Bass, Bowed, etc.)
3) the VIO Guitar

:-)

However, I think that your genius on the strings, would definitely provide an incredible results on the VIO !!!

Rhcole

Go, Bill, go!
(we need a cheerleader icon)