Back from the dead! Roland G-505 Guitar Controller

Started by mateomasfeo, July 04, 2014, 10:05:32 AM

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mateomasfeo

For the consideration of those looking for a Roland Ready guitar or an internal GK3 installation -

I bought a new Roland G-505 in 1982 along with the GR-300 and 24 pin cable.  It served me well for many years, then the 24-pin cable quit and the 13-pin VG-99 came along and the Beast was relegated to under the bed.

The Beast -



While not a Fender Strat, the G-505 is a great representation of Fender stylings.  The 505 was built in the Fujigen Gakki factory in Japan who had experience making quality Japanese Fender clones.  For years this same factory built Fender guitars for sale in the Japanese market. (Wayne Joness)

I decided to repair the cable so I could either sell the rig or resurrect the GR-300.  With the expertise of Wayne Joness (must see link - http://www.joness.com) and a magnifying light, I re-soldered the 24 Pin cable and brought the Beast back to life.  But - I found that the GR-300 didn't excite me much, as most of the features could be found on the VG-99.  So, back under the bed...get some pictures for EBAY...

I then began to shop for a Roland ready strat because I hate the wart and inability to close a hard case with the wart attached.  While mucking about looking, I ran across Wayne's BX-13-MICRO. (http://www.joness.com/gr300/BX13.htm)



The BX13 is brilliant!  It allows you to plug in your 24-pin cable from the 505 guitar controller to the BX, from the output of the BX using the 13-pin, then into the VG99.  The master volume on the G-505 then becomes (with much screaming, yelling and cursing at the VG-99!!) the volume for the regular magnetic pickups on the G-505, which I use often.  This is particularly important as the G-505's volume and tone controls use 500K pots. Single coil pickups, like those in a Strat, are almost always wired with 250K pots. The 250K pots make for a warmer guitar tone, and tame some of the brightness associated with single coil pickups.  Personally, I really love the crisper sound of the 500k pots, which are not on a Roland Ready Strat or the standard internal modification.

The CV#1 filter cutoff knob becomes the volume control for the hex pickup.  Then by using the appropriate knob one can mix the regular pickups with the hex pickup.

Another added bonus of reviving the G-505, is the G-505's first generation hex pickup.  It is a much larger hex than the later GK's, and MUCH hotter.  In the VG-99 I only have to set the string volumes at 10 or less when using the 505.  Seems like it tracks better with the more powerful vintage hex, and the hex was manufactured with a 7.25 radius, so adjusting the hex for radius is unnecessary.  It also lacks the dreaded white pickup cover so perfect hex pickup height can be achieved.

I replaced the old bridge saddles which were in poor shape and screwed the vibrato bar in and unblocked it.  Then did a complete setup on the 505.  I plan to add rolling string trees, a TUSQ nut and perhaps some locking tuners.  However, the 505  stays in surprisingly good tune even without these mods.  Once these mods are added, I expect the 505 will stay beautifully in tune.  The guitar sounds great - haven't used another guitar since!

If you're looking for a Roland Ready Strat - or looking to do an internal mount hex, you might considered finding a used vintage Roland Guitar Controller or reviving the one under the bed.  I have seen decent 505's on EBAY for around $500 - $600, and Wayne's BX costs $289.  The saddles were cheap, and tuners, nut and trees are another $100 or so.  Starting from scratch and after buying two 24-pin cables at about $250 - $300 a pop, one should have somewhere around $1500 in the guitar, BX and cables.  A pretty good price for a vintage internally mounted Roland guitar controller with the 500k pots and beefy hex.  The only real downside is the 24 pin cable - probably should buy two - always need a backup, especially if you play live.  Advantages of the 24-pin over the 13-pin, are that the 24-pin is much more robust than the fragile 13-pin and the 24-pin is much less noisy than the 13. 

For your consideration and information -

The Beast Master

Dances with Sheep on SoundCLoud

https://soundcloud.com/dances-with-sheep

drjoness2001

Thanks for the nice comments on the BX-13-MICRO. I find nothing in the modern world touches the signal-to-noise ratio of the vintage pickups.

And the 24-pin Roland cables, while expensive and difficult to find, are like tanks compared to noisy 13-pin cables. Of course, you still need a 13-pin cable to get to the synth, but most of the noise comes from the cable movement at the guitar, not the synth input.

Again, I really appreciate the kind remarks. Wayne

aliensporebomb

Wow.  Had I known.  I wish I still had this one:



It really was a great guitar.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

merman93

#3
I have been through several saddle replacements for my G-505, and am still not 100% satisfied.
The absolute best sounding were Callaham, but although they are the "offset" saddles, the high E saddle blocked access to where the Trem screwed in. They sounded so good, I used them that way ever since, basically losing access to a trem. I have bought several other sets, found a few that were ok, and went a while using 5 callaham, and 1 All-Parts saddle to get the trem back.

The original saddles actully disentegrated when taking them off at one time, that's how bad they are.

Off course the reason for all of the effort is, this is a fantastic guitar, and controller when used with Wayne's converters. I own more than 30 Made in Japan Ibanez guitars, so I have a love for things made in the Fugijen Factory, like the 505. Here a pic of my g-505, with an Ibanez Blazer made at the same time, and same factory.

Oh, and for the mandatory 13 pin cable, I have been getting custom ones from Best-Tronics. They are made to order, you decide the length,... Highest quality I've seen.
Ibanez RG 1520 GK
Ibanez RG 420 GK
Ibanez RG 920 (GK KIT)
Ibanez RGA 121 (GK 3)
Fender Deluxe Players Strat (GK KIT)
Roland GC 1/G 505/G 707
Hamer Phantom A7 (24 pin)
BX 13 (24 -13 pin converter)
GP-10
FishmanTripleplay (2)
VG 88 2.0
Apple Imac/Logic 9
MOTU Utralite 3
Kemper (2)
Gemini 2 Active FRFR

aliensporebomb

I wonder if the G-505 could be retrofitted with a SuperVee Bladerunner or SuperVee Trem?
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

merman93

#5
Quote from: aliensporebomb on July 10, 2014, 09:00:30 PM
I wonder if the G-505 could be retrofitted with a SuperVee Bladerunner or SuperVee Trem?
I noticed while doing my initial research for saddles, that there is a pic on Wayne Jones site of a g-505 with the bladerunner installed.

That is most likely the best, most economic resolution, but, my girlfriend continues to remind me daily that guitarists rarely make the choice to go with the best, most economic solution. And, I am no exception.

I love the bladerunner, I have one on my GC-1, and another on a Mex/Strat gk kit build.

One issue with the G-505 is the trem cavity is narrow, and is difficult to modify as the PCB's for the 24 pin system are right up on the side of the cavity where the trem bar screws in. See pics below, first is my red G505, then Ibanez Blazer, then g505 with bladerunner from Wayne's site.

I did extensive measurements comparing my g505 to my Ibanez Blazer. The G505 brass block is not as wide, and the trem bar is much closer to the saddles than on any trem equipped guitar I measured.

When I measured the bladerunner in my GC-1, and the cavity on the G-505, it looked like it would not fit. Then I saw the pic from Wayne's site. I'm clueless.

I had taken these pics and measurements when I was considering having Callaham manufacture me a custom one-off bridge plate that would be able to use his saddles, and the original brass block, and fit into the cavity with out any modifications. Actually the cost was reasonable, and I was considering having 10 units made, and offering 5 for sale on Ebay to anyone with same issue, to somewhat offset my costs.

But decided to keep looking at other options, as I have 2 more G-505's in various stages of refurb, that one day will be completed, ( but I doubt I will have made the best and most economical choices along the way, as I am a guitarist,... Haha). I also only function on what brain cells are left after the 80's.
Ibanez RG 1520 GK
Ibanez RG 420 GK
Ibanez RG 920 (GK KIT)
Ibanez RGA 121 (GK 3)
Fender Deluxe Players Strat (GK KIT)
Roland GC 1/G 505/G 707
Hamer Phantom A7 (24 pin)
BX 13 (24 -13 pin converter)
GP-10
FishmanTripleplay (2)
VG 88 2.0
Apple Imac/Logic 9
MOTU Utralite 3
Kemper (2)
Gemini 2 Active FRFR

mateomasfeo

Quote from: merman93 on July 10, 2014, 04:05:35 AM
I have been through several saddle replacements for my G-505, and am still not 100% satisfied.
The absolute best sounding were Callaham, but although they are the "offset" saddles, the high E saddle blocked access to where the Trem screwed in. They sounded so good, I used them that way ever since, basically losing access to a trem. I have bought several other sets, found a few that were ok, and went a while using 5 callaham, and 1 All-Parts saddle to get the trem back.

The original saddles actully disentegrated when taking them off at one time, that's how bad they are.

Off course the reason for all of the effort is, this is a fantastic guitar, and controller when used with Wayne's converters. I own more than 30 Made in Japan Ibanez guitars, so I have a love for things made in the Fugijen Factory, like the 505. Here a pic of my g-505, with an Ibanez Blazer made at the same time, and same factory.

Oh, and for the mandatory 13 pin cable, I have been getting custom ones from Best-Tronics. They are made to order, you decide the length,... Highest quality I've seen.



I replaced the saddles only, and had to cut down the high E saddle to make room for the vibrato bar.  Don't know if you can tell by the picture. Works fine, was a pain in the ass, but it stays in tune quite well...

Dances with Sheep on SoundCLoud

https://soundcloud.com/dances-with-sheep

mateomasfeo

Quote from: drjoness2001 on July 09, 2014, 08:42:20 PM
Thanks for the nice comments on the BX-13-MICRO. I find nothing in the modern world touches the signal-to-noise ratio of the vintage pickups.

And the 24-pin Roland cables, while expensive and difficult to find, are like tanks compared to noisy 13-pin cables. Of course, you still need a 13-pin cable to get to the synth, but most of the noise comes from the cable movement at the guitar, not the synth input.

Again, I really appreciate the kind remarks. Wayne


Thanks yourself, Wayne!

You are an oasis in an otherwise barren desert...

Dances with Sheep on SoundCLoud

https://soundcloud.com/dances-with-sheep

merman93

Quote from: mateomasfeo on July 11, 2014, 08:49:37 AM


I replaced the saddles only, and had to cut down the high E saddle to make room for the vibrato bar.  Don't know if you can tell by the picture. Works fine, was a pain in the ass, but it stays in tune quite well...
Now that you mention it, I can see that in your pic.

I have another red g505, and a blue one that basically came with some gr-700's I purchased almost 10 years ago. Eventually they will refurbished.
Ibanez RG 1520 GK
Ibanez RG 420 GK
Ibanez RG 920 (GK KIT)
Ibanez RGA 121 (GK 3)
Fender Deluxe Players Strat (GK KIT)
Roland GC 1/G 505/G 707
Hamer Phantom A7 (24 pin)
BX 13 (24 -13 pin converter)
GP-10
FishmanTripleplay (2)
VG 88 2.0
Apple Imac/Logic 9
MOTU Utralite 3
Kemper (2)
Gemini 2 Active FRFR

Piing

#9
How is the G-550 GR-505 as a normal guitar? Playability?

There is one for sale here in Bangkok for $213. I am wondering if it is worth to buy it, and rewire the hex pickup to use with the VG99

It is a model with a fixed bridge








admin

#10
Quote from: Piing on October 11, 2018, 03:07:38 AM
How is the G-550 GR-505 as a normal guitar? Playability?

There is one for sale here in Bangkok for $213. I am wondering if it is worth to buy it, and rewire the hex pickup to use with the VG99

It is a model with a fixed bridge









The Price is right !



Note the Asymmetrical Bridge plate and Hole for the missing Tremolo Bar
The Three  Single coils and no pickup routes means that is a GR-505 body - , refinished in clear  - with a custom clear pickguard


It looks like this specific GR-505  guitar has a Maple Neck with a Luthier added 22nd Fret and a Fender decal, and evidence of a String Lock behind the Nut  - possibly a Washburn Wonderbar String Lock (since Removed)

Was made by Fujugen Gakki in 1982
http://www.fgnguitars.com/history.



Hopefully the original 24 pin electronics can be restored  - as that guitar has a unique internal op amp filtered Hex Fuzz circuit.

More details
https://www.joness.com/gr300/G-202.html
https://www.joness.com/gr300/G-505.html

chrish

The G505 sounds and plays well as a regular guitar. If you don't like the sound you can always change out some of the pickups.

If the 24 pin Electronics work I would definitely seek out a Roland gr 300. Best guitar synth out there when used in conjunction with the dedicated guitar controller.

If you don't want to go that route and do decide to convert it for use with 13 pin gear, and the 24 pin Electronics still work, you could sell those old electronics for about what you paid for the guitar.

GuitarBuilder

I suggest you buy it!  Then check out and refurbish the electronics if necessary.  You can get Wayne Joness' BX-13 box or equivalent to interface it with a VG-99. It's worth more with the original electronics intact.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Silas Lang

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on October 13, 2018, 01:54:24 PM
You can get Wayne Joness' BX-13 box or equivalent to interface it with a VG-99.

That's how I use mine. These are great guitars IMO. And coupled with Joness' magical box I find the tracking better (and louder) than the regular 13-pin system.

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: Silas Lang on October 16, 2018, 09:53:22 AM
That's how I use mine. These are great guitars IMO. And coupled with Joness' magical box I find the tracking better (and louder) than the regular 13-pin system.

That's because the original hex pickups in these guitars were better!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

admin

#15
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on October 18, 2018, 03:26:47 PM
That's because the original hex pickups in these guitars were better!


One reason why older hex PU's were better - they were potted

Learn to wax pot the latest GK-3 PU here
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43.0