SY-1000 Create your own designer reverb's

Started by Bill Ruppert, September 20, 2020, 03:16:19 PM

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Bill Ruppert

Many people have wished for better or different sounding reverb's in the SY-1000.
What many do not realize is the SY-1000 is set up to create your own designer reverb's.
This includes different tonal response verbs, pitch verbs, gate verbs you name it.
Its all in the box as is!
Here are a few tricks I use and its the same as a designer would do in developing a reverb pedal.
For explanation purposes I am using the 1/4 input.

Normally you would run the reverb at the end of the chain and mix the effect in using the direct level up and increase the effect level to add your reverb in.
The reverb's sound or tone is limited to what is available in the reverb parameter list:


The trick is to use the divider in dual mode and place the reverb in a parallel chain with its input signal.
Here the reverb in the A side of the divider.
The reverb's direct level should be set at zero as the level of the reverb is now controlled by the A/B  balance of the divider mixer  output.
More A blend is more reverb and more B blend is more direct or dry:


NOW you can place things like a parametric EQ in front of the reverb and completely change the tonal characteristics of the reverb sound with out changing the EQ of the direct signal.
Going further you can add effects like stereo chorus after the reverb or a defretter in front of the reverb for unheard of gate effects.(A limiter after the verb is crazy!)
The sky is the limit...



But wait you can go even further and create more unheard reverb sounds by placing this mix after the dynamic synth section.
Use the divider to control the blend of Dry guitar and Synth verb.
Now you have polyphonic pitch reverb options! Add in the SY-1000 sequencer and you are looking at things that brand new Strymon has!
It gets as deep as you want to think.



Another trick is to place one reverb in the A side and another reverb type in the B side and mix them for a dense reverb.


Using these tools you can create your own designer reverb's
Good luck,
Bill Ruppert

BROCKSTAR

"But wait you can go even further "

Lol reading this made me feel like I was watching a commercial. Haha good stuff Bill. I guess sometimes we just forget that there's tools to make other tools.


Bill Ruppert

#2
Yep that's why I said it.
I remember the commercial

chrish

#3
Looks like a great tutorial, but I'm going to have to study it before I eat my next brownie. ;D

Thanks.

When I saw the new stymon reverb pedal I thought that the SY can do all that but with more modulated tone colors.


aliensporebomb

These are great idea - which just gave me another idea. 
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Rhcole


stub

It's good to remember that these kinds of split-path/parallel things can give you more ways to enhance the reverb.

In some cases, I don't think EQ will help the reverb much. But I am curious to see what layering two reverbs might do.

As an aside, I was playing around with a Kurzweil PC3 and the reverbs that come from that KDFX system are quite good (especially compared to most "factory" reverb).

Still, the SY-1000 reverbs aren't terrible, they just don't sound very good. Hopefully "designing reverb" isn't code for turd polishing.

Piing

Thank you for the ideas Bill. I cannot wait to try all that

Allomerus

Great idea Bill. Thanks for sharing it!

Kevin M

Sometimes I feel like I'm viewing things one-dimensionally, while others are seeing the full three dimensions. :-)

This is great info!

Rhcole

"With a ring like that.... Dare I say it... I COULD RULE THE WORLD!!!"
-Mad scientist, the Beatles "Help".

Smash

#11
Not an SY owner but it's a BR post so I check it out...

Hope you're keeping well Bill in all this madness - it's about to get even more mad over here wef 1/1/21!

Might have to start calling you wild Bill after final chain you've posted :D

Anyway, totally concur on the parallel trick. I've used it myself to recreate Particle Reverb in both Tonestack and Bias FX (TS more successful tbh). Full wet tape delay into reverb can get you into Strymon type territory. A little more resource cost with VG99 (one COSM chain gone lol!). Add input level based assigns for even more fun.

There were a couple of patches on that new Strymon Night Sky pedal I really like that I might have a crack at.

aliensporebomb

#12
Smash:  Re-SY:  You know you want one.   Amps of the GT-1000 with the synthy stuff.   And yes - tape delay into reverb into delay is another ticket (Ocean Machine territory).   I have so many ideas!

Update: been working with some of these ideas.   Quite intriguing.   Found some unusual sounds without even trying.   You can definitely color the reverb in such a way that it sounds like.... not like itself.   Nicer.   SY-1000 - the crayola box with all the colors.

And think about using the divider with different types of overdrive just musing.




My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

Bill Ruppert

#13
Quote from: Smash on September 21, 2020, 03:28:05 PM
Not an SY owner but it's a BR post so I check it out...

Hope you're keeping well Bill in all this madness - it's about to get even more mad over here wef 1/1/21!

Might have to start calling you wild Bill after final chain you've posted :D

Anyway, totally concur on the parallel trick. I've used it myself to recreate Particle Reverb in both Tonestack and Bias FX (TS more successful tbh). Full wet tape delay into reverb can get you into Strymon type territory. A little more resource cost with VG99 (one COSM chain gone lol!). Add input level based assigns for even more fun.

Hey Scott
Well its VERY WEIRD on this side of the pond. It gets weirder everyday AND its going to get crazy weird in November.
The addition of the EQ in front of the verbs really sweetened the reverb for me. Plus some stereo split delay on the end of the reverb widened it up great.
I heard the demo of the new  Night Sky and much of that is possible on the SY1K..
Be safe over there as it sounds like its covid crazy again.


Smash

COVID crazy for sure but with equally crazy confusing advice from Boris.

Still I'm getting the popcorn ready for a bit of light relief for the election over there  ;D

pasha811

This post opens up so many possibilities.. Thanks BR! lately I have been interested into Valhalla Plugins and got the Shimmer as well as the free Supermassive. You want to try it! It's great.
A shimmer is a loop of pitch shifted reverb tails on the edge of chaos (unstable feedbacks) but can we design something like that with a SY1K? maybe adding a cable and place the Send Return block wisely?

That intrigues me.
Thanks for any reply
Pasha
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

Quote from: pasha811 on December 15, 2020, 02:49:05 AM
This post opens up so many possibilities.. Thanks BR! lately I have been interested into Valhalla Plugins and got the Shimmer as well as the free Supermassive. You want to try it! It's great.
A shimmer is a loop of pitch shifted reverb tails on the edge of chaos (unstable feedbacks) but can we design something like that with a SY1K? maybe adding a cable and place the Send Return block wisely?

That intrigues me.
Thanks for any reply
Pasha

I have a nice divider delay/verb coming up, it uses the soundhold block with various triggers.
I will add a pitch shift as well and see what happens. It could also be done with one of the instruments.
(At the moment I have "clean" signal going through on all instruments.j
I'm guessing with some tweaking it can be made into something if not not exactly whey you're after but similarly exciting.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

pasha811

Quote from: Brak(E)man on December 15, 2020, 04:46:56 AM
I have a nice divider delay/verb coming up, it uses the soundhold block with various triggers.
I will add a pitch shift as well and see what happens. It could also be done with one of the instruments.
(At the moment I have "clean" signal going through on all instruments.j
I'm guessing with some tweaking it can be made into something if not not exactly whey you're after but similarly exciting.

Thanks!
Well... I got drawn into shimmering by this video   then I read about Shimmer from Sean Costello's Valhalla here : https://valhalladsp.com/2010/05/11/enolanois-shimmer-sound-how-it-is-made/
Sean Costello explains also the FDN in his blog and it's an incredible journey.

So I was asking myself... can't it be done via hardware? If all we need it's a feedback loop a reverb and a pitch shifer with a delay.. then it will create unstable feedback loops that might erupt. Eno was doing this on the edge of chaos and was wonderful. Pads from outer space and more... VG99 has no 'real' Send Return but SY1K has.. so after this great 'reverb designer' post I recall Sean Costello blog and lectures about FDNs and Shimmering Verbs so I got to the point of asking if it can be done. A feedback made with hardware must be stabilized to avoid unwanted results but maybe as all discoveries you try and get a bonus! :-)
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Brak(E)man

There's the possibility to affect the feedback in a delay randomly with for example several wavepedal assigns.
The same with pitch and soundhold.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

admin

QuoteVG99 has no 'real' Send Return but SY1K has..

Could use Bill Rupperts
VG-99 Output back into Guitar input trick
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2239.0
QuoteHere is the trick!
Use the Cosm guitar from channel A and output it to the left channel.
Take a patch chord from the left output and plug that into the regular Mag guitar input
Set the B channel for pick up level on the B channel for 0 cosm guitar and 100% normal mag Pick up.
Then in the output mixer pan channel B to the right side output.
Its a mono signal but now you can run all of channel A,s effects into all of channel B, effects.
Below are pics of the out mixer setting and the pick up settings for channel A and B.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2239.msg31102#msg31102

jozart

#20
Are all shimmers created the same? Looking at a few recipes from multifx units, I see several formulas.

Is SY-1000's patch P07-3 SUPER SHIMMER a super shimmer?

pasha811

#21
Quote from: jozart on December 15, 2020, 10:35:48 AM
Are all shimmers created the same? Looking at a few recipes for multifx units, I see several formulas.

Is P07-3 SUPER SHIMMER a super shimmer?

If you want the 'original shimmer idea' from Brian Eno / Lanois then have a raed here:
https://valhalladsp.com/2010/05/10/enolanois-shimmer-effect-early-examples/

I have found those slides very useful to understand reverb designs in general
https://valhalladsp.com/2015/06/19/slides-from-my-aes-reverb-presentation/
and this is a Youtube commented version :

In any case the base algorithm is the same with some addition here and there.

Hope you enjoy it!
:)

And I have also explored this :

Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

jozart

#22
Thanks for the material from Valhalla.

Paul White's article "Creating Shimmer Reverb Effects" in SOS earlier this year says the feedback stage is usually unnecessary:

QuoteSome shimmer pedal designs also incorporate a little feedback from the output of the reverb back to the input, and this configuration makes replicating that trickier in most DAWs, but I've found that this step is usually unnecessary anyway.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/creating-shimmer-reverb-effects

pasha811

Quote from: jozart on December 16, 2020, 05:09:44 AM
Thanks for the material from Valhalla.

Paul White's article "Creating Shimmer Reverb Effects" in SOS earlier this year says the feedback stage is usually unnecessary:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/creating-shimmer-reverb-effects

Great stuff thank you!
Ableton Live 'Native Shimmer' is done with little feedback into a group
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/