VG-99 - Metallica - Master of Battery

Started by A2theT, July 16, 2008, 02:45:09 PM

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A2theT

Ok so I did the same with this heavy patch.  (please excuse my playing).

CTRL1 turns on/off Kirks guitar.  So for instance when battery starts its just James guitar and its panned 70/30 and then you enter Kirks guitar by kicking on ctrl1 and his is panned 30/70.  This is exactly like the album because I checked it using PAZ Meters and then did the EQ'ing using PAZ Spectrum Analyzer to try and get the same sound.  When you look at his guitar in PAZ Meters it shows he peaks at -2db on the left channel while he's peaking at -10db on the right channel.  I know it seems more like an 20/80 than a 30/70 but 30/70 shows the closest balance on the VG.  Who knows, maybe the VG's numbers are a little off.

It may sound a little clearer to you when the Master of Puppets part comes in.  I also included Kirk's wah for the solos use EXP PDL1 to engage.   Have fun.
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

Brent Flash

Good patch and demo. Have you notice if you switch to flat strings on your guitar models it won't change the tone much and you get way less string noise? Try it out on this patch.

RushFan

What is this PAZ Spectrum Analyzer you speak of? Is it software? Sounds like something I might want to check out to get tones closer. The tricky thing is, of course, that what you are listening to might not be "how it was meant to sound," depending on your speakers and how your EQ is set on everything. Like I use the Soundblaster Xi-Fi software EQ and that could have an unwanted influence on how I hear the tones when I'm trying to duplicate something. As a result I tend to listen to them on my iPod instead, which is also probably not ideal. What's a person to do?

A2theT

Quote from: Brent Flash on July 16, 2008, 05:00:48 PM
Good patch and demo. Have you notice if you switch to flat strings on your guitar models it won't change the tone much and you get way less string noise? Try it out on this patch.

Thanks all I did was record the patch direct (one track) and used Addictive Drums to provide a beat that I recorded via my m-audio keyboard controller.  theres no bass or anything because i wanted to demo the patch as unaffected as possible.  Thanks for the tip on the flat strings I just tried it and it is a little better and really didn't effect the sound quality.
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

A2theT

#4
Quote from: RushFan on July 16, 2008, 06:14:13 PM
What is this PAZ Spectrum Analyzer you speak of?

Its made by Waves and is expensive but I highly recommend The RND Inspector by Roger Nichols and its a free download.  Go get it!
http://www.rndigital.org/PlugInstaller/PC/INSPECTOR%20Setup.zip

Anyway, PAZ Analyzer is $400.  http://register.waves.com/WavesStore/StoreMain.aspx?item=V5-PZD40
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

Brent Flash

Quote from: Andrew Turner on July 16, 2008, 06:31:27 PM
Thanks for the tip on the flat strings I just tried it and it is a little better and really didn't effect the sound quality.
I wonder how they do that! ???

RushFan

Quote from: Andrew Turner on July 16, 2008, 06:40:47 PM
Anyway, PAZ Analyzer is $400. 


*choke* Guess I'll be using my ears. I could GK-equip my other two guitars for that price. Or like get a new guitar. Heh heh.

Brent Flash

#7
Quote from: RushFan on July 16, 2008, 07:28:28 PM
*choke* Guess I'll be using my ears. I could GK-equip my other two guitars for that price. Or like get a new guitar. Heh heh.
You on a PC or a Mac? This is a free analyser works of OS X and Windows XP.
http://www.rndigital.org/authorizeinspector.html

Brent Flash

Quote from: RushFan on July 16, 2008, 07:28:28 PM
*choke* Guess I'll be using my ears. I could GK-equip my other two guitars for that price. Or like get a new guitar. Heh heh.
RushFan here is another cool free tool. This for stereo imaging lets you do some neat stuff with the stereo out of your recording software. But the one I put the link to above is what you were wanting. I think. It is free also. So you can still get your new guitar. ;D
Forgot to put the link ???
http://www.fluxhome.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=120&Itemid=36

RushFan

Quote from: Brent Flash on July 16, 2008, 07:30:15 PM
You on a PC or a Mac? This is a free analyser works of OS X and Windows XP.

Thanks, but I don't understand how to access this. It's some kind of plug-in, but for what I don't know. I don't think I have any software that can utilize it and the instructions are kind of vague.  ???

Brent Flash

Quote from: RushFan on July 17, 2008, 05:28:03 AM
Thanks, but I don't understand how to access this. It's some kind of plug-in, but for what I don't know. I don't think I have any software that can utilize it and the instructions are kind of vague.  ???
ProTools, Garage Band, etc. What OS do you have?

A2theT

Quote from: RushFan on July 17, 2008, 05:28:03 AM
Thanks, but I don't understand how to access this. It's some kind of plug-in, but for what I don't know. I don't think I have any software that can utilize it and the instructions are kind of vague.  ???

Well if you're new to this stuff and have a P.C.  then you could download Reaper http://www.reaper.fm/download.php and read the tutorial
Then install the Roger Nichols Spectrum Plugin in the previous link and try it out.
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

Billy Kaffadrin

     Nice patch.  And I also dig Roger Nichol's Inspector, and have used it as a RTA for live sound gigs quite a bit.

     Just like to mention though, what you cop off a recording, however accurately analyzed for eq etc. in fact sounds only somewhat like what the guy's guitars/amps/pedals really sounded like in the studio.  Tailoring your sounds to match the CD exactly won't make you sound like Metallica themselves really do, live or in the studio.  On the CD rhythm gtrs are often doubled or tripled, compressed and notched and filtered and done all kinds of damage.  Live, you get a more visceral, if less complex palate of sounds.  And probably (for this band), you get a _wider_ dynamic range live too!

     One of my first audio lessons was; All recordings are by definition distortion.  No matter how accurately captured, it still doesn't recreate the live event.  This is even more true for bands that typically use the studio as a creative tool - which is almost everyone.   So Brent's tendency to tailor sounds for live gigs is a very useful thing.  I mean when you compress sounds a lot it might sound loud as hell to you compared to your clean sound - until you try playing it with a drummer and bass player!  All of sudden everybody's wondering, where did the guitar go?

     So to have Metallica's impact, I guess you just gotta see Metallica live (or copy sounds from their live recordings).


A2theT

#13
Absolutely.  I think we all understand this.  Many bands can't reproduce their studio sound or tones live.  And how could you really?  You go from a sound damped room and your choice of microphones to an open air concert or a sound-bouncing arena.  This is why I use direct monitoring (as opposed to amp monitoring) when trying to model different guitar sounds from albums.  Its quite hard but we can come successfully close.  Just listen to my Cult Sanctuary patch.  Its almost identical.  Even when played through my Marshall.  Its funny because some tones come across great direct or through an amp. Some tones arejust less effected by natural compression too.   Eq'ing them correctly, choice of pickup position, and guitar/amp model realy helps.  I just wish the VG had as many amp models as the Line6 gear.
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

RushFan

Quote from: Brent Flash on July 17, 2008, 05:32:15 AM
ProTools, Garage Band, etc. What OS do you have?
Winders XP. Believe it or not all I've been using to record with is Wave Studio. And I have Multiquencer and Beatcraft.  :-X Guess it's time to look into something better for recording? Though it seems to do well enough. I was just curious about the spectrum analyzer. For all I know, Xi-Fi came with something like that. I should probably dig.
This is turning into its own thread..

A2theT

K, so I've since updated that top patch and mp3 with some more tweaks I made.  sorry.  pickup changes, string changes, and ctrl changes.
the volume level is controlled by the GK dial now too.
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars

RushFan

Quote from: Billy Kaffadrin on July 17, 2008, 07:23:35 AM
     Tailoring your sounds to match the CD exactly won't make you sound like Metallica themselves really do, live or in the studio.  On the CD rhythm gtrs are often doubled or tripled, compressed and notched and filtered and done all kinds of damage.  
Yes, it's a tricky proposition for that reason. Listen to "Garage Days Re-Revisited" and you get a more raw Metallica studio sound, because that was actually recorded live with much less "damage" done. It still sounds like Metallica, but it doesn't sound like their other albums.

A2theT

Ya and Garage Dayz Revisited was a totally compressed album.  The guitars are just dry and compressed all to hell.
HEAVY on the METAL
Axe-Fx II, Roland VG-99 + FC-300, Roland GR-55, Digitech Jamman Stereo, Ibanez/ESP/Jackson Guitars