Survey of Working Audio Interfaces.

Started by Elantric, April 05, 2013, 09:49:53 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

amplayer

Quote from: Elantric on July 10, 2014, 09:21:29 AM
FWIW - the EMU-1820 was co-designed by EMU and  AKM Semi in San Jose, CA and its A/D D/A were considered top state of the art for a reference design digital to analog conversion design circa 2004  - despite the fact EMU is owned by Creative Labs - "this ain't no Sound Blaster !

Your wealth of knowledge never ceases to amaze me!

supernicd

QuoteYes -the "requirement for Powered USB Hub" remains a source of confusion for many

Review this  Auria Audio Interface Recommendations page
http://www.auriaapp.com/Support/auria-audio-interfaces

Thanks, yes, I've run into this with several devices.  Sounds like the X-Station is definitely one of them.  I've been going back and forth between one of these and the Roland Duo Capture EX.  This may tip the scales back toward the Roland.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric


supernicd

Still a bit confused.  If it's on battery power does that eliminate the need to use a powered hub?  What I don't want is to have to use a powered hub in addition to whatever audio/MIDI interface I buy next for iPad.  A powered hub starts to subtract from the portability of the "portable" solution by adding extra "stuff" to carry and connect.

My desire is less about the need to operate without AC power (though that's a plus) and more about smaller and fewer things to move around and connect up.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

#54
Powered USB Hub is Mandatory for X-Station


USB Hub may be powered either by Battery or AC Power supply.


QuoteA powered hub starts to subtract from the portability of the "portable" solution by adding extra "stuff" to carry and connect.

But know that compared to running off AC Mains power, running X-Station from 100% Battery power yields 20db more SNR , and much lower noise floor, and no hum.


X-Station has a 6-"C" Battery Compartment, and I plan on modffication to use that battery compartment space to install my own USB Hub and Li-Ion Battery  - so it can connect to an iPad+CCK

Elantric

#55
If you want a decent iPad Audio / MIDI Interface that requires zero mods and runs on Battery Power

Consider this   
http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/DUO-CAPTURE_EX_OM.pdf

Roland Duo Capture EX
(not to be confused with the older / similar "Roland Duo Capture"
http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1248/features/



DUO-CAPTURE EX: USB Audio Interface
Pro I/O for PC, Mac, and iPad

Housed in a compact, road-tough metal case, the new DUO-CAPTURE EX is perfect for both home recording and mobile production. The rugged USB audio interface is outfitted with a pair of VS Preamps, which feature the same professional components used in Roland's high-end digital mixers. Two combo XLR/TRS inputs are provided, including a Hi-Z input for connecting a guitar or bass directly. The three-way power supply offers the ultimate in operational convenience, allowing you to power the unit from the computer's USB bus, batteries, or an optional AC adapter. Powerful and flexible, the DUO-CAPTURE EX is compatible with Windows, Mac OS X, and iOS*.

Two VS Preamps with phantom-power support
Compatible with PC, Mac, and iPad*
Low-noise three-way power supply; runs on USB bus power, three AA-size batteries, or AC adapter
Road-tough, compact aluminum case
Hi-Z input for electric guitar or bass
MIDI input and output
Bundled with SONAR LE music-production software for Windows
*Apple iPad Camera Connection Kit is required for use with the iPad; must be powered by batteries or AC adapter when used with the iPad.

VS PREAMPS

DUO-CAPTURE EX boasts two premium-grade, digitally controlled mic preamps (VS Preamps) made from the same high-grade components as the preamps found in Roland's V-STUDIO 700 and M-400 digital mixer. Two XLR/TRS combo inputs are provided for the preamps, plus independent phantom power for each channel.

LOW-NOISE POWER SUPPLY

One of the DUO-CAPTURE EX's key "behind-the-scenes" features is its low-noise, wide-ranging power supply. Designed to deliver a clean, balanced input and output, it provides a reliable foundation for any professional audio application or environment. When powered by the computer's USB bus, the DUO-CAPTURE EX internally regenerates the incoming power, ensuring the ideal voltage for optimal sound quality and efficiency in mobile environments.

FOR HOME RECORDING

The DUO-CAPTURE EX is equipped with two XLR/TRS inputs (with phantom-power support for condenser microphones), plus a Hi-Z input switch for direct connection of an electric guitar or bass. The DUO-CAPTURE EX is compatible with all major computer platforms, including WDM/ASIO (Windows), Core Audio (Mac), and even iOS for the iPad.

FOR MOBILE MUSICIANS

Perfect for traveling musicians, the DUO-CAPTURE EX is compact and solidly housed in an aluminum case. It easily fits in a backpack, and weighs just one pound (440 grams). For the ultimate in mobile convenience, the DUO-CAPTURE EX can be powered via your computer's USB bus, three AA batteries, or an AC adapter (sold separately). Its premium preamps and low-noise design enable pro-quality results anywhere you record, indoors or out.

FOR IPAD

Turn your iPad into a professional recording device by connecting it to the DUO-CAPTURE EX*. Record vocals, guitar, keyboard, or other instruments with superb quality through the DUO-CAPTURE EX into the iPad using your favorite iOS apps. Additionally, the DUO-CAPTURE EX can function as a USB-MIDI interface to control iOS apps with electronic instruments such as MIDI keyboards, V-Drums, etc.

*Connect the DUO-CAPTURE EX to your iPad via Apple's iPad Camera Connection Kit. Batteries or AC power is required when using the DUO-CAPTURE EX with an iPad. You cannot charge your iPad using the DUO-CAPTURE EX.

supernicd

#56
The Duo Capture EX is what I'm leaning toward.  Here are my ideal specifications for an iPad interface.  The Duo Capture EX comes very close (I think all except the charging the iPad when on AC power).  I don't think a device that meets every single one of these exists.


  • 2 channel audio interface with XLR/TRS combo ports; can handle both line and instrument level signal - Hi-Z for guitar; phantom power available on battery and AC power
  • Runs on AC power or batteries, charges iPad when connected to AC
  • 5 pin MIDI IN/OUT, and must pass SysEx messages, MIDI over USB a plus but not needed
  • Future-proof form factor (i.e. no docks)
  • CCK required OK, but no powered  hub required
  • 24-bit/44.1kHz audio or better
  • High quality preamps (Focusrite, Apogee or Roland VS would be fine)
  • $300 US or less
  • Windows compatibilty a big plus but not required
  • Any other special features a plus

EDIT:  Just saw above - only 16-bit audio when connected to iPad would be a deal breaker.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

#57
AFIAK nothing exists that meets those specs.

The Alessis I!O Dock 2 is supposed to, but its the crucial "How Many actual Audio bits are streamed live over the USB Interface" question is where both  Alessis I!O Dock II
http://www.alesis.com/io-dock-ii

, and Behringer IS-202
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9005.0


FAIL - as both are only 16 bits, and marketing departments always try had to hide this fact, by hyping the 24 bit A/D  and 24 bit D/A - which can be present and functional, but the bottleneck is the USB Streaming I/O which is typically only 16 bits on many products


supernicd

#58
The ioDock 2 was a candidate until I learned that it is compatible with iPad 1-4 only. I'm sure it technically works with the Air but who wants to buy something brand new that doesn't quite fit right. That and in my experience Alesis preamps are not bad, but not on par with Focusrite, Roland, etc.

If the Duo EX only streams 16 bits to iPad, then that might put the X-Station back on top.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

#59
I try to avoid Alesis myself - never been impressed with their sputtering Mic Pres

If this was available today - I would place an order  - Does all you require - but its NOT battery powered

Griffin announced all development of the StudioConnect HD has been cancelled
Griffin StudioConnect HD
http://store.griffintechnology.com/studioconnect-hd





Multi-track recording dock for iPad and your Mac
StudioConnect HD is the easiest all-in-one, high-definition recording interface for iPad and Mac OS X. Now, with multi-tracking, StudioConnect HD is the best mobile recording rig, whether you're on the road, at rehearsal or at home.

Designed by pro-audio engineers for serious musicians and producers, StudioConnect HD provides up to 24-bit / 96k HD recording for mics, guitars, basses and keyboards in one compact device.

Two (2) combo XLR/instrument preamps open the doors to multi-tracking, no matter where you are. Each input has independent gain control, individual +48 V phantom power for condenser microphones, -20 dB pad, and input/clip LED indicators.

StudioConnect HD is built to work with any keyboard your rig requires. With MIDI in/out for both traditional 5-pin DIN-compatible keyboards and modern USB controllers, your favorite sounds from your keyboard rig are easily accessible.

For playback, plug your monitors into the balanced 1/4" outputs on the back of StudioConnect HD. A separate headphone input and level control is located on the front of StudioConnect HD.

Plug in. Play.

We've taken the guesswork out of set-up. Plug in your mic, instrument or keyboard using your industry standard XLR, 1/4" or MIDI cables. Then use one of the included cables to connect to your iPad or Mac. Launch your recording or other audio app and you're on your way. StudioConnect HD's weighted cabinet takes up minimal desktop space as it powers and charges your iPad, so you never need to worry about a dead battery while you're working.

We know that inspiration strikes anywhere and at any time. StudioConnect HD gives you the multi-tracking flexibility and studio-quality audio on your iPad and your Mac. That way, the technology stays out of your way and you stay focused on the important stuff: your riff, your lyrics, your song.

FEATURES
Up to 24-bit / 96k HD recording on your Mac or iPad
Inputs for mics, instruments, and MIDI devices
Outputs for monitors, MIDI devices, and headphones
Includes Apple Lightning Connector, Apple 30-pin Connector, and USB to mini USB cables
Dedicated monitor volume control
Charges your iPad while in use
Compatible apps:

GarageBand (iOS, Mac OS X)
Logic Pro X (Mac OS X)
Auria (iOS)
JamUp / BIAS (iOS)
SPECS
HD recording at up to 24-bit/96kHz
2 combo XLR/instrument inputs with independent gain control
USB MIDI in/out
5-pin MIDI in/out
+48 V phantom power
Balanced 1/4" TRS output for monitors
-20 dB pad
LED input/clip indicators
Compatible with OS X 10.8 and 10.9

Elantric

For live band recording I have my sights on one of these

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11728.0





Cymatic uTRACK24 is Three products in one, for an unprecedented value.
The Cymatic Audio uTrack24 is three product in one 24-IN / 24-OUT RECORDER-PLAYER-INTERFACE for your Mac or PC. Now you can Capture, playback and edit audio all in one device. Perfect for live events, houses of worship and more!

Features:
24-Channel Multi-Track Recorder
Allows connection of 24 channels of balanced input/output through 25-pin D-Sub connectors
Alternate format 24x24 I/O using optional digital expansion module
24-bit resolution, 96kHz sample rate
Records directly to off-the-shelf USB hard drives attached to convenient front-panel USB port
3-segment hardware input metering per input channel
Large, easy to use illuminated front panel transport controls
Internal DSP mixer allows internal monitoring of stereo mix of all 24 inputs through front-panel headphone Output. Adjust level, panning, mute, and solo for all 24-inputs while enjoying detailed 24-segment hardware input metering, all with no external mixer required!
Synchronize two uTrack 24 recorders for a total track count of 48 tracks
RJ-45 Network connection allowing for future implementation of remote control from external software (not yet available)
BNC Word Clock Input/Output allows integration into larger digital systems
Large, detailed LCD screen, dedicated menu buttons, and rotary push control allow for fast and intuitive adjustment of various settings

24-Channel Multi-Track Player
Play back up to 24 tracks of audio, perfect for "virtual sound check" duties or augmenting live players with pre-recorded tracks
Play back of Standard MIDI Files
Free, downloadable playlist editor allows you to easily create custom audio playlists, with customization capabilities such as:
Assigning an audio file's output channel
Creating set lists
Set pause times between songs
Assigning continuous play between songs
Edit song order, on the fly, from the front panel
Playback Start and Stop via front-panel footswitch input
Loop playback and mark-in/mark-out points allows for easy looping

24-input, 24-output Computer Audio Interface
The uTrack24 also works as a powerful and affordable 24x24 computer audio interface
Dedicated control room and headphone outputs with individual hardware level controls
24-bit/96kHz support
Compatible with OSX, Windows, and iOS

Elantric

#61
Quote
EDIT:  Just saw above - {Roland Duo Capture EX} only 16-bit audio when connected to iPad would be a deal breaker.

Its not confirmed - just something I recall reported by someone  -still need to hear from an actual user.


Looks like "bbob" owns one!

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9903.msg72343#msg72343

bbob wrote>
I have the Roland Duo Capture EX and IME the batteries only last a few hours.  I switched to rechargeable batteries.  ;D

Bob

amplayer

#62
Quote from: SuperNiCd on July 10, 2014, 03:03:52 PM
EDIT:  Just saw above - only 16-bit audio when connected to iPad would be a deal breaker.

Why is 16-bit audio a deal breaker?
24-bit conversion, if the converter is really top notch, is definitely better.
However, unless you're recording highly dynamic music, the difference is subtle.
Here's a good article about it: http://tweakheadz.com/16-bit-vs-24-bit-audio/

Elantric

#63
Read

Behringer IS-202
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=9005.0


June 2014  - I abandoned further effort on the Behringer iStudio IS202 - due to the limited USB Interface that restricts all Audio I/O to iPad to 16 bits - Modern IOS Amp Sims ( Positive Grid BIAS/JAMUP PRO) really reveal the shortcomings of 16 bit Audio. The latest iPads running IOS6-7 now support Multi-channel 24 bit Audio.   

For my latest recommended iPad Guitar Interface(24bit I/O, full MIDI I/O, Battery powered for 6 hours use)Read this thread below

Use Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 + Fishman Tripleplay with iPad on Battery Power
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=10323.msg74428#msg74428



supernicd

#64
QuoteWhy is 16-bit audio a deal breaker?

I also notice a large difference recording vocals. The human voice is a highly dynamic instrument. :)

I read in a review somewhere that in iPad mode the Duo EX only does 44.1k sampling as opposed to 48k.  That would be fine.  Frankly my ears cannot hear one bit of difference between 44.1 and 192kHz sampling rate.  The difference between 16 and 24 bit resolution can be night and day for some material though.

Any rumors as to when the Griffin unit will hit the shelves?  That looks really good on paper!  I wonder what the pres will be like in it.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

bbob

Quote from: Elantric on July 10, 2014, 02:53:12 PM

Consider this - But Review the Owners Manual, as I recall the "iPad Compatibility  / USB Audio Compliant Mode"  - rumor is the ipad only sees the Roland Duo Capture as 16 bit audio not 24 bit.

How would I test this?

Bob

Elantric

#66
I use my ears and launch BIAS, as this app makes it easy to hear 24 bits vs 16 bits.

I own a few confirmed 24 bit interfaces (IRig Pro) and that's become my basis for comparison.
My Sonuus I2M has a decent preamp but is only 16 bit and once you hear the unmistakable granularity of using a 16 bit interface with Positive Grid BIAS your ears learn to appreciate a superior sound from a true 24 bit interface


Edit - Confirmed  - Roland Duo Capture EX is a fine 24 bit Audio  / MIDI Interface for IPad/ IPhone - but use NiMH Rechargable AA batteries to obtain 6 hours of use per charge   

amplayer

#67
Quote from: Elantric on July 11, 2014, 08:10:48 AM
I use my ears and launch BIAS, as this app makes it easy to hear 24 bits vs 16 bits.

I own a few confirmed 24 bit interfaces (IRig Pro) and that's become my basis for comparison.
My Sonuus I2M has a decent preamp but is only 16 bit and once you hear the unmistakable granularity of using a 16 bit interface with Positive Grid BIAS your ears learn to appreciate a superior sound from a true 24 bit interface

Am I correct in my understanding that these comparisons are with different converters?

Here is another way to compare 24-bit vs. 16-bit recording depth.
Use a single 24-bit converter that can operate in both 16 and 24 bit modes.
For instance, Ableton Live allows the user to set the bit depth to either 24 or 16 in the preferences.
Using a 24-bit A/D, recordings at both bit depths in Live can be made with the same A/D.
Using a 24-bit D/A to monitor both the 16 and 24 bit depth A/D recordings, any differences heard are only due to the 8-bit truncation of the A/D path.

An even better test would be to do the above 16 vs. 24 bit depth comparison using everything from line level signals to signals that have to be amplified significantly by the preamplifier (such as recording voice or acoustic instruments with microphones with/without phantom power).

supernicd

The test would be about whether the audio interface delivers 24-bit resolution through the entire signal path from A/D conversion all the way to the recorded track on an iPad specifically, rather than on a PC/Mac.  Auria doesn't have an option to manually specify the bit depth.  Cubasis for iPad does, though.  Perhaps the experiment you describe below could be conducted there.  In the end you'd still be relying on your ears but at least you could potentially A/B the same recorded material for comparison.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

amplayer

Quote from: SuperNiCd on July 11, 2014, 12:06:37 PM
The test would be about whether the audio interface delivers 24-bit resolution through the entire signal path from A/D conversion all the way to the recorded track on an iPad specifically, rather than on a PC/Mac.  Auria doesn't have an option to manually specify the bit depth.  Cubasis for iPad does, though.  Perhaps the experiment you describe below could be conducted there.  In the end you'd still be relying on your ears but at least you could potentially A/B the same recorded material for comparison.

My point is that if you have a single 24-bit interface that limits itself to only 16 bit resolution when recording to the iPad, the difference in resolution may not matter, or might be very small, or might be large enough to care about it.  A proper test on a system with that converter in both modes would let you know if the difference exists enough to matter.  I guess you'd have to test on a PC or on Cubasis for iPad.

supernicd

Yep, point well taken.  I don't own the device in question, but am considering a purchase.  Bbob does have the Roland Duo Capture EX, and, I think, was offering to test 24-bit depth recording on iPad for us, if we could offer up a procedure.  I'm not sure there is a procedure that doesn't involve letting your ears be your guide, though.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

Elantric

#71
But know that you can test any audio interface for consideration using nothing more than

* Positive Grid BIAS Running any High Gain amp

* Electric Guitar with humbuckers  and set its Volume knob down to  "3" (not 10)

Under the above test conditions 16 bit Audio Interface will always reveal a poor noise floor compared to a  24 bit interface .

Its really apparent  - the 16 bit interfaces always have a lot of hiss in this situation.

and the 24 bit ones do not.

Of course the Instrument preamp employed is crucial and plays a big role in noise floor too.

But here in my test lab I have already reviewed many many interfaces

Avoid 16 interfaces, as there is currently a bit of a marketing shell game afoot  - many of these new IOS Audio Inteface products (ike Alesis IO Dock) boast 24 bit A/d and D/A - but fail to mention that the important USB Audio Class Compliant Streaming IC used at the dock port USB interface failto mention they do not pass 24 bit audio - thus this becomes the bottle neck and truncates  all audio down to 16 bits.
I use my ears and launch BIAS, as this app makes it easy to hear 24 bits vs 16 bits.
Quote
My point is that if you have a single 24-bit interface that limits itself to only 16 bit resolution when recording to the iPad, the difference in resolution may not matter, or might be very small, or might be large enough to care about it.

TRUE - However  "RECORDING ON IPAD is an entirely different application  - I'm specifically talking about the impact of audio interface bit resolution when using Positive Grid BIAS Amp modeler - which has higher performance demand and  requirements compared to  simply trying to record clean audio on the IPAD using Meteor, Cubasis, Auria DAW, N-Track Studio, etc

supernicd

Good stuff, here.  In the end, sounds like the best bet may be to buy one from a retailer with a good return policy and make sure it meets my needs.
Strat w/ GK-3, Godin LGXT
VG-99, GR-55, GP-10
---------------------------------------------------------------

bbob

Quote from: SuperNiCd on July 11, 2014, 12:34:26 PM
Bbob does have the Roland Duo Capture EX, and, I think, was offering to test 24-bit depth recording on iPad for us

I'll try to get to this asap. 

Kind of up to my ears in other time bandits over the next few days.

Thanks.

Bob

shawnb

#74
Quote from: amplayer on July 10, 2014, 04:29:28 PM
Why is 16-bit audio a deal breaker?

For most casual purposes 16 vs 24-bit is not a problem.  You can play on your practice amp & think it sounds great - and it does.  Left lightly processed & amplified moderately it's OK.  Perfect for a hobbyist - who will never take it to a practice studio, recording studio or live venue (at "11"). 

To my ear, 16 bit sounds noticeably weaker when you (a) amplify it LOUD for a live setting, thru an amp or PA, or (b) run it into a DAW and further process it with VSTs.   In either of these scenarios, the noise floor issue Elantric referenced above is an issue, plus, the simple fact that you're putting a much (256x) lower rez signal thru digital processing. 

It's like running a 480-x640 jpeg thru photoshop.  No matter what you do even with Photoshop's advanced algorithms & technology, it's still a low rez pic...  Zoom in closely and it's obvious.  Loud volume is the audio equivalent of 'zooming in'.   

Something about processing is problematic, too...  If you're gonna run your signal thru some VSTs, a 16 bit source and a 24-bit source sound pretty different.  It's like digital processing amplifies any issues/artifacts from the lower-rez input.  It sounds like .mp3s...

Not a very scientific analysis, I admit.  But to my ears, 16 bits is excellent until you amplify it or significantly process it... 
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp