GR-55 Setups & Tone Configs that affect tracking

Started by shawnb, September 13, 2012, 11:13:27 PM

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Fusion

Yep, that is the deal I have copies of most of these in my folder binder as a supplement to the manual.
Priceless info really. I also found the "Hexiphonic Settings" paper extremely useful as a short cut to setting the params on the GK.
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

concordal


Quote from: Fusion on February 21, 2015, 03:22:02 AM
Was this PCM - TVF or TVA or both on the -50attack and -15release? I've been trying it on the TVA and it does seem to help.

What was the answer to Fusion's question?

Elantric

#52
Read GR-55 FAQ here for more details on the GR-55  PCM's

* TVF ( Time Variant Filter )

* TVA ( Time Variant Amplifier )

parameters   
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4006.msg30460#msg30460

If you are clueless about all these GR-55 PCM Synth parameters and settings and how they inter-operate

Roland Glossary of Terms
http://www.rolandus.com/support/glossary_of_terms/

Looks like the Roland SD-90 Studio Canvas Owners Manual is a Must Read for GR-55 Owners interested in mastering the PCM Synth Engine.
http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1811325/SD-90_e3.pdf


see this post and download the Analog Synthesis Primer by Martin Russ
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6418.msg44034#msg44034

and

Gordon Reid's SOS Synth Secrets series
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

Gumtown's GR-55 Editor has a mode to reveal the sysex commands which control bulk of GR-55 parameters






concordal

Thanks, Elantric.  I have read virtually all of the literature that you pointed to.  And actually understand some (gulp) of it.

I do appreciate that the same questions - in different forms - get asked over and over.  And for many of those questions it's often just a case of RTFM (Read the *** manual).   But not everyone has the same comprehension of technical material.

The original post that Fusion was asking about seemed to suggest a quick tip that I haven't seen here before.  I've used the excellent resources provided in the GR-55 downloads area at (https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;cat=18) and they have cut way down on the glitches.  shawnb's tips at https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6972.0 are super and even include a patch to test out your settings.

I was hoping (as Fusion probably was) that the suggestion for the attack and release parameters might help deal with the remaining glitches on the really difficult PCMs like piano and harpsichord.  And if it did help, that might also add to my understanding of the TVF and TVA parameters.

Fusion

To say all the params are complex is to grossly understate the many infinite options available. And if you understand all the issues of the PCM adjustments, amazing, I am like a person listening to a language I cannot speak. I did find lowering the TVA attack can help tracking on somethings. Everything is a try and see issue as the infinite variables of ones hands and style to their guitar and setup on the GR is truly infinite in scope.
I love this unit but at times it gets so over my head and I have been a musician for 40yrs and thought I knew guitar chains in all directions. You have to love something that exceeds your imagination and ability to master the programming. I cannot see outgrowing this unit as there is just so much one can experiment with.
I was just pondering the ability to change tone numbers six times on one preset and more if you use the GK1.GK2 switches which I tend to like to keep on bank changes to avoid stomping the floor switches to death.
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

shawnb

#55
I haven't tried it yet, but this idea makes perfect sense to me.   Many of the doubled notes & glitch notes are very short in duration.  Thus, a slower attack & a rapid release could basically make those "invisible".   

TVA would be easier to do, since 'time variant amplifier' means they're putting an envelope over the VOLUME over time.  You can configure it to start low volume & increase over time.  Thus, the voice would still be quiet when the note ends - pretty much unheard.   

TVF would also work, since the 'time variant filter' could be setup to basically mute the sound at the beginning, e.g., a high-pass filter with a very high frequency (allowing nothing) that would decrease over time or a low pass filter with a very low frequency (also allowing nothing) that would increase over time.   I haven't tried it, but I think this would be more practical with synth voices. 

I suspect many of the factory preset PCM voices already use this technique to mask extra notes & glitches.  It just won't/can't work for 'percussive' voices with very rapid attack - such as drums & piano. 

On pg 5 under "note doubling" in my writeup I do mention "Try voices that have slower attack or are mellower in tone".   I wasn't sure how practical it was, since the problem voices are the rapid attack voices.  The slower attack also operates on the notes you DO want to hear; I never experimented putting a slow attack on drums. 

Experiment!   And if you create piano/drums that don't double-up, share the patches!!!
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Fusion

I did notice some of the piano things have a little faster attack which makes sense to everything you said. I still have tracking issue on my pianos but horns and stuff are doing well on the reduced attack. Maybe the answer to the piano thing is faster attack and slower release??
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

Ordinariyus

#57
Hello everybody.

I have a problem with my Gr-55 and gk-3 set.I installed Gk-3 set to my Les Paul.When I play PCM sounds I hear different note from that I played.I mean I can't get the notes clearly.I think I couldn't set Gk-3 properly so it causes this issue.Also lover strings have trigger issue.For example when I play 5 note it gives me just 2 or 3.This problems only in PCM sounds.Is there any solution for this problem ? Is there anyone who have same issue with Gk-3 ? I haven't got budget to buy Fender GC-1 or something.

Thanks.

shawnb

This is not common behavior.   Initial thoughts are the gk is not setup correctly....    Is it mounted close to bridge?   How close?    How close to the strings?   1mm per instructions?

If the gk install is per spec, id try a reset....
Address the process rather than the outcome.  Then, the outcome becomes more likely.   - Fripp

Fusion

Not sure this has ever been mentioned but guitar strings have an effect on the tracking as well.
Some have vastly differing output sensitivity, if the gain is too high it makes for false triggering as the pickup is getting a little from the strings next to the string in question. Most of the time it is a slight brush or contact with the other strings that makes for tracking burbles. You have to adapt to playing pretty clean with the synth and not overtly harsh, one has to adapt to the envelope of of the instrument being mimicked. I noticed when I changed to my Thomastik-Infeld Power Brights the output on the strings was significantly more that my former D'Addario's had to readjust the sensitivity which I tend to run about 75% of the scale.
I do wonder if more flat or semi-flat wound jazz strings would track better and it seems could be compensated on the COSM it you want more traditional bright attack gains. I think I will try some other sets of the Thomastik-Infeld just because I am new to this great manufacturer and want to experiment with their different types.
For std guitar I love the Power Bright, Heavy Bottoms (11-50).
"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

Elantric

QuoteNot sure this has ever been mentioned but guitar strings have an effect on the tracking as well.

True, read:
Best strings for VGuitarSystems
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1606.0

Also the type of Pick/Plectrum makes a difference too

Is your PICK giving you ghost notes?
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=4324.msg29221#msg29221

Randy james

#61
hello everyone...first post here on site and really glad i found you guys....also the proud new owner of a used GR-55 unit...well i've been reading the threads on this site and watching video's on youtube to try and get a crash course on getting me some decent sounds that fit the band i'm in.....been doing pretty good so far....but ran into a snag with some decent piano sounds.....it was squacking...and squilling....so i found out about the chromatic function....turned that on....helped....but still making some unwanted noise's.....is there a certain setting i'm missing in the piano area that could help clear some of this unwanted noise up?.....any responce is much appreciated.....thanks Randy

Fusion

I think you will find, like I did, this site exponentially accelerated my learning curve of the GR. Takes a few weeks to understand this unit and the various adjustments and so on. You should download all the doc files as they have tips on things, which you are not going to just discover by accident. GK-3 setup is extremely important and some good settings tips on all of that.

There is a million params and options so an issue of noise could be just about anything.
Hard to make a guess at that. What is the PCM tone level and any post effects in the selected routing chain? Output mode set to the proper config for your given amplification setup?
Have you downloaded the free Floorboard editor and the GR library software? If you have the blue unit it needs the last updates Roland issued.

Killer unit, I have learned something new about mine at least once a week for tone patch ideas and multiple switch assigns. I am just thinking I have never once even listened to or gone through any of the factory patches, everything has been created from scratch or heavily modified. Despite there are libraries of user patches I never seem to be able to use anything someone makes as my rig is different and the way I play I suppose is my own so why wouldn't my tones be custom. Factory patches to me are a waste of memory, always seems to be that way on units that have multiple patch ability. The only thing I have ever hear of that had usable factory stuff is probably Kemper or Fractal. So bottom line, this is a programming intensive unit and it takes some headphone editing time to create things and figure it out then tweak for live sound.

"Long ago in days of old when magic filled the air..."

alexmcginness

VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

jazzmon

great i just down loaded the doc;s and now going to read it all

robwatt

Thanks for posting this great information. It helps me a lot.

jeremydunit

this was all so helpful. I'm new to this and without this information I would have sent  my unit back.
schecter hellraiser with gk3 on the bridge, gr55 and more to come!

Bertovzki

#67
Hi , new member here , i dont know what thread to start asking questions here , i need some advice on settings best for my specific set up , i have just bought a Godin XTSA think 2015 model , I am getting fret buzz on some patches or instruments like the piano for eg. , I have a GR 55 , GT100 , RC 300 , only problem with tracking in GR 55 , can someone please give some advise as to what settings in GR55 , also just got Godin yesterday , there is some fret buzz acoustically  audible on the A string , maybe some relief on neck and adjusting bridge higher on that string in particular , but i do get it on D and E too which dont have any noticeable fret buzz

I did get settings off this sight for my guitar in another forum here somewhere , not sure if there can be some improvement made on settings or guitar action to solve issue of unwanted triggers , unwanted hammer ons between whole step notes.
Any help greatly appreciated Thanks.

Elantric

Read whole thread here

Godin xtSA
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=3912.0

Quoteto solve issue of unwanted triggers , unwanted hammer ons between whole step notes.
Get the frets leveled, dressed and polished on your Godin by a Luthier  - The Frets make a huge difference for all aspects of VGuitar

Bertovzki

#69
Great thanks for reply , settings seems to have eliminated issue , i will probably still get frets dressed , but huge improvement already , and have trouble getting it to false trigger with the piano now , just one note very occasionally , which i can live with or adjust playing to avoid it.

CVS

I saw this on page one of this thread

Some of you may already know this, but if you want to seriously minimize mis-triggers and be able to play a little more loosely set the
PCM 1 and/or 2 (depending on which ones you're using or maybe both like me most of the time) ATK to -50 and REL anywhere from -15 to -50.

This has actually helped decide to keep the 55 when I was on the fence and ready to buy an FTP.

I literally get almost no mis-triggers with these settings, even on the low E string.

Try it!

I have been to the owners manual on pages 26 & 27 (PCM tones) and I am not sure which specific settings I should adjust. If any of you know can you please let me and others know. I am willing to try just about anything to reduce the number of mis- triggers - my biggest "beef" with the GR55.