Ricky Graham's Septar Kit for Hex Guitar to PC processiing with Pure Data (PD)

Started by neophytte, July 23, 2011, 05:59:42 AM

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neophytte

Hi all,

I stumbled across this site the other day, offering kits to split a 13 pin input into 6 outputs, one per string. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere else on this site ...

http://rickygraham.com/pages/septar-kits
http://rickygraham.com/
Cheers

Richard

Elantric

I already placed an order  - takes about 2 weeks for USA delivery.


some more details here:




Ricky Graham's Septar board and his hex guitar experiments in "Pure Data":
http://rickygraham.com/

http://rickygraham.com/septar-board-beta-kits-june-2011

Demo videos here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/rickygrahammusic





Learn more about PD "Pure Data" here:

http://puredata.info/

Pd (aka Pure Data) is a real-time graphical programming environment for audio, video, and graphical processing. It is the third major branch of the family of patcher programming languages known as Max (Max/FTS, ISPW Max, Max/MSP, jMax, etc.) originally developed by Miller Puckette and company at IRCAM. The core of Pd is written and maintained by Miller Puckette and includes the work of many developers, making the whole package very much a community effort.

Pd was created to explore ideas of how to further refine the Max paradigm with the core ideas of allowing data to be treated in a more open-ended way and opening it up to applications outside of audio and MIDI, such as graphics and video.

It is easy to extend Pd by writing object classes ("externals") or patches ("abstractions"). The work of many developers is already available as part of the standard Pd packages and the Pd developer community is growing rapidly. Recent developments include a system of abstractions for building performance environments; a library of objects for physical modeling; and a library of objects for generating and processing video in realtime.




Gastric

Now you're talking! DIY kits, my favorite.  Most of this GK stuff doesn't seem to require a ton of electronic components. However, for the average I-can-solder-but-am-not-an-EE-person sourcing and purchasing all the goodies and building it yourself is challenging.

Note they make stacked 1/4" switched jacks now which would help reduce the build overall as you could use a single board with nearly the same footprint and lets you jam the jacks into a smaller chassis since 6 (2x3) take up way less space than 6 (1x6) plus two boards. That'd be a slight improvement overall IMO.

Elantric

QuoteNote they make stacked 1/4" switched jacks now which would help reduce the build overall as you could use a single board with nearly the same footprint and lets you jam the jacks into a smaller chassis since 6 (2x3) take up way less space than 6 (1x6) plus two boards. That'd be a slight improvement overall IMO.

Please post  URL link for the dual stacked 1/4" jacks.

Gastric

Commonly used in many production boards as it's a huge board and chassis space saver.  More pricey than 2 of the regular switched single Neutrik jacks though, and these don't include the necessary nuts and washers though they may have a product that does.

JACK http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=43pPWqpsSNuxu1dXwKXeEA%3d%3d
NUT http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=S12Y1JoqO2A%2fB2tjq8cO2w%3d%3d
WASHER http://mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=R5cXQUTKuHVToIYXWdibLA%3d%3d

I originally discovered these when disassembling an Alesis Trigger IO. You can see my photos here: http://www.cgraham.com/chris/music/edrums/Alesis_TriggerIO_disassembled_jacks.zip

I don't think these are the EXACT same jacks on the Trigger IO but they're functionally the same I believe.

I'm not good at sourcing this stuff myself and have to rely on others.

Kevin M

Doesn't the RMC fanout box already serve the purpose of taking 13-pin input and giving six individual outputs in a ready-made product?

Gastric

RMC Fanout is an excellent product. It's the $395 price that kills it for me.

neophytte

Yes, I believe the RMC fanout box is good (I don't own one), but the price is a drawback; the pricing on the Septar kit seems more reasonable.

And I'm not associated to the site, just ordered one, and thought others might like to know about it - although I understand not everyone will want to assemble a kit ...

Cheers

Richard

gumbo

Hi Richard..

I bought one of these...we are paying fairly dearly for the components (about 10AUD, I reckon, particularly at multiple pricing) however I am willing to pay for someone's research... 

Yet to assemble it all..busy time at work just now...

Interested to hear as to how yours works out.

Cheers!
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

neophytte

Quote from: gumbo on August 10, 2011, 05:51:14 AM
I bought one of these...we are paying fairly dearly for the components (about 10AUD, I reckon, particularly at multiple pricing) however I am willing to pay for someone's research... 

Yep, same here, although I still haven't received mine yet .. will post some pics upon completion ...

Cheers

Richard

neophytte

Mine arrived yesterday, I got the output jacks soldered,but am anticipating a slow build ...

Cheers

Richard

gumbo

Hi Richard..

Now you've got it, I can tell you that mine was badly packed, with all the bits flopping around inside a padded (?) postbag inside some second-hand plastic zip bags...one of these let go, & some bits were loose inside the main bag...

The PCBs were not clean, and the (advertised) paper instructions were not included...   I had previously downloaded them from the website, so had the information anyway...but that's not the point...

A couple of other important projects have slipped in before my construction of this one, so I've just carefully repacked the components and put them in a container WITH A LID (!!) until I can get to it.. ;)

I thought that for the money, the inclusion of some posts would have been a nice touch...instead of the expectation of re-using the cut-off legs of the resistors, etc.,  but perhaps that's just me having too high ideas...

We'll see where it all goes, and I'm certainly interested to see how you get on with yours..


Cheers from the East..
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

neophytte

Hi,

Yes, mine was received in a similar state (I thought there were some components missing), but I've received worse packed items (see eBay!). Managed to get a few more bits on last night, slowly but surely.

Hopefully this weekend, the missus is taking Mr. 2yo to the shops for a couple of hours, so I'm planning on building a box for the unit.

Cheers

Richard

septarboards

Hi Folks,

I am really pleased to read discussion on this project, and thank you to those of you who have purchased the beta kits. I very much appreciate the interest and support. I would encourage you all to contact me directly if you have any issues with the kits, given that this is a personal project. However, since there have been a few comments on a public forum without any correspondence with me directly, I feel I should clarify some concerns which have been raised.

This is a very small operation, which serves the purpose of academic research. There is no money behind it. All design, parts and postage are covered by the time and money of the two individuals involved (myself and an engineer). The kits are sold as a beta project, not as a polished professional corporate product (although perhaps it may result in a more professional product, which is heavily dependent upon the feedback we receive at this stage of the research). This should be clear from the blog entries, website etc.

In terms of pricing, I can assure you that we have made the kit as affordable as possible. We have to take into consideration the time and effort made by the engineer to construct each circuit board. If you believe you are able to source parts at a cheaper price in your home country or elsewhere, you are welcome to source the parts by yourself and we may then arrange to send the parts which you require at a discounted price.

Professional packaging is currently unaffordable, hence the reuse of existing packaging from parts. I do apologise if the packaging condition does not meet your expectations. Please bare in mind the kits are coming from the U.K. My largest concern is that all parts and components reach you safely and in good condition. If this has not been the case, you should contact me immediately. I have not received any correspondence thus far, and after reading some comments here, I am wondering why?

Please note that it does not list anywhere on the website that paper instructions will be provided. This was not advertised at any point. Instructions are made available for download and are sent via email to each individual who purchases a kit. So, please, for whatever reason, do not expect paper instructions.

While I encourage online discussion - again, please contact me directly if you have any issues concerning these kits. We are keen to improve them, perhaps in order to develop them into a more professional product. I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the build and audio quality of the kits.

@gastric - Your stacked jack socket suggestion has been noted! Thank you.
@gumbo - Posts are noted for the next re-design. Please elaborate on your comment concerning the "cleanliness" of the boards? I am not sure I understand.

Thank you kindly for your thoughts in advance.

neophytte

Hi Ricky,

Glad you found this board, I did write some emails to you after I purchased the kit, but I'll add the comments here for completeness.

Apologies if there have been some comments that were unexpected here, I initially started this thread to let people know about your product, as it's geared towards a fairly small specialized group, and the people that read these messages are in that particular group. I mentioned in a previous post here that this is the most affordable way that I have found to use a 13 pin output to separate channels - there is another kit (that I am aware of) which does this, but it is a bit more expensive (from memory), and the RMC fan out box, which someone pointed out above is ~$us400.

With respect to my comments above, the bit where I mention I thought some components were missing is where one of the zip-lock bags had come open, and a couple of the capacitors were at the bottom of the padded bag - in my haste in opening the padded bag one of them dropped on the carpet, so in the end it was a combination of errors. I was in the midst of starting an email to you when I looked down and found it, so the email never went (and it would have been more to inform you, rather than asking for a new 10c component to be sent from the UK).

I mentioned to you in our email correspondence about a guy on eBay who is selling the 13pin PCB mount sockets, which I think would be a great addition to your kit - my soldering skills probably aren't up to wiring the supplied 13 pin in-line cable (although admittedly I haven't tried it), and I did mention in another thread that I purchased a spare 10 foot 13 pin cable with the intent of lopping off one of the ends and using that as the input source.

As you've opened up the forum for suggestions, can I also say that perhaps a suggested fascia diagram for a box design (certainly the distance between the 1/4" jacks) may help in your PDF.

Currently my Septar Kit is on hold, as I went about installing a GK-Kit in my guitar, and this pic shows the progress I had made to that point:



I'm hoping this thread hasn't discouraged you in any way, as I said it was initially to let others know in this group about your product.

Cheers

Richard

Brent Flash

Welcome to the group septarboards! (aka Ricky Graham!)   :)

septarboards

Hi Richard,

The last email I received from your good self was in regard to the PCB mount suggestion. I have not received anything since that time. I must check the spam folder. You are all very much entitled to your own thoughts and feelings on this project, and I welcome all comments (good or bad) whole heartedly. It is certainly not discouraging, in actual fact, I find it very encouraging that rigorous discussion is taking place. We have a few more of the current beta kits available, and then we plan a redesign and a re-release in 2012 (probably a little more expensive, but again we are trying to keep costs as low as possible). Personally, I am more interested in guitar players exploiting "MIDI Technology" for polyphonic audio purposes as I really believe this approach can open new creative possibilities, so much so I wrote my doctoral thesis concerning this approach within the context of performance and composition.

I am really pleased to see your kit taking shape, and will certainly take on board all comments that have been stated here to improve the current kits, and also I will put further consideration into the distance they have to travel. I really do not want to limit the kits to the UK and Europe, and thus I may have to charge a little more for postage for some studier packaging for longer distances.

Please keep your comments coming in!

Best wishes and thanks,

Ricky

@Brent Flash - Thank you!

gumbo

Hi Ricky,

I am replying to you via your recent personal email.

Regards,
Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

septarboards

I received the mail and will respond asap.

Thank you.

JohnMethyu

The "Septar" board functions as a break out box for polyphonic audio pick-up systems for electric guitar (including those designed solely for MIDI application) to allow audio for each string. Septar Kits will be made available for those using the Graphtech
Hexpander pickup system.It is one of the best audio system for polyphonic devices.

Elantric

Quotefor those using the Graphtech Hexpander pickup system.It is one of the best audio system for polyphonic devices.

My own A/B comparison of the Graphtech Hexpander and a RMC PolyDrive II (and even the Roland GK-3) reveals the Hexpander has more residual background hiss & noise, compared to the RMC or Roland.

Just stating my experience with these.

septarboards

@JohnMethyu I notice you have simply copied and pasted something I have already written on my website, not that I mind :) Could you elaborate on your feedback? Have you purchased a "Septar Kit?" How was your build experience?

@Elantric Was your A/B test with the Septar Kit, or are your comments related to use with the pickup systems in general?

Elantric

Quote@Elantric Was your A/B test with the Septar Kit, or are your comments related to use with the pickup systems in general?

My observations on noise were done independent from the Septar kit.

Its a "garbage in  > Garbage out " world -

I'm simply pointing out the for the lowest noise and best signal from a hex PU 13 pin interface, the Graphtech Hexpander would be at the bottom of my list of possible choices for hex preamp sources to feed your low noise FET Septar kit.


True - I like the modularity of the GraphTech design, but running audio tests of the final resulting signal places it at the back of the pack, compared to the competition.


septarboards

Interesting. I'd be keen to hear your thoughts on whether the Septar kit improves upon this situation. I personally use Graphtech on a regular basis, and with earlier beta tests. We were able to improve the signal quality considerably. Our RMC and Roland beta tests were also quite positive, particularly the RMC given that it is piezo based. Thanks for the comments.

Elantric