Modeling various Musical Instruments on the SY-1000

Started by Harry1227, October 10, 2021, 04:34:53 AM

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Harry1227

Hello.

Recently, I got carried away with the physical modeling of music instruments. I created several patches for percussion, violins and saxophone.
Here are some demos of my patches.
- ERSATZ ACCOMP
With the SY-1000 and this patch, you can play drums-percussion, bass-synthetic bass, synthesizer (a bit like an electric piano) and guitar in one take.
In the demo, the first themes are played by fingers. At the end of the demo, the synthpunk theme is played by a pick.

- Sy1000 some violas theme and Sy1000 Sweet dreams Theme are played by a pick in two takes - first a staccato riff, and then a legato violin.

- ERSATZ ACCOMP+Viola Stacc+Ambient GTR
Here I first recorded a stacato cello riff. Then using the patch ERSATZ ACCOMP I added percussion, bass, synthesizer and guitar. Then I recorded ambient guitar.

- ERSATZ ACCOMP+sax

Here I recorded a saxophone over the ERSATZ ACCOMP demo.

The saxophone patch was not easy to do. But it seems to have turned out well.
The saxophone part is improvisational here, so the fake notes are present.
I played it with a pick without using any third party devices such as a midi breathe controller.

[cloudset]https://soundcloud.com/ifo4ssu2ylhi/sets/sy-1000-musical-instrument?si=bb444fa3469d4d59a8ad6e2b2fa246a5
[/cloudset]

In these demos, the patches sound without any third-party processing (IR-convolution is not used!).

So you can live without an impulse player. But I think it would be faster and easier to get the right sound with it.

stub


JiveTurkey

That sounds GREAT! Any chance of sharing the presets?

Harry1227

Quote from: JiveTurkey on October 10, 2021, 11:34:44 AM
That sounds GREAT! Any chance of sharing the presets?

You can send me a message which of these presets you want to buy.

Harry1227

Quote from:  Bluesbird on October 10, 2021, 12:45:42 PM
That a joke?  If not, this place ain't what it used to be.
Every joke has its own share of the joke. Especially when the joke is not very funny.
With this, I tried to change the direction of the discussion in this thread. It is very important for me to know your opinion on what can make these sounds more realistic.
Besides the nuances of guitar playing, what elements of synthesizer automation will give you the feel of a real instrument?

Also I propose to discuss here methods and solutions for animating synthetic instruments using the SY-1000.
For example, the role of frequency masking and the phaser effect in additive synthesis can be discussed. You can also discuss the role of reverb in modeling acoustic instrument resonator casings.

PS
The Boss SY-1000 is a complex tool. It is sometimes difficult for a musician to understand all the intricacies of sound engineering. And I am also not happy that having bought this synthesizer, I cannot immediately get the sounds I need. It takes time and a lot of patience to learn it.

kimyo

Quote from: Harry1227 on October 10, 2021, 03:59:54 PM
Besides the nuances of guitar playing, what elements of synthesizer automation will give you the feel of a real instrument?

perhaps this is not what you meant, but i'm looking for sy-1000 patches with more expression options, akin to a 'typical' keyboard-based synth.

things like modwheel control of filter cutoff or lfo rate.  someday i'll look thru the sy-1000 synth patches more thoroughly but so far i can't think of any which have a modwheel-like assign.

as an example, if one wanted to play the synth solo in elp's 'from the beginning' one would need modwheel control.

i'd also like patches with a hold function, say a drone or arp sustain, perhaps on one string only.


chrish

#6
Quote from: Harry1227 on October 10, 2021, 03:59:54 PM

The Boss SY-1000 is a complex tool. It is sometimes difficult for a musician to understand all the intricacies of sound engineering. And I am also not happy that having bought this synthesizer, I cannot immediately get the sounds I need. It takes time and a lot of patience to learn it.
Yes the SY1000 is complex as are most of the other GRs and VG's. There has been a patch sharing  tradition here since I downloaded VG 8 patches at Aure's VG8 site back in the 90's to downloading VG99 patches at this site.

Being able to take one of thoses shared patches and see how that patch was created helped me, and I'm sure others, learn some of complexities that these machines have to offer.

For example, on member Smash's VG99 Blade Runner patch that he not only shared, but provided a YouTube example,, the modulation of the individual string volume and pan  gives a sound fantastic movement. The youtube demo gave a good demonstration of sustaining a sound using an expression pedal virtual switch while playing leads over that sound.

It was also interesting to study ASB's VG99 patches that he shared here to see how he used effects and pitch shifting to create synth like sounds.

ASB also provided excellent performance examples so a novice sound designer like myself could see how that sound was used.

Without those members and many others freely sharing their work and gear knowledge, I most likely would have stopped buying hex tech with the GR50 and VG8.

Now with the sy-1000 I'm able to program the patches I want and I hear in,my head and so far haven't found the need to download patches.

I'm curious as to how you learned sound design?

jozart

#7
I'm interested in critiquing the patches. However, it's difficult for me to critique a patch unless I can try it myself. Some patches are sensitive to the performance technique, and it is difficult for me to determine this without seeing and/or recreating the performance. And, um, I should probably also mention that I play electric violin...

gumtown

#8
The best method to critique a patch has been to attach it to a discussion thread (throw it into the arena, as so to say),
provide some thoughts on what it does and where it is going,
then others can download it,
try it,
test it,
adjust and tweak it.
And everyone who participates in the topic will then upload their modified and/or improved version of the patch back into the topic
(using the "Attachments and other options" below.

Not only do we get to improve our skills and learn from others techniques and critiques, but also share in the fun of being involved.  8)   
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

Harry1227

I don't know English very well. I formulate thoughts in my native language and try to translate them. Therefore, translation difficulties are present. And I've never got ready-made solutions in the form of patches that we exchange right away. They always need to be adjusted, and I also need to change the guitar technique and musical thinking. I see the whole point of my presence here in the creation and study of the methodology of sound synthesis using SY-1000. I'm trying to break down the entire setup process into basic steps. But at the moment, I only have a few patches obtained by improvisation with different synth parameters. Then comes the understanding of what musical instrument is similar to what happened. As a rule, this is only a part - an attack or a piece of timbral paint. All these small parts are preserved, then combined and adjusted to each other. And this process goes in parallel with the restructuring of the technique of playing the guitar. This is gradually developing into some kind of methodology.

Antonuzzo

Quote from:  Bluesbird on October 10, 2021, 12:45:42 PM
That a joke?  If not, this place ain't what it used to be.

That's just what I'm thinking, albeit for different reasons.

The post was asking for input on how the patches sound (and they do sound amazing – clearly pushing the SY-1000 very hard to get those tones). Those patches clearly took a lot of work to create and if the OP doesn't want to share them for free, that's surely their call?

There seems to be a lot of expectation on the part of creators to share their hard work for free, and many do, often with not even a thank you. I remember when there was a lot of pressure on Gumtown to create a GT-1 editor despite not even having one of the units himself, until Elantric gently reminded everyone that he was doing all that work for free.

I don't see anyone criticising Michael Britt et al for going down the commercial route!


Kevin M

If you're considering investing your money in patches, I would suggest you invest your money in ebooks/books on subtractive synthesis instead.  That education will go much further than the simple immediate gratification gained by purchasing a few patches.

Antonuzzo

Quote from:  Bluesbird on October 11, 2021, 05:47:06 AM
I would tell you what I think of your post, but first you must deposit money in my PayPal account—you pay fees.  Random thoughts are the cheapest, deep Plexified-style thoughts cost the most. I'm monetizing my entire existence from now on. My presence on this planet is a unique gift and I demand that people now pay for the privilege of interacting with me. You want to know what cereal I'm having for breakfast?  Sorry, it is a unique blend of General Mills, Kelloggs and Post. I also put a dried fruit variety on top. It took me days of experimentation to get the percentages perfect.

Well, all I can say is good luck with your new career path...  ;D ;D ;D

Brak(E)man

Imho
If you want to sell advice, patches etc etc.
Find another venue.
Vguitarforum has been/are a very friendly and helpful community.
Let's keep it that way.
Most other forums suffers from Napoleon syndrome
and are filled with besserwissers.
swimming with a hole in my body

I play Country music too, I'm just not sure which country it's from...

"The only thing worse than a guitar is a guitarist!"
- Lydia Lunch

Harry1227

Quote from: Kevin M on October 11, 2021, 07:13:39 AM
If you're considering investing your money in patches, I would suggest you invest your money in ebooks/books on subtractive synthesis instead.  That education will go much further than the simple immediate gratification gained by purchasing a few patches.
I support your opinion. Synthesis theory is a base that will help you understand what happens to sound when you change certain settings. But the main thing is the practice of programming SY-1000. The dynamic synthesizer in the SY-1000 is not described by any existing theory. Yes, some of its settings borrowed their name from classic synthesizers. But what they do with the sound and response to your guitar playing is a far from the usual.
The dynamic synthesizer changes its sound in NORMAL mode. The sound becomes dirtier and in this, too, you can find your aesthetics. The meaning is that on the basis of the basic theory of synthesis, we need to write our own for SY-1000. One for GK mode and one for normal mode.

admin

I'm the meantime. Others can brush up their Synth programming skill set here

Analog Synthesis Primer
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=6418.0

arkieboy

Firstly your sounds are good.  Were the price right I might consider buying a pack of sounds of this quality, partly to save time - I can programme the beast myself, but don't always have the time to get sounds I would use infrequently to this standard - and partly as an education, to pick them apart, work out what makes them tick and use that knowledge going forward.Maybe its a sign of vguitars success, Bluesbird, Brak(E)Man, that its now seen by some people as a social/sales platform in and of itself, rather than the technical resource for people to share information it has been up until now.  After all, we have primova, synthlinx, synquanon and cycfi providing valuable hardware contributions, and other larger manufacturers monitoring the forum and using it as a channel to support - why not software in the form of programmes too?  And given that eBayers will just grab all of the patches on here and try to sell them, I'm sympathetic with the desire not to let them out for free, even though I post everything I make to patch exchange.  But note that whenever I demo a patch I'll use someone else's music.  Quite often I'll have something of my own I use the sound for, but you won't hear any of that unless you come to my gigs or buy my stuff off iTunes.  So I'm not giving everything away either.


However Harry1277 if you want engagement, you're probably going to need to give something back.  What about using YouTube as a platform for describing the approach you've used to programming the sounds and linking that here?  Or maybe engaging members who are principally players as beta testers?  You're going to need somewhere to sell the sounds too ...
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

chrish

#17
Quote from: Brak(E)man on October 11, 2021, 08:11:17 AM
filled with besserwissers.
had to look that one up. You're right on that one, especially in today's Times where there are suddenly a lot of expert virologists and epidemiologists on the internet. Who knew there were so many. :)


Humity goes a long way, so does the reciprocity. Human qualities to be emulated for certain.

I learned so much from you from your generosity.

BROCKSTAR

I don't see anything wrong with selling patches. Although it's nice to have some free stuff here and there or content to watch or hear how they sound etc..

After-all if someone goes and makes an album and their in the studio arranging things, making things with their pedals as in presets for the album, synths or whatever, mixing and mastering and so and so on, it's all sound design and at the end you end up selling whatever you made.

Same as the people who makes patches and whatever else for pedals and synths and stuff.

If someone took the time and people enjoy it, then it's worth something at the end of the day just like an album of music. Also, if someone is interested then they'll go and make money off your presets/patches probably anyway!

However, I do wish more people would buy things and learn things more often. I never understood why someone buys something expensive to never learn it.

chrish

Quote from: BROCKSTAR on October 11, 2021, 01:36:24 PM
Also, if someone is interested then they'll go and make money off your presets/patches probably anyway!
make money off music. How is that done exactly? Lol

If only the Sy1000 had that magic blender button. ;)

gumbo

Quote from: chrish on October 11, 2021, 09:34:01 PM
make money off music. How is that done exactly? Lol

If only the Sy1000 had that magic blender button. ;)

It needs a button that says "Print", that you press after hitting the $ key......   ;D
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

arkieboy

Quote from: chrish on October 11, 2021, 09:34:01 PM
make money off music. How is that done exactly? Lol


:-D


I did run for a year or two in an originals band where music paid for rehearsal, recording, crew and tour exes.  Of course I relied on the gracious support of my better half to roof and feed me, although I did have what would now be called a 'gig economy' job too.


That said, our business is founded on dreams, and people do somehow make a living.  And I'm not going to be that Decca executive who turned down the Beatles.
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

fokof

It's OK to sell patches but not on a "user Supported, Community Driven , Volunteer Managed" site.

Like selling booze on an AA meeting......
;)

Antonuzzo

Let's recap.

The OP didn't post in the Patch Exchange board – he posted in the Examples board and asked for input on the audio samples of his patches. He didn't indicate that they were available and when pushed, said that he might sell them. It's really as simple as that.

it would be a different matter if he'd come out of the traps trying to sell them from the get-go, but what we have here is a relatively new member who is being pilloried for not wanting to give away his work for free. Which is hardly 'supportive'.

Nobulusprime

Some of these patches sound really great, especially the viola/violin ones.

I know you have posted free patches on patch exchange before and I've tried a couple out which were really good

As for selling patches, give it a try, you might do better on YouTube etc.

I think this forum is great for getting feedback and honing what you do. My sense is that demand for patches on the SY1000 is quite low due to the fact there are not that many users of it out there.