GET VG-99 OR GR-55 OR ANOTHER SY-1000?

Started by BROCKSTAR, September 22, 2020, 07:47:30 AM

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admin

#125
Quote from: BROCKSTAR on March 06, 2021, 10:21:18 AM
Ok I'm reviving this post again lol.... So last night I bought a excellent shaped Roland GR-1 Expanded with tote bag, 13-pin cable, expansion card, damper pedal, manual on reverb for $144, but I woke up this morning and put in a refund request and still waiting on that....

I figured the best thing to do as soon as I get more funding is get a Roland GR-55 and US-20 pedal if I want better and updated PCM sounds and more right? Those who pair gr-55 and sy-1000, is it a good pair?

I mean gr-1 was fine when I had it years ago, but I'm sure those PCM sounds are completely outdated compared to gr-55's right? Of course gr-55 has more sounds as well. I've had several other roland things but never had a gr-55 yet.

its all subject to taste

I also acquired a gently used GR-1 + expansion board

This unit is very unique as it included a built in MIDI Recorder/Sequencer, Sound Canvas GM Synth and also works a MIDI Tone module ( no GK13 required - impossible with GR-55)

The attraction of GR-55 is its universal approach for Guitar or Bass and (thanks to Guntown) GR-55 enjoys the largest user base of any Roland/Boss GK13 processor and why a ten year old product remains in production     

Yoshi owes  Colin Wilcox (Gumtown) !

For me I still enjoy the VG-8, VG-88, VG-99 , VB-99  - as they respond to all my playing techniques with no latency and none of these glitch for me.

chrish

Quote from: admin on March 06, 2021, 10:30:53 AM
its all subject to taste

I also acquired a gently used GR-1 + expansion board

This unit is very unique as it included a built in MIDI Recorder/Sequencer, Sound Canvas GM Synth and also works a MIDI Tone module ( no GK13 required - impossible with GR-55)

The attraction of GR-55 is its universal approach for Guitar or Bass and (thanks to Guntown) GR-55 enjoys the largest user base of any Roland/Boss GK13 processor and why a ten year old product remains in production     

Yoshi owes  Colin Wilcox (Gumtown) !

For me I still enjoy the VG-8, VG-88, VG-99 , VB-99  - as they respond to all my playing techniques with no latency and none of these glitch for me.
SY1000 responds well and is a pad machine as well as a lead synth. It also has a decent normal channel and fx and some good guitar models like nylon. The synth bass fx1-3 is very good. It's a true analog subtractive modeled Guitarsynth.

For steel acoustic, real bass, vioguitar and pitch shifter, I still prefer the VG8 s1. Never liked the fx so I don't use them.

A band mate had a GR1 and used it with a hex RMC  piezo pick up and pre-op system on cut away Takamine acoustic Guitar.

He used it to get that Al Di Meola pipe sound on double guitar melody So 3  voices playing the same line. It tracked very well with that setup, playing near the 12 fret plus or minus on the neck.

But trying to add a low note bass line its was slow but not bad pitch tracking. It could not do what the VG8 did playing those same bass lines.


viktorverh


arkieboy

#128

(what are you like!  ;D )


I know you're going to take not a blind bit of notice.  But ...


Hexaphonic guitar is just so ripe for ambient, I don't think you can get away with just the SY300 and synths.  You must have seen the stuff people have been doing with Hex guitar and Eurorack?  Maybe given your track record you shouldn't go there  ;)

Given that hex and ambient are made for each other, and you'll immediately have sounds other keyboard based ambient people can't access, since none of the VG/SY products exactly supersede each other and many can be picked up for a song, then there is a case to be made for having one of each AND HANGING ON TO THEM.  I have owned the VG88Mk2, VG99 and the SY1000 and there are sounds in each I can't get from the others and they're all capable of doing really interesting, unusual ambient things. 


Of all of them I think the SY1K is probably the one you might need least in this respect, simply because it is HiFi - the dynamic synth can easily convince you its a regular analogue synthesiser and as such you could just use a regular analogue synth.  You seem to be perfectly happy triggering your synths via midi, and you probably feel you have the whole dynamic synth lead thing covered with SY300, and as already has been said, the COSM models are a bit of a 'greatest hits' from previous units. 


TLDR if you had to have one its the VG99 - if you don't already have one, buy one and DONT SELL IT.  If you're not digging it, YOUR NOT DIGGING DEEP ENOUGH.  Don't take my word for it, listen to ASB.

---

OTOH I think the SY1000 is the greatest thing since sliced bread for precisely the same reasons - horses for courses eh?

---

For the GR line I think you could be more selective, and they can be a lot more expensive so you should.  The GR500 is unique - nothing like it before and since, but I think it might need some work to fit into your music.  The GR300 - I think the simulations in the VG units are perfectly adequate, but you might like the UI for the performance features and they look sexy AF.  The GR700 and GR50 I think you can do fine with the JX3P and D5 emulations in the Roland Cloud if you're happy tweaking your midi, and you might find that if you used (coughs) a triple play to trigger the plugins you get better overall playability. 


From the GR50 to the GR33 they were basically Sound Canvas units and as such are inherently imitative, noisy in precisely the wrong way and just plain lack lustre.  Listen to YouTube of their presets and buy only if a preset sounds interesting.  I tried these and didn't buy, despite having spent a fortune on the GR700/GM70/GR50 previously.


For the 55/33 I think its an either/or.  The GR33 is basically a JV1010 with a grab bag of waveforms from other cards and I think if you're a programmer you might find lots to like here.  OTOH if you are looking for presets and importing patches then the GR55 will be more your cup of tea.  I would have one of them basically for any kind of 'synth lead' where you need expressivity and just a tad more connection to the sound than you get when connecting via MIDI.  I don't think you need both.


So.  Arkieboy says VG99, GR300, GR33, SY300 are essential.  Then backfill with the VG8 and if vintage works for you, maybe a GR500 if you can find one.
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

aliensporebomb

#129
If you like Ambient music the VG will do it in spades.  I'm still learning the SY-1000 but it's got some good stuff happening too.

3 examples VG-99:

https://soundcloud.com/aliensporebomb/after-sleeping
VG-99 through a looper - the high strings were the string part of my LuxeAcoustic patch (I think that was on B), the occasional acoustic strums are the (A) part of the patch.  The super high arco strings were played really high up on the fretboard and I'd occasionally add extra notes to fatten the harmony into the loop.   That was a live recording done at the end of a sci-fi convention to my Boss RC-300 looper.

https://soundcloud.com/aliensporebomb/248-nightfall-edit
VG-99 - all internal sounds live except used guitar to midi to trigger the acoustic piano sample.   That was a cue for a film score I was doing for a producer and ended up going unused in the production so I kept it for myself.    The "electric piano" is detuned chorused classical guitar.  The soft strings were the same technique as the Mellostrings patch but  with more filter cutoff so it's not so overt and softer overall if I remember right.   The "bass" is the low E string of the classical guitar patch.

https://soundcloud.com/aliensporebomb/mondoshawan-visit
VG-99 plus added Strymon Big Sky for a giant reverberation to the sound.   The patch uses the slicer to create a slowly percolating rhythm and I use a lot of the polyphonic pitch transposer which the reverb seizes and spatters all over the stereo field for this effect. 

Okay - what about regular guitar stuff?   You can do some nice stuff with the VG-99 but the SY-1000 is obviously a newer technology and has more realism for "guitar through amp" style sounds but if you already have something like a Helix or a Headrush or an AxeFX this might not serve you as well.  Ambient stuff - yes although some aspects of the SY aren't as "evolved" as the VG due to the way sounds are created and routed.

My two (or four) cents....

Notice too that none of the factory patches or the manual will tell you anything about how to make patches like these - you'll have to go to the vg-99 section here and download.
Lots of this was done by trial and error research.   If I ever get to meet the designers of the VG-99 someday I'd like to show them my findings.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

RichPell

Im selling my mint VG-99 btw.. message me if interested . thanks

midnight191

Is there a thread for how the SY-1000 drives external midi modules?  I have a Montage keyboard and if I can trigger sounds of it, that would be fabulous.

New owner of SY-1000 here, just set it up last night, traded GR55 in for it.  Wow acoustic guitar very good, 12 strings also, after 1.08 update, NO WARBLES on anything so far.

stub

Congrats on the new SY-1000! It's a great rig! So versatile!! Also, welcome!

You can trigger sounds of an external module via MIDI, the setup isn't too tricky (but I can't advise right now). Just be aware that the latency will be noticeable, and possibly problematic.

I don't know what the experts recommend for pitch-to-MIDI these days.

admin

#133
On SY-1000 or GP-10 Guitar to MIDI- Employ the Guitar to MIDI parameter settings from prior Roland/Boss units for best tracking

See Downloads area for GR-55
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=31

DreamTheory

I just want to say that the GR-55 model of the GR-300 always made me uncomfortable- it was too jumpy, scratchy, hot, and seemed to exaggerate every mistake. I found myself not using it much, which was disappointing. The SY-1000 version of the GR-300 is smooth and evokes my best playing instantly. It fades out just right. Delivers all the stuff you want in the squelch department without the freaking out at every touch. I realize I'm like 3 years late to this party, but just thought that info may help someone trying to decide.
electric: Epiphone Dot semihollow body, acoustic: mahogany jumbo, recording: Cubase Artist 11 or Tascam DP008

admin

Just to comment - the GR-55 has several GR-300 emulations- the guitar to PCM versions which may be prone to tracking errors , or the COSM Vguitar GR-300 version which tracks superior to the PCM versions

plexified

Dr. Wayne Jones Has a few cloning videos that nail it on the GR-55, I love it myself and it has alot of versatility. But then again, I may not be as picky as others and just get down to the Jam.

jassy

The GR300 from the GR55 is very good, I mix it with some pcm synth to get a really fat sound. The agility is not the best (in the S1000 it is more natural) but the GR55 is very good too.

BROCKSTAR

Haha so I just got another SY-1000 (this makes me having it 4 times I think now since launch lol). With all this talk of the new GM-800 which I also have coming along with the gk-5 pickup and converter box and 2 new cables, I started drooling for the sy-1000 again to pair with it so I did some trading with my local store and got a brand new sy-1000 today. However I can only play with it in normal input mode for now as I have no gk-2 or gk-3 anymore. Hopefully the GM-800 and new pickup and stuff comes soon!

Nobulusprime

I love your quest for gear Brock! The SY1000 is killer. It's a great combo with the GM-800 if the GM800 meets its promise.