Bass Mode OSC thread

Started by fokof, July 30, 2020, 08:57:20 AM

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fokof

Hey group

Found interesting stuff , could be useful to gtr brotherhood too.

I was working on a way to get better tracking for OSC synth with bass by applying filters , compression , etc on the recorded tracks before it gets back to the SY , just to see how to get better/cleaner tracking.

Found out interesting stuff .....

Here's 2 pics:
I played D on the lowB string ,F-G-A on the E string , C-D on the A string etc. on a 6 string bass

You can hear on the first audio sample that the second note , the F ,  is falsely tracked as a C

So I tried different stuff with that track to see how tracking could be "bettered"

On the second pic , you see that I muted just the attack of the F , and you can hear on the 2nd sample that it's been now tracked correctly.

fokof

I also found that if I lower the playback to -10 , it helps (For my playing)

Mega compression and noise gate helps too.
(of course)



So , I made GK setups with lower level for OSC patches only , Immensely annoying , but it helps.

fokof

#2
After update to the 1.06 Firmware , I can say that the tracking has improved immensely on all synth , specially on the OSC synth.
We still have to play super cleanly ,and  have a very good setup but it's a lot better.

But the latency is a bit slower than with firmware 1.05.

It used to be 95ms on a low D , now is 145ms with the 1.06 firmware.
Tracking is better though.

:(


Bass 1/4 > preamp > mono input CPU
SY1k ins 1 OSC Synth  > stereo CPU input

fokof

#3
I updated to 1.07 and latency is still the same on the OSC synth : 146ms for a low D on the B string , still un-playable.
A lot better an octave higher : 40ms

I've recorded my bass as Re-amp , recorded different patch while at 1.06 and rerecorded the same after 1.07 to do a null test to see if the sound was different and it is.
Not sure quite yet if better , but different on dynamic synth and OSC synth

Here's a screen capture , of the same patch, a dynamic synth.   ( P01-1 )
Latency is the same on 1.06 and 1.07 ( or very close) but the waveform are different.

fokof

Here's a screen shot of the OSC synth , almost the same latency (123 sample @ 48k )but not the same waveform of the same patch


fokof

#5
Just updated to 1.08
Latency has been reduced a lot !!!!!

I have 20ms on the low D  :-*
Almost playable "Live" !
On par with the VB99

Tracking has been improved too , but strangely , I have the same warble only on GR synth.
( the open A of a specific bass )

PS : Haven't check other functions or instrument yet , I went for the troublesome ones right away

Bluesbird

#6
Quote from: fokof on October 15, 2022, 03:06:06 PMI have 20ms on the low D  :-*


You sure about that? The D on bass would be the pitch of the open D string on bass, right? I get 55 ms on the low E string of the guitar, which would be a whole step higher in pitch than the D string on bass. If you are talking about a D below the open D string played on a B string of a five-string bass, there is no way you are getting anywhere in the ballpark of 20 ms. Maybe you meant 120 ms?  There is no improvement in latency or reliability of the osc or pitch to midi that I can detect. 
Squier Contemporary Starcaster with GK Kit, Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster Deluxe with external GK-3, Roland GI-20, Boss SY-1000 Guitar Synthesizer

gumtown

Great to hear, I might start looking at tweaking my SY-1000 again.
Free "GR-55 FloorBoard" editor software from https://sourceforge.net/projects/grfloorboard/

stub

Quote from: Bluesbird on October 15, 2022, 03:30:01 PMYou sure about that? ... there is no way you are getting anywhere in the ballpark of 20 ms.

It may be possible that with bass mode, certain optimizations that focus the range of tracking to low notes-- but 20 ms is quite impressive if true.

fokof

I'll double check but it is 30ms on the VB99 , a 13 year old unit.


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1787.0
Answer #22

fokof

#10
Quote from: Bluesbird on October 15, 2022, 03:30:01 PMYou sure about that? 
Yep , confirmed.
20ms on the open LowB string
16ms on the low D (3rd fret , Low B string)
6ms on the E , 4th fret Hi C string

Spectacularly better than when I bought it (FW 1.04 )
OSC latency still audible , has to be mixed with another source for a Playable sound but way better.

Now a bit better than the VB99
I'll try PTM later to see if it got better too.....

LowB captured
Mono track : 1/4 to preamp to soundcard to CPU
Stereo track : OSC to soundcard to CPU

EDIT: Error , read further

You cannot view this attachment.

Bluesbird

#11
I can't discern anything from your screen capture. What is the scale, i.e., how many ms in each division? Could you upload the patch you used for the OSC synth? 
Squier Contemporary Starcaster with GK Kit, Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster Deluxe with external GK-3, Roland GI-20, Boss SY-1000 Guitar Synthesizer

fokof

Humungus P44-2 in Bass mode
Delay and reverb By passed

fokof

#13
Oups .........  :-[


Its 200ms and not 20ms , miscalculation from my part ....
Forgot one zero when dividing from 48khz....
( 8644 samples in 48k )


Sorry !!!!!

So no change on that front , bur better tracking though....
I think I'll go grab a beer now 




fokof

I was listening with my eyes and lots of hope  ::)

Bluesbird

Quote from: fokof on October 16, 2022, 12:53:44 PMI was listening with my eyes and lots of hope  ::)

The Placebo Effect is powerful.
Squier Contemporary Starcaster with GK Kit, Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster Deluxe with external GK-3, Roland GI-20, Boss SY-1000 Guitar Synthesizer

Bluesbird

Quote from: fokof on October 16, 2022, 06:15:28 AMI'll double check but it is 30ms on the VB99 , a 13 year old unit.


https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1787.0
Answer #22

Am I correct in thinking that the OSC synth in the VB-99 operates in a different way than the OSC synth in the GP-10, and SY-1000? Though they share the same name, they share little else. One is COSM and the other relies on a pitch detection algorithm, as is used in translating pitches to midi notes. To me, the comparison is meaningless.
Squier Contemporary Starcaster with GK Kit, Squier Classic Vibe Telecaster Deluxe with external GK-3, Roland GI-20, Boss SY-1000 Guitar Synthesizer

admin

#17
Quote from: Bluesbird on October 17, 2022, 12:35:39 PMAm I correct in thinking that the OSC synth in the VB-99 operates in a different way than the OSC synth in the GP-10, and SY-1000?
Correct - very different

the VB-99 is superior - lower latency vs SY-1000 OSC Synth

fokof

Quote from: Bluesbird on October 17, 2022, 12:35:39 PMAm I correct in thinking that the OSC synth in the VB-99 operates in a different way than the OSC synth in the GP-10, and SY-1000? Though they share the same name, they share little else. One is COSM and the other relies on a pitch detection algorithm, as is used in translating pitches to midi notes. To me, the comparison is meaningless.
Yes they are different but I think they both use pitch detection "before" generating the sound.
Haven't check PTM's Sy1000 with 1.08 , but it was VERY superior with the VB99 , also "pitch detection" first.