Just got my Nexus v2 and Nu v2 pickup

Started by GuitarBuilder, October 31, 2018, 04:25:09 PM

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thefsb

Quote from: scratch17 on October 14, 2020, 04:16:55 AM
Why not use the Nu2 Multi 6 with the Nexus 2 DAW kit?

I suggest you read this document describing the Nexus GK breakout box. It contains all sorts of info on in guitar wiring, use cases and more.
I did read that and it has lots of good information.

Why not go the Nexus 2 DAW kit route? Fair question.

The Nu Multi 6 is appealing because 1) its cost is competitive with other options such as a GK-KIT and GraphTech Ghost. 2) It might allow me to use a guitar that's incompatible with the other options.

The Nexus 2 is a very interesting design but

Cost: A Nu Multi 6 plus Synth-Linx connector is a bit over $200. Add the Nexus and all the rest and it will be close to $700. The former is a number I feel I can experiment with, the latter is nearly the price of a used RRS or Godin xtSA.

Lots of parts. I like the (look of the) Lemo cable better than the GK cable but with Nexus I need both. Plus a MIDI cable and the Nexus box, wall wart and power cables.

The additional CVs are appealing but not decisive. Since I got the SY-1000 I haven't used GK knobs or switches at all.

I've no use for the other features the Nexus provides. I'm not a recording musician. I have a 2-channel audio interface. I use the DAW only as a composition tool to make mock-ups. I'm not into making music with computers.

thefsb

#26
Quote from: GuitarBuilder on October 14, 2020, 05:03:56 AM
Pretty much what I told him in a PM.  I also don't recommend phases - do it once correctly!
GuitarBuilder strongly advised against wiring Nu pickups directly to the synth.

That possibility was one of the main attractions of Nu relative to other options for a 13-pin guitar. I posted a reply to Scratch17 above that should explains why.

The other reason was apparent simplicity of the mod. GuitarBuilder advised against placing the Nu side-by-side with a single coil in a bridge humbucker slot. For use with SY-1000 I should put it adjacent to the bridge. That means the work is not going to be like changing pickups and adding a switch and connector. So I don't get to put it in a guitar of my choice.

And finally there's the limits of my skills. I don't feel up to the task of building a guitar around a pickup. As I mentioned before, I don't have a workshop, am not remotely a luthier. I can manage soldering, adding pots and switches, etc. Guitar parts plus the Nu and Nexus gear would add up to an expensive first project in guitar building.

So given my needs, preferences and constrains, it appears that the reasons I imagined to choose Nu over other options aren't real.

Thanks for everyone's time checking my thoughts and to Scratch17 and GuitarBuilder for taking the trouble to reply. I learned important things. I appreciate it.

arkieboy

Quote from: thefsb on October 14, 2020, 06:15:58 AM
GuitarBuilder strongly advised against wiring Nu pickups directly to the synth.

That possibility was one of the main attractions of Nu relative to other options for a 13-pin guitar. I posted a reply to Scratch17 above that should explains why.

The other reason was apparent simplicity of the mod. GuitarBuilder advised against placing the Nu side-by-side with a single coil in a bridge humbucker slot. For use with SY-1000 I should put it adjacent to the bridge. That means the work is not going to be like changing pickups and adding a switch and connector. So I don't get to put it in a guitar of my choice.

And finally there's the limits of my skills. I don't feel up to the task of building a guitar around a pickup. As I mentioned before, I don't have a workshop, am not remotely a luthier. I can manage soldering, adding pots and switches, etc. Guitar parts plus the Nu and Nexus gear would add up to an expensive first project in guitar building.

So given my needs, preferences and constrains, it appears that the reasons I imagined to choose Nu over other options aren't real.

Thanks for everyone's time checking my thoughts and to Scratch17 and GuitarBuilder for taking the trouble to reply. I learned important things. I appreciate it.


I was about to ask questions essentially amounting to the same thing.  I'm really interested in very minimal builds - the pickup, an attenuator and a 13 pin socket.  The idea that I could install a nu hex pickup in any guitar, house minimal circuitry in the control cavity and drill a hole in the cavity cover for a synthlink 13 pin socket (for an angled GK lead) is incredibly attractive. I haven't used the external controls on a GK controller since I sold my GR700/G707 in the early 90s - I do everything with my feet.

If its not possible, then that's fine.
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: arkieboy on October 14, 2020, 06:50:56 AM

I was about to ask questions essentially amounting to the same thing.  I'm really interested in very minimal builds - the pickup, an attenuator and a 13 pin socket.  The idea that I could install a nu hex pickup in any guitar, house minimal circuitry in the control cavity and drill a hole in the cavity cover for a synthlink 13 pin socket (for an angled GK lead) is incredibly attractive. I haven't used the external controls on a GK controller since I sold my GR700/G707 in the early 90s - I do everything with my feet.

If its not possible, then that's fine.

It's certainly possible to do what you describe.  It's just going to be sub-optimal.
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

arkieboy

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on October 14, 2020, 06:57:03 AM
It's certainly possible to do what you describe.  It's just going to be sub-optimal.


In what regard? 


If there is no audible difference once I've plugged it into my SY1000 then frankly my dear, I don't give a damn ...


;-)
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

scratch17

#30
I understand the cost issues. I also understand the limited use case. I'd suggest that you stick with a GK3 pickup in your case.

Here is my use case. It actually uses a Nu2 Multi, a Nexus GK DAW kit and an RMC Fanout Box to drive my VG-99, do hex processing in my DAW and down the road, guitar to MIDI conversion using a new system coming from Sonicsmith.

As you know, the SY-1000 is a closed system for synth sounds. You have the built-in sounds it has. But you should not regard the SY-1000's built-in guitar to MIDI conversion to expand it's sound palette. It's quality of conversion is just unacceptable IMHO.

I think of an open system as one that can competently trigger MIDI quickly and (mostly) glitch free with very low latency across the fretboard.

I say 'mostly glitch free' when referring to studio use. I own a Fishman Triple Play. I find it to be at least acceptable with respect to its quality of conversion. I personally would not trust it in a live situation however.

But let's say you use an FTP to get to an open system, regardless of whether it is used live or in studio. Unless you buy a Godin Montreal FTP, you won't be able to integrate an FTP and a GK3 on the same guitar without a lot of hacking.

While that is also true for the Cycfi Nu2, there is a new guitar to MIDI system coming from Sonicsmith that will likely be super fast and virtually glitch free. And it should work perfectly when driven by a Nu2 Multi through a Nexus GK box.

I doubt that the Sonicsmith system will cost less than $2500; it might cost more than $3000 if there is VAT required. So it is likely way out of the price range for most guitarists.

That's a whole lot of money for me, too. But if it works as advertised, I believe it will quickly pay for itself in my studio. So I am willing to make that high an investment.

Let me make this clear. You could use a number of hex pickups like a GK or Nu2 Multi to drive the Sonicsmith system. There are other pickups available as well. But no matter which pickup you use, you will need a way to split the hex pickup's 6 analog audio streams into individual outputs. The bottom line is that to drive the Sonicsmith system you will need a hex pickup with a breakout box or breakout cable.

You could do so with a GK3 and a GK breakout box like the RMC Fanout Box. I own an RMC Fanout myself and use it with my Brian Moore i213 and my VG-99. The Fanout can drive two GK devices. It also has both GK to hex analog and hex analog to GK I/O. There is a mix setting to group strings any way you want to create a stereo output. There are even S1/S2 and synth volume jacks so you can use a momentary switch and a pedal to control the GK synth volume with your feet.

Unfortunately, RMC discontinued the Fanout some years ago. They are really hard to find now. But there are alternatives. GuitarBuilder sells a modular style breakout box for GK systems, for example.

I am keeping mine, even though I am adding a Nu2 to my Hamer Duotone and buying a Nexus GK DAW kit. I will use a short GK cable from the Nexus GK box to connect the Fanout. My VG-99 will connect to one of the Fanout's GK outputs.

Why 2 breakout boxes?

1. The Fanout can send a dry signal to the VG-99 from my DAW. The Nexus GK has no GK input. With the Fanout, I can replace or layer a VG-99 sound the same way you can do re-amping by sending a dry track to another guitar amp.

2. With the Fanout, I get S1/S2 switch and synth volume control via footswitch. That leaves more available CV controls on the Nexus GK.

3. By daisy chaining the two breakout boxes, I will have two mirrored analog hex outputs. The Nexus GK's analog outputs will go to the Sonicsmith system for MIDI conversion. The Fanout's hex analog outputs will go directly to my DAW through my Apollo audio interface.

4. With the Fanout, I don't need a mixer to output a mono or stereo mix from the Nu2. I might send a stereo output to a pair of guitar amps or I might send a mono output to my Kemper.

Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

thefsb

Quote from: scratch17 on October 14, 2020, 02:21:04 PM
But you should not regard the SY-1000's built-in guitar to MIDI conversion to expand it's sound palette. It's quality of conversion is just unacceptable IMHO.

I haven't the slightest interest in MIDI, except perhaps as necessary for parameter control or sync. I've no experience using MIDI and would prefer not to need to learn.

Quote from: scratch17 on October 14, 2020, 02:21:04 PM
I think of an open system as one that can competently trigger MIDI quickly and (mostly) glitch free with very low latency across the fretboard.

I say 'mostly glitch free' when referring to studio use. I own a Fishman Triple Play. I find it to be at least acceptable with respect to its quality of conversion. I personally would not trust it in a live situation however.

But let's say you use an FTP to get to an open system, regardless of whether it is used live or in studio. Unless you buy a Godin Montreal FTP, you won't be able to integrate an FTP and a GK3 on the same guitar without a lot of hacking.

While that is also true for the Cycfi Nu2, there is a new guitar to MIDI system coming from Sonicsmith that will likely be super fast and virtually glitch free. And it should work perfectly when driven by a Nu2 Multi through a Nexus GK box.

I doubt that the Sonicsmith system will cost less than $2500; it might cost more than $3000 if there is VAT required. So it is likely way out of the price range for most guitarists.

That's a whole lot of money for me, too. But if it works as advertised, I believe it will quickly pay for itself in my studio. So I am willing to make that high an investment.

Let me make this clear. You could use a number of hex pickups like a GK or Nu2 Multi to drive the Sonicsmith system. There are other pickups available as well. But no matter which pickup you use, you will need a way to split the hex pickup's 6 analog audio streams into individual outputs. The bottom line is that to drive the Sonicsmith system you will need a hex pickup with a breakout box or breakout cable.

You could do so with a GK3 and a GK breakout box like the RMC Fanout Box. I own an RMC Fanout myself and use it with my Brian Moore i213 and my VG-99. The Fanout can drive two GK devices. It also has both GK to hex analog and hex analog to GK I/O. There is a mix setting to group strings any way you want to create a stereo output. There are even S1/S2 and synth volume jacks so you can use a momentary switch and a pedal to control the GK synth volume with your feet.

Unfortunately, RMC discontinued the Fanout some years ago. They are really hard to find now. But there are alternatives. GuitarBuilder sells a modular style breakout box for GK systems, for example.

I am keeping mine, even though I am adding a Nu2 to my Hamer Duotone and buying a Nexus GK DAW kit. I will use a short GK cable from the Nexus GK box to connect the Fanout. My VG-99 will connect to one of the Fanout's GK outputs.

Why 2 breakout boxes?

1. The Fanout can send a dry signal to the VG-99 from my DAW. The Nexus GK has no GK input. With the Fanout, I can replace or layer a VG-99 sound the same way you can do re-amping by sending a dry track to another guitar amp.

2. With the Fanout, I get S1/S2 switch and synth volume control via footswitch. That leaves more available CV controls on the Nexus GK.

3. By daisy chaining the two breakout boxes, I will have two mirrored analog hex outputs. The Nexus GK's analog outputs will go to the Sonicsmith system for MIDI conversion. The Fanout's hex analog outputs will go directly to my DAW through my Apollo audio interface.

4. With the Fanout, I don't need a mixer to output a mono or stereo mix from the Nu2. I might send a stereo output to a pair of guitar amps or I might send a mono output to my Kemper.
I understood very little of that. I'm sure it make sense. I think probably you and I are seeking in different directions (I don't know for sure because I don't understand what you're saying).

I could try to express in words what appeals to me about the Boss SY synths and why these are the first since the GR-300 that do and how I want very much to not sound like a keyboard but I find it hard to put into words (or even understand) these aesthetic preferences and I don't think there's a lot to gain doing so.

I agree that I'll probably be adequately served by a GK.

admin

If you are installing only the Nexus v2 pickups straight to 13 pin
Don't forget the GK VOL voltage signal-must supply +5VDC on GK-13 pin #8 = max Volume on connected GK Processor

jimmyj

[quoteSonicsmith system will cost less than $2500][/quote]
Where are you finding out about a new version of a Sonicsmith converter ? I've looked and can't find much. I'm also interested in a Nexus pickup straight to 13 pin (with internal board) . I have no need for a breakout box that I can think of unless I can be convinced by Sonicsmith . I also don't care for the GK-3. I have several and have tried them on most of my guitars and they seem to be lacking something. Does the Nexus have its own sound (like a normal guitar pickup) or is it just a hex pickup like the GK pickups that needs its own board and specialized cable to work ? I need something for a Gibson SG knock-off guitar with a Tune-O-Matic bridge.

gumbo

Quote from: jimmyj on October 14, 2020, 06:13:10 PM
[quoteSonicsmith system will cost less than $2500]
Where are you finding out about a new version of a Sonicsmith converter ? I've looked and can't find much. I'm also interested in a Nexus pickup straight to 13 pin (with internal board) . I have no need for a breakout box that I can think of unless I can be convinced by Sonicsmith . I also don't care for the GK-3. I have several and have tried them on most of my guitars and they seem to be lacking something. Does the Nexus have its own sound (like a normal guitar pickup) or is it just a hex pickup like the GK pickups that needs its own board and specialized cable to work ? I need something for a Gibson SG knock-off guitar with a Tune-O-Matic bridge.

PM GuitarBuilder about your questions....he has experience in this area.

HTH

Peter
Read slower!!!   ....I'm typing as fast as I can...

vanceg

Quote from: GuitarBuilder on October 14, 2020, 06:57:03 AM
It's certainly possible to do what you describe.  It's just going to be sub-optimal.

I had two guitars wired with the Nu pickup, running into the internal breakout board, and then to a 13pin connector on the guitar itself.  I really just connected the individual string singal cables, the ground, and then the power from the 13 pin to the corrisponding spot on the breakout board.  This esstenailly gave me the NU pickup, powered at 7v, with individual string outputs on the 13pin.  I did not wire up any of the GK type controls.  I was just trying to keep things SUPER simple and see how well this setup worked.  I loved it.  I felt like the sound of the VG-99, espeically the modeling, was signficantly imporved using the Nu rather than the GK. 
I have since just switched over to using the Lemo connector and Nexus on all three of my guitars that have NU pickups.  This is mainly because I wanted to start using more onboard controllers and I really love the LEMO connector... it's just an entirely different world than the 13 pin. 

In the brief time that I compared the Nu wired direclty to the 13 pin with Nu through the Nexus, I definately think the Nexus sounds a bit better.  The noise floor is lower, for sure using the Nexus and the NU pickup output is signficantly hotter with the Nexus.  Note, though,  that the noise floor and frequency response of the NU pickups in ANY wiring configuration is signficantly better than any of my GK equpped rigs. 

Personally I'm pretty well sold on the NU.  But that's no secret in this list.  I'd personally use them over the GK in most any situation.  That said - I have a lot of love and respect for the GK-3.  It actually does what it's supposed to do really well. It's a good baseline.

chrish

Quote from: jimmyj on October 14, 2020, 06:13:10 PM
[quoteSonicsmith system will cost less than $2500]
Where are you finding out about a new version of a Sonicsmith converter ? I've looked and can't find much.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21122.msg213176#msg213176

sonicsmith.com/products/convertor-e1/

https://sonicsmith.com/products/midvertor-e1/

scratch17

#37
@jimmyj asked:

QuoteDoes the Nexus have its own sound (like a normal guitar pickup) or is it just a hex pickup like the GK pickups that needs its own board and specialized cable to work ?

The Nu2 is a full range high output low impedance active magnetic pickup. Yes it has what in my opinion is an excellent sound quality. It can be used on any instrument with steel strings. That includes acoustic and solid body electric guitars, bases, violins, cellos, even Ukuleles.

The Nu2 was designed as a pickup for regular use, albeit as a multichannel one with a pole piece dedicated to each string. Nu2 was not designed to drive a MIDI synth or a GK device like the Roland SY-1000. It just so happens that it can do that task extremely well. See vanceg's post above.

Does the Nu2 require a specialized cable to operate? Yes. Go to the website and see it for yourself. It has a slightly larger diameter than a standard TS 1/4 inch cable. However, it is noticeably thinner than a GK cable.

Can you simply connect the pins from the Lemo cable to a GK connector to go to a GK device? According to GuitarBuilder (who has far more knowledge of electronics than I) it is possible, but the result will be "sub-optimal". Same with vanceg who in the above post noted that he's done it. But he likes the sound of the Nexus box better than a direct connection. Also, you should note the caveat from Elantric (Steve, aka Admin) about pin #8.

All I can say is that from my experience, easy when you DIY doesn't necessarily make for good results. That's why I think if you want easy, get a Nexus GK kit. It's easy because you are paying someone who knows how it works to do it for you.

I said:

QuoteI doubt that the Sonicsmith system will cost less than $2500; it might cost more than $3000 if there is VAT required.

You must have misunderstood me. I suspect that the Sonicsmith guitar to MIDI system will cost around $3000 when you include shipping and Value Added Tax. That does not include a hex pickup and breakout box which will be required to take full advantage of polyphonic sound sources such as synths and samplers.
Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

jimmyj

I'm still confused about this. Where is the possibility of a $2500 price for a Sonicsmith converter ? The MidiVertor shows a price of $320 and is supposed to ship in March.  I added it to cart and with shipping and vat it was over $600. If a Midivertor is going to somehow be around $2500 then with shipping and vat it's going to be around $3000 to get it here which is way over my head for just home use that is why I'm leaning more towards just the 13 pin setup.  I'm not discounting the Nexus box just yet but unless there is a big difference in sound then it's not worth it since I don't need the 6 different channels. I'm glad to hear that the pickup will work like a regular pickup. I can do any of the conversions so I'm not worried about that part. Right now I'm down to deciding if I want the Nu pickup and possibly the Nexus box or a Graphtech ghost system, either the Tune-0-Matic ghost or alter the ghost Floyd Rose saddles to fit the Floyd Rose FRX. I contacted Graphtech and they said their ghost saddles were a little wider than the ones on the FRX so I would have to grind them down. I converted my Jackson PC-1 to the Graphtech system by adding a LB-63 and 13 pin system and it sounds by far better than any other system I have with my VG-99 and Sy-1000. I know the consensus here is not good for the Graphtech but I am comparing it to my converted Strat with an internal GK-2 system, 2 Brian Moore guitars and my GK-3 guitars. The Graphtech blows them all out of the water by far.

kevorkian

Quote from: jimmyj on October 15, 2020, 04:38:02 AM
I'm still confused about this. Where is the possibility of a $2500 price for a Sonicsmith converter ? The MidiVertor shows a price of $320 and is supposed to ship in March.  I added it to cart and with shipping and vat it was over $600. If a Midivertor is going to somehow be around $2500 then with shipping and vat it's going to be around $3000 to get it here which is way over my head for just home use that is why I'm leaning more towards just the 13 pin setup.  I'm not discounting the Nexus box just yet but unless there is a big difference in sound then it's not worth it since I don't need the 6 different channels. I'm glad to hear that the pickup will work like a regular pickup. I can do any of the conversions so I'm not worried about that part. Right now I'm down to deciding if I want the Nu pickup and possibly the Nexus box or a Graphtech ghost system, either the Tune-0-Matic ghost or alter the ghost Floyd Rose saddles to fit the Floyd Rose FRX. I contacted Graphtech and they said their ghost saddles were a little wider than the ones on the FRX so I would have to grind them down. I converted my Jackson PC-1 to the Graphtech system by adding a LB-63 and 13 pin system and it sounds by far better than any other system I have with my VG-99 and Sy-1000. I know the consensus here is not good for the Graphtech but I am comparing it to my converted Strat with an internal GK-2 system, 2 Brian Moore guitars and my GK-3 guitars. The Graphtech blows them all out of the water by far.

I think that's the roughly price of 6  ConVertors + 1 MidiVertor

scratch17

@jimmyj, you need 6 E1 Converters and a Midivertor to do full polyphonic guitar to MIDI. Each E1 does one string of conversion. It is monophonic.

So even with the 15% discount, if VAT is required, the total will be around $3,000 with shipping.

Of course, you would need a Eurorack case and power supply that could hold and power the 7 modules. So figure about $200 to $300 for the case and PS.

Then add the cost of a hex pickup and breakout box or cable. You have to think that will cost you at least another $400.

As I said, the Sonicsmith system will not be inexpensive.

I think you should go with the Graphtech system. If the Sonicsmith system is better than the previous Sonicsmith Convertor+ audio to CV, then it will be worth the money for me. I doubt it will ever make sense for your use case.

Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio