Helix/VG99 Integration

Started by arkieboy, March 18, 2018, 08:35:36 AM

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Majiken

Thanks for the feedback so far! Sixeight, looking forward to your live impressions, as that is my primary focus- I can figure my way to make acoustics stand out well in a mix.  My takeaways so far:

- as when learning single-band compression, it is tricky at the start, and genius and madness are very close together. I think I'll release a lot of demons in my practice room before I get comfortable enough to use it live.

- last Friday I used my ATG/Electra to play acoustic and electric 6-strings, a baritone electric and bass. I can practice adjusting on my Midas, but I can't imagine one setting won't cover all those bases well.  So, the special sauce will likely need to be added per instrument preset when I get a device with that functionality.  The influence of IRs is yet to be explored, but as I assume the road will lead there sooner rather than later I'll be reading updates on this and similar threads with enhanced interest.

Thanks again  :)
Take what you need, put back a bit more, leave the place behind you better than it was before :-)

www.majiken.rocks

arkieboy

Quote from: admsustainiac on March 25, 2018, 12:08:49 PM
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/processing-acoustic-guitars


As ever SoS was bang on the money for me.  Piezo->IR (Taylor/Earthworks)->3 band Compressor (suggested frequencies from the article)->graphic EQ to further remove low end rumble and add air->parametric to surgically remove some ringing frequencies from the piezo, and I got a sound I'd be more than happy to gig.  Obviously muchos tweaking lies in the future - if I had to be hypercritical its a tad sterile and the strings sound like they don't quite merge into a gestalt - but it's worked really well.


Just need to add piezo saddles to my red Eggle and I'm sorted!
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

sixeight

My VG-99/Helix setup this morning:




aliensporebomb

Nice rig - so how do you have this set-up?  Are you controlling the VG-99 and processing it through the Helix or using both together somehow at the same time?
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

arkieboy

#29
My cabling isn't as neat yet ...  ::)


(there's a MacBook Pro running MainStage somewhere off to the left)
Main rig: Barden Hexacaster and Brian Moore i2.13 controllers
Boss SY1000/Boss GKC-AD/Boss GM-800/Laney LFR112

Other relevant gear: Line 6 Helix LT, Roland GR-33, Axon AX100 MkII
Oberheim Matrix 6R, Supernova IIR, EMu E5000, Apple Mainstage, Apple Logic, MOTU M4

sixeight

#30
Quote from: aliensporebomb on June 25, 2018, 05:41:55 AM
Nice rig - so how do you have this set-up?  Are you controlling the VG-99 and processing it through the Helix or using both together somehow at the same time?

I control the VG-99 from the Helix. Here are my connections:
Guitar GK-3 to VG-99.

VG-99 guitar out to Helix guitar in.
VG-99 spdif out to Helix spdif in.
Helix midi out to VG-99 midi in.

Helix 1/4 inch out to my Yamaha Stagepass monitors. (Can control the volume from the Helix)
Helix XLR out to FOH.

Now I have a number of options:
1) Process the acoustic guitar sound directly on the Helix
2) Process the acoustic sound first on the VG99 and then on the Helix.
3) Use up to two virtual guitars from the VG99, add effects from the VG99 and use the amp modeling and effects from the Helix
4) Use virtual guitars and amps from the VG99 and use cabs or impulse responses plus effects on the Helix.
5) Use virtual guitars amps and cabs from the VG99 and just effects on the Helix.
6) Any combination of the previous options. There are three mono paths between the VG99 and the Helix, guitar out, spdif left and spdif right. This is a very flexible setup.

The midi control from the Helix us very good. I  can select patches, control assigns, etc. The only issue is sending a program change with a cc message right after it. Thus may result in a stutter. Hopefully midi messages will be sent earlier on patch change of the Helix in the next firmware update.

vurnt99

 Would it be possible to use Helix Command Center as a virtual FC-300 to control the VG 99?

admin

#32
Quote from: vurnt99 on October 12, 2018, 04:38:25 PM
Would it be possible to use Helix Command Center as a virtual FC-300 to control the VG 99?

Should be able too  with Helix Floor / or Helix Rack w/ Helix Control
There may be a few folks here who may already have done that

https://line6.com/data/6/0a06438916b95787c4e99bebe/application/pdf/Helix%20Rack%20and%20Control%202.0%20Owners%20Manual%20-%20Rev%20C%20-%20English%20.pdf


LINE-6 Helix floor / Rack Command Center > control  VG-99 via MIDI

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=2975.0


( hope you are well Vurn!)

admin

#33

HecticArt

Most impressive!!!!!!
Very well done.

sixeight

Quote from: vurnt99 on October 12, 2018, 04:38:25 PM
Would it be possible to use Helix Command Center as a virtual FC-300 to control the VG 99?

You can use PC messages for patch change and cc messages for controlling assigns. With the 16 available assigns on the VG99 that gives a lot of options.

I have the VG99 digital out connected to digital in on the Helix with an spdif digital cable.

I should do a video one day of my setup....

sixeight

Here I proudly present you my VG-99/Helix setup. Enjoy!


admin

#37

vurnt99

Well now I know I want a  V-Control.

Smash

#39
I love love love the custom harmonised scale! Can ask exactly what are the settings? Works brilliantly with two guitars but I'm thinking of use with synth pad.

Also love the 3+3.

Inspiring stuff!!

sixeight

#40
Quote from: Smash on November 06, 2018, 10:16:39 PM
I love love love the custom harmonised scale! Can ask exactly what are the settings? Works brilliantly with two guitars but I'm thinking of use with synth pad.

Also love the 3+3.

Inspiring stuff!!

Thanks. Here are the settings for the harmony user scale. Key is set to E.
E:+7, F:+7, F#:+10, G:+9, Ab:+8, A:+7
Bb:+8, B:+7, C:+7, Db:+7, D:+7, Eb:+8

The harmony works for a wide range of chords. But when you play a Bb you are to far from the key of E and it will not sound good.

But you can change the key of the patch to F and then the Bb sounds great again.

I created the scale to be able to use it on this song in church and try to play the acoustic and electric part by myself:


sixeight

#41
I am often experimenting to get my guitar two sound as two guitars using harmonies and delays. Today I made an arpeggiator by delaying four individual strings on the VG-99 with different delay times. Here is the example:

https://soundcloud.com/cfeddema/harmonyarp

To create this I use two identical virtual guitars that both have two strings enabled (B and E for guitar A, D and G for guitar B). I also panned the two strings left-right on each path. Then I added the Dual L/R delay, with feedback and direct lvel set to zero. Then I was able to add different delay times to the four strings (eights, quarter, dotted quarter and half note). At the end everything is summed to mono so it sounds as one guitar.

The Helix has a path for the acoustic and one for the electric. I use the trainwreck amp for the electric and a custom IR for the acoustic.

So now the acoustic guitar plays chords and the electric guitar plays arpegiated chords on four strings. I love this stuff.

alexmcginness

Is that patch available? If you could post it that would be great
VG-88V2, GR-50, GR-55, 4 X VG-99s,2 X FC-300,  2 X GP-10 AXON AX 100 MKII, FISHMAN TRIPLE PLAY,MIDX-10, MIDX-20, AVID 11 RACK, BEHRINGER FCB 1010, LIVID GUITAR WING, ROLAND US-20, 3 X GUYATONE TO-2. MARSHALL BLUESBREAKER, SERBIAN ELIMINATOR AMP. GR-33.

Smash

Wow! That is genius!! It's really convincing.

Not often a patch leaves me a bit speechless but that one has!

Please post! (I know the acoustics will be missing) struggling to get my head round it!


admin

#44
FWIW
Check out Linz Hendersons rig
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11717.msg165531#msg165531
My bigger rig, which was my studio rack, was based around Ableton Live using S-Gear via my MOTU Ultralite and a USB to MIDI/SPDIF box for the Variax. I missed a lot of the features I was used to from the Roland systems I've used, so I then bought VG-99 number 4! However, I'd always had some issues with excess noise on the '99 and this one was no different. It also never quite lived up to the sounds I had in my head. I loved the dual paths and the MASSIVE sounds I could get with 2 x 12 string emulations, pitch shifted, open tuned (etc.) then split across different strings etc. I then (quite spontaneously) decided to buy a Helix Rack, and ended up with this setup:


After getting a bit fed up with the VG's form factor (and needing a bit of cash), I decided that I would be better off rack mounting my 2 GP-10s
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=11717.msg165531#msg165531
and selling the VG. The GP's models, although not quite as flexible as the 99's, seemed a little cleaner to me and I loved its USB MIDI out. Along with the Helix, it would be compact enough for small gigs, but also powerful enough for a more ambitious project. That's when I created the current version (the lower rack's redundant now - I just use it in the studio to raise the main rack up to a decent working height):


So, what are the benefits (to me)? Firstly, I'm able to carry it safely to any sized gig. The previous rack was a little awkward and it never quite felt solid enough. Most of my paid gigs are with my Blues band or various small Jazz bands. I wanted to have plenty of control, but didn't want to rely on any computer-based solutions for the simple gigs. The 2 GP-10s give me a nice level of control without having to rely on MIDI - not quite as much as the VG-99, but worth the trade-off in size. As well as the form-factor/size, there's a certain level of redundancy. I can go direct to the Helix with the Variax on battery power, use normal pickups, use either GP-10 with the GK, and I can bypass the Helix and go via the Mac Mini and S-Gear if there's an emergency. Of course, the ultimate goal is to use it all together, but it's nice to have options in case of emergencies.

I'm not using the Variax at the moment due to messing about with some mods and re-installing the Teensy (arduino) board and some switches. That means I'm relying entirely on the GP-10's modelling as I'm using my Patrick Eggle Berlin which only has the GK connected - no 'real' pickups hooked up just now. I've stuck with that for a couple of weeks now, because I'm getting far clearer, more 'stereotypical' Strat and Les Paul sounds out of the GP compared to the Variax. I didn't used to feel like that, but it's working nicely and a few people have noticed the extra clarity I'm getting, so I'm happy :-)



The 2 GP-10s are set to different patches according to the band I'm with. The left side one is currently the most used. I control the model with a 3-way toggle switch connected to GK S1 & S2, which gives me 4 separate sounds in one patch (via assigns), with no need for MIDI. It's set to change to:

Les Paul Bridge
Strat Neck
Acoustic
Nylon

The Helix controls the CTL 3 & 4 jack, which I use for either Open G, or Open D tunings.

The right side is currently set up without any CTL switching (just GK) and is usually set to a Bass patch for some extra depth to certain tunes. In the Jazz bands, I always play bass, then switch to an L4 sound to take a solo, then back to bass. Switching on the GP-10 was never a problem at all, but now I just set each GP to the appropriate patch and use the Helix returns to switch between them.

For my own material, I love to experiment with BIG sounds, so that's one reason for using the Variax along with 2 GP-10s. I can split strings and feeds signals into the Helix or Mac Mini separately, and create huge sounds but still have total control over it all. The main benefit over the VG-99, for me (aside from the real-estate), is that I've got 3 guitar models which can be switched instantly, either individually or together. That's where the Mac Mini comes in. It's used for Ableton Live, but also deals with patch changes and MIDI control/routing. I use Plogue Bidule for my MIDI patch routing. I know I could do a lot of this with a Raspberry Pi, but the Mac's there running Ableton, so it might as well be doing the MIDI stuff, too.

The other purpose of the Mac Mini is for processing all of these signals out-with or alongside the Helix. Here's the other benefit of 2 GP-10s; I can play riffs with or without extra parts, but capture any part I choose using Ableton. This helps me get round what I see as the biggest problem with live looping - the length of time it takes to build parts. I can play an intro with chords and secretly record a bassline, tapped off from a GP-10, then introduce that on the next time round as I play some lead. I'll need to work a bit on my technique and make a video of that, as it's a bit tricky to explain exactly what I mean.

The MOTU Ultralite AVB is an amazing tool in all of this too. It's rock-solid and can be used stand-alone. For the Blues gigs, I control my own sound, the keyboardist's, and all the vocals. There's room for the bass and a couple of drum mics, too, but we don't really need to do that. I use a tiny little WiFI router, made by 'Vonets', to hook up my iPhone to the MOTU and mix everything during the gig.

On larger gigs (and what I plan to do when I start gigging my own material), I can run the iphone via the Vonets WiFi and control the Mac Mini without a screen. That also lets me connect a MacBook Pro to the MOTU's ethernet port, and I can simultaneously run audio from the Mini via USB. It's meant I can run quite complex soft synths for MIDI guitar, despite the fact that my Mini and the MBP are both relatively outdated 2012 models. Even better is the fact that my iPad can hook up to the Helix and receive all the MIDI data I'm generating for some great apps like Moog's Model 15 and Sunrizer! I also run a lot of MIDI as backing using Ableton's clips, which I can modify in realtime using expression pedals. For example, I'll run MIDI drum loops with some randomisation which I can then influence via expression, allowing me to add a lot of dynamics without the backing sounding like it's simply being turned up and down in volume.

It probably sounds like total overkill to some people, but the point is, it's a compact, reliable system that can scale up and down to suit almost any purpose. All the sound-generation is done via guitar, whether it be audio or MIDI, and I can set everything up in 20 minutes and take up very little space.

I'm sure I've forgotten loads of details, but I'm glad I could share my project with you :-)

Feel free to ask questions and I'll do my best to get back to everyone.

I'd just like to thank everyone involved in VGuitar Forums. You're a hugely knowledgable bunch and I've used the site as a resource for many years. It's nice to know there are many like-minded musicians out there who aren't scared to push the boundaries of music production and performance beyond the traditional methods!

Cheers guys!


sixeight

Quote from: alexmcginness on November 08, 2018, 10:50:04 AM
Is that patch available? If you could post it that would be great

Quote from: Smash on November 08, 2018, 11:25:14 AM
Wow! That is genius!! It's really convincing.

Not often a patch leaves me a bit speechless but that one has!

Please post! (I know the acoustics will be missing) struggling to get my head round it!

You can find the patch for the VG-99 here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=24660

aliensporebomb

The cool thing about that patch is you could simulate up to three guitar players playing complementary parts depending on how you have it set up.  I'll definitely be playing with this.  Thanks for the upload.
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.

sixeight

#47
https://soundcloud.com/cfeddema/vg99-helix-pads

Added eight pads to different snapshots on my Helix, using pads of Aliensporebomb, Smash and some of my own. One GR-300 patch did not record right, so it had to be cut out. The waveform is very asymetrical and Cubase did not like that.

0:00 VG Strings
0:22 POD Crazy warm
0:54 POD Safe Journey
1:35 POD Valhalla
1:51 POD Ghostalism
2:18 Nylon Escape (Smash)
2:58 Ribbonpad

On the Helix I use the Multitap 6 delay, which has six repeats panned to different postitions in the stereo field. I also added Plateux and Searchlight reverbs to some of the patches. This makes the pads lusher, wider and brighter.

The acoustic sound is my Crafter TMVS into an IR, eq and some reverb.

Vaultnaemsae

Vaultnaemsae's SoundCloud:
https://soundcloud.com/vaultnaemsae

aliensporebomb

Sounds somewhat similar to my VG-99 patches going through my Strymon Big Sky.   Similar to the Big Sky, the Helix does a great job of "cinematizing" those patches.  Nicely played and demonstrated!
My music projects online at http://www.aliensporebomb.com/

GK Devices:  Roland VG-99, Boss GP-10, Boss SY-1000.