Squaver P1- Audio controlled Synthesizer

Started by lumena, June 08, 2017, 10:46:43 AM

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scratch17

New E1 Duo Pack

Contains one Convertor E1 and one MIDVertor E1 for monophonic operation.

I just added this combination to my cart, set up priority shipping to my Texas address and recalculated. VAT was not charged. Total price with shipping was $695.

Considering the feature set of the original Convertor + versus this new combination, for me audio to MIDI alone is worth the extra money. And since the MIDVertor module will let me expand voices and integrate all of the hardware into a single unit, I can still do real time polyphony at a later time.

Sonicsmith is saying that the Duo E1 will ship with firmware version 1.x with lifetime updates to 1.x included.

There's more from Sonicsmith.

QuoteOptional expansions options both in hardware and in software expected to ship around April 2021 like adding up to 7 ConVertor E1's to one MIDVertor E1 for polyphonic options and MIDI merging. Firmware 1.x is included and will get a lifetime of updates within the 1.x series of the firmware. Firmware in the 2.x series can be purchased to upgrade the internal sound engine to include full synth voice features like a sub voice, PWM, 3 LFO's, VCF, and many future enhancements with the same lifetime updates in the 2.x future. Firmware is updatable via SD card or remotely from a centralized MIDVertor E1. MIDVertor's firmware and the "Sonicsmith bus" UART 4-pin communication is open-source to invite the C++ community to customize or make up their own firmware to the MIDVertor hardware. Email info@sonicsmith.com for specifications.

The part about adding an "option" to add polyphony is a bit ominous. I wonder how much that will cost. Having said that, I would be really happy to pay for a full synth voice with polyphonic option if it didn't cost an arm and a leg.

BTW, @GuitarBuilder said:
Quote"Ultimate" is a big word!  Does it have to have synth voices (like Roland/BOSS GK or FTP) to be successful in your eyes?

Apparently, it will have synth voices. But that brings up some more questions.

1. Will each voice be separately editable?

2. Will there be a software editor? If not, @Gumtown, I know you're busy creating your FxFloorBoard editor. Maybe in the future? Your work is awesome.

3. Will presets for voice parameters be available as part of the global presets?

4. Considering that there is some CV I/O on each Convertor module, will it be possible to integrate external synth components with the internal voices?

IOW, will each voice have some modular capability? And is the reverse possible? Can the internal synth voice work as components for another modular synth?

These capabilities would add greatly to the value of each Convertor.

Now I hope one of the synth experts here can interpret two of the technical statements here:

Quote

Internal DCO can work as Audio Controlled Oscillator/VCO+preamp mode.

Switchable to work in VCO mode where the pitch will be controlled from either 1V/oct pitch FM in while preamp stays independent with the ENV extraction.

What are the differences in these modes? The first statement seems to describe a mode for pitch to MIDI and CV. The second seems to be using an external CV source to control pitch of the internal voice and still generate envelope from the guitar string.

Am I interpreting this correctly?

I wish Sonicsmith would publish a manual with at least a preliminary explanation of the feature set, with use case scenarios. It is scary that at this late stage that there is so little information available about the product. And the contradictory statements about expansion is disconcerting too. Until I see more information like this, I am reluctant to jump on a pre-order.
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GuitarBuilder

Quote from: scratch17 on November 30, 2020, 10:01:09 AM
New E1 Duo Pack

Contains one Convertor E1 and one MIDVertor E1 for monophonic operation.

The part about adding an "option" to add polyphony is a bit ominous. I wonder how much that will cost. Having said that, I would be really happy to pay for a full synth voice with polyphonic option if it didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Well, for 6 channels one would need 5 more ConVertor E1 modules at $390 ea.  Perhaps Sonicsmith will offer a set of 5 at a 15% discount?  The full price would be $1,950!

Quote from: scratch17 on November 30, 2020, 10:01:09 AM

Now I hope one of the synth experts here can interpret two of the technical statements here:

What are the differences in these modes? The first statement seems to describe a mode for pitch to MIDI and CV. The second seems to be using an external CV source to control pitch of the internal voice and still generate envelope from the guitar string.

Am I interpreting this correctly?

The ConVertor E1 "DACO" mode is a mono digital audio-controlled oscillator, not pitch to MIDI.  The outputs are digitally synthesized waveforms (sine, square, ramp), at the same frequency or pitch shifted from the incoming audio signal.  CV outputs are 1V/Oct Pitch, Envelope, and Gate.  The MIDVertor module is responsible for MIDI conversion and MIDI note output.

The ConVertor E1 "VCO" mode disconnects the audio preamp from the DACO, making it a VCO only, while the audio preamp continues to generate an EF CV.  Your interpretation is correct!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

scratch17

I inquired about the polyphony issue and  added a few other questions . I quickly received a reply from Noam Lavi, the gentleman who designs products and runs Sonicsmith.

QuoteThank you for your message. it's nice to see the E1 is a conversation topic.
I signed up to the V forum and waiting for approval of the admin to give my reply with my 2 cents there.

I confirm that audio-controlled-synth is heaven to novice guitarists/instrumentalists and since I've been playing on them I feel both less pressure to become the "perfect" player but at the same time renewed motivation to pull off new techniques I never bothered practicing.

Sorry for not being clear on the website.

I will write that the polyphony will not require an upgrade to firm 2.0 unless you want all the extra features of PWM, LFO's, VCF etc.

The unified MIDI output, sustain pedal to all/some units, presets, unified auto-gain, and many more features will be included in Firm 1.x .

I want to include some crude software editor of presets through the USB connection or at least a file renderer that will connect via USB.

Presets will be able to include stuff like wave shape, pitch shifts, FM-in quantizers, compressor/expander ratios, VCA attenuators, FM in attenuverters, slew limiter (attach & release ENV), and probably more settings.

The ConVertor's voices will be separately editable yes. All edits will be able to be saved as a preset as well so the editor software won't be needed right away.

I attach a preliminary User Guide as you can download from the ConVertor E1 product page. I hope it makes sense and sheds light on how you can control all the features in such a small panel size.

I can assure you that the future planned features both for MIDVertor as well as the polyphonic packs will go along the same lines of control.

BTW the quad pack + MIDVertor E1 = 1665 USD/EUR
and the hex-pack + MIDVertor E1     = 2235 USD/EUR


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scratch17

QuoteThe ConVertor E1 "DACO" mode is a mono digital audio-controlled oscillator, not pitch to MIDI.  The outputs are digitally synthesized waveforms (sine, square, ramp), at the same frequency or pitch shifted from the incoming audio signal.  CV outputs are 1V/Oct Pitch, Envelope, and Gate.  The MIDVertor module is responsible for MIDI conversion and MIDI note output.

Of course it's not pitch to MIDI. I wasn't thinking.

So the audio stream from a guitar string is input to the Convertor E1 and pitch is derived from the audio. That makes sense to me. Then that pitch's frequency is used to determine the pitch of a wave (sine, square or ramp) to generate CV. Which can be output from the Convertor. You'd use those signals to drive a modular synth.

If there is 2.x firmware in the Convertor E1, then that pitch, gate and envelope are used to generate the built in synth voice, in the same way that the Squaver P1+ did.

Then, if I am correct, the MIDVertor takes the CV data and converts it to MIDI.

Quote
The ConVertor E1 "VCO" mode disconnects the audio preamp from the DACO, making it a VCO only, while the audio preamp continues to generate an EF CV.  Your interpretation is correct!

Does the preamp's EF CV still go to the MIDVertor to get converted to MIDI?

The user guide that Noam provided has me scratching my head. There's a lot to digest. This is a far more complex and capable product than I expected it to be. Quantization for musical scales? Holy Molly!
Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

scratch17

Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

scratch17

I'm so disappointed in this rollout.

There seems to be no extensive info online. I was expecting at least a good video describing setup with both hardware and software synths. And what about samplers? For me, guitar to MIDI is far more about driving a sample player like Kontakt and its instruments for song writing purposes.

For example, setting pitch bend range seems to be critical with getting good results in a poly guitar synth controller. I understand that each target synth does it differently. But why not cover the Converter E1 side at least?

And there is extensive MIDI capability promised, but not described. And how much does the version 2 software cost? What does it buy you?

The price of a hex system and MidVerter plus tax approaches $3,000. At least the V2 software ought to be fully demoed and described considering it is being used to at least suggest higher value down the road.

I wish Mr. Levi would have made an E1 hardware version without the onboard voice. Would that have saved even $300? More?

I want to see long videos demoing the product with different targets. In the meantime, I got an alert that the modules are now in stock at Perfect Circuit. For now, I will pass.

Hamer Duotone, Brian Moore i213, Taylor 710 BCE 

VG-99, FC-300, RMC Fanout
RJM Mastermind GT10
Kemper Profiling Amp
Radial JDV Mk3, X-Amp
Mesa Recto Pre + 20/20
68 Fender Bandmaster (AB763)
Marshal AS80R

UA Apollo X6, Twin X, Logic Pro, Luna, Melodyne Studio

chrish

Have you contacted Sonicsmith with your concerns? He has always answered my questions honestly and on the same day as my sent email.