Boss Katana Amps - FAQ

Started by Elantric, September 09, 2016, 08:50:43 PM

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Elantric

FWIW - I have played both a Roland Blues Cube Artist (stock - no Tone Capsule) and a Katana Head, and found they both deliver touch response and tone in the same ball park.

Worth reading the latest Boss Blog on the Katana range

http://www.bossus.com/blog/2016/11/03/new-boss-katana-guitar-amps/
New BOSS Katana Guitar Amps
Jim Bybee Product News,

Stage-Ready Tones, Onboard Effects, Incredible Value


The BOSS Katana guitar amplifier lineup.

During "The Future. Redefined." online music festival in September, BOSS introduced the all-new Katana guitar amp lineup. Based on technology developed for the flagship Waza amp head, the affordable Katana amps deliver a wide range of versatile tones with a rock edge. They also include support for 55 different BOSS effects, which can be easily customized from your computer using the free BOSS Tone Studio editor software. While they've only been out in the world for a short time at this point, a quick web search will show the overwhelmingly positive impressions of the Katana's sound and price-to-performance ratio. Read on as we explore the entire lineup and give you the lowdown on these fantastic new amps.


Video: Introducing the Katana Amplifiers



Versatile Amps with Tube Sound, Feel, and Presence

The Katana lineup consists of three combo amplifiers and an amplifier head. The 50-watt Katana-50 and 100-watt Katana-100 come equipped with one custom 12-inch speaker, while the Katana-100/212 has 100 watts of power and two custom 12-inch speakers. The compact 100-watt Katana-Head is designed for use with an external speaker cabinet such as the 4×12 Waza amp cabinet. It also includes a very unique and convenient feature for an amp head—a built-in monitor speaker that works great for practice, checking tones, and even recording.

Like the BOSS Waza amp and the Roland Blues Cube series, the Katana amps utilize the advanced Tube Logic approach to provide the expressive sound and response of tube-based amplifiers. In addition, the output sections of Katana amps employ a special method developed for the Waza amp that optimizes the interaction between the speaker and cabinet. This delivers authoritative punch and cutting stage presence previously attainable only with much more expensive amps.


Left to right: Katana-50, Katana-100, Katana-100/212, Katana-Head.

Five Unique Amp Tones On Board

Each Katana amp features five selectable amp characters: Clean, Crunch, Lead, Brown, and Acoustic. Every character was fine-tuned by the BOSS engineering team to offer rock players a wide range of professional, gig-worthy sounds. A particular standout is the Brown character, which produces refined high-gain tones derived from the Waza amp head. The Acoustic character takes the Katana's versatility even further, providing natural tone for acoustic-electric guitars and electric guitars equipped with piezo bridge saddles. That's right—no need to take a second amp to the gig for playing acoustic tunes!

The amps are equipped with familiar gain, bass, mid, and treble controls, making it easy to dial in tones quickly. All models except the Katana-50 also include a presence control.


Amplifier and Equalizer sections on the Katana amp panel.

Choose from 55 BOSS Effects

In addition to fantastic amp tones, the Katana series provides integrated access to 55 BOSS effects. You can load 15 different effects in an amp at one time, and use up to three at once. And with the intuitive interface, you're able to select effects variations and adjust effects amount quickly and easily.

For full customization, you'll want to tap into the free BOSS Tone Studio editor. With this software, nearly every BOSS effect type is available to you—overdrives, distortions, delays, choruses, reverbs, and more. Even unique effects like Slicer, Slow Gear, Wave Synth, Ring Mod, and others are on hand! From your Mac or Windows computer, you can choose which effects you want to load into the Katana, and edit parameters on each to fully personalize your tones.


The effects on a Katana amp are very easy to select and adjust. Pressing the buttons toggles between three different effects assignments for each knob.

To check out a full list of the available effects and their parameters—and to explore all the other things you can do with a Katana amp and BOSS Tone Studio—check out the "Using BOSS Tone Studio for Katana" PDF document.

Recall Tones at the Touch of a Button

The Katana amps feature Tone Setting memories that allow you to save custom sounds for instant recall while performing. Everything except master control settings are saved: amp type, gain, volume, EQ, and effects. The Katana-100, Katana-100/212, and Katana-Head have four Tone Setting memories, while the Katana-50 includes two. Each amp also has a Panel setting; pressing this button will cause the amp to reflect the current settings of all knobs on the panel.

To save Tone Settings, just adjust the panel knobs the way you like, and then press and hold the desired Tone Setting button for one second.


Master control sections of the Katana-100, Katana-100/212, and Katana-Head (left) and Katana-50 (right).

Power Control: Cranked Amp Tones at Any Volume

Katana amps authentically recreate the complex output distortion characteristics of genuine tube amplifiers—as you turn up the volume, the sound gets richer and the feel becomes more dynamically responsive. With the Power Control function, you're able to throttle back the overall volume volume while still retaining this inspiring cranked-amp sound. Settings include max output, half power, and a home-friendly option of 0.5 watts. The Power Control also includes a Standby setting that conveniently mutes the output for switching guitars and taking breaks.

External Sound Control

All Katana amps offer the ability to connect an external footswitch or expression pedal. This allows you to switch between Tone Settings 1 and 2, or to control the volume with your foot. The Katana-100, Katana-100/212, and Katana-Head also support the GA-FC Foot Controller. This provides foot access for Tone Settings 1-4, the Panel setting, switching effects groups on/off, tap tempo for delay effects, and effects loop on/off. Up to two expression pedals can be connected to the GA-FC as well. The Katana-Head is also equipped with a MIDI input for control in more advanced setups.


Katana-100/212 rear panel.

BOSS Tone Studio for Katana Amps


BOSS Tone Studio lets you adjust, store, and recall numerous Katana parameters from your Mac or Windows computer via USB.

As we touched on earlier, using the BOSS Tone Studio editor software takes your Katana amp experience much further. In addition to effects selection and parameter adjustment, it's possible to adjust the order of the Booster/Mod and Delay/FX groups to place them before or after the Katana's preamp section. The editor lets you dial in amp tones from the computer as well.

After making adjustments, you can then save them to a Tone Setting memory in the amp. It's also possible to save your custom Tone Settings as Livesets. This is great for backup, and also for organizing sounds for different gigs.

The BOSS Tone Studio editor for Katana is available for free at BOSS Tone Central. There, you'll also find a growing collection of Katana patch collections created by pro players.

To learn more about the Katana amp series, visit BossUS.com.

admin

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/22955205/

guitarman3001 said: ↑
Interesting. On that video he says that the Tube Logic that's used in the Blues Cube amps is COSM based. But I've also heard and read that Roland claims the Blues Cube amps are absolutely not using any kind of COSM.

Now I'm curious to know which one is the real truth.
Click to expand...
Hello, My name is Jeff Slingluff and I'm the Product Manager for BOSS and Roland Guitar Product in the U.S. I hope you don't mind me chiming in. The WAZA Head, Blues Cube's, and Katana amps are all based on the Tube-Logic research not COSM. The main difference is extensive research into providing a virtual vintage transform/power amp clipping and sag experience. Katana is intended to be a performance level amplifier that both feels dynamic and can easily be heard over a drummer. The Power Control feature does make it home friend volume as well.

Hope that helps.

Jeff S.

admin

#27
read Jeff Slingluffs explanation
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/25745068/


Jeff S wrote>
Hi, I'm Jeff the product manager for BOSS Guitar product in the United States. I hope you don't mind me joining in to answer your question.

The 1x12 and 2x12 Katana's use exactly the same electronics with the only difference being the cab size and the use of two speakers. The 1x12 uses an 8ohm speaker and the 2x12 uses two 16ohm speakers. But they are the same design and voicing.

As far as sound, yes the 2x12 has a bigger bolder push and the comes off as having more bass. Also speaker combination comb filtering things that happen in the air that make some players prefer a 2x12 or 4x12 over a 1x12 experience. If you traditionally like speaker configuration over the other you might want to consider that with your buy decision.

Both the 1x12 and the 2x12 have a bit more bass response than the 50 watt. If you get the Kantana my suggestion for you is to start with the Channel Volume and Master Volume at max and use the Power Control feature to lower it down to digest-able home volume. This way the virtual vintage transformer, power tubes, phase inverter and such all gets pushed like typically happens in all those classic non-master volume amps we love. Always remember in non-master volume tube amps, or even virtual ones, the last tubes in the chain clips first. So my suggestion is start of running it like a non-master volume amp to get that Tele of yours pushing power amp character. Get all that transformer tone and feel and use the Power Control Knob to turn it down to fun level. I'm sure you'll find your own settings this just sounds like a fun place to start for you and your Tele.

I hope that helps.

Jeff Slingluff
BOSS and Roland Guitar Products Manager


QuoteHawgfan27 said: ↑
Really appreciate you swinging by to answer questions. On demo's I've seen people use both the volume and the master to control overall volume. Do you recommend using the volume to affect "power amp distortion" and fine tuning with the master volume?


Jeff Slingluff wrote>
Yes, absolutely. The thing that is unique about WAZA, Blues Cube, and Katana is that they are designed to capture all the power amp stuff we love about classic amps. There is a ton of effort going on inside Katana to reproduce the tone and experience of vintage transformers, capacitors, phase inverters, and even the dynamic interaction that occurs between the speaker and amplifier like it would in a typical tube amp.

BOSS intention is to give you an amp that has power amp sound and feel but with level control. I tend to tell people to start off with it on ten and work your way backward. Imagine if you were to put a Katana 100 head in an A/B switcher with an actual vintage Plexi. The plexi has no master volume and in tube amps the last stage clips first. I set the Channel and Master on Max to get that same thunderous dynamic power amp thing I love then back down (or not) the volume via the power control.

If you have a tube amp you love try doing the same thing for fun. As guitar players we love classic tones like Eddie, Jimi, and Page and not one of them had a master volume on there amp. You can run the WAZA, Blues Cube, or Katana pushing the power amp but they all have the power control feature to maintain the tone but at a lower wattage.

Quotevvc41 said:
Love this thread.

I am thinking of getting the head -- how is the quality of the sound coming from the internal speaker? Yeah I know it is small but would enjoy hearing any firsthand reports. Thanks.
Vic


Personally I am so in love with the Katana head. I'm kind of 4x12 crazy and the head just makes me smile when plugged into a big cab. Tone, Volume, Feel, fun for days. But not only am in love with the external cab experience but also the internal speaker. I was going through a big Brian May phase a few months back and many of the Queen solo's we love, and especially the harmonies, were all done with a tiny little practice amp the bass player built for Brian. Instantly when I heard the internal speaker I wanted to hit the studio and put a mic on it. Its a cool usable tone and is super fun. And comically it works great in the studio. Who would have thought.

BTW I'm in Japan for two months. I've been here three weeks and my small Japanese apartment can't handle the volume of anything very large so I grabbed one of the Katana heads from the BOSS engineering lab as an amp to have around when I'm off the clock. Its a totally fun creditable experience. It's basically a really good tone minus some bass response. Usually small cheep guitar amp speakers just have that ripping raspy bright and bad sound. This sounds much more like guitar speaker than something pulled out of a cheep stereo. IMO

Hope that helps.

Jeff S.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/22956545/
QuoteHey Jeff, What is the major Tube Logic difference between the Katana and Blues Cubes?

The Tube-Logic portion of both amps is basically the same. But there are some differences worth noting. The first is simply sonic choice of the amp set. For example: A Blues Cube Artist starts with a sound set based on more of an American 6L6 design. The Katana leans more towards EL34's. The next major difference is in the hardware. The Blues Cube series is a discrete class A/B design and the Katana is an IC class A/B design. The physical power amps for both are class A/B and both dynamically interact with the live speaker as do tube amps.

Tube-Logic is about capturing the experience and sound of vintage transformers, power tubes, phases inverters and that whole dynamic power amp thing tube amps do.

Jeff S.


===

You bring up something I've seen mentioned in other post. What is the difference between the 50 Watt Katana vs the 100 Watt Katana in 50 Watt mode? Several have mentioned headroom. They are correct but there is more to the story. The Power Control is done in the digital portion of the amp. Someone called it a power soak which was probably just for description but for clarity I wanted to explain the difference between that and the BOSS Power Control.

Power soaks by nature isolate the speaker from the power amp. This removes tonal, dynamic, and distortion characteristics that typically happen between the speaker and power amp. Tube amps by nature respond to the dynamic impedance of the physical speaker. That impedance constantly changes based on the cone tension which is of course affected by the previous note and other constantly changing dynamic factors.

Katana, Blues Cube, and WAZA all do the same dynamic interaction with the physical speaker. BOSS left the dynamic element alone and did the Power Control internally. Turning down the Power Control maintains the emulated Transformer, Power Tubes, Phase Inverters and all the correct dynamic interaction with all the earlier virtual tube stages.

By doing it in digital it doesn't dramatically alter the power amp tone and dynamics like a traditional power soak will on a tube amp. Nor does it affect power amp clipping like turning down the master volume does on a tube amp. BOSS's goal was Non-Master Volume tone and feel but at any volume.

Of course if you have the money and can handle the volume I'm totally down for tube amp shopping any time :). Of course I'd steer you towards my favorites. I desperately want a 1972 Park 75 head. GAS is so bad my girlfriend painted a life size Park Full Stack on the kitchen wall. I also want a 1965 JTM-45 so she drew that life size in the hallway.

Katana 100 Watt models do have a little extra headroom when in 50-watt mode. One other notable difference is the speaker on the 100 Watt combo's needed to be able to handle 100 watts. If you take a look at them they do have a slightly large magnet than the 50-watt model.

Hope that helps clear things up.

Jeff S.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/23025169/
Yes there is a slight tone difference between the two Katana speakers but the cone and basic design is identical. The cones come from the Blues Cube series and was originally created after extensive research into some classic vintage Celestion models. It was BOSS trying to understand differences in older speakers and aging characteristics. For Katana and Blues Cube the speakers you could sort of say they are voice in the vain of a late 1970's G12T75. And for WAZA Cab late 60's Greenback but a lot more power handling. Need it for that 150 Watt head :)

Jeff S.



http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?members/jeff-slingluff.183101/

Elantric

#28
Katana Owners Manual
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/KATANA_e02_W.pdf



Katana Firmware 1.02
https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/katana-50/updates_drivers/eaa1f675-cdcc-49f3-ae33-1d8d9466bf91/


Boss Katana USB Driver for Windows
https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/katana-100/updates_drivers/d85d05e0-6363-46a4-bb36-b6eb5ab75270/

Boss Katana USB Driver for OSX/macOS
https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/katana-50/updates_drivers/f2184ae5-e01e-4469-99dd-1bbd580e6372/


Boss Tone Studio for Katana (Windows)
https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/katana-50/updates_drivers/06d65e42-907a-4433-a9a8-cb1b8673bc57/

Boss Tone Studio for Katana (OSX/macOS)
https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/katana-50/updates_drivers/15335f43-1fa1-40fa-9108-cf0e3f64bdd1/


Boss Tone Studio for Katana Owners Manual
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/BTS_KATANA_e01_W.pdf



For the Katana Amp owners completely new to using a PC/Mac to edit your FX - here are some tutorials


Work slowly - in this sequence
https://www.boss.info/us/products/katana-100/downloads/


1) Update the Katana Amp firmware


2 ) Install the Katana USB Driver for your operating system ( Win /OSX)


After you download the USB driver, Be sure to double click it to expand all files and locate the "README.HTM" file and click on it and your browser will open with Katana Driver Instructions
with all the detailed USB Driver installation procedure


3 ) * Install the Boss Tone Studio for Katana - this requires Adobe AIR and fast internet connection.
Hint - you need a live internet connection during the BTS install - I have better success by installing Adobe AIR first - get it here
https://get.adobe.com/air/
Read the Boss Tone Studio for Katana Owners Manual PDF
https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/BTS_KATANA_e01_W.pdf






More details if you get into trouble during the Boss Tone Studio install here:
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19401.msg138923#msg138923



Tutorials for Boss Tone Studio are scarce
[MEDIA=youtube]-S_dBTK9Boo[/MEDIA]
But here is one for Boss ME-80 in Portuguese

[MEDIA=youtube]pGr1oQp9wDE[/MEDIA]
on Youtube you can enable English "CC" Closed captions = and follow the procedure for using Boss Tone Studio - its the common app for all the recent Boss Gear and this is how you manage your Katana FX / Channel settings

[MEDIA=youtube]Hgxm57_SUIE[/MEDIA]


One "mod" I'll make to my Katana 100-112 Combo



Elantric

#29
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/22967660/

https://soundcloud.com/amund-blix/katana-line-out
QuoteHere's a few seconds recording straight from the Line out jack, first the Brown channel and you'll hear when I switch to Lead.

Good example demo of the Katana Line Out!

and Good example of the ultra fast  / zero audio drop out Channel switching on Katana amps!

mchad


If you ran 2 Katana 100 1x12's (for stereo fun) could you run 1 GA-FC Footswitch and an AB box to split the GA-FC 2 ways?

admin

No
The GA-FC uses a proprietary TRS interface and communicates with only one Katana Amp

Elantric

#32
KATANA AMP FIRMWARE UPDATE

https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/katana-100/updates_drivers/eaa1f675-cdcc-49f3-ae33-1d8d9466bf91/




QuoteKatana Firmware update on Mac

1 ) Basically with no Katana USB connection to your mac, and Katana Amp powered OFF, first
Obtain the Katana Firmware version 1.02 that you download here:
https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/katana-100/updates_drivers/eaa1f675-cdcc-49f3-ae33-1d8d9466bf91/

2 ) Navigate to your Mac's Download directory over on the lower right, and double click the Katana Firmware Download, and this opens up in a new "katana_sys_v102" folder with two important firmware update files

3 ) Now go to the Katana, and holding down both the [ CH1 ] and [ PANEL ] Tone Setting buttons, and turn on the AC Mains Power
(The LED indicators for the [CH1] ~ [CH4] buttons all flash.
Hint: This puts the Katana Amps into a USB Class compliant Storage device mode - to accept Katana firmware update files, and act like a "USB storage Drive" to your PC/Mac.

4 ) now with a USB 2.0 cable (USB printer cable works) connect the Katana Amp to your Mac USB port.
After a few seconds you should see a new Drive appear on the Mac OSX desktop.

5 ) Now locate the "katana_sys_v102" folder from step # 2 , and double click on it and drag the 2 important Katana Firmware update files contained there (from step # 2) onto the "Katana Drive" icon (from step # 4)
It takes about 10 seconds to transfer both firmware update files
** Drag only the 2 files, NOT the whole "katana_sys_v102" folder !

6 ) Now just like a USB drive, to avoid data corruption, unmount by dragging the "BOSS_KATANA" icon to the Mac Trash icon in the Dock lower right.

7 ) Now you can remove the USB cable, and the Katana's [PANEL] LED button flashes.

8 ) Press the [ PANEL ] LED button to start the Katana Firmware update process. Now Wait, while the update is in progress the "EFFECTS" indicators light up sequentially one by one to indicate the firmware update is in progress - when complete ( - takes about 30 seconds ) all EFFECTs LEDS begin to Pulse in unison

9 ) Turn the KATANA power off.
This completes the update operation. The new system program runs at the next startup.

Elantric

typically nobody can locate (or reads) the Roland / Boss USB Driver installation instructions, which details all the settings

(hint: Click on the bundled "README.HTM" file bundled inside the USB driver file

Boss Katana USB Driver for Windows
https://www.boss.info/global/support/by_product/katana-100/updates_drivers/d85d05e0-6363-46a4-bb36-b6eb5ab75270/


Elantric

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/23008955/

QuoteOk, I've cracked how to get the wahs to sound good.

I had to change the effect chain order. In Boss Tone Studio you have 3 options for effects order; the default is 2, where the delay/fx is after the amp. I put the wah in fx, and after the amp it sounded bad. Not a surprise in hindsight. By selecting option 3, only the reverb is post amp; then the wah sounds great.

dayn

I played the 100 1x12, 50 1x12, and 100 head - can't decide which one to get!!

I am wondering, would it be possible to add an effects loop to the 50 1x12 fairly easily?

Also, if I can get my hands on the same 5" speaker from the head, i have thoughts of maybe putting that into the 50 1x12 combo on the side with a switch to select the smaller speaker if I wanted. Any idea where I might source that stock 5" speaker.

Elantric

QuoteI am wondering, would it be possible to add an effects loop to the 50 1x12 fairly easily?


Not an easy task to add the FX loop. its a DSP Amp

remember the FX Loop in Katana 100 is user configurable for Series / parallel operation and can be remote controlled with the GA-FC Foot switch or MIDI 

My favorite is the Katana 100-112 Combo

GuitarBuilder

And I'm sold on the 100W Head.  I did consider the combo at first, but I like experimenting with different cabs.  So far I've tried a Marshall 1965A 4x10 G10L-35s, Marshall 1960A 4x12 G12T-75s (BIG sound!), Marshall 2061CX 2x12 Vintage 30s, and Avatar 2x12 G12H20, G12M20.  Wow - they all sound great.  The 1960A allows me to dime the head and it delivers!  We're talking serious sound volume here!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973

Elantric

Just be sure to observe the 8 ohm minimum speaker load

Elantric

#39
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?posts/23029308/
QuoteAll of the amps I have, and the only kind of amp I really want, at least that's usable for gigging, are simple two channel amps that I can literally take out of the box, take to a gig, and spend 15 minutes during setup dialing in my clean and dirt tones. I may end up tweaking some things here and there later on, but I could literally buy them and go straight to a gig without feeling lost.

Straight out of the box - you can gig  - the controls are very intuitive, similar to a ROLAND CUBE, but the sound is much better!

QuoteAlso, without the GA-FC foot controller, would I be able to hook up a simple one button Footswitch just to be able to switch between two channels?

Yes - just use a Roland FS-5L ( latching footswitch with a mono 1/4" plug)

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/KATANA_e02_W.pdf





Alternative Footswitch that works for ALL Katana Amp 2 channel switch selection  - Hosa Technology FCS-384 - Single Latch Footswitch  $18

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=408048&gclid=CjwKEAiA9s_BBRCL3ZKWsfblgS8SJACbST7DxIhEKAoN1Fq0oGuwON6f3BK8WROuCrWKavjUbvdXjhoCj1jw_wcB&Q=&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876,91438732682,&is=REG&A=details



or with cable $19.99
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/livewire-lws21-universal-latching-footswitch

ma9ick

So, it seems that Katana amps do not support class-compliant audio interface operation. Can someone confirm or deny that?

For instance, I would like to connect an Android device (phone / tablet) over USB and run a multi-track recorder (e.g. Audio Evolution Mobile Studio) - jam along a backing track while recording my performance. Would that be possible with Katana, or I would need to use rec-out/line-out with my audio interface for direct recording?

Elantric

#41
QuoteSo, it seems that Katana amps do not support class-compliant audio interface operation. Can someone confirm or deny that?

Confirmed Katana Amp is NOT USB Class Compliant - same as most Boss Gear  (GT-1, SY-300, GP-10, GR-55)

QuoteFor instance, I would like to connect an Android device (phone / tablet) over USB and run a multi-track recorder (e.g. Audio Evolution Mobile Studio) - jam along a backing track while recording my performance. Would that be possible with Katana,

NOT POSSIBLE for audio

But Tested Codesmarts PrimovaSound MIDX-20 does provide 5 pin MIDI IN for all Katana's

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=17561.msg140190#msg140190

Elantric

Click for list of Audio interfaces that will work with Android Audio Evolution DAW

http://www.extreamsd.com/index.php/2015-07-22-12-01-14/usb-audio-driver

pasha811

Sorry to ask but at this point I am nothing less than confused.
Yesterday I went to the local store just to find out that the 100W was gone 10 minutes earlier, the head will eventually arrive in a week or so and only the Katana 50 was left. It was too late to ask for a try but at list I eyed dimensions and test weight. A good package with home friendly dimensions. Then the store people talked with me about other brands such has Blackstar ID Core and Fender Mustangs. Then the confusion in my head began as they used the word 'Modeling Amp'. ???
As an owner of an old Fender 85 that needs restoring, I didn't update myself on the latest technology. It's just like I am in a 'back to the future' scenario. Everybody talking about Tube Amps, Solid State Amps, Modeling Amps. Tube amps were current when I bought my 85 and 85 it's a 'LookMa NoTubes' solid state amp, made with transistors. Then came the Modeling amps, that I missed completely.
Although I think I am accustomed with COSM Amp modeling (VG99,GT-1) I cannot grab the concept of 'Modeling Amp' completely.
I imagine that 'Modeling' means creating the sound of the original amps via Integrated Circuits and firmware in the Preamp (like VG99), then pushing those to an amp and a speaker, so a A/D converter and a D/A converter must be included. That's why one can bypass the Preamp and via Aux-in plug the VG99, in that case the D/A analog output from VG99 it's not converted anymore, just passed to the AMP stage.
I guess my Fender 85 despite the absence of tubes has an analog signal path while the modeling amps has to become digital at some point, right?
However I think you can tune the electronics to a point that you can have different characters while using an analog path. Is this the case with the Katana or Katanas are Modeling Amps as well?

Thank you so much!
Sorry for the noob question.
Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Elantric

#44
To add confusion some folks use the term "Profiling Amp" when NOT talking about kemper amps

It breaks down to this question:

"Is there s DSP IC and for what portion of the amp's tone circuit is the DSP employed?"

Popular DSP Modeling amps where the DSP is employed as a crucial part of the amps tone:

1997 Line 6 AxSys
http://line6.com/legacy/axsys
http://l6c-acdn2.line6.net/data/6/0a060b316ac34f0593419130f/application/pdf/AxSys%20212%20User%20Manual%20(%20Rev%20A%20).pdf

1999 Line 6 Flextone
http://line6.com/legacy/flextone

2003 Line 6 Vetta
http://line6.com/legacy/vetta

2006 Peavey Vypyr

2004 Fender G-DEC

2010 Fender Mustang

Vox VX Series

BlackStar IDCore amps

1999 Roland VGA3, VGA5, VGA7 (COSM)

2004 Roland Cube 60  (COSM)
2006 Roland MicroCube (COSM)
2010 Roland Cube 80XL (COSM)
2012 Roland Cube80GX (COSM)
2016 Boss Katana (Tube Logic)



The Amp can be a hybrid amp, with DSP based preamp and Tube Poweramp

Fender SuperChamp XD/X2
Peavey Vypyr Tube 60
Fender Cyber Deluxe

The new Roland / Boss US Guitar product Manager (Jeff Slingluff) explained the differences between the amps in Roland / Boss's 2016 "Tube Logic" line 
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19048.msg139626#msg139626

Boss Waza - Tube Logic (with discreet components) 
Roland Blues Cube  - Tube Logic (with discreet components) 
Boss Katana - Tube Logic (with DSP) 

pasha811

Thanks Elantric!

I pushed my understanding.. let me see if I understood.
I have also found this:https://www.roland.com/global/promos/tube_logic/
as a nice complement.
I like this:

Boss Waza - Tube Logic (with discreet components)
Roland Blues Cube  - Tube Logic (with discreet components)
Boss Katana - Tube Logic (with DSP) 

Katana implements DSP to control the relationship between the cone and the amp but the Guitar signal is routed through Tube-Logic which should not alter the signal, right? I think it cannot compare to ID Core and Mustangs (especially after your ID CORE Shutdown problem and some not so friendly comments on Mustangs on the VG forum). Katanas should be superior.
The Fender 85 it's based on discrete components. The WAZA and Blues Cube do not use DSP in any stage.
I would not call Katana a 'Modeling Amp' by knowing now, or having a sensation, of what Tube-Logic could be.
In theory my Fender 85 once restored should play even better than a Katana but shouldn't be very happy paired with a VG99.
That's why maybe a Katana can be the answer.

Tell me what you think,
Thanks
Pasha





Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Elantric

#46
QuoteIn theory my Fender 85 once restored should play even better than a Katana

It won't ;)

I know the Fender 85 Amp well - its just a solid-state Fender from the late 1980's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Amplifiers
QuoteRed Knob[edit]
The Red Knob amplifiers were produced from 1987 until 1993. These were some of the first models produced by the newly formed Fender Musical Instrument Corporation. These amplifiers, named for their bright red control knobs, have a slightly similar appearance to the older Blackface cosmetics, having black control panels with white lettering and the late 1970s "scripted tailless" Fender logo. Many of these models were simply refitted with black knobs and early 1970s "unscripted tailless" Fender logos in 1996 when most Fender amplifier manufacturing moved to the Ensenada factory in Mexico. This series of amplifiers all used printed circuit board construction and can be difficult for amateur amp techs to service. The Red Knob amps, with their high-gain channels, had their own sound, not much like the older classic Blackface and Silverface designs.

Regarding the Solid State amps of this 'Red Knob' era, there were two that utilized the same circuit board and wattage, the Fender Eighty-Five and the Studio 10. [Note: The schematics you will find on the 'Eighty-Five' amp will be labeled 'Studio 85' which can be confusing to those trying to find an accurate schematic. This mislabeling we can assume happened because the amp was intended in the design phase to be released as the Studio 85, but for some reason this changed when it went into production. Paul Wentling is credited as the designer. He (Paul) has stated, years after the fact, that he created some fairly bad sounding tube amps during this time frame, owing to the cost limits given him by Fender management at the time.] The SS Eighty-Five and the Studio 10 are the same 65 (RMS) watt amp except for the use of a 12" speaker in one, and a 10" in the other. The 12" version, the Fender Eighty-Five, was notably used by Steve Miller (Steve Miller Band) and Jonny Greenwood (Radiohead) over the years on many recordings. They were made in Lake Oswego, Oregon at the old Sunn factory, a brand/company that Fender had purchased in 1985–86.


By contrast the Boss Katana Amp is among the best  Amps Ive played through ( I now own both  Katana Head and Katana 100-112 Combo) - and thats a LOT of amps at all price points and design strategy ( Tubes, Transistor, DSP)

Why?

The Katana's Touch response and high dynamic range, I can play things on Katana that are impossible to achieve on many other modern amps, and nothing else in the Katana Price range comes close

And I prefer Katana vs Waza or Blues Cube because for my live gig needs, I want an all in one grab & go amp with built in FX, delays with tap tempo, chorus, tremolo, reverb, FX Loop. the GA-FC footswitch + 2 EV-5 expressions pedals provides enough control for my live gig needs. 

Read the Katana Amp reviews
  http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/boss-katana-amplifiers.1744135/page-70#post-23051059

Also  - I'm NOT using Katana for my other DSP modelers systems  - just playing pure Katana

But Katana does work well with external stomp boxes and Roland/ Boss Processors.

But its NOT a full range  / flat response amp - its for guitar tones , not synth  / orchestral PCM tones 

But its not important to follow what I do, or play through currently, as that is a moving target.

But for grab & go sit in with a band or quick jam, Katana 100-112 +GA-FC+two EV-5 pedals sounds better and has better tone and I vastly prefer Katana over Marshall Code 50, Mustang III V2, Fender Super Champ XD, Quilter MicroPro Mach2, Vox VXII, Blackstar ID Core 40, Peavey Vypyr Pro, Firehawk 1500 

pasha811

Super Elantric, thank you.

In that case I see a Katana (mostly 50 than head.. Tinnitus and home space..) to be used as clean guitar / practice and VG99 'amp speaker'  via Aux In in the future..

Have a great Sunday you deserve it! And thank you again for your patience!
:)

Listen to my music at :  http://alonetone.com/pasha/

Elantric

#48
I do advise skip the Katana 50, its a loss leader - its missing important features that only exit in the 100 watt models
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19048.msg139386#msg139386

Read Katana FAQ from the 1st page.
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19048.0

GuitarBuilder

Quote from: Elantric on November 27, 2016, 05:36:13 AM
I do advise skip the Katana 50, its a loss leader - its missing important features that only exit in the 100 watt models
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=19048.msg139386#msg139386

Read Katana FAQ from the 1st page.

+1!
"There's no-one left alive, it must be a draw"  Peter Gabriel 1973